Politics, God and Religion vs. Science

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BLUEBLOCR

Social climber
joshua tree
Jul 14, 2013 - 05:53pm PT
Ok base

1) Do you believe in evolution?

2) If no, is it because of a conflict with scripture, which is infallible?

3) Do you believe that the Earth is 4.6 million years old?

You go first. Besides the planet, is ur belief that man and all animals grew out of a plant?
Is this the kind of evolution ur talking about?


Earth is 4.6 bill yro? Well if this is the age of the planet. And u say the universe is 15 bill.
Are you saying the planet was born or created 4.6 bill ago?

With all this do you prescribe to the big bang theory?
Ward Trotter

Trad climber
Jul 14, 2013 - 06:02pm PT
Post these numerous groups, OK?

I did not say 'groups ' I said 'proponents'

Lets start with some quotes, from the ol' groove yard of science

All matter originates and exists only by virtue of a force... We must assume behind this force the existence of a conscious and intelligent Mind. This Mind is the matrix of all matter.
Max Planck


You might remember Planck from the story on QM

Einstein:

The scientist is possessed by the sense of universal causation....His religious feeling takes the form of a rapturous amazement at the harmony of natural law, which reveals an INTELLIGENCE of such superiority that, compared with it, all the systematic thinking and acting of human beings is an utterly insignificant reflection. This feeling is the guiding principle of his life and work, in so far as he succeeds in keeping himself from the shackles of selfish desire

I could go on but you get the drift. Don't make me work too hard on a Sunday.lol

Modern proponents of ID who approach the possibility from a scientific perspective are growing in recent years , they are too numerous to mention.

I provided a link to Stephen Meyers work above.
He has become a sort of Dawkins of ID .

Evolution happened. Its evidence is overwhelming in the fossil record. The only way to turn that around is to say that God placed a bunch of fossil evidence just to mess with the minds of paleontologists.

I never suggested any of those things.
The mere fact that evolution occurred is not an argument in and of itself against ID, broadly defined.
Evolutionary science is certainly an argument against traditional religious creationism.
cintune

climber
The Utility Muffin Research Kitchen
Jul 14, 2013 - 06:55pm PT
Either that or you are still harboring a psychologically -driven grudge against ol' Aunt Martha who dragged you by your ear to church every week, long ago.

Haha, yeah, that must be it. I had to go to church for a while when I was little, but it was cool because I also had to wear a suit, and if I turned my jacket collar up I thought I looked like Bela Lugosi.

It was sort of a trade off.

And the church was Russian Orthodox, with big scary Rasputin priests, LOTS of incense, awesome gold-leaf iconography plastered all over the place, and everything done in Russian, which is a beautiful language even if you have no idea what they're singing.

High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Potemkin Village
Jul 14, 2013 - 08:21pm PT
Here, a practical real-world case where science and politics intersect...



The proposal is to clone a mammoth, the question is: should we do it? My vote: Yes. At least for starters. Justifications: It would verify, directly or indirectly, a lot of our theory relating to genetics, microbiology and evolution. It would indubitably expand our knowledge bases in these and related disciplines further. It would further demonstrate to the naysayers, poo-poohers and deniers of science that science isn't just another ideological or political institution or invention (as if the world really needed more evidence). Later, if cloning ever posed problems, e.g., some social problem, it could then be regulated - and the human species once again could have the opportunity to show its art, its skill, on the "slippery slope" that the naysayers, alarmists and deniers (or tourons) all too eagerly like to throw in its face as "crazy" or "irresponsible."

As the world is (slowly in fits and starts) coming around to the realizations that there is indeed NO absolute celestial Law Giver to tell us what to do, the good and bad of it, and there really is no such thing as "It's playing God" that's anything more than vain, it really IS up to us. We are on our own, we are free solo, and we are the deciders. My vote on this one, on cloning at least a few individuals of the past is yes, let's clone. For educational purposes first and foremost.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2013/jul/14/wooly-mammoth-extinct-cloning-dna?INTCMP=SRCH

Interesting aside: "We have found as many mammoths in the past five years as we did in the previous 50, partly because global warming is melting the Siberian permafrost..."

jstan, it would be interesting to get Craig Venter's take. My sense of it is that he would NOT be so pessimistic on the chances of success - as the two scientists in aforementioned piece.
BLUEBLOCR

Social climber
joshua tree
Jul 14, 2013 - 09:06pm PT
You want to clone a mammoth? Go for it!
If US scientist are unable to do it because of politics I'm sure they could go to the phillipines or some where like that and do it. Heck why not go to India and clone some cows for more food!

Interesting thought, if you clone a mammoth from his bones, is he going resume where his brain left off when he died. And would be have the same personality?

Hey don't stop there, why ur at it could you clone my dead grandma?
splitter

Trad climber
SoCal Hodad, surfing the galactic plane
Jul 14, 2013 - 10:23pm PT
BASE104

you misunderstood the point i made in regards to my "drowning" experience at 7 years old. the point was, i hadn't learned my lesson, in regards to staying away from rivers/deep water. i mean, there i was again, down by the docks of a river where i could hve easily fell in. i didn't now how to swim, i should have known better (although still only seven). like i said, we were having a lot of fun. my point was, that it was the whipping i got that detered me from continuing to go with my friends down to the river. i was already disobeying my father by doing so. as far as being dead, once again, i wasn't talking about God miraculously saving me that day. the last thing i recall was my cousin rowing his boat out to rescue me, and he was a good 35-40 yards away. obviously wasn't going to get to me in time since i was about to go under. i woke up a couple hours later on my grandmothers couch. i wasn't saying anything about God, just that i should hve learned to stay away from rivers, since i was "sick as a dog" for a good week afterwards.

my reference to God chastising His children (Christians) had nothing to do with my story. my father chastised me for going down by the rivers edge (after having warned me not to ever do so again). and it worked. God chastises believers, sooner or later, when we stray. He does it for the same reason my father did, because He loves us. i wasn't even a Christian then, became a Christian shortly after i turned 8 years old.
Dr. F.

Boulder climber
SoCal
Topic Author's Reply - Jul 14, 2013 - 10:25pm PT
HFCS should just STFU with all his judgmental crappolla
He despises everyone of us, and has not a good word to say about anything here on ST.

HFCS stick to the topic, not the people behind the posts


and yes, we should clone a Mammoth
WBraun

climber
Jul 14, 2013 - 10:34pm PT
LOL .....
BLUEBLOCR

Social climber
joshua tree
Jul 14, 2013 - 10:39pm PT
Hear Hear Drf
I posted something earlier but I deleted it because I wanna be nice.
But he really doesn't look very deep into subjects..

What do ya think Drf, where would the mammoths mind come from?
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Potemkin Village
Jul 14, 2013 - 11:02pm PT
Ah, you want some salve, boys, for your butt-hurt?
Dr. F.

Boulder climber
SoCal
Topic Author's Reply - Jul 14, 2013 - 11:04pm PT
What do ya think Drf, where would the mammoths mind come from?
It comes from the mammoth DNA that is cloned

just like your mind, it came from your fertilized egg

plant seeds can last millions of years in stasis
When it germinates, it has not concept of the time lost from the time it was produced
WBraun

climber
Jul 14, 2013 - 11:06pm PT
HFCS -- No one is butt hurt here but you.

You're always butt hurt over anything here except your 21'st century delusion.

Take a vacation, eat some ice cream, and freeze your brain.

You need one ......
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Potemkin Village
Jul 14, 2013 - 11:14pm PT
A vacation? Can't argue with that. I need one from this confederacy.

What an embarrassment.
BLUEBLOCR

Social climber
joshua tree
Jul 15, 2013 - 12:30am PT

just like your mind, it came from your fertilized egg

Fertilized egg? As in genetics? Do you think the funny bone is genetic?
I was born kinda the class clown. But for some like Jstan are very stern.

Is character and personality born out of genetics. Or made in the brain?
Or do they come from somewhere else?

Do you think if they cloned fructose in 100 yrs he would still be an ahole?
jgill

Boulder climber
Colorado
Jul 15, 2013 - 01:49pm PT
But for some like Jstan are very stern



;>)
Dr. F.

Boulder climber
SoCal
Topic Author's Reply - Jul 15, 2013 - 02:21pm PT
The DNA builds the brain as instructed, some personality traits are learned, some are innate.
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Potemkin Village
Jul 15, 2013 - 02:27pm PT
It would also be nice to be able to clone dodos...

... I mean the Raphus cucullatus kind (of Mauritius)... not the Dr. F kind.
go-B

climber
Hebrews 1:3
Jul 15, 2013 - 06:15pm PT
Wa-da-u-know I'm hungry again!

Quit cloning around and turn to Jesus and be saved!...

photo not found
Missing photo ID#311127

I want to have the memory of an Elephant, and keep in mind the loving tender mercies of God and the loving kindnesses of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and to sing His praises!

photo not found
Missing photo ID#311128

Amazing Grace, how sweet the sound,
That saved a wretch like me....
I once was lost but now am found,
Was blind, but now, I see.

T'was Grace that taught...
my heart to fear.
And Grace, my fears relieved.
How precious did that Grace appear...
the hour I first believed.

Through many dangers, toils and snares...
we have already come.
T'was Grace that brought us safe thus far...
and Grace will lead us home.

The Lord has promised good to me...
His word my hope secures.
He will my shield and portion be...
as long as life endures.

When we've been here ten thousand years...
bright shining as the sun.
We've no less days to sing God's praise...
then when we've first begun.

Amazing Grace, how sweet the sound,
That saved a wretch like me....
I once was lost but now am found,
Was blind, but now, I see.

photo not found
Missing photo ID#311123
BLUEBLOCR

Social climber
joshua tree
Jul 15, 2013 - 07:34pm PT
^^^^^^^^^^YEAAAAAAA!

I hope you never become to full

Besides you have a reputation to uphold around here
BLUEBLOCR

Social climber
joshua tree
Jul 15, 2013 - 09:59pm PT
Boy, emotions sure ruined this thread!?!?!

Maybe I should start a new one. Emotions V The World
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