Politics, God and Religion vs. Science

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MH2

climber
Sep 22, 2013 - 10:25pm PT
take a walk and see what is on the other side of that ridge



Sir! On the other side of that ridge is ANOTHER RIDGE. SIR!



Pepe Le Poseur

Social climber
Parts North
Sep 22, 2013 - 11:51pm PT
"The only knuckleheads are us!
He put us behind the wheel at 6, instead of 16 like the law states."

Blublocr - Did you read your own quote above? Seems you are making my argument for me.
paul roehl

Boulder climber
california
Sep 23, 2013 - 12:03am PT
“You're just a nutcase, Man you are stupid .....”

“This is where you look like a nutcase. Gods Word describes His Holiness.
By a mans walk does God verify.”

Ah yes, religion… Where thoughtful arguments like the ones above hold sway as intellectual
paradigms. Makes you want to be a believer!
PSP also PP

Trad climber
Berkeley
Sep 23, 2013 - 12:06am PT
Those ridges would be difficult to go over!

Jgill re: born again experience ; I had a rapturous (sp) experience at several zen meditation retreats and thought this must be what happens to the born again people. Basically "I" took a seat way back in the bus and when that happens you become very aware of your surrounding and you are completely available. You become so sensitive you feel like love is oozing from your pores. I stopped ( for a while ) judging people and could see their karma at work. Instead of thinking they were assh##es I could clearly see that they were just struggling with stuff. It was such a mind blower that I could easily see if you did the same thing in a christian setting you would label it as excepting jesus into your heart. I did some buddhist research and the description of what happened were called Jhana concentration states and it clearly says that is only one of the steps and more effort is necessary.

Sat a 1.5 day retreat this Saturday and sunday confirmed that the most important thing is to make an effort whatever it is ( for self realization).
WBraun

climber
Sep 23, 2013 - 12:15am PT
paul

You are a nutcase.

It has nothing to do with religion.

Just you period, and all your blanket fabricated projections onto the world outside of you.

Take a vacation dude and find yourself first ......
Largo

Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
Sep 23, 2013 - 12:20am PT
Sat a 1.5 day retreat this Saturday and sunday confirmed that the most important thing is to make an effort whatever it is ( for self realization).
-


Sadly, most of this crew would rather think about it, then give reasons why thinking and reasoning is what makes the world go around, and that if you ever let up, even for 1.5 days, they would start slobbering over themselves and wouldn't be able to perform "simply addition and division." And my pappy was Daniel Boon . . .

For a group supposedly so steeped in rational and discriminating thought these fears are wonky beliefs are surprising. But more surprising still is the apathy about venturing even an inch out of routine. I can understand testing the holds, but not bothering to tic off a few moves rather amazes me, moreso the compulsion to provide excuses and justifications.

What you just confirmed - which is the natural conclusion of most everyone who stays with the work - is here believed, with body and soul, to be either a delusion, a fuzzy feeling, an interpretation, or something for you, but not mankind. That is really too bad.

JL
PSP also PP

Trad climber
Berkeley
Sep 23, 2013 - 12:43am PT
As zen master Seung Sahn used to say when people would leave a dharma talk in disgust or tell him he was full of sh##. "More suffering is necessary"

Suffering is a wonderful instigator (sp). My girl friend (who was really cute) broke up with me (30 yrs ago)and told to learn how to rock climb ! so I did and it was crazy good!
jgill

Boulder climber
Colorado
Sep 23, 2013 - 12:58am PT
Sadly, most of this crew would rather think about it (JL)

Not sure that's accurate. But it is fun to poke at you and see what happens.


;>)
paul roehl

Boulder climber
california
Sep 23, 2013 - 01:03am PT
"paul

You are a nutcase.

It has nothing to do with religion.

Just you period, and all your blanket fabricated projections onto the world outside of you.

Take a vacation dude and find yourself first ......"


Really?

I found myself along time ago and I just got back from a long vacation.
And the "blanket fabrications" are yours alone. Your arguments are pathetic. You should try making reasonable arguments instead of bullying people around. I could give a crap what you think of me.
WBraun

climber
Sep 23, 2013 - 01:09am PT
You just proved my points.

You're doing it again .....

Pepe Le Poseur

Social climber
Parts North
Sep 23, 2013 - 07:41am PT
Largo - I don't think it is apathy that promotes routine in this case, but rather fear.

Apathy does promote a defacto routine for some, but then the routine changes in response to outside influences that require energy and effort to change...found more often in some on the leftish end

Many on the rightish end of the spectrum cling to rigid routine out of fear.

No hard and fast rules, or blanket statements intended here, just routine observations...
go-B

climber
Hebrews 1:3
Sep 23, 2013 - 10:13am PT
photo not found
Missing photo ID#322574

1 John 2:2 and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world.

Atlas is just a wimpy kid compared to Jesus, unlike me who is light as a feather and just blown away, THANK YOU JESUS!
Dr. F.

Ice climber
SoCal
Topic Author's Reply - Sep 23, 2013 - 11:27am PT
I wonder if some people here are just on one long LSD bender, maybe that plane that crashed had some secret stash that they're still only half through.
donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
Sep 23, 2013 - 11:29am PT
You nailed it!
MH2

climber
Sep 23, 2013 - 11:30am PT
What you just confirmed - which is the natural conclusion of most everyone who stays with the work - is here believed, with body and soul, to be either a delusion, a fuzzy feeling, an interpretation, or something for you, but not mankind. That is really too bad.


Whether it is fear, apathy, contentment, or something else, I do not pursue the meditative, spiritual, or religious practices and experiences of others. I am only curious.

I venerate people. I do not venerate tradition, no matter how many thousands of years old. Except for tea-making, of course!

For me, rationality has little to do with it. I just don't feel the need. Too little suffering? Yes, or good tolerance for it. Rationality and calm clear logic play little role in my life and from what I know of mankind, little role there, either.

Mankind would be far better off with a little more love oozing from its pores and a lot less pointing of fingers at 'the others' who need uplifting or conversion.
Dr. F.

Ice climber
SoCal
Topic Author's Reply - Sep 23, 2013 - 11:34am PT
I have explored the mediatative states, I enjoyed them
I would still like to do more.
They have just provided more information to me as to the nature of Reality, God and nothingness

My conclusion:
Nothing means nothing, there is no God, reality is real.
Yet the spiritual journey goes on, because that's really all there is, life as process.
Then you die.
Largo

Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
Sep 23, 2013 - 12:16pm PT
How one goes about their awakening process is their business, but one thing is for sure: It is never a cognitive process (thinking).

You have to first become aware of what is going on, and trying to "think this through" is like trying to get to know someone by talking (thinking) 24-7. To get to know someone, you have to settle in and actively and attentively LISTEN, with no judgement and no agenda. Over time, and occasionally all at once, life will start to shimmer into focus, though never completely IME.

So the ironic thing is that when people say, "I can't be bothered to do that," or "I have no real interest in meditation," what they re actually saying is, "I am addicted to thinking so don't ask me to to do anything else, because I won't." As though there aren't many other paths to "listening" besides meditation. There are, but none of them are cognitive exercises.

The refusal to listen is the real culprit here, but it masquerades as a sober, rational approach to living. But ask people to put it down even for a moment and just listen, and brace for people contrasting this to being "lost on an LSD bender," or "drinking my own urine." That's just from inviting folks to exhale, sit still and listen to their lives for say ten minutes a day. You'd think we were suggesting eating broken glass or something LOL.

Seen from this sober pov it really is astonishing, and we probably must give the nod to the post a few pages back that unconscious fear is almost certainly beneath the compulsion to never stop thinking, lest we start cannibalizing widows and orphans and speaking in tongues and will forget our multiplication tables. And we actually believe this.

Caramba!

JL

WBraun

climber
Sep 23, 2013 - 12:21pm PT
They "think" you are selling something.

Unfortunately the stupidity in this whole affair is that you can't sell something that everyone already owns.

Except they have no clue they already own it.

They think there's no such thing.

Unknowingly they already own it.

They have no clue who they really are ......

Mistake is "We" "THINK" who/what/we are
Dr. F.

Ice climber
SoCal
Topic Author's Reply - Sep 23, 2013 - 12:28pm PT
This is true.... but there is more.

Of course, There is always more!
My quote was stripping it to bare minimum.
WBraun

climber
Sep 23, 2013 - 12:30pm PT
But all that "more" is packed into the "One"
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