Politics, God and Religion vs. Science

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Messages 13101 - 13120 of total 22787 in this topic << First  |  < Previous  |  Show All  |  Next >  |  Last >>
Malemute

Ice climber
the ghost
Feb 26, 2013 - 02:27pm PT
Perhaps that is what is missing here - a physical state, yet unrecognized or defined, that would link the state of "material" to the "spiritual".
Psilocyborg already found it
Bruce Kay

Gym climber
BC
Feb 26, 2013 - 02:51pm PT
are you suggesting that we should be forever stoned?

is this the missing link?


Psilocyborg

climber
Feb 26, 2013 - 02:55pm PT
Credit: Psilocyborg
TomCochrane

Trad climber
Santa Cruz Mountains and Monterey Bay
Feb 26, 2013 - 03:24pm PT
there is no separation between the physical and the spiritual and hence no missing link

there is only creative awareness

you can think about it in many ways, without changing its basic nature and existance

(awareness can be so busy with local thoughts as to obscure the wider dimensions of awareness)
Psilocyborg

climber
Feb 26, 2013 - 03:31pm PT
can we take a break in this discussion and just laugh??

WBraun

climber
Feb 26, 2013 - 03:57pm PT
Mind altering drugs and plants are intoxicants are material and will never lead to the spiritual stratum.

All bonafide spiritual practices condemn drugs.

Otherwise drugs would be God but are not.

Only the imitators of Lord Shiva practice this nonsense.

Lord Shiva could swallow unlimited intoxicants and poisons with no effect at all.

Those who imitate Lord Shiva will run themselves ultimately into ruin .....
Psilocyborg

climber
Feb 26, 2013 - 04:10pm PT
You are so very wrong, but I understand your aversion.

How silly is it when a Christian points to you and calls you a devil worshipper?

You are silly.

You are right however when you say drugs aren't god. I am right when I say meditation isn't god. The funny thing is.....god is everything

All "bona fide" spiritual practices condemn psychedelic plants because they grow freely, like breadcrumbs
Dr. F.

Big Wall climber
SoCal
Topic Author's Reply - Feb 26, 2013 - 04:35pm PT
Credit: Dr. F.
Largo

Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
Feb 26, 2013 - 05:06pm PT
The falacy that a person needs drugs to experience spiritual forces presumes that either spiritual content will bubble up, or the lens of awareness will become especially fly and spiritual with a gut full of peyote or whatever. Both ideas are jive because it's not the content but the source. Many people have brushed this on drugs and found the experience either overwhelming or unsustainable. No viable outfit I have ever heard of subscribes to tripping your way to the Promise Land. That much said, ashrans and Zendos have always been full of drunks.

It's tricky out there - like a mossy offwidth too wide for cams.

JL
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Feb 26, 2013 - 05:07pm PT
Werner: All bonafide spiritual practices condemn drugs.

Largo: No viable outfit I have ever heard of subscribes to tripping your way to the Promise Land.

The spiritual rituals of many peoples around the world include drug use. In fact, one has to wonder whether the Vedas would exist at all without them.

In the Vedas, the drink, and the plant refer to the same entity. Drinking Soma produces immortality. Indra and Agni are portrayed as consuming Soma in copious quantities. The consumption of Soma by human beings is well attested in Vedic ritual.

The Rigveda (8.48.3) states:
a ápāma sómam amŕtā abhūmâganma jyótir ávidāma devân
c kíṃ nūnám asmân kṛṇavad árātiḥ kím u dhūrtír amṛta mártyasya

We have drunk Soma and become immortal; we have attained the light, the Gods discovered. Now what may foeman's malice do to harm us? What, O Immortal, mortal man's deception?

So you may really may want to rethink those particular chunks of dogmatic nonsense and maybe even reconsider why you both seem to have such a strong need for spirituality to flow from the structured teachings of 'masters' and authoritative 'outfits'. It's really the antithesis of many native cultures around the world, but then again, many of those do lack the bona fides which obviously flow from advanced outfittery. Personally I find such perspectives arrogant, utterly stifling, highly [and artificially] constrained and constraining.
Malemute

Ice climber
the ghost
Feb 26, 2013 - 05:26pm PT
are you suggesting that we should be forever stoned?
whatever it takes to enter a state of "suspension of disbelief" ie gullibility
WBraun

climber
Feb 26, 2013 - 05:50pm PT
healyje Google's and then decides he knows what's going on.

Then decides he knows what Soma-rasa is.

Soma is not found on this planet.

It is consumed by the demigods in the upper planetary systems.

Soma-rasa is not the same as you are perceiving in relations to drugs and intoxicants on this planet.

This is what happens when mental speculators like healyje and Psilocyborg who love drugs and believe they can lead to liberation.

Even the dog Malemute got it correctly ......



Dr. F.

Big Wall climber
SoCal
Topic Author's Reply - Feb 26, 2013 - 06:11pm PT
Soma is not found on this planet.

It is consumed by the demigods in the upper planetary systems.
TFPU
can you provide a link
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Feb 26, 2013 - 06:14pm PT
Werner: Soma is not found on this planet.

Dude, where exactly do you come up with utterly delusional bullshit like this? Let me guess, years of study and astral projection?

My dogma is pure, my dogma is perfect, my dogma must be protected...

You need wind your dastar a little looser and get a new dogma.
MH2

climber
Feb 26, 2013 - 06:14pm PT
jstan has it right but JL made a good effort.

There is no possibility of bringing science and raw experience into any kind of conflict.
Dr. F.

Big Wall climber
SoCal
Topic Author's Reply - Feb 26, 2013 - 06:22pm PT
raw experience???

tell us your experience, and then science will take a look see
Dr. F.

Big Wall climber
SoCal
Topic Author's Reply - Feb 26, 2013 - 06:34pm PT
Werner
Tell us more about these upper planetary systems

WBraun

climber
Feb 26, 2013 - 06:47pm PT
Tell us more about these upper planetary systems

And then your so called science will judge, you forgot to add.
Norton

Social climber
the Wastelands
Feb 26, 2013 - 06:57pm PT

Definition of 'Hubris'

The characteristic of excessive confidence or arrogance, which leads a person to believe that he or she may do no wrong.
cintune

climber
The Utility Muffin Research Kitchen
Feb 26, 2013 - 07:10pm PT
This thread is just so endlessly entertaining.

Especially liked the counterpoint a page or so back with the ice cube sublimating in outer space while Largo grokked on mushin. Priceless conceptual juxtaposition there.
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