Politics, God and Religion vs. Science

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go-B

climber
Hebrews 1:3
May 30, 2013 - 06:22am PT
Hebrews 9:24 For Christ did not enter a holy place made with hands, a mere copy of the true one, but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us; 25 nor was it that He would offer Himself often, as the high priest enters the holy place year by year with blood that is not his own. 26 Otherwise, He would have needed to suffer often since the foundation of the world; but now once at the consummation of the ages He has been manifested to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself. 27 And inasmuch as it is appointed for men to die once and after this comes judgment, 28 so Christ also, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, will appear a second time for salvation without reference to sin, to those who eagerly await Him.

...when I go before God at the judgment (gulp) and I am asked why I should be let into Heaven?
I'm going to look over to Jesus and say to God, "I'm with Him"!

I hope YOU are counted with the many!

(jogill I like your dog!)
glanton

Social climber
utopia
May 30, 2013 - 06:34am PT
BRAINS!!!!!!!!

Credit: glanton


NEED FRESH BRAINS!!!!!
splitter

Trad climber
SoCal Hodad, surfing the galactic plane
May 30, 2013 - 06:37am PT
who's that ^ glanton? yer ex boyfriend, or current lover, significant other (or maybe ya live in one of 13 or so states and ya got married, eh)? yer, daddy? yer, brother? ya seem to fond of him, or at least post his (i think it's a dude, maybe not) pic every so often. don't recognize the dude, and i was just wondering...
glanton

Social climber
utopia
May 30, 2013 - 06:48am PT
He's the guy in the middle of this dining scene.

Credit: glanton

FRESH BRAINS!!!!!!!
dirtbag

climber
May 30, 2013 - 07:21am PT
Jesus rose from the dead. He must've been a zombie.
Largo

Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
May 30, 2013 - 08:37am PT
Cintuine wrote: . . . except in the cases of null and infinite sets.

Math is not my strong suite - I know enough to be dangerous and wrong, but my sense of it is that you're using it in the sense of axiomatic set theory,
i.e. the axioms of Zermelo–Fraenkel set theory, with the focus on content (real numbers, etc.) Also, yo don't "turn off " your discursive mind at night. Your brain stem shuts you down for some sleep. Try doing so without going to sleep and report back here. Note that not a single person on this list has ever done anything but argue and supply reasons to avoid stepping out of the discursive mind, even for a moment. Does that not strike you as strange.

And persecution complex? Smoke another bowl, dood. You be on the wrong planet lol.

If you want to get a feel for the terrain, listen to this and sense into it. From 007, Skyfall. Thomans Newman is a genius IMO.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=geRytruvEuo

JL
MH2

climber
May 30, 2013 - 08:56am PT

Of course I was talking about the degress to which our awareness is unfettered by the intrusions of thoughts, feelings, senstions, and so on, which is MY perspective, no his.


My concern is that you talk about awareness in a way that makes it sound like a measurable quantity. Same goes for consciousness, presence, and mindfulness. It looks like the fetters of scientism.




So I was trying to find out if the Pacific Northwest Native Americans swam. There are a lot of islands in these parts and modern swimmers go from island to island. The Coast Salish went places by canoe, but did they swim? I don't know, yet, but I found that South American natives did and that they showed Europeans the front crawl.

I also found that Brazil has passed New Guinea in having the most uncontacted tribes.

cliffhanger

Trad climber
California
May 30, 2013 - 09:54am PT


http://apod.nasa.gov/apod/ap130529.html
Largo

Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
May 30, 2013 - 05:16pm PT
My concern is that you talk about awareness in a way that makes it sound like a measurable quantity. Same goes for consciousness, presence, and mindfulness. It looks like the fetters of scientism.


I feel a little guilty about just lobbing thoughts out there about this stuff but I just don't have the time now to do anything but hit and miss.

Talking about consciousness in the round is tricky. It is basically a boundless field that is nothing at all, meaning it is "empty," devoid of content. (http://www.thelawofphysics.com/table-of-contents/infinity);

The moment our consciousness, or more accurately, our awareness, narrow focuses on ANYTHING, meaning when our minds get hold of some thing, big or small, our mental field tends to take the shape and dimensions of that "person, place or thing." Our awareness is the most powerful aspect of consciousness and some would say source all forms, since the emptiness of mind is the emptiness of infinity itself.

What that means - and no one is saying these are easy concepts for the rational mind to wrangle - is that consciousness, presence, and mindfulness are measurable or have somewhat appreciable contours and limits according to what's on our minds. Meaning our awareness somewhat collapses to the relative size of the content. Relative meaning we still see and hear and smell things beyond our immediate focus, but they are background or "field," not figure.

When we start quieting down and detaching from the people, places and things in our mind, and are consciously present with that experience, consciousness starts to stretch out toward the infinite or toward its true nature of being infinite/no thing/empty, even of mirrors.

So you see, the consciousness process is not a matter of gaining some huge cognitive piece of enlightenment, some last great nugget of God energy, rather it is cutting our ties to the content of consciousness, and returning to our native state of illumination, which is not achieved, but is there all along, but tends to be buried under the white noise of 10,000 things, especially the discursive mind.

JL
WBraun

climber
May 30, 2013 - 05:30pm PT
MH2

These are the real deal in Brazil.

No white man is allowed there.

We paid the Brazilian govt. $25,000 to go there when I worked on IMAX "AMAZON"


cintune

climber
The Utility Muffin Research Kitchen
May 30, 2013 - 05:38pm PT
cutting our ties to the content of consciousness

Yes, sleep does a really good job of that already.

The thing about the discursive mind and the 10,000 things is... they're fun. Now obviously that betrays a hopelessly sophomoric value system, so I'll save you the time of pointing that out, but I just don't get a fun vibe from Zen, all that vacuous serene austerity and the whacks on the head and so on.

Really nice architecture, though, gotta give it that.

And so back to the idea that there's a reason it's traditionally been non-proselytizing: those who have a hankering for it, for whatever deeply personal reasons, find it, and to them, it's a good time. But if the idea of deliberately, albeit temporarily, cutting our ties to the content of consciousness isn't a big turn-on from the get-go, well, it's gonna be a hard sell. Like, I have no interest in trying heroin either, though I've heard some very good things about it.

Hey, this is going on right now, probably be a podcast later:

http://blogs.scientificamerican.com/talking-back/2013/05/30/the-puzzle-of-consciousness-live-stream-tonight-8-pm/
Don Paul

Big Wall climber
Colombia, South America
May 30, 2013 - 08:08pm PT
Geez Werner, the least you could do is take off your shirt for the picture.
Psilocyborg

climber
May 30, 2013 - 08:21pm PT
WB...how long were you there? Would you care to describe your experience?
jogill

climber
Colorado
May 30, 2013 - 08:51pm PT
. . . except in the cases of null and infinite sets

Null set is pretty easy: number of elements = 0. Many infinite sets are "quantifiable" in a certain sense, also. The rational numbers have the same "cardinality" as the counting numbers, etc. The trick is to find a one-to-one correspondence between elements of one set with those of the other. For example, if you start listing the rationals <= 1 thusly: 1, 1/2, 1/3,2/3,1/4,3/4, . . . deleting repetitions, the listing provides the correspondence.

There are areas of mathematics, however, that do not involve an excess of "quantification", such as the various subdisciplines of topology, which deal with concepts like "open sets","continuous transformations", etc.

Now, back to the never-ending struggle between the forces of qualia vs the number crunchers . . .

;>)
MH2

climber
May 30, 2013 - 08:54pm PT
WERNER!!!


Can't you keep a secret??!



Probably you can. Great picture and no doubt quite an experience.




Good stuff, JL.
Largo

Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
May 30, 2013 - 09:14pm PT

And so back to the idea that there's a reason it's traditionally been non-proselytizing: those who have a hankering for it, for whatever deeply personal reasons, find it, and to them, it's a good time.



Most valid esoteric paths are non-proselytizing, based on attraction, not promotion. the curious thing is that you hae no idea what you are in for and to be sure, whaever you were hankering for at the outset is not what happens. A "good time" also biases you toward bad times, when the point is to get past wanting rality to be this or that way, and to surf the whole mo-fo as is. Nobody does this perfectly, but that's the idea. And it really goes beyond fun in 1,000 ways.

JL
jogill

climber
Colorado
May 30, 2013 - 09:15pm PT
. . . cutting our ties to the content of consciousness, and returning to our native state of illumination

Some might consider this a form of escapism - turning away from seemingly insurmountable problems in the real world, but I can imagine how the experience might actually better prepare one for those struggles.
go-B

climber
Hebrews 1:3
May 31, 2013 - 06:32am PT
Check it out...

2 Corinthians 5:17 Therefore if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creature; the old things passed away; behold, new things have come. 18 Now all these things are from God, who reconciled us to Himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation, 19 namely, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and He has committed to us the word of reconciliation.
20 Therefore, we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God were making an appeal through us; we beg you on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God. 21 He made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.


Acts 4:12 And there is salvation in no one else; for there is no other name under heaven that has been given among men by which we must be saved.”

...Thank God He at least gave us one name!

glanton

Social climber
utopia
May 31, 2013 - 06:42am PT
Credit: glanton
splitter

Trad climber
SoCal Hodad, surfing the galactic plane
May 31, 2013 - 07:47am PT
dirtbag - jesus rose from the dead, he must have been a zombie.

Thanks for clearing me up on that, bro. (what the zombie pic was in reference to). Seriously, always wondered...now i get it. :)

edit: well, glantons post wudda explained it, but read dirtbags first, so responded to it before i saw this ^ one.

sad that you guys feel that way. i could tell some "experience" stories, that would probably blow anybodies mind (if they believed them). and He has prohecied through me on at least a half dozen times and they have all come to pass. i have told of a few on here ST. like the time He told me about my cousins baby going to pass away in 3 days when i was 13 years old (only sad one/dark one) and a few others. problem is, no one believes me i guess. whatever.

EDIT: you don't think that if the bible and jesus, etc really is true that he wouldn't reveal Himself to His disciples? why do you think we say it is an relationship and not a religion? you don't have a clue of some of the things he has done in my life. hint, "Everything is possible with God."

Don Paul - Signor, i didn't say that i was an "Prophet of God." I beleive that came to an end with John the Baptist, John the Apostle, etc! But, there will be one more "before the great and terrible day of the Lord." (or however it is stated). it says so in various verses in the OT & NT. anyway, there are many Christians that have revelatory experiences. i have heard His audible voice on a number times (like i said) probably a lot more than the average person. i have asked various pastors and they say although it is rather unusual, it happens...His call. I wouldn't even think about all the things he has showed me. because the few things i have already, haven't even gotten one response on many occasions. and others were riddled with doubt. why share something much more amazing, eh? I know His voice, I also know His presence. just like you would know your mothers and fathers (if you new them, not everyone has) even more so.
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