Politics, God and Religion vs. Science

Search
Go

Discussion Topic

Return to Forum List
Post a Reply
Messages 14621 - 14640 of total 23011 in this topic << First  |  < Previous  |  Show All  |  Next >  |  Last >>
Dr. F.

Big Wall climber
SoCal
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 24, 2013 - 08:22pm PT
Wrong thread you moron

I understand how things work, too bad you don't
How does the military work???
Is it on a Gov. subsidy??
How about education, the Highway system, The Justice system??
How do they get their funding???

Have you ever thought things through to the end? No, try it sometime
WBraun

climber
Apr 24, 2013 - 08:23pm PT
LOL Hahahaha
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Apr 24, 2013 - 08:24pm PT
So now I have to go to a thread that Nazis like you specify? Guide me to the proper oven...
Dr. F.

Big Wall climber
SoCal
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 24, 2013 - 08:30pm PT
We need a pallet cleaning after the evil that stopped by
Credit: Dr. F.
Dr. F.

Big Wall climber
SoCal
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 24, 2013 - 08:32pm PT
Credit: Dr. F.
phewwwww..
I feel a little better now
jstan

climber
Apr 24, 2013 - 08:55pm PT
Relax Craig. Just send Bluring's name in to the 12,000 Asian women featured in the masthead advertisement. He won't have any time after that.
MH2

climber
Apr 24, 2013 - 09:35pm PT
Base, you can't search for no-thing. That's like a fish searching for water.


?

Here is a fish searching for water.


MikeL

climber
SANTA CLARA, CA
Apr 25, 2013 - 08:07am PT
Happiness is a code word?

Depending upon who you talk to, it seems to be.

Some folks are going to say it's biological markers or serotonin levels (neurobiologists), economic material wealth (economists), gross national happiness (not GNP), meaning in life, living a democratic life, the contentment of work (Karma yoga) or living a life of virtue (Socrates), utility levels (Bentham's utilitarianism), some form of intoxication (Confucius), the beatific vision of God (Aquinas), freedom from suffering or an experience of loving kindness and compassion (Buddhists), engagement (Seligman), flow (Csikszentmihalyi), accomplishments (Mazlow, Campbell), amusement, etc.

Everyone gets to pick their own idea of happiness. Happiness is an ambiguous idea, and words are placeholders of not only those different ideas but also to people's worldviews of reality they believe they are living in. Anyway you slice it, happiness is a subjective state of being that arises out of one's sense of reality.

So then, what's core? Why, a pure state of subjective being itself, without limitations, without context, without objectives, without objects, without definition. Just being. Nothing more (there's that word again)--because there can be nothing less.
MikeL

climber
SANTA CLARA, CA
Apr 25, 2013 - 08:27am PT
The material body is the source of all misery ........


That's starts a bifurcation. One makes what seems like a minor distinction about some object, and before one realizes it, there arise opposites (like night and day, like misery and happiness, like objective and subjective). Polarities ("heads" and "tails" are part and parcel) seem like reasonably inchoate articulations of unity, but strong opposites create unnecessary and confusing dualities.

"Body and mind are correlated with misery and happiness?" Would you go for that?
MH2

climber
Apr 25, 2013 - 09:01am PT
One makes what seems like a minor distinction about some object, and before one realizes it, there arise opposites (like night and day,


I like to live in the early morning when the dew is on the grass and the light is growing.
BASE104

Social climber
An Oil Field
Apr 25, 2013 - 09:36am PT
I believe that I understand what was described as no-thing.

Just sit for a little while and try not to think. It is very difficult to do. I am talking about thoughts that appear as words, that chattering background noise that we all do on a constant basis.

So I tried to do this, and it is very difficult. I had to close my eyes and really concentrate on not concentrating, if that makes any sense. That, I suppose is the beginning of thought, or one end of a spectrum, which is what I have been saying for months.

Just take five minutes and try to not think about ANYTHING. I couldn't do it for very long at all.

The point of this needs to be pointed out now. I think it is a fair and honest question.

I would have to say that the most distinct case of no-thing is a general anesthetic. You wake up and think that only a second has passed. What has your noggin been doing for that time?
Don Paul

Big Wall climber
Colombia, South America
Apr 25, 2013 - 10:20am PT
You can probably do that for as long as you can hold your breath. You're trying to prevent your brain from functioning normally, it should be hard. In fact, your brain is multitasking all the time, with many simultaneous thoughts in the subconscious that you're not aware of. Proof is that when you can't remember something, like someone's name, hours later it will come to you, even though you had no idea your subconsious had been working on it all along.

No doubt you could get yourself into a weird mental state if you stopped conscious thoughts for a long time. So would holding your breath. I'm skeptical that it leads to enlightenment, "being here now" etc. The way to learn about the world, and about yourself, is to think.
jogill

climber
Colorado
Apr 25, 2013 - 01:29pm PT
Perhaps the quest for no-thing is like the sequence 1/n approaching 0. It never really gets there. Some people may have enhanced abilities in this endeavor. For example, for JL its like 1/(n*n). Still no ultimate cigar.


;>)
Largo

Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
Apr 25, 2013 - 02:03pm PT
Perhaps the quest for no-thing is like the sequence 1/n approaching 0. It never really gets there. Some people may have enhanced abilities in this endeavor. For example, for JL its like 1/(n*n). Still no ultimate cigar.


;>)


The main thing is that BASE is actually trying. The questions and observations that he raised are issues that many traditions have dealt with very comprehensibly for going on 2,500 years.

First point of interest is that attempting to shut off the mind is counterproductive and doesn't work. The trick is to disidentify with mental constructs, especially those with words attached. It's easiest to do with your eyes open. Eyes closed floods your mind with Alpha waves and is dream inducing. The idea is to stay crystal clear and sharp. You can start evaluating the experience after practicing for say ten years.

And John is right IME. Sometimes you can grasp quite a lot of the stogie but not all. As they say, the goal is spiritual progress, not spiritual perfection.

JL
BASE104

Social climber
An Oil Field
Apr 25, 2013 - 03:23pm PT
I typed that into my calculator and it blew up.
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Potemkin Village
Apr 25, 2013 - 05:19pm PT
I look forward to this one...
Cosmos: A Space Time Odyssey (2014)

An Ann Druyan produced sequel to Sagan's Cosmos (1980). Neil deGrasse Tyson to present.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cosmos:_A_Space-Time_Odyssey

This was first day of filming.
Jan

Mountain climber
Okinawa, Japan
Apr 25, 2013 - 05:34pm PT
No doubt you could get yourself into a weird mental state if you stopped conscious thoughts for a long time. So would holding your breath. I'm skeptical that it leads to enlightenment, "being here now" etc. The way to learn about the world, and about yourself, is to think.

I'm amazed that this view is still held 150 years after Freud rediscovered the unconscious (it was never lost in the East). The way to understand yourself is to look at your oldest memories and deepest emotions and those are not stored in the thinking, verbal part of your brain. There's a reason that both meditation schools and psychologists emphasize looking at one's dreams which come from the non verbal, symbolic part of the brain.

It's true that one way to understand the world and yourself is to think. However, a deeper way to understand both, is to access the deeper non verbal levels of your mind. That is done in silence. The first gives knowledge, while the deeper look if pursued long enough, gives wisdom.

Sleep enables us to store long term memories and refresh both body and mind. Thinking of nothing during meditation is even more efficient, but you'll never know unless you try it for some time.
Largo

Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
Apr 25, 2013 - 06:02pm PT
The way to learn about the world, and about yourself, is to think.

This statement is the wildest speculation, presented as a known fact. That's why it is disingenuous at best and dishonest at worst.

JL
cintune

climber
The Utility Muffin Research Kitchen
Apr 25, 2013 - 06:14pm PT
Yeah, or maybe it's just....





Obvious.
Norton

Social climber
the Wastelands
Apr 25, 2013 - 06:15pm PT
Largo said

This statement is the wildest speculation, presented as a known fact. That's why it is disingenuous at best and dishonest at worst.


well then the assumption is the opposite is then true

that the best way to learn about the world and yourself is NOT TO THINK

as in, a blank mind, with eyes open

what exactly is then "learned" by not thinking, at all, for a period of time?

or is this one of those things that everyone else gets and is lost on me?

Messages 14621 - 14640 of total 23011 in this topic << First  |  < Previous  |  Show All  |  Next >  |  Last >>
Return to Forum List
Post a Reply
 
Our Guidebooks
Check 'em out!
SuperTopo Guidebooks


Try a free sample topo!

 
SuperTopo on the Web

Review Categories
Recent Route Beta
Recent Gear Reviews