Politics, God and Religion vs. Science

Search
Go

Discussion Topic

Return to Forum List
Post a Reply
Messages 15621 - 15640 of total 22697 in this topic << First  |  < Previous  |  Show All  |  Next >  |  Last >>
MH2

climber
Jun 11, 2013 - 10:55pm PT
^^^

Sounds almost like a theorem.
TomCochrane

Trad climber
Santa Cruz Mountains and Monterey Bay
Jun 11, 2013 - 10:57pm PT
yes


basic unified field theorem
cintune

climber
The Utility Muffin Research Kitchen
Jun 12, 2013 - 03:32am PT
Billy was a mountain.
go-B

climber
Hebrews 1:3
Jun 12, 2013 - 05:03am PT
Isaiah 61:10 I will greatly rejoice in the Lord,
My soul shall be joyful in my God;
For He has clothed me with the garments of salvation,
He has covered me with the robe of righteousness,

Isaiah 64:6 But we are all like an unclean thing,
And all our righteousnesses are like filthy rags;

Psalm 51:7 Purge me with hyssop, and I shall be clean;
Wash me, and I shall be whiter than snow.

Psalm 103:12 As far as the east is from the west,
So far has He removed our transgressions from us.

Colossians 3:10 and have put on the new man who is renewed in knowledge according to the image of Him who created him

Romans 13:14 But put on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make no provision for the flesh, to fulfill its lusts.

Matthew 17:2 and He was transfigured before them. His face shone like the sun, and His clothes became as white as the light.

1 John 3:2 Beloved, now we are children of God; and it has not yet been revealed what we shall be, but we know that when He is revealed, we shall be like Him, for we shall see Him as He is. 3 And everyone who has this hope in Him purifies himself, just as He is pure.
The Chief

climber
Climber from the Land Mongols under the Whites
Jun 12, 2013 - 05:21am PT
There are summits and false summits.

The summit is not the goal. Rather the process itself. Always. That is the difference between a climber and a summitbagger. Like racing motorbikes or bicycles. The checkered flag is not the goal. Getting the rigs tuned up and then riding the course to the best of ones ability is. Infinite progress. Not perfection.

Spirituality (infinite process of learning/experience without beginning nor end) and Religion (the summit/checkered flag insisting there is a beginning and an end).

The beauty of the spiritual trek is one infinitely seeks/desires nothing. Only walks observing and learning everything along the path. Taking nothing. Just leaving ones footsteps behind them. Soon to be blown away by the wind.

Spirituality inspires one to head into the storm. Taking on the experience and enjoying the energy of it all. Religion runs from the storm seeking shelter to avoid the perceived chaos and destruction. Ships are not built to weather out a storm tied up to a dock in the harbor.

Humanity grows more and more intelligent. Yet there is clearly more trouble and less happiness daily.

How can this be?

It is because intelligence is not the same as wisdom.
splitter

Trad climber
SoCal Hodad, surfing the galactic plane
Jun 12, 2013 - 06:38am PT
Chief - Spirituality has absolutely nothing to do with faith.
that is true of the spirituality/spiritual realm that you are involved with (and what others are describing and talking about on this thread). you can definitely open yourself up to/encounter that part of the spiritual realm.

i stated that we are body, soul and spirit. and someone asked about "spirit, spirituality, and the spiritual realm/universe (one of the two).

in a nutshell;
body - senses, etc
soul - personality, rationality, (mind, will emotions).
spirit - where we connect with God. a space/part of us all. people attempt to fill it with many things other than God (religion/spiritual realm, pursuits, fame and glory, money, drugs, etc).

spirituality - you can interact with the spiritual realm.

spiritual realm - there is a 4th dimension. i have interacted with it, particularly God, His attributes/personality, etc, but also other aspects of that spiritual realm on various occasions. and i have met with the top dog of this earthly spiritual realm face to face and with "eyes wide open". believe me, it/he is not what hollywood would have you believe. he is a very powerful being. and, he does have the power to offer you anything and everything that this world has to offer. and he did offer me just that. and i had absolutely no doubts that he could and did have the power to fulfill that offer. i didn't accept it. i believe it would have been impossible to refuse, without my knowing and having God the Holy Spirit within me. someday i will finish that story (perhaps) on the "Ghost" thread. believe me, he wasn't, and isn't a ghost.

without knowledge of and personal interaction with the one true God of this universe, you would be deceived by him (or his spiritual counterparts), he does present himself as a spirit of light. 'the father of all lies' is very adequate.

faith is of human origin.
FALSE!!!

you don't have a clue about faith, because you have none. you haven't experienced faith, and its powerful force. your simply clueless.
Bruce Kay

Gym climber
BC
Jun 12, 2013 - 06:59am PT
Infinite progress. Not perfection.


Well woo da thunk it. Turns out The Chief is a liberal progressive and not just some rank right winger after all! This thread is revelatory!
MikeL

climber
SANTA CLARA, CA
Jun 12, 2013 - 07:29am PT
Jan:

Oh, THAT enlightenment. Thought you meant the one that gets referred to most often here.

Thanks for the article / url. According to depth psychologists, in every age, man projects the state of the development of his consciousness onto the universe, and the reflections of the projection is then perceived as a verification of the projection. Insidious reification.

How difficult would it be to break that cycle / process? Is it possible to see things as they really are (whatever that might be)?


Almost everything tells us that we are small, insignificant, separate individuals--with obvious, reinforcing, and socially confirming perceptions--living in a vast and immensely complex external universe that arose from cyclic prime causes.

What a story. I suppose it could be stranger, but as stories go, it's highly inventive and perhaps overly complex. What genre would one put it in? Romance? Tragedy? Comedy? Irony? Science fiction? A slice of life? Multi-plot? Anti-plot?
MH2

climber
Jun 12, 2013 - 08:35am PT
What a story. I suppose it could be stranger, but as stories go, it's highly inventive and perhaps overly complex. What genre would one put it in? Romance? Tragedy? Comedy? Irony? Science fiction? A slice of life? Multi-plot? Anti-plot?


Non-fiction.
WBraun

climber
Jun 12, 2013 - 08:45am PT
splitter tells the world -- "you haven't experienced faith,"

Everyone has experienced it, everyone has it within them naturally.

The base jumper has faith he will not die.

It's the natural domain of all humanity .....
Bruce Kay

Gym climber
BC
Jun 12, 2013 - 08:52am PT
The base jumper has faith he will not die.

Braun is right as usual. He trusts his skill. He trusts the manufacturer of the wing. He trusts that what he percieves to be a 1000 foot cliff is indeed a 1000 foot cliff.

Trust (faith) is earned. It is earned by testing.

testing (earning) is science.
MikeL

climber
SANTA CLARA, CA
Jun 12, 2013 - 09:14am PT
MH2:

I don't think I've met anyone who is as good as you are at providing responses that circumvent questions. It makes it difficult to take you seriously. Perhaps that's your intention. That's why I've said, "it doesn't matter." Taking potshots from the bleachers is cheap and for the rabble. It's cute but not substantive or responsive.

Non-fiction is not a genre of story in any literary sense. (See Northrup Frye, Robert McKee, Lalos Egri, Mieke Bal, Wayne C. Booth, Gerald Prince, Benjamin Chatman, Gerard Genette.)
MH2

climber
Jun 12, 2013 - 09:43am PT
MikeL,

You asked a question. I went a little outside the frame you presented to answer it.
Largo

Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
Jun 12, 2013 - 09:58am PT
Craig, there's no merit in arguing the same thing over and over. It's like two bald guys fighting over a comb. Where you get hung up is that you don't believe there are realms where discursive reasoning will find no traction. Or put differently, you do not belive that discursive reasoning has any limits. Therefor you keep demaning discursive "proof" for that which doesn't exist. Here is where you lose your way. Instead of understanding that no discursive proof is forthcoing because none can exist in these realms - at least as you'd like it - you don't acknowledge the shortcomings of the discursive, rather you call said realms imaginary for lack of what was never there in the first place: discursive or "graspable" data. You can wait for another million years and there sill won't be discursive data streaming out of emptiness any more than a bunch of figurs will describe your wife. There are limits to any mode of inquiry. You simply don't believe that this is so per the discursive. We all understand that you believe this with all your heat and soul. And if you have made all the progress you like in spiritual terrain by that method, best to you. Share the wealth. But demading what none of us are saying is there ("subjective equations") betrays a kind of cognitive loop that is almost painfuol to watch.

If you want to understand why the discursive is limited, I touched on it in my discussion about how awaress - narrow and wide - works when we are discursively working through something. I tried to make that clear but maybe it wasn't. It's all easily verifiable if you take the time to find out for yourself. There's no eforrt to try and snow you here with juju LOL.

JL
MikeL

climber
SANTA CLARA, CA
Jun 12, 2013 - 11:01am PT
Going outside of story ("non-fiction") is far more than "a little outside the frame," MH2. It's categorically outside; hence, irrelevant.

On the other hand, you might be saying that science is as much of a story as any other piece of fiction.

I'd agree. That would make science fiction.
splitter

Trad climber
SoCal Hodad, surfing the galactic plane
Jun 12, 2013 - 11:01am PT
WB - Everyone has experienced it, everyone has it within them naturally.
but, not everyone activates it. and i was talking specifically about spiritual faith (what The Chief was also alluding to).

it doesn't take much faith to walk or drive across most bridges. it does take faith, though. faith that it won't collapse, although they sometimes do.

it also takes faith, or requires that you exercise the initial spiritual faith, that God is real. i'm talking about the God of the Gospels. He will reveal Himself to anyone that does.
MH2

climber
Jun 12, 2013 - 11:32am PT
Going outside of story ("non-fiction") is far more than "a little outside the frame," MH2. It's categorically outside; hence, irrelevant.


You can find it all in one library, MikeL.
BLUEBLOCR

Social climber
joshua tree
Jun 12, 2013 - 11:58am PT
Hey Splitter!
This is where we met around this time last year. Wasn't it? Faith:
'Cept, I was talking about go'in out in the morning and having faith that my old truck was going to start..

I've certainly added to my measure by participating in this thread.
splitter

Trad climber
SoCal Hodad, surfing the galactic plane
Jun 12, 2013 - 12:16pm PT
^ Kudos, bro!

Hebrews 11 (the faith chapter).

Norton

Social climber
the Wastelands
Jun 12, 2013 - 12:30pm PT

"Comfort the afflicted, and afflict the comfortable"

John
8:22:50
Messages 15621 - 15640 of total 22697 in this topic << First  |  < Previous  |  Show All  |  Next >  |  Last >>
Return to Forum List
Post a Reply
 
Our Guidebooks
Check 'em out!
SuperTopo Guidebooks


Try a free sample topo!

 
SuperTopo on the Web

Review Categories
Recent Route Beta
Recent Gear Reviews