"My teaching is not my own. It comes from him who sent me. If anyone chooses to do God's will, he will find out whether my teaching comes from God or whether I speak on my own."—John 7:16
Man’s Radical Falleness
How far did man fall in the Garden? How has sin penetrated into our souls? Learn what Jesus Himself had to say about sin’s effects.
as i have mentioned before, it would really be rather nice and cozy if the so-called 'conventional' views of American society really were true to reality
and i sincerely wish some of these conventional viewpoints within which i was raised as a child were true...whether religious or scientific or even traditional mythologies
unfortunately there are insurmountable problems with these sorts of conventional viewpoints, whether theistic or scientific or atheistic based
IMHO these conventional viewpoints are only marginally distinguishable from the beliefs in some obscure village where the norm is worshiping clay idols
there is far too much actual hard repeatable observable data that just doesn't support such views
fanatical disinformation and falsification campaigns by officially sanctioned authorities doesn't change this
it is only possible to maintain one of our conventional accepted viewpoints by remaining myopic within a narrow carefully-controlled society, while ignoring immense amounts of contrary information
even the most carefully peer-reviewed and sanctioned scientific levels of understanding blow away such conventional views of reality
and the obsession by officially sanctioned authorities to label immense amounts of information as top secret does not bode well for supporting such conventional views of reality
what are they really trying to hide??
perhaps they are merely trying to obscure crimes such as Federal Reserve Board fraud, election fraud, fraudulent tax levies, banking fraud, stock market manipulation, discreditable military secrets, intelligence agency torture and sanctioning, military/industrial acquisitions and contracts fraud, inconvenient scientific research results, and the like
personally i believe most all of that, while discreditable, is just obfuscation of what is really being obsessively hidden
it is interesting and worthwhile in a forum such as this, to discuss the extent and limits of what we can observe
however assuming that we understand the basic nature of reality from our limited extent of knowledge, to the exclusion of the opinions of others, and obsessively defending one or another of these conventional viewpoints is just childish
Have you ever been around Werner in person? I haven't for 25 years, and even then I was a nobody, but somebody always asked where he was headed in the morning when he took off in his convertible (that didn't have a roof), maroon land ship car.
He always said, "I'm going to solo the Gripper."
I remember one time when I was just standing around in the C4 parking lot, and Werner was eating this big bowl of raw spinach. He turns around and says, "Eat your spinach and you can be an Astroman too."
Pretty funny. Never a mean guy. He is just yanking our chains. Kinda like that poor fellow who just popped onto this thread and asked if any of us knew who Sam Harris was. HFCS asked if he was a climber.
Boy, this thread has wandered off in all sorts of deeper directions than what I encounter in my daily life. It is easy to troll, though. It is amazing how civil it is. Everyone thinks before they say anything.
Then go rent a movie like "Twister." It requires the mind of a two year old child to understand. Almost all communication that we humans receive from each other is so dumbed down. It has always been that way.
It is easy to prey on the ignorance of others. We see it happening all around us every day.
They don't reveal themselves to your limited speculations and projections that you put on them.
They are as they are not how you think they are ......
Werner, some of our friends never got over their childhood experience of avoiding stepping on a worm on the sidewalk, and then noticing the worm didn't properly appreciate the honor of being spared in the presence of a vastly superior intellect
And the worm, not having observed the child, has no reason to believe in children, and thus feels safe in denying their existence...
In March 2009, Libby Phelps Alvarez left the Westboro Baptist Church, saying goodbye to a life of picketing the funerals of dead soldiers and holding up controversial anti-gay signs.
Nearly four years later, the granddaughter of Fred Phelps, Sr., founder and pastor of the Westboro Baptist Church, gave an emotional interview to NBC's "Today Show," in which she described the controlling life of hatred and intolerance that she's left behind.
"They think that they are the only ones who are going to heaven and if you don't go to that church you're going to hell,” Alvarez told "Today," explaining that the congregation was driven primarily by its homophobic views.
Phelps Alvarez says she recalls a particular moment when she began to feel she could no longer support the group's efforts.
“There was a point when we started praying for people to die,” Phelps Alvarez said. “I didn't actually do that but I was around when they did it.”
She's talked about that behavior before. Soon after leaving the congregation, Phelps Alvarez gave a radio interview in which she recalled being forced to "pray for people to die."
Phelps Alvarez isn't the only one to escape the tightly-knit, secretive church, which the Southern Poverty Law Center has described as a cult and hate group. Among former members is Nate Phelps, son of Pastor Fred Phelps Sr., who has spoken openly against some of Westboro's most high-profile demonstrations. In December, he publicly condemned its announced plans to picket the funerals of victims in the mass shooting at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, Conn.
I'm still thinking about the Cambridge University debate video that fructose posted where the proposition was "religion has no place in the 21st century".
Here are some phrases that stood out for me:
"The truth claims of God vs. Atheism have no bearing on whether organized religion should exist in the 21st century".
"The point is not whether religion is true or not, but that religion started telling people what to do and propagated violence against them".
"Religion is not true but it can carry truth".
"Science doesn't need to attack God; attacking religion is sufficient".
"Religion may not know more about God than science but surely knows more about human nature and how to change it".
And you're a terrible scientist with no good brain as usual.
As a human.... can you say which is correct? (as if there is a correct answer..)
Another thought:
Fools who seek the answer to the question: What is death?
For a better time in this life (the only life you will ever know) do not think on these things... Spend your time not in the closet in worship (nor on a street corner like it says in your "holy book") but more in living a life worth living.
Christopher Hitchins crime was that he showed no deference to the authority of Religion.
If he had had the good grace to go ahead and criticize yet allow them to retain the illusion of moral superiority (and by extension subjugation) he would have been like all the rest of us - annoying but ultimately no challenge. Because he demonstrated the true extent of the unethical behavior of the church and identified it in no uncertain terms he certainly was a challenge - a challenge that could only be met in the end with the accusation of disrespect, as if that is the worst thing that could be proven!
you look at the faces of his debating foes and uniformly they were capable of only showing shocked outrage or perhaps deflecting attempts at belittling humor, but they could never deny the truth of his observations.
Now as for whether the populations of the world can actually handle the truth, good question.
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As a human.... can you say which is correct? (as if there is a correct answer..)
Let us know!