Politics, God and Religion vs. Science

Search
Go

Discussion Topic

Return to Forum List
Post a Reply
Messages 13061 - 13080 of total 22713 in this topic << First  |  < Previous  |  Show All  |  Next >  |  Last >>
Malemute

Ice climber
the ghost
Feb 25, 2013 - 11:09am PT
http://www.landoverbaptist.org/
bookworm

Social climber
Falls Church, VA
Feb 25, 2013 - 11:11am PT
only two of the title elements affirm the value of all life:

http://washingtonexaminer.com/tim-carney-an-awful-loss-a-beautiful-life-a-daunting-task/article/2522421?utm_source=Washington%20Examiner:%20Opinion%20Digest%20-%2002/25/2013&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Washington%20Examiner:%20Opinion%20Digest

BASE104

Social climber
An Oil Field
Feb 25, 2013 - 12:38pm PT
Healyje wrote: As for other folks' experience with meditation, you make a lot of assumptions, which you have all along, which are presumptuous at best, arrogant at worst.

JL, sorry, but you do belittle people who either don't agree with you or don't understand what you are saying. Your post above is one of the most revealing admissions of what you are up to, what you are trying to learn..all of it.

If you would paint a coherent picture of what you are studying, what you have learned, what it is that makes you so convinced, it would be some great reading for me, at least. I feel like you have been holding your cards close to your chest since this discussion began.

Us gross materialists have lives and loves and insight that is probably higher than your average spiritualist. Why? We are OCD curious.

Teach us something. Don't expect us to invent the wheel when you already know how.
BASE104

Social climber
An Oil Field
Feb 25, 2013 - 12:46pm PT
Go-B, come back, brother. This is the internet where people say things that they wouldn't dream of face to face.

Just forget them and keep on posting. You have never been rude in any way.

99% of us get it. Post away, my friend.

I feel really bad that you split.
TomCochrane

Trad climber
Santa Cruz Mountains and Monterey Bay
Feb 25, 2013 - 01:08pm PT
Yes, go-B, don't stay away...
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Feb 25, 2013 - 01:13pm PT
Go-B, definitely come back, but please just come back as you with your own words and personal take on things rather than the bible.
jogill

climber
Colorado
Feb 25, 2013 - 01:16pm PT
Imagine trying to learn climbing if you had to work the whole shebang up from scratch?

I assume you mean this would be a marvelous experience that is virtually impossible to have today. Not all delight is spun from the wheel of competition.
jstan

climber
Feb 25, 2013 - 01:49pm PT
Imagine trying to learn climbing if you had to work the whole shebang up from scratch?

In this pursuit one is constantly facing new things unprepared. When you have had to figure things out yourself from scratch you have a track record. In the next new situation you can look back at the last sixty times you figured things out well and have some confidence the sixty first situation is just more of the same.

You have some really good data.
Largo

Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
Feb 25, 2013 - 02:24pm PT
My point is vouchsafed by most every professional scientist you have ever known, few of whom will begrudge themselves for going to school and studying under acknowledged experts, and completing a scholastic curriculum, however grave and tedious.

A dedicated student could possibly learn the same material on their own, but the scholastic path is surely more efficient - we can easily see why.

Especially so with spiritual practices, we all have massive blind spots and come to depend on our peers for course correction. Combining our own data with others is an excellent concept. As mentioned, the glory of doing it all on your own is a common delusion. In my experience, "soft mentoring" is invaluable, since ones works 99% it out on their own anyhow.

It's not all or nothing, or it shouldn't be. And that 1% we get from others can prove an invaluable tipping point.

JL
Norton

Social climber
the Wastelands
Feb 25, 2013 - 02:33pm PT
Gobee left?

Go-B, definitely come back, but please just come back as you with your own words and personal take on things rather than the bible.

I second this request, I like Gobee!
Norton

Social climber
the Wastelands
Feb 25, 2013 - 02:38pm PT
Maybe I AM too closed minded to get really into it, but I would like to learn a little....

So John Long, how about it?

I am joining those who are asking you give us a briefing on what benefit and methodology you attain and use in your inner pursuits?

seriously, as I know nothing at all about this

too bad you can't do a quick Vulcan Mind Meld on us!
Jan

Mountain climber
Okinawa, Japan
Feb 25, 2013 - 04:15pm PT
For those interested in a non religious consideration of reincarnation, the classic in this regard is:

Twenty Cases Suggestive of Reincarnation, 2nd ed. by Ian Stevenson

http://www.amazon.com/Twenty-Cases-Suggestive-Reincarnation-Enlarged/dp/0813908728/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1361837302&sr=1-1&keywords=Cases+Suggestive+of+Reincarnation
Dr. F.

Big Wall climber
SoCal
Topic Author's Reply - Feb 25, 2013 - 05:24pm PT
go-b will be back

and I will be here,
on and off
Dr. F.

Big Wall climber
SoCal
Topic Author's Reply - Feb 25, 2013 - 05:30pm PT
What would be cool is if!!!!
some one can outline a good explanation of what the hell they are talking about, that would enlighten us skeptics of our delusion.

It's a challenge of biblical proportions

If I was on the their side, I would take it on enthusiastically, like a new 5 star FA I just found.

I can answer almost any question, using science as the authority, go ahead, ask me any question, I will answer it, with some semblance of using science, that science has the explanation for your question. Ed can officiate if I run in to trouble.

You have offered little in comparison.

Shouldn't you take on every challenge when it comes to be completely truthful in your belief system?
Should you test your belief system?


edit
of ccurse I have to back peddle

Any question about spirits, souls , Gods, the bible, and the questions that have already been addressed, etc.
within reason of scientific speculation.
Dr. F.

Big Wall climber
SoCal
Topic Author's Reply - Feb 25, 2013 - 05:36pm PT
Credit: Dr. F.
go-B

climber
Hebrews 1:3
Feb 25, 2013 - 05:53pm PT
Thanks, for your thoughts for Peanut and I, jogill, Bruce Kay, BLUEBLOCR , Jan, MH2, BASE104, TomCochrane, healyje, Norton, and Dr. F.!

BLUEBLOCR sorry for your loss of your bestbuddy Jake "Redblocr" as well, and your right about their eyes, so in the moment and so cool...

photo not found
Missing photo ID#291594
photo not found
Missing photo ID#291596
photo not found
Missing photo ID#291598
photo not found
Missing photo ID#291599

At four pounds, he was a BIG DUDE!



jogill

climber
Colorado
Feb 25, 2013 - 05:54pm PT
My point is vouchsafed by most every professional scientist you have ever known . . .

Just pulling your leg, JL (whoops, bad metaphor!)

I know a little bit about Zen and your admonition is right on.

On the other hand Psilocyborg encourages immediate immersion using drugs. Perhaps you could discuss the merits of these two approaches to enlightenment. He claims that creativity and discovery spring from some inner dimension. I still suspect all such visions are the product of uninhibited mind gathering bits and pieces from memories and reassembling them in phantasmagorical scenarios. But he may be correct; the older I become the less I know.

(what a sweetheart, go-b!)

;>)
Dr. F.

Big Wall climber
SoCal
Topic Author's Reply - Feb 25, 2013 - 06:14pm PT
Here's another angle..
Tell us what science can't explain

Let's discuss
Dr. F.

Big Wall climber
SoCal
Topic Author's Reply - Feb 25, 2013 - 06:36pm PT
One other post
I wanted to start a thread on the subject...!!!!

What I don't believe
but I already have enough threads here

so maybe we can discuss this on this thread

What I don't believe:

I start off with a easy one

Ice in space??? How can that work. Isn't that how freeze drying works, all water molecules sublimate under a vacuum.

Dark Matter/Dark energy: ?? just because some equation needs dark matter and energy to work, we have to invent something that we can't measure or figure out what it is??
Isn't it possible that the equation is wrong, and maybe that we will figure out another possibility in the future?
If dark matter was all the space material that we can't see, but is regular solid matter, then I could accept it, there are alot of planets out there orbiting all those billions of stars, but they say that doesn't count as dark matter??

Is it good that a bunch of right wing yahoos are arming themselves to the gills to take on the perceived tyrannical Gov?
No, this will end in disaster!!

I have a couple more, I will post them soon

any one else

Is there something that You Do Not Believe.
MH2

climber
Feb 25, 2013 - 09:13pm PT
Thanks again, Jan. Ian Stevenson is someone worth knowing about. I am curious how it occurred to him that birthmarks might be wounds acquired in a previous life. Perhaps it was the LSD.

From his Wikipedia entry I read that Dr. Stevenson found examples of behavior and anatomy that he felt could not be explained by heredity or environment and that reincarnation was a possible explanation. The book on twenty cases was published in 1966 and there may have been some changes since then in what we think is possible in biology.

However, from the perspective of science, which Dr. Stevenson wanted to present his cases to, there is no reliable way to estimate the probability of what he described. Unusual, yes. Improbable enough to seriously consider an explanation like reincarnation? Who knows? If only one of those children, who often described a violent end to their previous life, could have provided evidence good enough to solve an old murder case.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ian_Stevenson
Messages 13061 - 13080 of total 22713 in this topic << First  |  < Previous  |  Show All  |  Next >  |  Last >>
Return to Forum List
Post a Reply
 
Our Guidebooks
Check 'em out!
SuperTopo Guidebooks


Try a free sample topo!

 
SuperTopo on the Web

Review Categories
Recent Route Beta
Recent Gear Reviews