Politics, God and Religion vs. Science

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Messages 14121 - 14140 of total 22369 in this topic << First  |  < Previous  |  Show All  |  Next >  |  Last >>
jogill

climber
Colorado
May 26, 2013 - 06:41pm PT
Yes, the only certainty is no one knows for sure!

(Maybe that statement is "uncertain")


;>)
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
May 26, 2013 - 06:52pm PT
And so, finally, we arrive at the only truly sound point to be made.
WBraun

climber
May 26, 2013 - 07:00pm PT
No you haven't.

You're just guessing again as usual .....
jogill

climber
Colorado
May 26, 2013 - 07:04pm PT
Four Duckies: Offspring of WB Duck
Four Duckies: Offspring of WB Duck
Credit: jogill


They don't think we are guessing!
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
May 26, 2013 - 08:18pm PT
Well true, I should have qualified that with: except for Werner and go-B who have all the answers.
cintune

climber
The Utility Muffin Research Kitchen
May 26, 2013 - 08:39pm PT
But we all have all the answers. We all lecture down from superiority, too, really. I'm pretty sure I've got everything figured out, and so does everyone else here. Religion establishes a go-to ancient-of-days authority, while the scientist/atheist/existentialist crowd has all the hard facts that have mostly been squeezed out of existence during the past five hundred years or so, and which are being added to every day. You can take your pick of authorities there, kind of an apples and oranges thing. And then not to mention each and all of our personal, individual life experiences that have led us to think things are the way we think they are.

Politics, God and Religion vs. Science, the thread where everybody is right.
Largo

Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
May 26, 2013 - 09:38pm PT
Religion establishes a go-to ancient-of-days authority, while the scientist/atheist/existentialist crowd has all the hard facts that have mostly been squeezed out of existence during the past five hundred years or so, and which are being added to every day. You can take your pick of authorities there...


These are not the only options, but are the all-or-nothing poles generally favored by us Westerners, who have no experience with other options.

The "middle way" straddles the confluence between the discrete (quantifiable) without making demands that cannot be met - that unborn, uncreated and limitless aspects be diced into bits for the pleasure of our discursive minds. This is never unsatisfactory to anyone who stays the course, but is ALWAYS lacking for everyone's discursive mind, which only understands and wants to play a very proscribed game - of immense practical value, but on limited scope per the larger issues of being, presence, and consciousness.

I would refer people back to the last few minutes of that vid that Fruity posted last week. Where the woman (Blackman?) lecturing at Caltech noticed the remarkable difference between walking through our lives on auto pilot, and what happens when we ask the simple question: Am I conscious now? That's the start of the Great Game, IMW.

JL

BASE104

Social climber
An Oil Field
May 26, 2013 - 10:15pm PT
This is not an apple and oranges discussion.

It is an apple and the ghost of an orange discussion.

I know the apple is real.

As for the ghost of the orange, there are differing opinions from one end of the planet to the other, all fairly certain that they are correct.

Life is short. Do you climb El Cap, or do you sit in the meadow staring at it for twenty years, trying to prove that it is there?
cintune

climber
The Utility Muffin Research Kitchen
May 26, 2013 - 10:16pm PT
the larger issues of being, presence, and consciousness.

Yes, you're right.

Came to mind, that the core of Zen tradition, as you have so frequently mentioned, is give-or-take 2,000 years old. 2,000 years ago, no one had the slightest clue about the way we Westerners would come to view the world*. Maybe in terms of The Deeper Issues™, that doesn't matter, but it still seems like a big contextual disconnect to the woefully unenlightened. The earliest practitioners of Zen and Tantra and Kundalini were otherwise surrounded by animism and pantheism when it came to all of the Big Questions. The whole Western scientific endeavour was still in the future and on the other side of the planet.

* Except for the Greeks, obviously, but the Dark Ages squelched what might have come of that.
Largo

Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
May 26, 2013 - 10:21pm PT
I know the apple is real.

By real you mean quantifiable, of course. Ergo the "ghost of the orange" is less real to your discursive mind, or entirely false, as it is not physical = real, that being said mind's only currency. This is the party line. All clear on that one.

But we'd all be fascinated to learn the subjective process (human beings cannot have a purely objective experience) by which you "know."

JL
MH2

climber
May 26, 2013 - 10:46pm PT
Am I conscious now?




Was I conscious then?





Will I still be conscious...




...toooomorrrrrow?







cintune

climber
The Utility Muffin Research Kitchen
May 26, 2013 - 10:59pm PT
Scoundrel!

WBraun

climber
May 26, 2013 - 11:54pm PT
"no one had the slightest clue about the way we Westerners would come to view the world*

"No one knows" is the other stupid catch phrase always spouted.

More stupid made up ideas in your heads.

It was already known how "so called modern westerners" will be and understand the world 5000 years ago even 100,000 years ago they knew.

Modern materialistic western men are so arrogant and egotistical they just make up any kind nonsense that grows in their tiny heads and spout as facts.

No wonder the world is falling apart.

It's run by egotistical idiots ......
go-B

climber
Hebrews 1:3
May 27, 2013 - 12:05am PT
Luke 12:27 Consider the lilies, how they grow: they toil not, neither do they spin; yet I say unto you, Even Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these.
Ward Trotter

Trad climber
May 27, 2013 - 12:32am PT
WBraun: So I hear you been talkin us down on some other threads?

Credit: Ward Trotter
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
May 27, 2013 - 02:10am PT
they just make up any kind nonsense

As opposed to your vedic nonsense...?
Largo

Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
May 27, 2013 - 03:26am PT
You'll never get to the core or Zen by tracking where science was 2,500 years ago. Zen has no content. So whatever idea have about it is all your own. The contentless aspect is the timeless bit that attracts a few here and there.

So far as the "am I conscious" question, this helps clarify the huge difference between being vaguely aware, and being consciously mindful. These are not ideas, of shades.

JL
slayton

Trad climber
Here and There
May 27, 2013 - 05:29am PT
WBraun
"No one knows" is the other stupid catch phrase always spouted.

More stupid made up ideas in your heads.

It was already known how "so called modern westerners" will be and understand the world 5000 years ago even 100,000 years ago they knew.

Ok. Please explain. Who knew? Who are "they" that knew 100,000 years ago?
mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
May 27, 2013 - 10:34am PT
Broke out the OLD Trivial Pursuit last night...

"What was the non-fiction best seller of 1952, 1953, and 1954?"

(hint: it involves a zombie)
Jan

Mountain climber
Okinawa, Japan
May 27, 2013 - 10:37am PT
Graham Greene and something about Haiti?
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