Politics, God and Religion vs. Science

Search
Go

Discussion Topic

Return to Forum List
Post a Reply
Messages 16481 - 16500 of total 22344 in this topic << First  |  < Previous  |  Show All  |  Next >  |  Last >>
MikeL

climber
SANTA CLARA, CA
Oct 3, 2013 - 11:31am PT
Metaphorically.
WBraun

climber
Oct 3, 2013 - 11:44am PT
the trap of meaninglessness, living in detachment, subtle superiority, drunk on emptiness, and so on.

Mike is pointing out the difference between "seeing" (as it is) and not how we think it is.

There's a huge difference between the two .....



Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
And every fool knows, a dog needs a home, and...
Oct 3, 2013 - 12:10pm PT
Yep.

To my laypersons perspective, what our brains do is near real-time modeling of reality. What we think is what our model reveals to us. The model is quickly validated by interaction with that real world.

But when our brain circuitry goes askew, the model is skewed accordingly. And the validating inputs (or invalidating....) are either ignored or absent...

how is this person to know or realize they have lost their grip on reality?

A 'losing grip' is the perfect term for it - on a climbers forum in particular.

The whole thing makes me think of Helen Keller...

DMT
WBraun

climber
Oct 3, 2013 - 12:14pm PT
how is this person to know or realize they have lost their grip on reality?

When you "think" you know who you really are ........
cintune

climber
The Utility Muffin Research Kitchen
Oct 3, 2013 - 01:36pm PT
TomCochrane

Trad climber
Santa Cruz Mountains and Monterey Bay
Oct 4, 2013 - 12:10am PT
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/10352062/Supervolcano-that-transformed-Mars-found.html

A vast crater on the surface of Mars may have been created by an exploding supervolcano rather than a meteorite impact, new research suggests.

Scientists using data from spacecraft orbiting the Red Planet have found evidence for what they believe is the remnants of an ancient supervolcano that erupted on the Martian surface.
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Potemkin Village
Oct 4, 2013 - 12:13am PT
Woman in sudan whipped 40 times because riding a car with no male relative...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wuLacftl2VE#t=31
paul roehl

Boulder climber
california
Oct 4, 2013 - 12:53am PT
I would imagine the man whipping the woman really "thinks" that's the righteous and proper thing to do. Faith is such a blessing, now that woman will realize it's an improper thing for a woman to drive.

"The sleep of reason produces monsters."
Ward Trotter

Trad climber
Oct 4, 2013 - 01:28pm PT
For me this thread has become...
The .................GREAT...........WHITE..........WHALE......

Credit: Ward Trotter

"Moby Dick seeks thee not. It is thou, thou, that madly seekest him!".
—Moby-Dick, Ch. 135

…to the last I grapple with thee; from hell's heart I stab at thee; for hate's sake I spit my last breath at thee.
—Moby-Dick, Chapter 135. "The Chase.—Third Day"[33]

---BTW the musician "Moby" played the Fonda Theater in LA last night( and tonight). He just released his eleventh album "iInnocents" . He is the great-great-great nephew of Melville.
Marlow

Sport climber
OSLO
Oct 4, 2013 - 01:43pm PT
Jesus Hits Like The Atom Bomb
cintune

climber
The Utility Muffin Research Kitchen
Oct 4, 2013 - 09:28pm PT
Interesting article on language and perception:

http://www.theguardian.com/books/2010/jun/12/language-glass-colour-guy-deutscher
MikeL

climber
SANTA CLARA, CA
Oct 4, 2013 - 10:23pm PT
When you "think" you know who you really are ........

:-) It can be the most subtle obscuration. To wit . . .Ward:

It's been said that Moby Dick is a story about obsession, and that it is America's greatest piece of literature.

How strange to put those two together . . . "American obsession" . . . of what?

What is the white whale? And who is the narrator? Is it Ishmael (as claimed in the first line), or is it really Ahab reporting from the other side after a transition? What did Ahab become so obsessed about that he would go after a whale with only a pocket knife at the end of the book (not as the picture portrays)? Ahab's soliloquy in the book, at various points, suggests that there's something eating at Ahab other than a large white whale. He wants to know the absolute truth about something.

Melville's novel has tended to defy or refuse interpretation. It is clearly existential and maybe spiritual in some sense--maybe in a big way.

What would demand the kind of Ahab's over-the-top obsession?

"If man will strike, strike through the mask!
How can the prisoner reach outside except
by thrusting through the wall?"
(Ahab, Moby Dick)

"The end of illusion is the end of you."
(U.G. Krishnamurti)
Largo

Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
Oct 4, 2013 - 11:52pm PT
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8tp-nbchmHU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EwOvfBsMOvY

These folks have the idea . . .
WBraun

climber
Oct 5, 2013 - 12:29am PT
"The end of illusion is the end of you."


It's the beginning of the real YOU.

Personality and individuality is eternal ......
Marlow

Sport climber
OSLO
Oct 5, 2013 - 04:53am PT
"Nasa is facing an extraordinary backlash from US researchers after it emerged that the space agency has banned Chinese scientists, including those working at US institutions, from a conference on grounds of national security.

Nasa officials rejected applications from Chinese nationals who hoped to attend the meeting at the agency's Ames research centre in California next month citing a law, passed in March, which prohibits anyone from China setting foot in a Nasa building.

The law is part of a broad and aggressive move initiated by congressman Frank Wolf, chair of the House appropriations committee, which has jurisdiction over Nasa. It aims to restrict the foreign nationals' access to Nasa facilities, ostensibly to counter espionage.

But the ban has angered many US scientists who say Chinese students and researchers in their labs are being discriminated against. A growing number of US scientists have now decided to boycott the meeting in protest, with senior academics withdrawing individually, or pulling out their entire research groups.

The conference is being held for US and international teams who work on Nasa's Kepler space telescope programme, which has been searching the cosmos for signs of planets beyond our solar system. The meeting is the most important event in the academic calendar for scientists who specialise in the field.

Alan Boss, co-organiser of the Kepler conference, refused to discuss the issue, but said: "This is not science, it's politics unfortunately."

Geoff Marcy, an astronomy professor at the University of California, Berkeley, who has been tipped to win a Nobel prize for his pioneering work on exoplanets, or planets outside the solar system, called the ban "completely shameful and unethical".

In an email sent to the conference organisers, Marcy said: "In good conscience, I cannot attend a meeting that discriminates in this way. The meeting is about planets located trillions of miles away, with no national security implications," he wrote.

"It is completely unethical for the United States of America to exclude certain countries from pure science research," Marcy told the Guardian. "It's an ethical breach that is unacceptable. You have to draw the line.""

http://www.theguardian.com/science/2013/oct/05/us-scientists-boycott-nasa-china-ban
sullly

Trad climber
Oct 5, 2013 - 08:38am PT
Mike L. and Ward, According to the lit. crit. I've read, the whale signifies God. Melville turns a Transcendentalist's/Romanticist's lens on an archetype.

This is similar to his pal Hawthorne doing the same, involving a bygone era (Puritan) in The Scarlet Letter.

I agree with Hemingway in that modern Am. lit. begins with Huck Finn.
Pepe Le Poseur

Social climber
Parts North
Oct 5, 2013 - 09:52am PT
"The end of illusion is the end of you."


It's the beginning of the real YOU.


-right up till you die
Pepe Le Poseur

Social climber
Parts North
Oct 5, 2013 - 10:01am PT
Marlow - If vigilant congressmen don't keep the Chi-coms from NASA, they'll soon be building large telescopes and lookin' this way, watching our every move instead of watching planets....don't know about you, but I don't want some Chinese voyeur watching me use the bathroom

(then again, maybe I do. maybe they'll post it to YouTube)


Besides, if politics doesn't help keep a lid on science, then where would we be?? The security and survival of certain parties depends on it!
MikeL

climber
SANTA CLARA, CA
Oct 5, 2013 - 10:19am PT
Thanks, Sullly! What story Melville sees in a white whale, or is himself struggling with, is an interesting question. I think it's a spiritual story, too, a story about Melville's own struggles for deeper personhood--or should I say non-personhood.

Melville wrote to Hawthorn that the book's motto was:

Ego non baptize the in nominee patris, sed in nominee diabolic.

which translates roughly to: "I baptize you not in the name of the father, but in the name of the devil."

In the book, the quote is presented as Ahab makes a newly forged harpoon for the whale. Almost no high school teacher explains why Melville made that the novel's motto.


(BTW, I misspoke earlier. Ahab attacked the white whale with his 6" pocket knife when his leg was taken by the whale. It did not happen at the end of the novel.)


For this post, and for the thread on the idolization of Yabo:

Whoever battles monsters should take care
not to become a monster too,
For if you stare long enough into the Abyss,
the Abyss stares also into you.
(Friedrich Nietzsche)
sullly

Trad climber
Oct 5, 2013 - 10:21am PT
But, Pepe, society should not worship science to the extent that the Arts are ancillary. Masterpieces like Moby Dick cannot be penned under such conditions, while Star Trek episodes can.

Mike L., I have taught high school English for decades. I am just going by what I know.
Messages 16481 - 16500 of total 22344 in this topic << First  |  < Previous  |  Show All  |  Next >  |  Last >>
Return to Forum List
Post a Reply
 
Our Guidebooks
Check 'em out!
SuperTopo Guidebooks


Try a free sample topo!

 
SuperTopo on the Web

Review Categories
Recent Route Beta
Recent Gear Reviews