Politics, God and Religion vs. Science

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Messages 16041 - 16060 of total 22761 in this topic << First  |  < Previous  |  Show All  |  Next >  |  Last >>
Dr. F.

Big Wall climber
SoCal
Topic Author's Reply - Jun 27, 2013 - 04:56pm PT
There is Only One belief system/non/religion where Every adherent agree 100% with all the elements of the belief/system/non-religion.

Atheism, we all agree.


They are ALL False Prophets.
Ward Trotter

Trad climber
Jun 27, 2013 - 05:09pm PT
I've just received this transmission from the High Council:

Largo

Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
Jun 27, 2013 - 05:10pm PT
Rather than get hooked up with some outfit with "prophets," why not just persue the thing with a credible teacher who instructs you per a practice, that way it is about the practice, not the teacher. The teacher should be no different than a teacher in any other field. They model and hone you in to the particulars, which are always about you. Then YOU can decide what is real. Eventually you will know in a way lost on discursive reasoning. But the start is to study how your mind normally works, and that is usually a study of reasoning and awareness itself. If you can't see how that works, from the inside - in ways totally impossible to see from without, or from analyzing objective functioning - there is no changing your "mind."

JL

splitter

Trad climber
SoCal Hodad, surfing the galactic plane
Jun 27, 2013 - 05:58pm PT
Why do people pray to Jesus rather than directly to God? My Methodist family says grace to God, prefaced by, "In Jesus name we pray..."
Jesus is God (the Son). He personally taught us how we should pray when he taught us 'The Lords Prayer', "Our Father in heaven..." (He is Lord, btw). In Jesus name..., Jesus is the name above all names, so if your a believer, you are simply saying that we're praying the way He taught us to pray, and in regards to His promise, "What you ask in My name..."!

On the other hand, the earliest prayer that I ever prayed, "Jesus, please help me!" was not only immediately answered, but saved my life and initiated my personally relationship to Him.

Many times prayers are simply begun with "Lord...". That's the way I usually address Him on a personal basis. Other times I might start with, "God...", or Jesus. He knows who your praying to and, in fact, states that He knows your request before you even state it. So, wudevah, bro!
Dr. F.

Big Wall climber
SoCal
Topic Author's Reply - Jun 27, 2013 - 06:52pm PT
Splitter, if you can talk to God, so can I
and he says your wrong about jebus,
God told me jebus is dead, long dead, so saying it was him makes you wrong
Ward Trotter

Trad climber
Jun 27, 2013 - 07:28pm PT
Ward Trotter if you do the same as what i asked of his daughter answer
this please. Does it make sense to do what their med form says? It's
disclosing to a government agency or agencies what's listed as a exemption.

Specialistclimber: without knowing the details firsthand I cannot answer your question, except to say: do what you think is the right thing.
All the best to you and your loved ones my friend.
jogill

climber
Colorado
Jun 27, 2013 - 07:37pm PT
Unusual times on P,G&RvsS.


;>/
splitter

Trad climber
SoCal Hodad, surfing the galactic plane
Jun 27, 2013 - 08:47pm PT
Splitter, if you can talk to God, so can I
true, that is what He wants everyone to do, it shows that you have faith that He exists. but, you need to take the next step and ask Him to take over your life. get off the thrown that you're sitting on and place Him on it...make Him God of your life. one simple sentence (just a breath away)...He'll know if your sincere.
...and he says that your wrong about jebus, God told me that jebus is dead, long dead, so saying its him makes you wrong
Jesus is the one and only God. so, you must have been talking to someone else. there are many 'gods', but only one God!

sorry to say, but you are totally clueless, dr.frye! i hate to be so deliberate, but it's the truth. it is very simple to initiate a relationship with Him, just ask Him, He's been waiting. like i said, He is only a breath away.

regarding prophecy, i did prophecy once to someone who most likely lurks here on ST (and it happened very shortly after). he is well known in Mammoth and has/had many friends in the Valley. was one of my best friends and on and off roommates for many years. and, i have heard Him tell me many things that were going to happen over the years and they all came true. i never had one iota of doubt that they wouldn't come true. He spoke, that was it. i have told of a few of those times here on ST. like i have said many times, i know the Lords voice. He has a very distinctive voice, plus, and/or presence/Spirit. but, unless you know Him, that would be like trying to describe the colors of a rainbow to a person who has been blind since birth. and furthermore (in your case) like they say, you can lead a horse to water, but you can't force him to drink.
MikeL

climber
SANTA CLARA, CA
Jun 27, 2013 - 09:45pm PT
Tonight Jogill and I are of one mind.
TomCochrane

Trad climber
Santa Cruz Mountains and Monterey Bay
Jun 27, 2013 - 11:09pm PT
boring
MikeL

climber
SANTA CLARA, CA
Jun 28, 2013 - 09:35am PT
How am I supposed to know which religion to follow? Who is the fraud and faker?

Base, this is a funny question coming from you. I wouldn't think that you had any personal interest at all in religion. Therefore, I assume this is an analytical question, a question about a dilemma or curiosity. (Your post suggests you think there should be only one religion, the rest being fraudulent.)

I doubt there is a rational answer to your question. But that doesn't mean the question isn't meaningful.

Looking up "perennial philosophy" on wiki can offer one explanation or interpretation. From here in California, there are many ways I can get to Chicago--there are multiple pathways. The perennial philosophy makes a similar argument--there is a single underlying truth of reality, and anyone who has ever seen it and understood it has expressed it to others in idiosyncratic ways (viz, a variety of religions) that suit different views or personalities.

If you think there is a single reality (only one), then you could argue that any discipline (neuroscience, physics, mathematics, geology, etc.) all describe that one reality from their own vantage points. Those disciplines, unimpeded, should eventually find their way to a final ultimate truth. ("Equifinality," in general systems theory parlance.)

On a personal level, though, I'd say a choice of religion is illogical and experiential. If there is something that you need in your life "to move forward / grow / evolve," that something Will Find You. (Sadly it may not be in the form you want or expect.)

I don't know how that process really works though. It might be the result of the Pleiadian High Council, aliens, minor or major dieties, crop circles, psychological projections, social construction, retrospective sensemaking, spiral dynamic vibrations, or Nietzschean will to power. All I know is that it works somehow.

I've heard therapists say something similar about finding life partners after break-ups and divorces: once a person finally gets over the past relationship (hook, line, and sinker), then almost immediately they find an appropriately suitable partner, but not before. (Go figure.)

Why or how do people find their ways to geology? To cognitive science? To engineering? To teaching? To climbing? To anything? Who knows? Who can answer such questions?

Is reality random? Is it pre-ordained? Is it reliant upon agents' free will and control? Each view presents more problems than it solves. How could reality be random? (Wouldn't we see that at every moment?) How could it be pre-ordained? (Who or what is pulling the strings?) How could reality exhibit any precision if a few billion organisms had autonomy? (How would that work?)
Klimmer

Mountain climber
Jun 28, 2013 - 10:17am PT
New Scientific Evidence for God
http://www.newscientificevidenceforgod.com/?m=1


April 2, 2012 03:06 AM EDT
Was Sodom and Gomorrah Wiped Out by a Comet?
http://m.blogs.christianpost.com/comets-of-god/was-sodom-and-gomorrah-wiped-out-by-a-comet-9091/


Book: The Comets of God New Scientific Evidence for God
http://www.thecometsofgod.com/theysay.html


The Comets Of God-New Scientific Evidence for God: Recent archeological, geological and astronomical discoveries that shine new light on the Bible and its prophecies (Hardcover)
By Phd Jeffrey Goodman
http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/0984489126/ref=aw_ls__2?colid=2GL3DFQ4AXH2G&coliid=I3D7YJMT8BMAWR

Kindle version:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B004BSH0WI/ref=mp_s_a_1_2?qid=1372438352&sr=8-2&pi=SL75

Great read.

Phd Goodman and I think alike. He's a scientist and he's a man of faith. He's a Messianic Jew. Baruch HaShem.

The book of Nature, and The Good Book of G-d are in absolute agreement. There're plenty of physical empirical evidences that Hashem tells us the truth and the Word of G-d fully describes many truths of science thousands of years prior to modern man and the development of the scientific method.

G-d is wonderfully omnipotent. He knew this day would come when man says "prove it." Well he does if you're willing to listen.


Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
And every fool knows, a dog needs a home, and...
Jun 28, 2013 - 10:26am PT
klimmer LIVES!!!111 There must be a god!

Hi klimmer!

DMT
The Chief

climber
Climber from the Land Mongols under the Whites
Jun 28, 2013 - 10:30am PT
They are ALL False Prophets.

Including yourself DRF. Most assuredly you are at the top of that heap. Your closed minded one way ideology guarantees that nothing intrudes in or on that platform. Blinders superglued to your brain. Gotta love it.

You are a true Pharisee of your self-centered secular humanistic ideology at best. Nothing more.
BASE104

Social climber
An Oil Field
Jun 28, 2013 - 12:54pm PT
Mike,

I grew up a Methodist, but turned my back on organized religion around the age of 13. At that time I was able to ask many of the hard questions, and Christianity seemed OK, but I rarely saw it practiced the way it was preached. That was a huge problem with the Baptists, who ran my home town. I was a sedate Methodist, very formal and no yelling or loud praises coming from the pews.

Hell, I was saved in a Baptist church at a revival when very young. I thought it was pretty weird, and wouldn't have done it if I had known what it would be like. Many of the Baptists were huge hypocrites, and everyone knew it.

My dad is big in our old church and has attended regular bible study for decades. We have some great discussions regarding religion. I am close to many church goers, and I would never try to test their faith. Why?

I rarely go to church anymore, unless it is a funeral, but when I was in Bush Alaska, I would always go to the village church. The Quakers got in early there, but I attended Episcopal and other churches.

This way I could better understand the values of the elders. Most natives have long been converted to Christianity. Out of them all, the eskimos seem quite faithful. There life is hard, and they have no wish to go back to the old days.

You should read up on their old shamanistic religion. There were a ton of taboos, and most of them still follow the taboos to this day. The only one that has changed is that menstruating women do not have to go to the menstrual hut and hide until it is over.

It is quite strange, but I have sung familiar hymns in Inupiat and Gwich'n.

I'm not a militant atheist. My beef is with people who claim to understand the answer to everything, and there are a few of them here.

I don't think of science as a God. That is ridiculous. Science has shown me numerous examples of truth, though. Unfortunately, it fails miserably as a religion, and JL calling it "scientism" is an attempt to mischaracterize it.

Anyone want to hear how we know that the Earth has a liquid outer core? It is a one paragraph answer, and simple to understand.

Ward Trotter

Trad climber
Jun 28, 2013 - 01:10pm PT
Anyone want to hear how we know that the Earth has a liquid outer core? It is a one paragraph answer, and simple to understand.

Does it have to do with its effect upon the earth's magnetic field?
Or the pressure that is known to exist there?

I have another question :

Why do these super continents , like Pangea, and those before Pangea , keep breaking up and reassembling? I understand there is tectonic movement but why doesn't a state of relative stability develop in which the continents coalesce and then move around as a whole if they must move around at all?
BASE104

Social climber
An Oil Field
Jun 28, 2013 - 01:18pm PT
Credit: BASE104
Largo

Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
Jun 28, 2013 - 01:25pm PT
and JL calling it "scientism" is an attempt to mischaracterize it.
--


I hardly coined that term. Look into it, if you want, and get yourself straight.

Scientism is not a knock on quantifying. Only someone with an all-or-nothing view of quantifying would ever consider it as much. Scientism simply is the belief that quantifying is a kind of favored-nation vehicle to truth, whereby all other vehicles are actually doing science, but without the instrumentation or symbolic abstractions (numbers, etc.) That's the blind spot for many dedicated quantifiers: not being able to imagine or appreciate that aside from quantifying, nothing else is available to human beings but "God," magic and wuwu. Quantifying is often blindly self-refferential in this regard.

An extreme, fundamntalist take on this is to assert that the discursive mind has no limits on quantifying or "knowing" reality. The only way of getting past this illusion is to start looking very carefully at how the discursive mind actually works, but from the inside, since external, objective functiong analysis yield only second-hand abstractions per the discursive. However, as has been shown many times, few on thi list are willing or even interested in doing that work, which is slow and at times tedious. Much easier (but usually way off base) to just argue the points from wherever you are and from whatever your own experience has led you to believe is "true."

In other words, scientism is NOT a knock on quantifying unless you have elevated quantifying to a kind of religio-all knowing all-powerful kind of status, whereby the process has a God-like top end, namely, none. That is, there is NO limitiation to measuring whatsoever in the pursuit of truth.

Granted, this is an extreme, if not crackpot view that few would ever cop to, but note how many balk at the idea of "limits" being applied to quantifying. Behind this, quite naturally, is the afrementioined religio cult of mind kind illusion - and we can easily see why. People want to believe in SOMETHING absolutely - God, science, quantifying, "objective reality." The list goes on. It is part of our nature.

JL
BASE104

Social climber
An Oil Field
Jun 28, 2013 - 01:26pm PT
Does it have to do with its effect upon the earth's magnetic field?
Or the pressure that is known to exist there?

No. It has to do with earthquakes. There are a number of types of waves given off by earthquakes, but we can just consider pressure and shear waves.

A pressure wave is similar to sound. It is just pressure waves propagating through either a liquid, gas, or solid.

Shear waves cannot propagate through liquids or gasses. The Earth is rigged with thousands of seismometers, and they can be used to image the interior of the earth, very much like exploration geologists use seismic to look for oil and gas.

If you map the Planet for the shear wave arrivals, there is a big blind spot directly opposite the Earth from the earthquake. The shear waves can't propagate through a fluid due to the lack of shear strength, so we know that the outer core is liquid.

It is simple to define its size as well, just by studying the angles between the receiving seismometer stations and the earthquake source.

Earthquakes give off a LOT of shear waves, and they tend to do the most damage. Most people aren't aware that the entire planet is tuned in to this network. Triangulation of various stations easily tells the epicenter and depth of the Earthquake within a few minutes.
Marlow

Sport climber
OSLO
Jun 28, 2013 - 01:26pm PT
How to Trim Your Angry Cats Claws!
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