Politics, God and Religion vs. Science

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TomCochrane

Trad climber
Santa Cruz Mountains and Monterey Bay
Apr 24, 2013 - 03:53pm PT
I’ve mentioned before Stanisaw Lem’s “Ergodic Theory of History”, in which he hypothesizes that in some circumstances minor variations along the temporal way would not preclude an outcome that is in a sense destined. I look upon the development of Nazi Germany as an example, where in the 1930s were someone to assassinate Hitler the Party or something similar would still develop and wreak havoc. In those times there was a “contractive” factor at work where people and events were strongly influenced by prevailing social thought and minor deviations from recorded history might prove irrelevant.

very true


climbing El Capitan being a good example...what's to prevent a climbing party from wandering off in various arbitrary directions across the rock, other than a preprogrammed intention to follow a particular line of features to the summit, never mind whatever challenges are encountered enroute?



political entities empowering Germany in that era are largely irrelevant to the visible leader selected, essentially a performer chosen for a combination of showmanship and extraordinary abilities to survive assassination attempts...i.e. think Houdini...

...unfortunately for the powers that be, this charismatic leader saw through his preprogramming and revolted and thus had to be defeated by those same political entities originally empowering him...



those same political entities are still at work in the world...only now with greater subtlety and patience and technology tools development and the benefit of lessons learned in a series of carefully engineered chaos scenarios...
Largo

Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
Apr 24, 2013 - 04:05pm PT
the point is, that in all the changes in our understanding of mathematics, all the expansion in our knowledge... this theorem is still correct, it is still true, in exactly the same way it was in Euclid's time.
-

This is an amazing thing to ponder. On the humanist side, one only needs to read a few chapter of The Meditations, by Marcus Aurelius, written in 167 A.C.E., to realize our most basic human truths have not changed a lick in 2250 years. Marcus had exactly the same concerns as we have today, and his mind operated exactly the same as well. Everything changes; nothing changes.

JL
MikeL

climber
SANTA CLARA, CA
Apr 24, 2013 - 05:02pm PT
Tom, a rinpoche once quipped that a buddha could have reincarnated as Hitler so that the blowback would move minds and civilization forward. (Buddhists promote an idea of "skillful means.") It's difficult to tell what actions or behaviors are the right ones unless one can see into the future ad infinitum (claimed by some lamas). I think most of us experience that dilemma concretely in our daily lives, perhaps with children, fellow workers, lovers, and students. Even holding an intent towards compassion if fraught with thorns. Sometimes it is most compassionate to be stern, strict, and unyielding. Other times, it's best to avoid action altogether until a situation further coalesces. Who can tell what's skillful and what's not?


Hey, Base, most of the words thrown around by me and maybe Largo and others are code words. Even happiness. What I thought happiness was has shifted for me. For me "happiness" now translates to some kind of "understanding," which I think is seeing bigger, more fluid pictures of interrelationships. It's led to great hesitation saying that anything is bad or good, right or wrong, appropriate or inappropriate anymore. Most everything seems to happen for a purpose from my point of view. I only "get it" after-the-fact. The more I understand, the fewer real questions I have. What I don't yet understand is a sense of inconceivable intelligence that I sense in everything. (You can call it what you want.)
WBraun

climber
Apr 24, 2013 - 06:10pm PT
Happiness is a code word?

Pure happiness is the true state of every living entity.

The living entity by its true nature is always "blissful".

When it comes in contact with the dual nature of the material world due to the misconception of falsely
identifying its material body as the self, it suffers the pangs of temporary happiness and distress.

The material body is the source of all misery ........

TomCochrane

Trad climber
Santa Cruz Mountains and Monterey Bay
Apr 24, 2013 - 06:37pm PT
he was himself of jewish descent

the real problem with jews was a proclivity for keeping wealth privately hidden away from banks and governments, thus undermining the political agenda for centralized control of all populations

at the time people were convinced insanity was a disease caused by germs

at the time people didn't know about psychedelics such as lsd

he was preprogrammed with secret briefings about an 'epidemic of insanity' spreading among people of jewish descent

he was convinced of this by viewing a series of many hidden-camera movies taken of ordinary jewish people going about their lives normally until they suddenly went insane (induced by surreptitious doses of lsd)

he was himself dosed and 'cured' in the intensive care of secret doctors

the proposed solution to prevent spreading of this phony 'epidemic of insanity' was the camps and genocide

convinced of the importance of 'saving humanity from insanity' he went along with this agenda for a while

he was himself 'protected' from the 'insanity disease' by doctors who kept him on a regimen of 'very rare and expensive' drugs, to keep him able to function

once in a position of power, he conducted his own secret research projects and determined there was in fact no such epidemic

he secretly used prestidigitation skills to avoid being himself dosed with drugs by his doctors, and quietly revolted against his handlers and the big agenda...with some degree of success...

he subsequently survived at least five serious assassination attempts, three of which were successful against body doubles

you will note that official history has rightfully not been kind to him (contrast hirohito)although he did pretty well set back the time-table for world domination

they are being much more careful about it this time
Largo

Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
Apr 24, 2013 - 06:52pm PT
Base, you can't search for no-thing. That's like a fish searching for water. It's generally too close to experience directly because our discursive minds are always seeking some thing. A good place to initially experience no-thing is in the space between thoughts, which over time you come to realize is the fundamental nature of mind, since the stuff we normally so ardently chase after is all impermanent.

JL
rrider

climber
Mckinleyville, Ca
Apr 24, 2013 - 06:54pm PT
@ Tom ^ ^

authoritarians/totalitarians learn from history

liberal democracy creates new opportunities for everybody
BASE104

Social climber
An Oil Field
Apr 24, 2013 - 07:19pm PT
Tom sounds like he has been reading Philip K. Dick.
cintune

climber
The Utility Muffin Research Kitchen
Apr 24, 2013 - 07:21pm PT
I use the terms in everyday conversations in much the same way I talked to my nieces and nephews about The Cat in the Hat--or the same way Jingy, Dr. F, and Cintune talk about myths and religion (sans the scorn).

Well, let's be clear, here, I actually love some myths and religions, the same way I love some art. Definitely not a fan of the Judeo-Christian-Islamic axis of passive-aggressive mind-control, but other than that, there's lots of great mythology out there to sample, from a thoroughly postmodern perspective. They're narratives drawn from human experience, and as such some of them resonate more than others. W.B. Yeats said that everyone is living out some myth or other, whether they know it or not.

Hey Base, cool article here: http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg21829144.600-rocks-reemerge-after-25-billion-years-in-mantle.html
TomCochrane

Trad climber
Santa Cruz Mountains and Monterey Bay
Apr 24, 2013 - 08:15pm PT
reality is stranger than fiction
rrider

climber
Mckinleyville, Ca
Apr 24, 2013 - 08:52pm PT
Largo says: you can’t search for no-thing. And possibly the hypen was installed specifically to prevent the kind of mischief we could have with the word nothing. I can’t think about the meaning of no-thing, though. It is above my pay grade. So I thought some other goofy stuff instead. I rushed in where smart people feared to tread... I admit this is all friendly humor. Forgive me for taking nothing lightly.

I think you’re serious about nothing, John
but I am being irreverent about nothing, so its okay.
what’s so special about nothing?
Is nothing new under the sun?
a few songs have been written about nothing in particular
Nothing is real and there’s nothing to get hungabout - that was John Lennon paving the way for another John L. (Strawberry Fields Forever)
words mean nothing
nothing created the Big Bang
don’t chase after nothing
don’t be afraid of nothing
When there’s too much of nothing, nobody should look –it is said Bob Dylan wrote that (Too Much of Nothing)
but if you don’t look, you'll see nothing

Pay no attention to these words, but consider the possibility that nothing will change
Once in a while I just feel curious about nothing

P.S. Hope the leg is progressing well.
Dr. F.

Big Wall climber
SoCal
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 24, 2013 - 11:13pm PT
Credit: Dr. F.
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Apr 24, 2013 - 11:20pm PT
Obstructing jobs, and obstructing fixing the economy is Patriotic???

Can you say this about the Keystone Pipeline? Or the failures of Fiskar/Solydra?

Or are you just stupid and fail to comprehend economics as it relates to gov't subsidy?
Dr. F.

Big Wall climber
SoCal
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 24, 2013 - 11:22pm PT
Wrong thread you moron

I understand how things work, too bad you don't
How does the military work???
Is it on a Gov. subsidy??
How about education, the Highway system, The Justice system??
How do they get their funding???

Have you ever thought things through to the end? No, try it sometime
WBraun

climber
Apr 24, 2013 - 11:23pm PT
LOL Hahahaha
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Apr 24, 2013 - 11:24pm PT
So now I have to go to a thread that Nazis like you specify? Guide me to the proper oven...
Dr. F.

Big Wall climber
SoCal
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 24, 2013 - 11:30pm PT
We need a pallet cleaning after the evil that stopped by
Credit: Dr. F.
Dr. F.

Big Wall climber
SoCal
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 24, 2013 - 11:32pm PT
Credit: Dr. F.
phewwwww..
I feel a little better now
jstan

climber
Apr 24, 2013 - 11:55pm PT
Relax Craig. Just send Bluring's name in to the 12,000 Asian women featured in the masthead advertisement. He won't have any time after that.
MH2

climber
Apr 25, 2013 - 12:35am PT
Base, you can't search for no-thing. That's like a fish searching for water.


?

Here is a fish searching for water.


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