Politics, God and Religion vs. Science

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Messages 13061 - 13080 of total 22349 in this topic << First  |  < Previous  |  Show All  |  Next >  |  Last >>
Dr. F.

Big Wall climber
SoCal
Topic Author's Reply - Mar 31, 2013 - 11:49pm PT
Not dead, more alive than the brain dead zombies that believe in fairy tales, elves, goblins and Gods running the universe,
though they can't point a single one, or a single thing that they affect
They have given up thinking for themselves, and rely on stories from books they read of a magical candy land of make believe

What stuff is God doing that can be detected, measured??
Huh?? Name it?

Answer the question, and get a Nobel Prize.

But you can't because God doesn't do anything, he is a figment of your wild imagination

That we can measure, and yours if off the charts
WBraun

climber
Mar 31, 2013 - 11:56pm PT
Yes we measure how big your dead brain is.

Not very difficult.

Even a child and grandma can do it.

Even a trained monkey can do it .......
Dr. F.

Big Wall climber
SoCal
Topic Author's Reply - Mar 31, 2013 - 11:58pm PT
so no answer, just some more BS blather
I'm Not supprised,
BLUEBLOCR

Social climber
joshua tree
Apr 1, 2013 - 12:00am PT
Drf
But some people believe God made everything out of nothing,

Not out of Nothin, But out of Love.
How could everything be created out of Love? That's the question!
BASE104

Social climber
An Oil Field
Apr 1, 2013 - 12:01am PT
Scientism ~ the belief that the methods of measuring, or the categories and things described through measuring, form the only real and legitimate elements in any philosophical or other inquiry, and that science alone describes the world as it is in itself, independent of perspective, with a concomitant elimination of the psychological dimensions of experience.

This was the statement that JL originally brought up. I read it again, with at least a little newly found perspective of this thread. We have covered a lot of ground in almost 2 years.

I've gotta go back to work. That will no doubt please some of you.

I feel a wave of evangelism is coming. The harmonic tremors just started.
Dr. F.

Big Wall climber
SoCal
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 1, 2013 - 12:23am PT
Love isn't something that material things like stars and matter can be made of
so your logic doesn't hold up
Just more candy land fantasy BS
Largo

Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
Apr 1, 2013 - 12:28am PT
I'm still upset about Largo having others tell him things to post. Why did he do that? I have been suspecting as much since this whole thing started, and he finally admitted it.

The part about Ed "Not understanding it because he is over forty." is a total stab in the back.
-

That's right BASE, I just cut and past EVERYTHING I've ever written here from some expert, er, scientist, LOL. Sort of like people making sweeping conclusions about subjective adventures having never put in the work, believing that a few quips from there discursive minds will clear the flotsam once and for all. Then acting as though this all were perfectly so. This is shaming the subject and you know it. Shame is you sell yourself short in the process.

And who's been razing me from the beginning with all sorts of silly metaphors and so forth? One snipe from my friend at Ed for being my age is lightweight stuff. Everything is fair game here. Man up, or rap off.

Oh and this:

But some people believe God made everything out of nothing. . .

Sort of like DNA arose out of nothing - just super slowly. And by the way - WHAT went bang? LOL

JL
BLUEBLOCR

Social climber
joshua tree
Apr 1, 2013 - 12:44am PT

Love isn't something that material things like stars and matter can be made of
so your logic doesn't hold up
Just more candy land fantasy BS

Tell me the "Love" you have for your mommie, your wife, your flowers.
Isnt Real?

Edit: at what point did u guys start this thread at?
BLUEBLOCR

Social climber
joshua tree
Apr 1, 2013 - 12:53am PT
Randomivity pointing towards posivity
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Potemkin Village
Apr 1, 2013 - 12:55am PT
I've stated many times that our understanding of these types of physical systems, let's just say "life," will probably require physics we don't know yet

Meh.

Analytical bioengineering... not physics... will be the key to understanding behind such phenomena as consciousness.
Psilocyborg

climber
Apr 1, 2013 - 12:55am PT
Dr F, its really too bad you refuse to drink the koolaid. As much as you despise spirituality, it adds an extra dimension to life.....a little spice in your coffee. I just got to ask.....why not?

Belief is a powerful thing. It trumps fact. The earth was flat. Then it was round. That is the power of belief.

BLUEBLOCR

Social climber
joshua tree
Apr 1, 2013 - 01:01am PT
Jus to be faIr, Drf doesn't answer questions that make "sense"
Only the ones that are "scientific"?
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Potemkin Village
Apr 1, 2013 - 01:08am PT
Blu, you are an embarrassment to any science discussion. Even those on a climbing site.

Then again, I suspect you're proud of this. Hasta.
BLUEBLOCR

Social climber
joshua tree
Apr 1, 2013 - 01:16am PT
Meh ^^^^^
Coming from a spiritual standpoint , I'm only trying to meet you at your material Plateau


Edit: post number 14777, that must be lucky?

2nd. Edit: When in Rome...
MH2

climber
Apr 1, 2013 - 01:44am PT
JL,

You are the one proposing that subjective experience cannot be accounted for by what neurons do.

I take the view that we can learn more about how the nervous system works and that we may achieve an understanding of consciousness as largely if not entirely a product of neuronal activity.

I have no need to prove that subjective experience and consciousness are produced by the brain. I simply don't see any good reason why that could not be the case.

However, I must point out that the brain's usefulness to an organism depends on its ability to build models of the world around it, so it may be tricky to locate "consciousness". How much of your brain is actually a representation of the world you grew up and live in? I don't think that your skin is the boundary of your "self." Information has flowed into you and out of you and influenced who you are.

To go back to an example of subjective experience:

Say you put your hand in water. If the water is warm or cold you will feel that immediately, If you leave your hand in the water for 5 or 10 minutes, it will not feel as warm or cold as it did initially (unless it is dangerously hot or cold). The water stays the same temperature but your experience of it changes. This experience can be understood as a consequence of how neurons are reacting.

Other kinds of subjective experience have been studied, too. With this kind of approach to subjective experience we gradually learn more about it. How far we can go is something we can only find out by trying.
BLUEBLOCR

Social climber
joshua tree
Apr 1, 2013 - 01:54am PT
10-4 Mh2
R U in the>40 or <40 era?
BASE104

Social climber
An Oil Field
Apr 1, 2013 - 02:39am PT
Before I move on, I have to address this "vomit" post. A vomit post is my newly coined word for "I've had enough and here it is!" I'm not pure. I've done it as well.

That's right BASE, I just cut and past EVERYTHING I've ever written here from some expert, er, scientist,

I think it goes a little further than cut and paste. You are parroting other people on purpose, just to poke Ed.

You get a catchy word such as Hilbert Space and toss it around like it is your best friend. That is just stupid. Who here understands Hilbert Space? I'd guess it would be Gill, JStan, Ed, maybe a couple of others. All of them scientists of some sort.

LOL. Sort of like people making sweeping conclusions about subjective adventures having never put in the work, believing that a few quips from there discursive minds will clear the flotsam once and for all.

Define discursive.

As for experience, I'm pretty confident that I have you beat in that realm.

Using a proxy to attack Ed was childish. It was a childish act. Telling a physicist that he is over the hill is also pretty f*#king rude.

Oh and this:

But some people believe God made everything out of nothing. . .

Sort of like DNA arose out of nothing - just super slowly. And by the way - WHAT went bang? LOL

Did you just cough up a hairball, there? Did "I" say this?

Dude. Your cup is full right now. Don't crack on us.

Go back to the start. That is why I posted the original post. Nobody knows the origins of what we keep talking about.

John. I'm not even saying that you are wrong here. I'm saying that playing physicist doesn't work.

BASE104

Social climber
An Oil Field
Apr 1, 2013 - 04:29am PT
OK. My short theory.

Humans are animals. It is pretty foolish to ignore this, because it gives us a lot of good clues. After all, we share many similarities.

We have not changed anatomically in almost 200,000 years. We didn't settle down into fixed agrarian groups until 12,000 years ago.

We have brains with larger problem solving and language abilities than our ancestors. Other than that, we are physically inferior to pretty much all predators.

Our brain anatomy isn't unusual in its parts. Those are shared with most mammals. The difference is in the size of certain parts. That is probably the only evolutionary advantage that we had over predators.

Consciousness arises at or around birth. Your memory of your first few years vanishes, so the brain is developing rapidly as a young child. To think that consciousness is not an emerged quality isn't logical. We don't see children who are born with the ability to solve fantastic cosmology problems. It comes with time. We know about brain development after birth, and I've read that it continues until the early teens.

I do know that children are far more sensitive to lead exposure than adults. It can cause severe brain damage.

I see no reason to think that it is any more complicated than that.
Dr. F.

Big Wall climber
SoCal
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 1, 2013 - 12:06pm PT
Psilocyborg

I drank the koolaid for about 20 years of my life!

I was raised Methodist, but became an atheist at the age of reason, 7
Then started meditating, and turned into a New Age Guru, trying to link science with the other side, fields, spirits, and One Great God

My mind could find all kinds of ways to make it work, none of them truly scientific, more like Werner's God is everywhere ideology, but kind of sciency

But then I read some skeptical literature, and Finally something came along that challenged my belief system, No one really did that to me before, challenge my view of reality, I wish they had, most people just supported my belief system and thought it was a good thing.

I pretty much changed over night to a raging atheist, I could see how easy it was to dupe oneself into forming beliefs and how just normal coincidences can be interpreted as Messages from God or whatever

every thing I thought was a Heavy spiritual experience was just A Human experience, nothing was really coming from the other side, my mind just thought it was.

Reality Only makes complete sense when you rid yourself of false beliefs, it's Freeing at every Mental level
Dr. F.

Big Wall climber
SoCal
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 1, 2013 - 12:11pm PT
Love is just an emotion that evolved with the higher animals so they would bond to their offspring and mates. It is Not an universal energy of some sort.

I can tell you one thing, There IS NO LOVE in the center of the sun, deep space, or at an event horizon.

Saying God creating the Universe is just a way of saying you believe in Magic, Our Universe was created and is operated By Pure Magic.
And you are satisfied not knowing how the magic works, You want to be deceived.
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