Politics, God and Religion vs. Science


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Dr. F.

Big Wall climber
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 7, 2013 - 08:07am PT
If the world is all Liberal
Where's the wealth
To come frummmm ?

Let's see, The Founding Fathers were Progressive liberals
Bill Gates, George Soros, Bloomberg?, and probably 50% the rest of wealth comes from liberals

To say wealth doesn't come from liberals is pure conservative BS propaganda
Do I just suck off the system? Hell NO, even I create wealth.

delete my post Base?
just stirring the pot, that's what i do, I thought you figured that out by now Base, and this talk of mental consciousness is a big yawn for me

My take on Ayn Rand is that she was reacting to Stalin Communism, not liberalism nor socialism
So hence, everything she railed against has been taken out of context is invalid in today's America. One thing for sure, It is completely Anti-Christian, everyone Jesus teachings railed against her type of selfishness and doing good for goodness sake, Jesus died because of the Governing ideologies that she advocated, where the rich and powerful rule, and the rest of the people suffer in poverty and slavery. That is what you get when you let objectivism rule.

The conservatives have just shifted the debate about Ayn Rand, to make it seem that selfishness is a good thing, part of what God would desire, God makes you rich, God showers his favorites with riches, those are God's chosen ones. It just demonstrates that Chrisitans will believe anything that their leaders tell them, no matter how far it is from Jesus' teaching, they just spin it so their followers will accept it as gospel. Just like all the wars that were waged on the word of God.

Apr 7, 2013 - 09:00am PT
With no moral restraints? Hannibal Lector? ;>|

I hear what you're saying, John. Something like that is everyone's concern when one questions autonomy, control, physical cause-and-effect, etc.

If I let go, I won't do anything. If something else is pulling the strings, then do I have free will? If I have no free will or control, then is anything I do without responsibility?

These seem to be paradoxes, but I think they are all simple myths that have no basis in reality. We talk here on this thread all the time about what experts say things really are, how one thing gives rise to another, impossibilities (constraints), improbabilities (statistical occurrences), as well as conceptual ideas like freedom, will, and right and wrong. How many of these ideas / concepts have WE created out of nothing?

Leaving the theoretical aside, I'd say that you cannot be Hannibal Lector. It's not who or what you are. "No matter where you go, there you are" (Buckaroo Banzai). You cannot help but be jogill.

Letting go is not wild abandon that leads to moral turpitude. Letting go simply means relaxing, resting, ease --taking everything easy, gently, lightly.

I think letting go is the gutsiest thing any person can do. That's what I meant to communicate. When one lets go (AA, born again Christians, some spiritual practitioners, folks who have been bended to kowtow by the universe), then all those paradoxes, stories, weird incommensurabilities, Escher-like circularities (Billy Preston above), and optimal illusions come into stark relief.

Base, . . . doesn't that boat give you some respite from stress? I lost my best friend (a very competent and experienced sailor) who lived on his Cal 27 in Dana Point . . . apparently slipped on the dock one night, hit his head, and drowned 10 feet from his boat moored in the slip. Or maybe he was drinking. Found him floating in the water the next morning. Sad. You never know what it's going to be or when. (Anyone who gives that notion complete attention for even a few seconds will have a great meditation going.)

Social climber
joshua tree
Apr 7, 2013 - 10:46am PT

wiki Def: Objectivism, NOUN,
(philosophy) One of several doctrines that holds that all of reality is objective and exists outside of the mind.
The specific objectivist philosophy created by novelist Ayn Rand, endorsing productive achievement and logical reasoning.

This seems like a good philosophy for ur cacti. Or maybe the military.
And maybe this works good for you and where ur at today. But how would this work
for ALL people, for the starving children in Africa and India? How does it work for women
throughout the world who are held as second class citizens? How does it work
for the disabled, or refugees, or migrants?

You can't run the world without morals and compassion!
new world order2

Apr 7, 2013 - 11:15am PT
We each wield enormous power throughout each day of our lives. We control powerful forces of which most of us are totally unaware. Your power can create good or bad future events for yourself, for your friends and family and for all of humanity.

Your subconscious mind is in continuous contact with the subconscious minds of everyone else alive today and possibly with all minds on other planes at all times throughout the universe. The collective subconscious controls the omnipotent, omnipresent quantum field. It envelops everything, powers the atoms and manifests our holographic universe. And, your individual mind, while in the alpha level awareness (daydream state), is your personal control console for the collective subconscious. It’s your key to your personal power and what everyone must learn to control for posterity’s sake.

Ward Trotter

Trad climber
Apr 7, 2013 - 11:37am PT
Let's see, The Founding Fathers were Progressive liberals

Credit: Ward Trotter

From left to right: Ben Franklin, Thomas Jefferson, John Adams, Dolly Madison.

Behind them the Continental Congress.

BTW I am not a Republican. I like to point out the absurdity of both political persuasions. Much like I do with atheism vs. religiosity.

To say wealth doesn't come from liberals is pure conservative BS propaganda
Do I just suck off the system? Hell NO, even I create wealth.

What I am saying is that the very obvious Achilles heel of American Liberalism, as presently constituted, is not so much that it demonstrates antipathy towards Capitalism, and the private sector in general, but that it elevates an all-powerful federal government to a position of absolute dominance over all and everything. This is a level of dominance that increases daily and is squarely outside of the intentions of those 'progressive' founding fathers- who saw a rather limited role for government.

We are currently living in a socialistic bubble that allows politicians and bureaucrats more and more control over people's lives. The general public seems to get stupider and more ill-informed as time goes on; more complacent , seemingly more accepting of foxes in the hen coup of their own minds .A truly Wernerian stupidity has settled over the land. We are fast becoming Yosemite Valley tourists in our own society.
I don't say that because Liberal Democrats are currently in charge of the chicken coup, I say it because it is everywhere apparent.
Like republicans once upon a time,
democrats got plenty of tricks walkin.
But trust me, this too shall pass
And democrats, like republicans, will have:


Social climber
the Wastelands
Apr 7, 2013 - 11:46am PT
Let's see, The Founding Fathers were Progressive liberals

well, obviously they were not 60s tie died "liberals"

but yes, they did support and fight for, "liberal values" and the big one was freedom from King George of England, whom the "conservatives" of that era were afraid of and sided with

among numerous other examples that are easy to look up for oneself

Apr 7, 2013 - 11:51am PT
Letting go is not wild abandon that leads to moral turpitude. Letting go simply means relaxing, resting, ease --taking everything easy, gently, lightly

Good point, MikeL

Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Apr 7, 2013 - 11:54am PT
Ive been to "church of the blu grouse",,"Church of the Antelope",,"church of the crows",, "Church of the golden trout",, and many other churches. Enjoyed them all and gave thanks in prayer.

Apr 7, 2013 - 12:03pm PT
Only a sterile person thinks they can quantify everything and anything ......

Sport climber
Apr 7, 2013 - 12:28pm PT

Apr 7, 2013 - 12:42pm PT
Looks like letting go may mean different things to different people.

Me? If someone tells me to not do some task I will be likely to oblige.

Hakuna Shida

Things will happen in their own good time.

Somewhere out there
Apr 7, 2013 - 01:56pm PT

 1:09 forward….Some Truth


Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
Apr 7, 2013 - 02:38pm PT
From a web site:

The ancient Indian astronomer, Aryabhatta, invented the number 0 (zero ). This symbolizes the notion of Perfectness & Nothingness ( No ending - No Beginning ). This could be well supported even by the shape of the number - 0 - where there is no ending or beginning.

When anything is Perfect, nothing needs to be done about it. But, when there is nothing - nothing can be done about it. Under these circumstances, everything is reduced into a dormant state, absolutely, no movement of any sort, and this is what we term "SHUNYA" - All the beings in the Universe are trying to achieve this state. But attaining the state of Nothingness (Shunya) or perfectness may be theoretically possible, it is a practical impossibility.

Thermodynamics state that absolute zero is impossible, due to its quantum mechanical zero-point energy. And it's impossible to remove the kinetic energy of its ground state. Of course the laws of thermodynamics are
uniformally flawed, especially per the law of entropy. Nevertheless, in the material realm, absolute zero cannot be attained using only thermodynamic means. (Read on from en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Absolute_zero). However in the being sphere, no-thing is the limit.

Social climber
An Oil Field
Apr 7, 2013 - 03:14pm PT
The boat is the best I can do with what my old cranky body can handle. I have a big chunk of exotic metals in my upper tibia. Nothing to do. The bone up and died on me, but I figure that I got my money out of it.

Aren't there any of you who just can't function without a periodic dose of adventure? That is where I find my spot of no-thing. Total clarity. It is fleeting, but I think I know what you are saying. Absence of conscious thought. I know a little about that.

I get cranky if they don't let me out every now and then for a few months. Most years I take off for a few months and go do something. I don't even tell people what I'm up to anymore. They are all getting gray hair and worry about the stock market. My goals are to ease into a simple and inexpensive life. Hopefully I won't fall and brake an ankle. That would tie me to the post for longer than I'd like.

Social climber
joshua tree
Apr 7, 2013 - 03:24pm PT
To Do or Not To Do?

Seems like life is more fun and exciting when we do things with as little knowledge as possible. Take for instance a ground-up first accent. Even the seasoned veteran gets those warm and fuzzy feelings. Just the idea of a fresh new line invokes the sensation of mystery, and adventure. In the actual act of hiking to the base, one must subdue the emotional
drama that arises from his conscious. The excitement of the precieved glory from peers
if the line is a success. The nervousness in wondering if you've addiquitly prepared. The
fear of tragedy because you might be in over ur head. We don't stop in our tracks and
try to resolve such feelings. Instead we look to the environment and search for something to see that causes a new feeling to erupt. Like a pretty flower, or a golden eagle or a great granite massive. Happily we march on. Finally we get to the base, rack up, and start climbing.
Bewildered, in the act of the unknown, is where I've always felt the most comfortable. The MOST alive! Not knowing what was only 5 feet ahead of me. Not knowing the rte was only 5.9
and I could cruise. The only thing I can be sure of, is my experience. The sum of all my climbing experiences prior. Which exudes confidence. Which exudes a positive outlook.

I remember back when CMac came out with his first BigWalls SuperTopo. Brad Jarret
and I looked through the thing and just laaaughed. Wondering why anyone would want this much info about climbing.

Apr 7, 2013 - 04:07pm PT
Saw-toothed functions
Saw-toothed functions
Credit: jogill

A little divertissement: here is a graph of the interval [0,1] representing one inch. I won’t bother with the formulae, but there is a sequence of these saw-toothed paths that grow uniformly closer to the line [0,1] as one divides the interval into n subintervals, each of length 1/n inches. Think of the graphing action to take one second for each path.

These paths grow longer with increasing n even though they are constrained to this interval. How large can we make n ? Assume that Planck distance is the minimum that can be measured, or if you like the absolute minimum distance, period. Then increasing n eventually takes us to this limit for the subintervals 1/n. If we don't constrain n, the hypothetical unfolded length of the path increases without bound.

Under the constraint, however, think of the saw-toothed path as being a very thin inelastic string. We could stretch it out and attach one end to the Statue of Liberty in NYC, and the other end to the Golden Gate Bridge in SF. I think we are safely within Planck time for the process.

Leaving it as it is, however, the image at virtually any power of magnification would show the path to be a straight line connecting 0 to 1 (inch).

There’s nothing particularly mystical about the number 0. In computer design it simply denotes the state of a switch: 1 = on and 0 = off.

Social climber
joshua tree
Apr 7, 2013 - 04:46pm PT
^^^^All scientific experiments and human experiences happen over billions of billions of billions of Planck times, making any events happening at the Planck scale hard to detect.

Ice climber
the ghost
Apr 7, 2013 - 05:21pm PT
Of course the laws of thermodynamics are uniformally[sic] flawed, especially per the law of entropy
Explain. Show your work. References are required.
Dr. F.

Big Wall climber
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 7, 2013 - 06:04pm PT
I think letting go is the gutsiest thing any person can do. That's what I meant to communicate. When one lets go (AA, born again Christians, some spiritual practitioners, folks who have been bended to kowtow by the universe), then all those paradoxes, stories, weird incommensurabilities,

I disagree, that's when the mind is most vulnerable to believing anything that aids in healing, It's referred to as "Crisis Management",
and it is very typical for pre-born agains to go through some crisis, and use Crisis Management to get through it (and like everyone, they will get through no matter what they do), no matter what God they say they believe in, or if they use the word Santa Claus instead, they will say that Santa Claus (spaghetti monster) miraculously saved them from their impending doom, Praise the Lord.
Dr. F.

Big Wall climber
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 7, 2013 - 06:07pm PT
You should post on the Republican thread, we will discuss your concerns there
and keep this thread free of right wing theology

I often wonder about the fear of socialism

Will it ever take over our Nation??
Are you F-ing crazy, No, there is no switch that someone can flick and turn the Nation into a complete socialism nor communism

It will always be the same, mainly Capitalism with the Commons provided by mostly socialism, and that is where the crux lies
Republicans want to privatise the commons to make money on it, even though they say it won't cost more, it is a proven fact that It will cost more.

Democrats and liberals want a strong Gov. that socializes the commons so they are less expensive, safer, and accountable through elections.

Just like we will never become a Christian Nation and governed by biblical law, nor Sharia law, nor communism,
what we are really fighting is the constantly growing Fascism, where the right wing players in the Government are in for the money, and Government is all about making money, and about keeping the people in fear for their low paying jobs.. blah blah blah
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