Politics, God and Religion vs. Science

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BLUEBLOCR

Social climber
joshua tree
Apr 7, 2013 - 06:25pm PT
Drf
(and like everyone, they will get through no matter what they do), no matter what God they say they believe in,

You are correct when referring to newborns. And even to anyone who has never heard the name Jesus. But once you have heard the name Jesus and His directness to God. It is
YOUR responsibility to understand.


Edit:
Ward, You should post on the Republican thread

Yea Ward!... But if ur look'in for life everlasting, hang out
Dr. F.

Big Wall climber
SoCal
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 7, 2013 - 06:31pm PT
Me, along with several Billion others have heard the name Jesus
and it didn't do a thing for us, and no matter how hard we try to believe in Jesus, nothing will change for us.

apparently only some people are gullible enough for the name Jesus to have an effect, I think some study has been able to pinpoint the exact percentage of any population of humans that have that attribute, they will believe in Jesus, Santa Claus, or Zeus, just tell them which God (any of the 1000s) is in charge, and that's all they need to know.


and no, I am not referring to newborns
BLUEBLOCR

Social climber
joshua tree
Apr 7, 2013 - 06:44pm PT
attribute
Nope. It's the altitude of ur attitude¡
Dr. F.

Big Wall climber
SoCal
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 7, 2013 - 08:02pm PT
Weekend Flowers
Blossfeldia subterraniae
Credit: Dr. F.
Ward Trotter

Trad climber
Apr 7, 2013 - 08:21pm PT
Are you F-ing crazy, No, there is no switch that someone can flick and turn the Nation into a complete socialism nor communism

It will always be the same, mainly Capitalism with the Commons provided by mostly socialism, and that is where the crux lies
Republicans want to privatise the commons to make money on it, even though they say it won't cost more, it is a proven fact that It will cost more.

Democrats and liberals want a strong Gov. that socializes the commons so they are less expensive, safer, and accountable through elections.

Just like we will never become a Christian Nation and governed by biblical law, nor Sharia law, nor communism,
what we are really fighting is the constantly growing Fascism, where the right wing players in the Government are in for the money, and Government is all about making money, and about keeping the people in fear for their low paying jobs.. blah blah blah

I won't get into a prolonged political discussion, on this thread or any other thread on this forum. I do that on political debate forums elsewhere.
Your comments I have cited above would probably get ignored on such forums.( And yes, they are populated by totalitarian socialists. There is even one individual who routinely argues for the 'liberation' of man/boy pedophilia...much to everyone's disgust, and anger.)

Don't take this personal.
But the lay of the land around these parts is not very salubrious for political conservatives or political agnostics.
Thanks but no thanks.
jogill

climber
Colorado
Apr 7, 2013 - 09:21pm PT
"atomic scales" and "Planck scales" are quite different, and the terminology is confusing...

oh oh . . . wrong unit.

At least this brief respite allowed rational discussion for a change.
MikeL

climber
SANTA CLARA, CA
Apr 7, 2013 - 09:32pm PT
Jogill: In computer design it simply denotes the state of a switch: 1 = on and 0 = off.

I rather like that idea--it's elegant, although I question any referent in reality.

Dr. F.: I disagree, that's when the mind is most vulnerable to believing anything that aids in healing, It's referred to as "Crisis Management", and it is very typical for pre-born agains to go through some crisis, and use Crisis Management to get through it (and like everyone, they will get through no matter what they do), no matter what God they say they believe in . . . .

To learn anything, one must first be confused. If you believe you have nothing to learn, indeed you will learn nothing. You must first have questions. The bigger the questions or confusion (even a crisis), the bigger the potential learning. Learning IS healing. It needn't have to do anything with "God" . . . or, what the hell, it could.

Dr. F. again: no matter how hard we try to believe in Jesus, nothing will change for us.

You cannot say that for others' minds, hearts, or souls. You can only say that for yourself. I'd say that IF that is your belief, that is exactly what you will experience. On the other hand, if your belief in Jesus were absolute, then perhaps everything could change for you. You're not there.

The world you live in is of your own making.

:-)

Largo

Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
Apr 7, 2013 - 11:13pm PT
Of course the laws of thermodynamics are uniformally[sic] flawed, especially per the law of entropy

Explain. Show your work. References are required.

You punters either didn't read that this was taken from a web site (from a dude at CalTech) for you to look at for your own enjoyment, or not, but at least Ed caught the main point - that in the being realm or sphere, the whole thing is possible.

Explain? Said "sphere" is the open field of awareness through which all things rise and fall in all of our experience.

Show your work. As I've said 1,000 times, this is not a quantifying exercise, "work" as you know it belonging to realm of numbers, for which we all are well aware of your obsession.

References per said "sphere" are best achieved through actual practices. In this sphere, one doesn't get something for nothing - meaning it cannot be transmitted like a FAX.

I will pass on your questions per thermodynamics to my friend, who teaches it at CalTech. I personally found his angle interesting about how it dove-tailed into the "sphere," whereas science types will quite naturally glomb onto the part they are comfortable with.

Not that these matters are literally water and oil, but a certain awkwardnes seems present when the two are combined in any form I have seen.

JL
Ward Trotter

Trad climber
Apr 8, 2013 - 12:38pm PT
MikeL

climber
SANTA CLARA, CA
Apr 8, 2013 - 02:30pm PT
^^^^^^^^

"Children are investments."

(Sigh.)

The idea that people (God forbid, children) are investments is a oft-used symbol, but conceptualizing people as objects / things is a insidious and vicious notion that quickly gets out of hand. If you have investments, you are supposed to have returns. What would that be? Better human beings? (By what standards? The State's? Should I suppose "productivity" would be a proper return?)

Is this how anyone would like to be thought about by others? As an investment? I do grok the idea that others could be everyone's responsibility (sort of), but "investments?" I think that idea needs to be thought through to its ugly end.

Return to the humanities. That's where human beings get talked about in a more proper fashion.

Thinking of people as human resources (investments, e.g.) is a sign of just how far we've gone down the road of quantification, objectification, typification. Not everything should be objectified or quantified. Quantification and objectivity has its place--just not the whole place, please.
BASE104

Social climber
An Oil Field
Apr 8, 2013 - 04:56pm PT
Come on. She was talking about government spending on all our kids. The Fox News people snip it and make it sound like she is wanting to steal your kids.

I'm a parent and can relate. It took so much effort and care to raise a man. You could call it an investment. I call it an obligation.

When you have children, all things must stand aside. It is the most important thing that you will ever do.

I lucked out. He is doing great in college, makes friends easily, all that stuff. I'm very proud.

I have learned one thing. Not all men are created equal. The public schools in the rich part of town are far better off than in the poor part of town. Which vagina you fall from decides a lot about your future in this world. We won the vaginal lottery.
Norton

Social climber
the Wastelands
Apr 8, 2013 - 05:07pm PT
Which vagina you fall from decides a lot about your future in this world. We won the vaginal lottery.

excellent point

and we should add that children should choose their parents very carefully
cintune

climber
The Utility Muffin Research Kitchen
Apr 8, 2013 - 05:35pm PT
jogill

climber
Colorado
Apr 8, 2013 - 05:49pm PT
References per said "sphere" are best achieved through actual practices. In this sphere, one doesn't get something for nothing - meaning it cannot be transmitted like a FAX

Inscrutable.

;>}

go-B

climber
Hebrews 1:3
Apr 8, 2013 - 06:04pm PT
Revelation 21:1 Now I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away. Also there was no more sea. 2 Then I, John, saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. 3 And I heard a loud voice from heaven saying, “Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and He will dwell with them, and they shall be His people. God Himself will be with them and be their God. 4 And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes; there shall be no more death, nor sorrow, nor crying. There shall be no more pain, for the former things have passed away.” 5 Then He who sat on the throne said, “Behold, I make all things new.” And He said to me, “Write, for these words are true and faithful.”

photo not found
Missing photo ID#297817

2 Corinthians 1:20 For all the promises of God in Him are Yes, and in Him Amen, to the glory of God

Ephesians 3:14 For this reason I bow my knees to the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, 15 from whom the whole family in heaven and earth is named, 16 that He would grant you, according to the riches of His glory, to be strengthened with might through His Spirit in the inner man, 17 that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith; that you, being rooted and grounded in love, 18 may be able to comprehend with all the saints what is the width and length and depth and height— 19 to know the love of Christ which passes knowledge; that you may be filled with all the fullness of God.

20 Now to Him who is able to do exceedingly abundantly above all that we ask or think, according to the power that works in us, 21 to Him be glory in the church by Christ Jesus to all generations, forever and ever. Amen.


The Final Victory will be at the Coronation and the Marriage Supper of the Lamb when we're in Heaven's home for good and in our new digs, the place prepared by the Father and Jesus for us! I HOPE to see you there!
Dr. F.

Big Wall climber
SoCal
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 8, 2013 - 06:33pm PT
copy, paste, scan.
Is that what Jesus would do?
Not the jesus that talks to me

he said, I speak through you Dr. F
go forward and spread my gospel!
But don't ever cut and paste, write thouth the words the cometh to your head, like the one youth tpyeth nowth, If youth haveth any questions of the other sideth, well you can forgeth that Jebusth will tellth youeth of these secrets, theyth are biblical trufphs, and only we can control the other side..

I said no thanks, try that scam on someone else
Norton

Social climber
the Wastelands
Apr 8, 2013 - 06:34pm PT
welcome back Gobee!

I missed ya
Dr. F.

Big Wall climber
SoCal
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 8, 2013 - 06:41pm PT
You cannot say that for others' minds, hearts, or souls. You can only say that for yourself.
Mike L.

Mike, I am offended that you took my words out of context.

I said explicitly that Only Some will be able to accept Jesus as a path or beleif system, and some will not. Me being one of them.

here are my words exactly
Me, along with several Billion others have heard the name Jesus
and it didn't do a thing for us, and no matter how hard we try to believe in Jesus, nothing will change for us.

Never did I say that I was talking for anyone other myself, and several billion others.
cintune

climber
The Utility Muffin Research Kitchen
Apr 8, 2013 - 06:43pm PT
Largo

Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
Apr 8, 2013 - 06:54pm PT

References per said "sphere" are best achieved through actual practices. In this sphere, one doesn't get something for nothing - meaning it cannot be transmitted like a FAX

Inscrutable.
-

Maybe this will make better sense.

I've said plenty of times that experiential adventures require just as specialized an approach as science, art, or any other legitimate study. It's much like climbing. Some people have natural talent, but even those have to practice to achieve their potential.

This simple fact is not widely accepted by people on this thread. Rather than do the work required by virtually all known paths, they expect to simply noodle the subject, "think about it," and render a verdict based on - what, I'm not sure, since the experiential realm is really and truly the experiential realm, and on some level, everything else is just talk.

The data, so to speak, is not a numerical or symbolic stream, but rather it is embedded in the immediacy of the experience itself, and whatever awareness we might bring to it. We can't gather the info and FAX it to someone else to ponder. We would do so immediately if it worked, but it don't. Ever. People expecting it to work, that the depths traversed in the experiential are open to cognitive musings minus the experience are, in fact, expecting something for nothing - for no investment or time, energy, commitment, or sincere effort.

JL
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