Politics, God and Religion vs. Science

Search
Go

Discussion Topic

Return to Forum List
Post a Reply
Messages 14501 - 14520 of total 23023 in this topic << First  |  < Previous  |  Show All  |  Next >  |  Last >>
WBraun

climber
Apr 18, 2013 - 10:23pm PT
Clocks are made by Men.

But God is Time itself .......
MH2

climber
Apr 19, 2013 - 08:02am PT
Clocks are made by Men.


Mine isn't.

Uh-oh, it's later than I thought.

MikeL

climber
SANTA CLARA, CA
Apr 19, 2013 - 11:42am PT
MH2:

Kandel's studies concerned the physiological basis of memory in simple animals' brains and is clearly objectivist.

I have not been clear. Apparently, we have engineered another complete disconnect in our dialogue.

I asked questions about your experience of memories. Your response might suggest to me that you don't care or think it meaningful to discuss your subjective experience of memories. You might view memories as biochemical and physical events.

I cannot help but wonder how you interpret memories of your mother, your lover, climbing El Cap, or any other thing that one might think has human significance to you. You don't think, "uh, there goes another electrical impulse" when you think about your mother, do you?
Ward Trotter

Trad climber
Apr 19, 2013 - 12:30pm PT
I was thinking about a memorial service I recently attended for a gentleman who was almost completely forgotten while he was still alive. The person who arranged the service is a religious believer. The pastor never knew the deceased but gave a wonderful simple talk, and sang. Now that the deceased was with Our Lord the Redeemer he was no longer alone. That was clearly a comforting thought to the woman who had been his only visitor in his last years and stayed with him as he died.

A well-stitched together paragraph.
cintune

climber
The Utility Muffin Research Kitchen
Apr 19, 2013 - 04:21pm PT
http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/2013/apr/18/surgeon-prescribes-brian-eno-to-patients

Hospital installs room designed by godfather of ambient music after doctor observes calming effects on mother-in-law
jogill

climber
Colorado
Apr 19, 2013 - 06:13pm PT
https://www.kirkusreviews.com/book-reviews/anthony-towne/excerpts-from-the-diaries-of-the-late-god/


???
cintune

climber
The Utility Muffin Research Kitchen
Apr 19, 2013 - 06:46pm PT
MH2

climber
Apr 19, 2013 - 07:00pm PT
Call up a memory. What is it? What's it made of? Where does it reside? Where did it come from, and where did it go when it was no longer around?


Those sounded like questions about the physical nature of memory, not memory as we experience it. I'll try again.

I'll call up a memory. Yesterday I had baked potato for supper. It is off-white and brown with skin and smells of pepper, butter, lemon, salt, and potato. It tastes salty and lemony. It is made of potato, etc. It resides in my memory, it came from my memory, and - let me check - yes, it went back to my memory when it was no longer around.
BLUEBLOCR

Social climber
joshua tree
Apr 19, 2013 - 07:29pm PT
I'll call up a memory. Yesterday I had baked potato for supper. It is off-white and brown with skin and smells of pepper, butter, lemon, salt, and potato. It tastes salty and lemony. It is made of potato, etc. It resides in my memory, it came from my memory, and - let me check - yes, it went back to my memory when it was no longer around.

OK, so if somebody says "yesterday" or "potato"; is your first inspiration of that memory brought on by the technical aspects of that potato; or is the memory brought on from your emotional response from making and tasting that said potato?



Edit: If a touron asked me if I climbed, instantly my conscious would rise with a plathora of
emotions, Way before my brain would call out a technical "YES"
MikeL

climber
SANTA CLARA, CA
Apr 19, 2013 - 07:47pm PT
You don't think, "uh, there goes another electrical impulse" when you think about your mother, do you?

Me, on the other hand . . . I might think of my mother differently when a memory comes up. When I actually see my mother, I might see her as a mirage. A wonderfully warm mirage. A mirage I love so very dearly. A very wise mirage.



EDIT: And there is a great example of the differences in views.
MH2

climber
Apr 19, 2013 - 07:57pm PT
You are comparing your mother to my baked potatoes?
BLUEBLOCR

Social climber
joshua tree
Apr 19, 2013 - 08:44pm PT

I might think of my mother differently when a memory comes up. When I actually see my mother, I might see her as a mirage. A wonderfully warm mirage. A mirage I love so very dearly. A very wise mirage.

This is what I meant by, " our emotions pinpoint our experiences on a timeline".

When we are asked about a potato, doesnt our first reaction come from wether we Love them or Hate them?


Exit: I'm going to go make some frenchfries.
Dr. F.

Big Wall climber
SoCal
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 20, 2013 - 07:44am PT
[url=[/url" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://s616.photobucket.com/user/DoctorF-/media/IMG_4605.jpg.html][/url]

I'm trying to use photobucket
for better photo quality, but I'm doing something wrong
any tips?
BASE104

Social climber
An Oil Field
Apr 20, 2013 - 08:21am PT
I think that refuting all science is silly. The Universe is far larger than just us. Every time we look some place we find incredibly beautiful things.

If you learn to turn your mind inward, you will miss it. This of course begs the question of, "If you don't turn your mind inward, you will miss it."

For me, I am happy to learn or read of, new discoveries. I am also very curious about what Mike is talking about. Turning your mind inward to experience the mind.

I do not in any way refute this picture. Many of you are familiar with the Hubble Deep and Ultra Deep field pictures.

They looked at a tiny spot in the sky where nothing had been observed with smaller telescopes. Since it was so faint, they continuously observed this spot for ten consecutive days. From Wiki it is a spot the size of a tennis ball at 100 yards.

The wiki page is freaking amazing. Read this page if you are interested in the Universe:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hubble_Deep_Field

So is this real or not?

This is what happens when you just look.
This is what happens when you just look.
Credit: BASE104
BASE104

Social climber
An Oil Field
Apr 20, 2013 - 08:42am PT
Geometry also has a lot of cool things.

I showed my son how to make a Mobius Strip when he was about five years old. He then showed all of his teachers. That excited him. Just take a strip of paper, turn one end over 180 degrees and tape the ends together. Then follow your finger around the surface and you will realize that the object has only one surface. Very simple and very cool.

Following that is a Klein Bottle. Try this stuff in Euclidian Space and see where you go. While you are at it, think about the sheer thought that it took to come up with this stuff. These manifolds are all equations.

Jump in here JStan and Gill. It has been 25 years since I looked at this. If I ever looked at this stuff...We have come a long way since the stone age.

Mobius strip
Mobius strip
Credit: BASE104

Klein Bottle
Klein Bottle
Credit: BASE104

WBraun

climber
Apr 20, 2013 - 08:55am PT
Base104 -- "I think that refuting all science is silly."

This is exactly what modern science does all the time in the form scientism.

Scientism is a term used, usually pejoratively, to refer to belief in the universal applicability of the scientific method and approach,
and the view that empirical science constitutes the most authoritative worldview or most valuable part of human learning to the exclusion of other viewpoints.

WBraun

climber
Apr 20, 2013 - 09:36am PT
when astronomers thought that the Milky Way was all there was

No that was "Modern astronomers"

Hubble is finding what was always known before Modern astronomy.

locker

Social climber
Some Rehab in Bolivia
Apr 20, 2013 - 10:09am PT


" I might think of my mother differently when a mammary comes up."...




WBraun

climber
Apr 20, 2013 - 10:12am PT
Using an disingenuous scientific method is unworthy of you .....
Largo

Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
Apr 20, 2013 - 10:44am PT
The deep objective, the deep subjective. Both are very much apart of our perceived existence. And also the sense that this is only a practical deconstruction of whatever the "real" thing is, which tends to escape our attempts of explanation. Though that escape path gets narrower and narrower, it is never going to be cut off.


Good post, IMO. I have been driving a similar angle for awhile here - that the "objective" is in fact a kind of Hilbert Space, workable metaphor for organizing the "real," undifferentiated flux, for human consumption and manipulation. The idea that a real, objective material world exists out there that is self-same, even in it's constant morphing, is in fact a anthropomorphic concept start to finish. Remove the observer from the stage play and there goes all models and maps for which the brain organized "reality" for its own purposes and physical survival. The reason why a distinct threshold between objective and subjective will never be found is that there isn't one. It's seamless, contained in the one, like heads and tails on a penny.

JL
Messages 14501 - 14520 of total 23023 in this topic << First  |  < Previous  |  Show All  |  Next >  |  Last >>
Return to Forum List
Post a Reply
 
Our Guidebooks
Check 'em out!
SuperTopo Guidebooks


Try a free sample topo!

 
SuperTopo on the Web

Review Categories
Recent Route Beta
Recent Gear Reviews