Politics, God and Religion vs. Science

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go-B

climber
Hebrews 1:3
Jul 25, 2013 - 04:56pm PT
This sort of thing confuses me. Christianity is a door. Am I supposed to wholeheartedly embrace it to find it's deep meaning and true-ness? Or can I just think that it, like every other ancient religion, is about mystical prophesies and control of the masses? Is it a door or just the painting of a door on a brick wall?

For me, Christianity is accepting what God and Jesus say about themselves in the bible!

Like in any "Good Book" or movie you have to be drawn into the story!

I couldn't think up how God is depicted in the bible myself - holy, just and forgiving!

And come up with a way that He stays true to and not deny Himself?

Well by His infinite mercy and wisdom He sent His Son Jesus to satisfy all His righteousness!

And He has all bases covered, by giving us an undeserved clear conscious now and eternal life at the

resurrection, a win win I'd say!
Norton

Social climber
the Wastelands
Jul 25, 2013 - 05:52pm PT
and what would be this thread's reaction IF I posted about my ATHEISM with the same joy and frequency that Gobee does his about his god and bible?

out of the blue, just ramble on about what my "non belief" in gods has meant to my life?

I would be attacked for.......well, for somehow,,,attacking the god believers

even though that would be neither the words or the intent

no one attacks Gobee, in fact he is welcomed here with much tolerant good will

how about Werner Braun?

when, again, out of the blue and without any prior posted provocation, he feels the need to inject his own god is all wonderful and we all are stupid for not digging god as he does routine

but no one dare attack, or question, or call him "stupid" as he does others on multiple threads, the Great Rescuer Braun, because many leap to his defense as if he is sacred and kiss his ass righteously

I think individuals' status or pecking order has a lot to do with what is both said, and not said

cintune

climber
The Utility Muffin Research Kitchen
Jul 25, 2013 - 07:05pm PT
Word. All too human.
BLUEBLOCR

Social climber
joshua tree
Jul 25, 2013 - 07:53pm PT
go-B, that last one was my favorite writing from you yet! Thank You.
___

Norton, same to you!

out of the blue, just ramble on about what my "non belief" in gods has meant to my life?

I for one would be very interested to hear a honest view of an atheists take on life. I wouldn't attack you but I'd sure have some questions.
Dr. F.

Boulder climber
SoCal
Topic Author's Reply - Jul 25, 2013 - 08:44pm PT
BB
The transformation to atheism is truly a freeing experience

For the very first time, you feel totally free
no one looking over your shoulder, no judgment, no need to satisfy some conditional unknown, or conform to some unnatural mind state of fear and guilt.

No purpose, no ultimate goal.
no reason Not to live your life like you never did before, with new purpose, a state of just being alive.
MikeL

climber
SANTA CLARA, CA
Jul 25, 2013 - 08:55pm PT
Dr. F.:

Freedom is a paradox and an illusion. As long as you Think you are free, you aren't because of the very thought of freedom. To be completely free, one must give up freedom in all its forms.

IMO you're confusing yourself by tying freedom to choosing. Choice entails restrictions. If you didn't have to make any choices, then that would be freedom.

How about a baby step towards freedom? Give-up that thing that you think is You, and you'll find more freedom than what you could have with it. (Think about it.)

The Chief

climber
From the Land Mongols under the Whites
Jul 26, 2013 - 05:52am PT
Ya'll THINK way too much. Stop thinking and start living. Now.

Dump the ego, tell that inner voice to stfu and take today as if it is the only and last day you have.

Do that daily and your lives will become so much more meaningful.

Now is all each and everyone of you have.

Stop and smell them flowers. The flowers that you all were too busy thinking about to realize that they ALL been right in front you the entire time.

Fact.
go-B

climber
Hebrews 1:3
Jul 26, 2013 - 06:51am PT
Dr. F. how free are you...

photo not found
Missing photo ID#312948

If God is anything He is love...

1 John 4:7 Beloved, let us love one another, for love is of God; and everyone who loves is born of God and knows God. 8 He who does not love does not know God, for God is love. 9 In this the love of God was manifested toward us, that God has sent His only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through Him. 10 In this is love, not that we loved God, but that He loved us and sent His Son to be the propitiation for our sins. 11 Beloved, if God so loved us, we also ought to love one another.

12 No one has seen God at any time. If we love one another, God abides in us, and His love has been perfected in us. 13 By this we know that we abide in Him, and He in us, because He has given us of His Spirit. 14 And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent the Son as Savior of the world. 15 Whoever confesses that Jesus is the Son of God, God abides in him, and he in God. 16 And we have known and believed the love that God has for us. God is love, and he who abides in love abides in God, and God in him.

17 Love has been perfected among us in this: that we may have boldness in the day of judgment; because as He is, so are we in this world. 18 There is no fear in love; but perfect love casts out fear, because fear involves torment. But he who fears has not been made perfect in love. 19 We love Him because He first loved us.

20 If someone says, “I love God,” and hates his brother, he is a liar; for he who does not love his brother whom he has seen, how can he love God whom he has not seen? 21 And this commandment we have from Him: that he who loves God must love his brother also.

5 Whoever believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and everyone who loves Him who begot also loves him who is begotten of Him. 2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and keep His commandments. 3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome. 4 For whatever is born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world—our faith. 5 Who is he who overcomes the world, but he who believes that Jesus is the Son of God?

6 This is He who came by water and blood—Jesus Christ; not only by water, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit who bears witness, because the Spirit is truth. 7 For there are three that bear witness in heaven: the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit; and these three are one. 8 And there are three that bear witness on earth: the Spirit, the water, and the blood; and these three agree as one.

9 If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater; for this is the witness of God which He has testified of His Son. 10 He who believes in the Son of God has the witness in himself; he who does not believe God has made Him a liar, because he has not believed the testimony that God has given of His Son. 11 And this is the testimony: that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son. 12 He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life. 13 These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life, and that you may continue to believe in the name of the Son of God.

...and may you be found in the love of Christ!
MH2

climber
Jul 26, 2013 - 07:23am PT
Ya'll THINK way too much. Stop thinking and start living. Now.


That's what Archimede's Mom told him.

Thinking can make life MORE meaningful, not less. No different than smelling flowers.

Too often, people let thinking get the better of them, but we should all do a little of it.

I believe our Mom's would want us to look both ways before crossing a busy street.
Norton

Social climber
the Wastelands
Jul 26, 2013 - 09:15am PT
Given a hard choice, I will take reason, thinking, and the oh so deviled "discursive" mind over meditation, spiritualism, and intuition all day long.

I have yet to read of any advantage that has over discursive other then what... better relaxation?

Patience, waiting, and waiting for thousands of posts to get to the beef, and there isn't any.

Go ahead, criticize me for relying on my life's "experiences" as opposed to the non-discursive







locker

Social climber
Some Rehab in Bolivia
Jul 26, 2013 - 09:18am PT


...




Credit: locker
...




Dr. F.

Boulder climber
SoCal
Topic Author's Reply - Jul 26, 2013 - 09:27am PT
IMO you're confusing yourself by tying freedom to choosing.
MikeL.

No confusion here, it's not a choice, it's a freedom from an mental overburden.

The only choice is choose the overburden of something above you,
or choosing to reject it as delusion.

Being free of delusion is a choice, but the confusion does not lie there.
locker

Social climber
Some Rehab in Bolivia
Jul 26, 2013 - 09:31am PT


Dr F KNOWS where the "BEEF" is!!!...

























































Credit: locker
...





















(Sorry man!!! I couldn't fuking resist... LMAO!!!)...

Dr. F.

Boulder climber
SoCal
Topic Author's Reply - Jul 26, 2013 - 09:36am PT
Living outside the discursive mind is great if you live in a monastery with all your bodily needs taken care of by servants and charity

You will have to live a life of poverty, since you can't work, nor climb, nor do anything outside the life of the monastery, since you would have no money, so in some ways, your life is over for a cult like existence, that you can justify in your mind as a higher mission in life.
Can anyone call that true freedom? No


But what about the end, will it be worth it?
Not if there isn't an afterlife,
you will not reincarnate into a higher life state or a Buddha, you will not end the endless suffering or karmic cycles for evermore.

That is a choice, sacrifice everything for a Spiritual Cause, or just give in to the laws of nature and humanism.
Largo

Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
Jul 26, 2013 - 09:37am PT
Given a hard choice, I will take reason, thinking, and the oh so deviled "discursive" mind over meditation, spiritualism, and intuition all day long.
----


Meditation, spiritualism (what is that, exactly??), and intuition are all approaches. Not to be confused with the subject for the moment - our swirling subjective core, which is totally unavoidable since we live in it all the time.

One way to keep from drowning is to try and objectify the subjective by way of the discursive. That's what most of us do. The limitation here is that we cannot objectify the discursive in the process because objectifying itself, along with all forms of quantifying, requires us to narrow focus on discrete things and quantities, somewhat excluding things outside our focus. So we never get a vista of the whole, only the working parts.

The other way to get a wide view is to disidentify with the content (QUALIA) and detach, including detaching from the imaginary "viewer" itself. This process is known variously as "no mind" and other names and is a process totally foreign to the discursive, which is not being "deviled" here by anyone I have read. It's just that one tool is not sufficient for the whole mo fo.

Also, note the power of the illusion that we "choose" the discrsive. This implies that we can choose otherwise. If you believe that, try and set the discursive down for 60 seconds and see how far you get. This is one of the really persistant ways we bullshit ourselves, believing that we are piloting our rational minds.

JL
WBraun

climber
Jul 26, 2013 - 09:37am PT
Such bullsh!t ^^^^^ coming from Dr F the mental speculator with no clue .....
Dr. F.

Boulder climber
SoCal
Topic Author's Reply - Jul 26, 2013 - 09:41am PT
Credit: Dr. F.

Good to know I can still get a rise out of the Cultists
Norton

Social climber
the Wastelands
Jul 26, 2013 - 09:53am PT
photo not found
Missing photo ID#312974
MikeL

climber
SANTA CLARA, CA
Jul 26, 2013 - 09:57am PT
JL, and perhaps others:

Doing some research for new courses, I ran across this essay that one might appreciate. The first paragraph after the epitaph presents a good summary of the essay.

http://purlieujournal.com/3/3_zabala.html

Zabala's essay is simple, philosophical, oriented to education, easy-to-read, and clear (I think), although just a tad long. It expresses complaints about analytical philosophy.

Although the article does not discuss discursive-mind activities per se, it does argue that investigations into Being in philosophy have been institutionally subordinated and de-legitimized by the academy, U.S. thinking, and scientism.

The essay is also a response to Stephen Hawking's 2010's declaration that philosophy is dead. (See also http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/may/27/physics-philosophy-quantum-relativity-einstein);

I initially discovered the author's writings on Al Jazeera's website. http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opinion/2013/06/201361082357860647.html
Spider Savage

Mountain climber
The shaggy fringe of Los Angeles
Jul 26, 2013 - 10:15am PT
A friend of mine pointed out this comic strip on Facebook this morning.

It reminded me very much of this dear thread. I think if you like hanging out here on this thread, you'll enjoy this link. (Really only good on a full sized computer. Really hard to read on a smart phone.)

http://comicsthatsaysomething.quora.com/A-Day-at-the-Park

It is a 16 page graphic novel comic. Precious.
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