Politics, God and Religion vs. Science

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bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Dec 2, 2013 - 04:38pm PT
Explain, Dingus. You may disagree with faith or Buddha, but there is an underlying fabric that unites us, right? A humanity.

And if you concur with that, where does that humanity well-up from?
Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
U.N. Ambassador, Crackistan
Dec 2, 2013 - 04:41pm PT
Humanity is not united. You yourself preach division on a very frequent basis.

DMT
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Dec 2, 2013 - 04:53pm PT
Humanity is not united. You yourself preach division on a very frequent basis.

Careful, my friend, what you're getting into. You have misinterpreted my thoughts. The teachings of Buddha and Jesus taught us a united sentiment.

What I have intolerance for, is denying that. They had a clear message. Mincing their words is uncool.

And yeah, I ain't perfect, but I try to be somewhat cool to everybody.

Humanity will always be divided, it's the nature of our 'beast'. Recognizing which side is right is the key, and also the eternal conundrum.

Alas, here we are again....fighting. Good vs. Evil, right vs. wrong, Dems, Repubs.

Most people know the truth, and feel it. It's weird, but it ain't no right/left thing. It's just the truth.
WBraun

climber
Dec 2, 2013 - 04:58pm PT
bluering has it right .....
Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
U.N. Ambassador, Crackistan
Dec 2, 2013 - 05:03pm PT
I see no unity exhibited regarding Christians and Buddhists. I see no unity in the world of religion, no common ground no common voice. He'll Christians themselves can't find unity don't need to blame the Buddhists.

DMT
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Dec 2, 2013 - 05:12pm PT
I see no unity exhibited regarding Christians and Buddhists. I see no unity in the world of religion, no common ground no common voice. He'll Christians themselves can't find unity don't need to blame the Buddhists.

DMT

You don't want to 'see'. You just want to condemn. You were obviously wronged at some point, and that's cool.

Christians, Buddhists, Hindus, and most Muslims find a common peace in religion. We're supposed to join together in peace and harmony (sorry, I just hate that phrase). But it's true.

Why do you think Christians help Islamists in Africa? Or Hindus in Bangladesh? Or Buddhists in China? Or Burma? It's not that they want to 'brainwash' people into Christianity. They f*#king want to help people!

But some do proselytize too much, and I don't dig that.
Largo

Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
Dec 2, 2013 - 05:15pm PT
Whatever they say will be no use to you . Find out for your self.


That's one challenge with some folks on this thread, who apparently lack the ambition to "find out for themselves," and instead insist if not demand on their right to get something for nothing - a full rendering of esoteric dimensions sans any time practicing, something as impossible as being able to understand astro physics by way of a few internet posts that are posited in language they deem "suitable."

Imagine going off on a mathematician for using symbols (equations) that are obscure to a layman. The language used in esoteric circles, like no-mind and emptiness, are not vague at all, providing one has the experiences that correspond to the terms. Without those experiences, it truly is "Greek to me."

Approaching the business from the standpoint of simple, technical terms (focus, attention, etc.) is also possible, but there seems no interest in that path either.

Here, folks only want to talk about the route, so to speak. And talk about it from the ground, insisting of all things that we are unsure of the nature of our own experiences, requiring a clear-headed quantifier to sort us out. Note, however, that with that camp, the conversation rarely gets past objective functioning.

We can easily see why . . .

JL
PSP also PP

Trad climber
Berkeley
Dec 2, 2013 - 05:15pm PT
Big egos = no unity and small egos = more unity, this was what I was talking about using meditation to find you correct relationship and correct function.

What alot of people really don't like is that to get unity (peace) you have to hold your opinions very lightly.
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Dec 2, 2013 - 05:30pm PT
Here, folks only want to talk about the route, so to speak. And talk about it from the ground, insisting of all things that we are unsure of the nature of our own experiences

Dude, I will discuss anything. I just dislike people who refuse the obvious, or facts. I cannot tolerate that. Why would I?

Howz Venezuela?
Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
U.N. Ambassador, Crackistan
Dec 2, 2013 - 05:36pm PT
I don't condemn any religion. I have seen you make very broad negative statements about Islam though. In terms of seeing, you're right I don't see the one thing that could unify them all.

DMT
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Dec 2, 2013 - 05:50pm PT
I don't condemn any religion. I have seen you make very broad negative statements about Islam though. In terms of seeing, you're right I don't see the one thing that could unify them all.

DMT


You don't openly condemn religion, but your rhetoric implies it.

Yeah, unlike you, I will openly say what I feel to be true. And that is that Islamism TENDS to be very bad and damaging. If you fail to recognize this you are prolly deluded or walking with blinders on.

What's funny about you is that you claim to be so moderate and tolerant, but you fail to make clear stands on anything! You literally have no opinion, and as a result, you should STFU!
Dr. F.

Trad climber
SoCal
Topic Author's Reply - Dec 2, 2013 - 05:52pm PT
Rather than try and second guess what is going on in the experiential realm, people could simply find out for themselves - but for the lack of wherewithal, ambition or curiosity to conduct empirical/experiential tests. Unless I know otherwise I'd swear this crowd was downright lazy.

JL

Some of us have done the work and experienced these things, they just report back a different story than you, and don't see how these things really change anything.

we also reported back that it was a wild goose chase, the one that you are still on, and still promoting for us to get on.

How does seeing reality different change the reality that science measures?
It doesn't, it just a state of mind that has No importance in the bigger picture.
Should a mad man's description of reality be taken seriously? It's different, that seems to be your only criteria.

It's more like taking a carnival ride, it's an experience, a flash of firing neurons. They come and go, and all you have in the end was your warm fuzzy feeling.
MikeL

climber
SANTA CLARA, CA
Dec 2, 2013 - 06:44pm PT
MH2: Myths are seductive and powerful. Julian Baggini might call them narratives or stories.

I have to ask: Who doesn't like a good story? Read books? Watch movies? Listen to your friends provide trip reports here on ST? Like listening to the news? Talk a bit to your fellow workers over coffee or at the water cooler? All are stories, and many people believe they are all true.

Myths are initially archetypal, drawn from the unconscious and inexplicit. Next they become degraded into explicit myths (e.g, as most talk about religion here), and then they turn into epics, dramas, and finally melodramas. But they all have beginnings, middles, and ends. They are all stories. As MH2 says, even theories are stories. There's nothing wrong with it, and there's nothing right about it. It's part of how we express ourselves and relate to our worlds.

Think how much of our lives would be missing without any kind of story. It's almost unimaginable. People would be providing facts and analyses to one another without any beginnings, middles, or ends--just facts, just analyses, just emotional exclamations, and instinctual responses. Monty Python could have made a terrific skit of that kind of scenario. (I'm tempted to, here.) I'd bet all of us could count at least 20 stories being seen or related to us daily. Probably more.

Complaining about inaccuracies or lack of realism of myth would be like complaining about the passions / emotions in our lives. Without them, living would not be very human.


Dr. F.: . . . it just a state of mind that has No importance in the bigger picture.

HA!

An interesting comment if there ever was one. Pray tell, Doctor: what IS "the bigger picture?"

BTW, some of us look for it in the ways that come to us. Just because we may not find it or cannot show it to you doesn't mean it's not useful to look. (Hell, at least we're looking.)
Largo

Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
Dec 2, 2013 - 07:04pm PT
How does seeing reality different change the reality that science measures?
--


Science only measures reality that is discursively conjured. Do you understand how this happens, by way of narrow focusing on a discrete thing, at the exclusion of the whole? You might be just the person to make all of this very plain and knowable from a fist-step point of view. Imagine that, Craig. But if you can follow a few VERY BASIC things per preception, no magic or juju involved, the opening moves might be open to you and others. But you do have to do a few minutes worth of self observation a few times to get clear on the basics. That will, in time, answer the question that you just asked:

How does seeing reality different change the reality that science measures?

The question now is, do you really and truly want to discover an answer to that question?

JL
Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
U.N. Ambassador, Crackistan
Dec 2, 2013 - 07:08pm PT
You don't want to 'see'. You just want to condemn. You were obviously wronged at some point, and that's cool.

Christians, Buddhists, Hindus, and most Muslims find a common peace in religion. We're supposed to join together in peace and harmony (sorry, I just hate that phrase). But it's true.

You don't openly condemn religion, but your rhetoric implies it.

Yeah, unlike you, I will openly say what I feel to be true. And that is that Islamism TENDS to be very bad and damaging. If you fail to recognize this you are prolly deluded or walking with blinders on.

Unity for the Win!

DMT
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Dec 2, 2013 - 07:44pm PT
Yeah, you win, Dingus. Whatever that means....
Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
U.N. Ambassador, Crackistan
Dec 2, 2013 - 07:45pm PT
You told me to STFU.

Do you at least remember that?

DMT
PSP also PP

Trad climber
Berkeley
Dec 2, 2013 - 07:50pm PT
How does seeing reality different change the reality that science measures?

IMO it doesn't change what science measures, it just helps you be less selfish and give you insight that some applied science is bad for the earth.
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Dec 2, 2013 - 07:58pm PT
I don't recall telling to you STFU on this topic, Mr Milktoast.
Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
U.N. Ambassador, Crackistan
Dec 2, 2013 - 08:01pm PT
Ok that explains it.

Thanks.

DMT
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