Dr. F.
Big Wall climber
SoCal
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Topic Author's Reply - Feb 12, 2013 - 05:34pm PT
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go-B
climber
Hebrews 1:3
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Feb 12, 2013 - 05:37pm PT
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We have to live with each other, that's why we have the Police,
There is a higher way to love your neighbor as yourself...
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MH2
climber
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Feb 12, 2013 - 05:44pm PT
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How do we know if we are right
Your posts continue to show on SuperTopo.
Same way we know you are wrong.
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Bruce Kay
Gym climber
BC
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Feb 12, 2013 - 05:48pm PT
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We have to live with each other, that's why we have the Police,
????????????????????????????????????????????????
I know you like to simplify things but I'm quite sure there is more to it than that!
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Dr. F.
Big Wall climber
SoCal
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Topic Author's Reply - Feb 12, 2013 - 05:48pm PT
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It doesn't matter if you are right
but it's better to be right than wrong in some esoteric way I suppose
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Bruce Kay
Gym climber
BC
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Feb 12, 2013 - 05:53pm PT
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What's he's not understanding is that behavior is mostly driven by much more primitive drivers than neocortex content (ideas, beliefs, etc). You have to get down to the level of feelings and instincts to change big time, and you do that most effectively by way of contrary actions, by taking actions that might go against what you feel and how you feel. Your inner stat and understanding will follow. Working the in the other direction bears little fruit.
Ah! so thats why all neo- nazis are closet queers. they're just getting their yin on with their yang.
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cintune
climber
The Utility Muffin Research Kitchen
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Feb 12, 2013 - 05:58pm PT
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The sci-fi guru Roger Zelazny tackled this eloquently, pretty sure I've quoted this before:
The Nameless, of which we are all a part, does dream form. And what is the highest attribute any form may possess? It is beauty. The Nameless, then, is an artist. The problem, therefore, is not one of good or evil, but one of aesthetics. To struggle against those who are mighty among dreamers and are mighty for ill, or ugliness, is not to struggle for that which the sages have taught us to be meaningless in terms of Samsara or Nirvana, but rather it is to struggle for the symmetrical dreaming of a dream, in terms of the rhythm and the point, the balance and the antithesis which will make it a thing of beauty. Of this, the sages say nothing. This truth is so simple they have obviously overlooked it. For this reason, I am bound by the aesthetics of the situation to call it to your attention. To struggle against the dreamers who dream ugliness, be they men or gods, cannot but be the will of the Nameless. This struggle will also bear suffering, and so one's karmic burden will be lightened thereby, just as it would be by enduring the ugliness; but this suffering is productive of a higher end in the light of the eternal values of which the sages so often speak....
You may ask me, then, 'How am I to know that which is beautiful and that which is ugly, and be moved to act thereby?' This question, I say, you must answer for yourself.
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Largo
Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
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Feb 12, 2013 - 06:16pm PT
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Till the judge that you don't have free will and see if he lets you off for nicking that Corvette. The truth is most often found in our behavior, not what we profess to believe. But what might the judge say if yo asked him where a free choice "came from?" We can all understand conditioned responses. But one free of conditioning - how does that happen?
Sounds like a simple question.
JL
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WBraun
climber
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Feb 12, 2013 - 06:18pm PT
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But one free of conditioning - how does that happen?
Dovetail .....
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go-B
climber
Hebrews 1:3
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Feb 12, 2013 - 06:37pm PT
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Matthew 6:19 “Do not lay up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust destroy and where thieves break in and steal; 20 but lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust destroys and where thieves do not break in and steal. 21 For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.
Matthew 6:33 But seek first the kingdom of God and His righteousness, and all these things shall be added to you.
1 Timothy 6:6 Now godliness with contentment is great gain.
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Bruce Kay
Gym climber
BC
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Feb 12, 2013 - 07:02pm PT
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Go- be and Blueblocker, I would like to point out to you that I plowed through that ridiulously ponderous pile of text you posted suposedly illustrating the immorality of homosexuality. It was a real god damn chore and I'll tell you its the last god damn time I will read something that is not your own words. Why? Because as usual it was a waste of time. In that whole pile of text therde was not a single explanation as to why homosexuality was immoral or any less or more prone to immorality than heterosexuality. here is a sample:
Based on observing some of the locals who belly up to the bar in the Fairview Inn in Talkeetna, they appear to be selling their teeth for cash. Would see the same folks on the same barstool every year and they always had fewer teeth.
Oops! wrong quote. That is just Donini (another deity to some...) going on about spotting ron anderson in Talkeetna. I meant this:
The word “homosexual” is arsenokoites. Koites is the word for “bed”; arseno is a term for “man,” going to bed with a man. That’s what it means. It means going to bed with a man. People who do that don’t inherit the Kingdom of God. They do not. First Timothy 1:9, realizing the fact that the law is not made for a righteous person, but for those who are lawless and rebellious, ungodly sinners; unholy, profane people who kill their fathers or mothers--murderers, immoral men, and homosexuals. The law of God, the law of God, is made to expose the lawless, rebellious, ungodly sinners; unholy, profane killers of their parents; murderers, immoral men, and homosexuals--that’s not a nice group to belong to. And they will not inherit the Kingdom of God because you have to turn from your sin, repent, confess, and beg for mercy.
etc etc..... you get the idea. It is immoral apparently because god says so. You do not need a eighty thousand word essay to say the same thing over and over. I have news for you. There is evidence here on earth that completely and utterly contradicts this assertion. Thats right - observable evidence beats unsubstantiated assertion any day hands down no matter who claims it.
At one time your preachers claimed the world was flat. Evidence proved them wrong.
You are wrong. The evidence proves it.
I would only add that you should be ashamed of such intellectually stunted conjecture and most certainly for expecting that we would embrace the same. Klimmer - what have you got to say about this?
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WBraun
climber
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Feb 12, 2013 - 07:16pm PT
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At one time your preachers claimed the world was flat. Evidence proved them wrong.
It's still flat.
For a ways .....
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Dr. F.
Big Wall climber
SoCal
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Topic Author's Reply - Feb 12, 2013 - 07:20pm PT
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Klimmer also says that God hates the gays
Very un enlightened
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go-B
climber
Hebrews 1:3
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Feb 12, 2013 - 07:27pm PT
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"arseno", we all have one! And that means NO!
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go-B
climber
Hebrews 1:3
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Feb 13, 2013 - 06:46am PT
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James 1:13 Let no one say when he is tempted, “I am tempted by God”; for God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does He Himself tempt anyone. 14 But each one is tempted when he is drawn away by his own desires and enticed. 15 Then, when desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, brings forth death.
16 Do not be deceived, my beloved brethren. 17 Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and comes down from the Father of lights, with whom there is no variation or shadow of turning. 18 Of His own will He brought us forth by the word of truth,
Missing photo ID#289440
Even when we fall short of the glory of God, He extends His grace, mercy, and forgiveness toward us through Jesus...
Romans 10:12 ...for the same Lord over all is rich to all who call upon Him. 13 For “whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved.”
...but will YOU!!!???
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Malemute
Ice climber
the ghost
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Feb 13, 2013 - 07:17am PT
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You're asking Klimmer to actually think for himself?
Good luck with that.
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WBraun
climber
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Feb 13, 2013 - 07:48am PT
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You're even worst ^^^
You can't even think at all since you're just plain stupid period!
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High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
-A race of corn eaters
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Feb 13, 2013 - 09:30am PT
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I'm hopeful as Thomas Friedman...
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/27/opinion/sunday/friedman-revolution-hits-the-universities.html?ref=thomaslfriedman
The process of developing credible credentials that verify that the student has adequately mastered the subject — and did not cheat — and can be counted on by employers is still being perfected by all the MOOCs. But once it is, this phenomenon will really scale.
“There is a new world unfolding,” said Reif, “and everyone will have to adapt.”
Measured not day to day but in "generation time," this is a revolution. Just wish I could be around to see it unfold decade to decade is all.
Lifespan is too short. Then again better human than canine. :)
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TomCochrane
Trad climber
Santa Cruz Mountains and Monterey Bay
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Feb 13, 2013 - 11:19am PT
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one of the reasons why i wish people would use their own names on this forum...
http://m.vice.com/en_ca/read/why-is-barrett-brown-facing-100-years-in-jail
Alongside Abraxas and Cubic on those tax filings is another company called Ntrepid. According to Florida State’s records of corporations, Richard Helms is the director of that company. In 2011, Barrett’s work helped lead the Guardian to their report that Ntrepid won a $2.76 million-dollar contract from Centcom (U.S. Central Command), to create “online persona management” software, also known as “sockpuppetry.” To break it down in plain English, online persona management was created to populate social networks with a bunch of fake and believable social media personas to “influence internet conversations and spread pro-American propaganda.”
so who here is a really just a sockpuppet???
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High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
-A race of corn eaters
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Feb 13, 2013 - 11:50am PT
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Me.
I confess, I'm trying to spread pro-secular and pro-science and pro-education shi't.
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