Politics, God and Religion vs. Science

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TomCochrane

Trad climber
Santa Cruz Mountains and Monterey Bay
Apr 6, 2013 - 07:46pm PT
Blue Sea Slug
Blue Sea Slug
Credit: TomCochrane
MikeL

climber
SANTA CLARA, CA
Apr 6, 2013 - 08:13pm PT
Base:

I know. It's unsanitary.

Honestly, there's too much made of meditation. Then again, it is like a can opener on the universe if you throw yourself into it.

Perhaps I was josh'ing about the drugs. I'm agnostic, really. You see, I don't think it makes a difference one way or the other. You are what and where you cannot help to be. You will continue to face the same challenge until you resolve it, and then you'll be on to the next. One could get anxious about all of that, but there's no need since you aren't doing any of it to begin with. It's all happening to you. It only seems like you're the one in control. Forget control. It's a dysfunctional concept. They all are.

So what you're facing, you might as well release into. Karma yoga says: get into it. Release yourself. Be that which you cannot help to be. When you do, then you'll see it kinda like one of those rides in the amusement park. Not really real, but interesting,

Personally (and I'm no wise man), I'd say do everything you can think of. Balls out means let go.
MikeL

climber
SANTA CLARA, CA
Apr 6, 2013 - 08:14pm PT
Tom:

What the f*ck is that?
BASE104

Social climber
An Oil Field
Apr 6, 2013 - 08:40pm PT
The Fool knows that the only true madness is to recognize this world as rational

There is a lot of common sense in that quote. People can be pretty horrible to each other. Think of those guys who sit in cubicles and fly predator drones around snuffing people out. Killing people has become a literal video game.

All of this is fine with the faithful. How?
jogill

climber
Colorado
Apr 6, 2013 - 09:02pm PT
Personally (and I'm no wise man), I'd say do everything you can think of. Balls out means let go

With no moral restraints? Hannibal Lector?



;>|
BASE104

Social climber
An Oil Field
Apr 6, 2013 - 09:53pm PT
I lived my younger days like that. I've done so much crazy stuff. My wife doesn't even know all of the crazy stuff that I've done. I collect experiences like some people do coins. I'm just not happy unless I've got some sort of adventure on my mind.

I'm backing out of the pressure cooker now that my son is almost through college. Being a parent is a huge obligation, and I stopped jumping and most climbing after he was born. I had an off heading opening off an antenna, a totally stupid mistake, and flew through the wires and missed hitting one. I got to the ground and was shivering with fear. I had a 3 year old and almost got whacked. The idea of getting whacked had never really bugged me much before that. So I toned it down and went on long hikes and stuff. Not really enough. That is how you get whacked.

Just. Like. That. Happy one minute and toast the next.

I lost half of my knee last year to avascular necrosis of the tibial plateau. I was lucky that they could replace and do a graft. I'll never run or do anymore 3 month solo hikes again, though. Fortunately I have done a lot of sailing lately, and I went out and bought a good small cruiser. There are some smallish (less than 30 feet) boats that have good reputations for crossing oceans and what not, and they aren't necessarily expensive. I picked up mine for 12 grand. I'm going to quit in two years or less and take off. I'm planning on heading to Virginia, where the boat sits, and sail it all summer and beefing it up for a real adventure.

Sailboats get really expensive to maintain when they get to around 4 or 5 tons of displacement. If you keep it small, they are actually really affordable. Cheaper than a new car. I have everything new on this baby, and with minimal work, she will go anywhere that I have the ability to take her. I'm totally stoked. About 18 months from now, I should have the house paid off and will hit the water for good. Maybe I'll find Charlie Porter.

Happy are those who dream dreams and are willing to pay the price to make them come true.
--Carl Boenish

1973 Albin Vega. 27 foot little sucker.
1973 Albin Vega. 27 foot little sucker.
Credit: BASE104

The older boats are snug, but more seaworthy than a lot of modern desi...
The older boats are snug, but more seaworthy than a lot of modern designs. A beamier boat has trouble righting itself after a knockdown.
Credit: BASE104
TomCochrane

Trad climber
Santa Cruz Mountains and Monterey Bay
Apr 6, 2013 - 10:02pm PT
Your boat can take you about anywhere on a planet that is over 70% covered with water.

Two of my NASA JPL colleagues/friends with lots of finger prints on the Mars rovers and space probes, sold their house and took off on their boat, up the coast to San Francisco, and currently in La Paz on the southern end of Baja California:

http://www.grenander.com/Senta_II/Home.html


My youngest brother and his wife and two dogs have lived on their boat for the past couple of years, going all the way up the Columbia River to Lewiston Idaho, exploring the coast of British Columbia and Vancouver Island, currently exploring down the coast of Mexico...


Ward Trotter

Trad climber
Apr 6, 2013 - 10:37pm PT
Base:
CLANE. ( "clean" in So Cal mall-speak)

Taking on crew?

Just asking.
Dr. F.

Big Wall climber
SoCal
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 6, 2013 - 10:51pm PT
Any of you regular thinking folks (not right wingers) have any words about the Philosophical writing of Ayn Rand
Credit: Dr. F.
I haven't read any of it, probably never will

My libertarian friend told me that 148 out 150 Big Name CEOs say that Atlas Shrugged is their favorite book, I responded that 148 out of 150 big name CEOs are also confirmed Sociopaths
Ward Trotter

Trad climber
Apr 6, 2013 - 10:59pm PT
Any of you regular thinking folks (not right wingers) have any words about the Philosophical writing of Ayn Rand

Well..........
Objectivism
Is like schmectivism
Thou can be assured
If the world is all Liberal
Where's the wealth
To come frummmm ?
BASE104

Social climber
An Oil Field
Apr 6, 2013 - 11:05pm PT
I would delete the above post, Dr. F. Ayn Rand deserves her own thread full of political whackos.

Trust me. She is ideological and political. Nothing to do with this thread that I can think of.
Ward Trotter

Trad climber
Apr 7, 2013 - 02:20am PT
Trust me. She is ideological and political. Nothing to do with this thread that I can think of.r

People on this thread ideological and political....pray tell? ..oh banish the thought....
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Apr 7, 2013 - 03:22am PT
How Life May Have First Emerged On Earth: Foldable Proteins in a High-Salt Environment

Interesting observations and research around our proteins being basically composed of 20 common amino acids - ten biosynthetic, ten prebiotic - and whether those ten prebiotic amino acids alone can achieve [protein] 'foldability'.
Dr. F.

Big Wall climber
SoCal
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 7, 2013 - 11:07am PT
If the world is all Liberal
Where's the wealth
To come frummmm ?

Let's see, The Founding Fathers were Progressive liberals
Bill Gates, George Soros, Bloomberg?, and probably 50% the rest of wealth comes from liberals

To say wealth doesn't come from liberals is pure conservative BS propaganda
Do I just suck off the system? Hell NO, even I create wealth.

delete my post Base?
just stirring the pot, that's what i do, I thought you figured that out by now Base, and this talk of mental consciousness is a big yawn for me

My take on Ayn Rand is that she was reacting to Stalin Communism, not liberalism nor socialism
So hence, everything she railed against has been taken out of context is invalid in today's America. One thing for sure, It is completely Anti-Christian, everyone Jesus teachings railed against her type of selfishness and doing good for goodness sake, Jesus died because of the Governing ideologies that she advocated, where the rich and powerful rule, and the rest of the people suffer in poverty and slavery. That is what you get when you let objectivism rule.

The conservatives have just shifted the debate about Ayn Rand, to make it seem that selfishness is a good thing, part of what God would desire, God makes you rich, God showers his favorites with riches, those are God's chosen ones. It just demonstrates that Chrisitans will believe anything that their leaders tell them, no matter how far it is from Jesus' teaching, they just spin it so their followers will accept it as gospel. Just like all the wars that were waged on the word of God.
MikeL

climber
SANTA CLARA, CA
Apr 7, 2013 - 12:00pm PT
With no moral restraints? Hannibal Lector? ;>|

I hear what you're saying, John. Something like that is everyone's concern when one questions autonomy, control, physical cause-and-effect, etc.

If I let go, I won't do anything. If something else is pulling the strings, then do I have free will? If I have no free will or control, then is anything I do without responsibility?

These seem to be paradoxes, but I think they are all simple myths that have no basis in reality. We talk here on this thread all the time about what experts say things really are, how one thing gives rise to another, impossibilities (constraints), improbabilities (statistical occurrences), as well as conceptual ideas like freedom, will, and right and wrong. How many of these ideas / concepts have WE created out of nothing?

Leaving the theoretical aside, I'd say that you cannot be Hannibal Lector. It's not who or what you are. "No matter where you go, there you are" (Buckaroo Banzai). You cannot help but be jogill.

Letting go is not wild abandon that leads to moral turpitude. Letting go simply means relaxing, resting, ease --taking everything easy, gently, lightly.

I think letting go is the gutsiest thing any person can do. That's what I meant to communicate. When one lets go (AA, born again Christians, some spiritual practitioners, folks who have been bended to kowtow by the universe), then all those paradoxes, stories, weird incommensurabilities, Escher-like circularities (Billy Preston above), and optimal illusions come into stark relief.


Base, . . . doesn't that boat give you some respite from stress? I lost my best friend (a very competent and experienced sailor) who lived on his Cal 27 in Dana Point . . . apparently slipped on the dock one night, hit his head, and drowned 10 feet from his boat moored in the slip. Or maybe he was drinking. Found him floating in the water the next morning. Sad. You never know what it's going to be or when. (Anyone who gives that notion complete attention for even a few seconds will have a great meditation going.)
BLUEBLOCR

Social climber
joshua tree
Apr 7, 2013 - 01:46pm PT

wiki Def: Objectivism, NOUN,
(philosophy) One of several doctrines that holds that all of reality is objective and exists outside of the mind.
The specific objectivist philosophy created by novelist Ayn Rand, endorsing productive achievement and logical reasoning.

This seems like a good philosophy for ur cacti. Or maybe the military.
And maybe this works good for you and where ur at today. But how would this work
for ALL people, for the starving children in Africa and India? How does it work for women
throughout the world who are held as second class citizens? How does it work
for the disabled, or refugees, or migrants?

You can't run the world without morals and compassion!
new world order2

climber
Apr 7, 2013 - 02:15pm PT
We each wield enormous power throughout each day of our lives. We control powerful forces of which most of us are totally unaware. Your power can create good or bad future events for yourself, for your friends and family and for all of humanity.

Your subconscious mind is in continuous contact with the subconscious minds of everyone else alive today and possibly with all minds on other planes at all times throughout the universe. The collective subconscious controls the omnipotent, omnipresent quantum field. It envelops everything, powers the atoms and manifests our holographic universe. And, your individual mind, while in the alpha level awareness (daydream state), is your personal control console for the collective subconscious. It’s your key to your personal power and what everyone must learn to control for posterity’s sake.

http://www.wakingtimes.com/2013/04/06/how-we-create-reality/
Ward Trotter

Trad climber
Apr 7, 2013 - 02:37pm PT
Let's see, The Founding Fathers were Progressive liberals

Credit: Ward Trotter

From left to right: Ben Franklin, Thomas Jefferson, John Adams, Dolly Madison.

Behind them the Continental Congress.

BTW I am not a Republican. I like to point out the absurdity of both political persuasions. Much like I do with atheism vs. religiosity.

To say wealth doesn't come from liberals is pure conservative BS propaganda
Do I just suck off the system? Hell NO, even I create wealth.

What I am saying is that the very obvious Achilles heel of American Liberalism, as presently constituted, is not so much that it demonstrates antipathy towards Capitalism, and the private sector in general, but that it elevates an all-powerful federal government to a position of absolute dominance over all and everything. This is a level of dominance that increases daily and is squarely outside of the intentions of those 'progressive' founding fathers- who saw a rather limited role for government.

We are currently living in a socialistic bubble that allows politicians and bureaucrats more and more control over people's lives. The general public seems to get stupider and more ill-informed as time goes on; more complacent , seemingly more accepting of foxes in the hen coup of their own minds .A truly Wernerian stupidity has settled over the land. We are fast becoming Yosemite Valley tourists in our own society.
I don't say that because Liberal Democrats are currently in charge of the chicken coup, I say it because it is everywhere apparent.
Like republicans once upon a time,
democrats got plenty of tricks walkin.
But trust me, this too shall pass
And democrats, like republicans, will have:



Norton

Social climber
the Wastelands
Apr 7, 2013 - 02:46pm PT
Let's see, The Founding Fathers were Progressive liberals

well, obviously they were not 60s tie died "liberals"


but yes, they did support and fight for, "liberal values" and the big one was freedom from King George of England, whom the "conservatives" of that era were afraid of and sided with

among numerous other examples that are easy to look up for oneself
jogill

climber
Colorado
Apr 7, 2013 - 02:51pm PT
Letting go is not wild abandon that leads to moral turpitude. Letting go simply means relaxing, resting, ease --taking everything easy, gently, lightly

Good point, MikeL



;>)
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