Politics, God and Religion vs. Science

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BASE104

Social climber
An Oil Field
Mar 24, 2013 - 02:26pm PT
BB?

I think that you would find the Universe a far more interesting place if you just adjusted some very old biblical verses. You certainly don't live according to all of those whacky rules in Leviticus.

So you have the Big Bang. Just say that God pushed the button. That would probably be OK, although some physicists do study what it would be like prior to the Big Bang.

There is more evidence for a Big Bang than just a red shifted expanding universe. There is also the microwave background radiation, which I believe was predicted before it was found.

Another rule to follow:

Absence of Evidence Is Not Evidence For Absence.
locker

Social climber
Some Rehab in Bolivia
Mar 24, 2013 - 02:31pm PT

THREAD DRIFT:

"Locker,
You and Blitzo should've just stayed at my house. I was going to show you
some fun FA's right across the street.."
...


BLUEBLOCR...

You MUST have forgotten that I OFFERED at least THREE times to go slam those suckers in with you...

However, you NEVER responded or appeared interested...

Perhaps it was due to the GUDs I came by with...

LOL!!!...





EDITED:

PS...

It was good seeing you man!!!...


Marlow

Sport climber
OSLO
Mar 24, 2013 - 04:03pm PT
About Satan in America: http://www.amazon.com/Satan-America-Devil-We-Know/dp/0742561720/ref=sr_1_3?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1364154778&sr=1-3&keywords=the+devil+we+know

"Satan in America tells the story of America's complicated relationship with the devil. 'New light' evangelists of the eighteenth century, enslaved African Americans, demagogic politicians, and modern American film-makers have used the devil to damn their enemies, explain the nature of evil and injustice, mount social crusades, construct a national identity, and express anxiety about matters as diverse as the threat of war to the dangers of deviant sexuality. W. Scott Poole's book shows that both the range and the scope of American religiousness made theological evil an especially potent symbol. Satan appears repeatedly on the political, religious, and cultural landscape of the United States, a shadow self to the sunny image of American progress and idealism."
BLUEBLOCR

Social climber
joshua tree
Mar 24, 2013 - 04:38pm PT

the range and the scope of American religiousness made theological evil an especially potent symbol. Satan appears repeatedly on the political, religious, and cultural landscape of the United States, a shadow self to the sunny image of American progress and idealism."

Yea, America may be the "new Babaylon " predicted in the book of Revelation.
Which says the people of Babylon grew to love the world and idols( which means material things) more than they loved the creator and provider of these things. Hence they were drawn
into sexual perversion because they knew not Love.
BASE104

Social climber
An Oil Field
Mar 24, 2013 - 05:46pm PT
Yep. God god mad at Onan for punishing his unit all of the time.

Everyone. Stop that. No more apple bobbing, either.
cintune

climber
The Utility Muffin Research Kitchen
Mar 24, 2013 - 06:01pm PT
That does seem to be a repeating pattern:

Create Everything > Get Mad At It.
BASE104

Social climber
An Oil Field
Mar 24, 2013 - 07:09pm PT
That is going to go into my great quotes category.

I'm telling you guys. Go read the second book in the Bible, Leviticus.

Skip to the second half. The first half is almost entirely devoted to the rules about sacrificing animals and giving burnt offerings.

I never did like the old testament. The new testament has a totally different tone.
Dr. F.

Big Wall climber
SoCal
Topic Author's Reply - Mar 24, 2013 - 09:43pm PT
No one needs to read the Bible

and that's not because it's basically unreadable as a readable book

It's just an old piece of fiction that cultists have made into their gospel,
no one would convert to Christianity if they read it, it doesn't have any authority as being truthful or the Only possible way to God except for those already converted

there are 1000s of other religions that have a better grasp on reality, and would be a better choice for anyone that wants to be a God believer
BLUEBLOCR

Social climber
joshua tree
Mar 24, 2013 - 10:40pm PT
The Bible says it is THE way to eternal life.

Where else anywhere do you see that advertising?
Don Paul

Big Wall climber
Colombia, South America
Mar 24, 2013 - 10:49pm PT
Today I tried to read hardcore physics to understand what you all are talking about. Base104 I think you should investigate further into the cosmic radiation, which was the base level background noise in a radio telescope. Even if it is proof there is a constant background radiation level in the universe, so what? It's a big jump from there to the big bang.

JStanndard, I think I found the string theory video you wanted me to watch. If they just said it was an entity with 10 independent (orthogonal) variables I would be fine, but calling them dimensions is disturbing. If you need to add these imaginary dimensions, its pretty good evidnece that your theory is wrong. It seems to me that the crazier a modern physics theory is, the more the physicists want to believe it. They have their own cultish ways. I liked the description of subatomic particles as vibrational modes of the same thing, if its true.

Note that Einstein himself wrote his theories believing in the steady state model of the universe, and other people have associated general relativity with the big bang, not him. That shouldn't prove anything, though. Even if the smartest guy in the world thought of it, it would still sound dumb.
Norton

Social climber
the Wastelands
Mar 24, 2013 - 10:59pm PT
Hi Don Paul

do I understand you correct that it is your considered opinion that the world's smartest asto scientists have got it wrong when they conclude the universe's expansion and dating indicates a big bang type beginning?

if that is your conclusion of them all being wrong, then what is yours?

and if I read your post wrong, my apologies
Don Paul

Big Wall climber
Colombia, South America
Mar 24, 2013 - 11:00pm PT
Yep, I'm more into the steady state theory.
Norton

Social climber
the Wastelands
Mar 24, 2013 - 11:15pm PT
mind explaining to me what the steady state theory of the universe is?

does that mean it has no beginning, just always was the way it is now?


thanks
Largo

Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
Mar 25, 2013 - 12:23am PT
http://discovermagazine.com/2010/oct/13-neil-turok-universe-has-no-beginning-or-end#.UU_P3RzUmSo

A cyclical view of the infinite arising and falling of forms, including our universe as we know it, is starting to get some traction with even with some physicists.

JL
BLUEBLOCR

Social climber
joshua tree
Mar 25, 2013 - 01:06am PT
^^^ I couldn't even read past this....,
the universe emerged from a point of infinite density and temperatureówhatís known as the initial singularity.

I mean " infinite density"?,, doesn't seem like these two words work together?

But "infinite temperature"?

I can imagine one day long ago. When the entire universe was void of all energies.
And all the matter laid on a linear plane. Was without form. No movement. No time.

So how could there be ANY temperature?

I'll go read on.

Edit:
We are now close to having the first mathematically and logically complete, consistent description of the passage of a universe through a singularity.
OK that's enough. I guess i'm stupid?
Don Paul

Big Wall climber
Colombia, South America
Mar 25, 2013 - 07:46am PT
Yes, that's enough. If that's what your theory requires, you have a problem. Physicists seem to like these kind of results, but they should be disturbed by them. Also, there seem to be two related ideas that people use interchangeably. One is that everything is moving away from the point where the bang occured, just like an explosion. The second is that space itself is expanding rather than things moving though space. The second one may be true or may just require some tweaking of relativity, but its not the big bang theory.

JL, the reason some people believe the big bang has to be cyclical, is that if you believe in the big bang the obvious question is, how did the universe get to be an infinitely small point? How did it get that way? Kind of like if you believe God created everything, what created God? So having a universe that expands and contracts like that in a cycle makes a little more sense, but only a little, since it still requires you to accept so many impossible things. That is the hallmark of relgious dogma, by the way. Ed, since you obviously have physics training it would be great if someone could explain all this in layman's terms. As far as I can tell the only real evidence are the red shifts, which become "Hubble's Law", and when you put a few simple geometry and calculus (dx/dy) ideas into it, you can derive some equations that seem to provide credibility. However, it's all based on the assumption that the red shifts are caused by the doppler effect, which is the fatal flaw in the idea. The cosmic background experiments are not convincing at all. Hey, I'm not the one arguing that the universe was once a tiny point of infinite density, and then all the animals and whatnot sprang forth when it exploded. If you're going to believe that, why not believe in all of creationism?
Don Paul

Big Wall climber
Colombia, South America
Mar 25, 2013 - 10:57am PT
It should be all the differences in energies among the orbitals of the electron. There's more than one wavelength. So I suppose if there is a doppler effect, it would be different for the different wavelengths in the spectrum. Is that what you mean, that red shifts are observed in multiple emission lines of hydrogen, and the only way to reconcile them is the doppler effect?
BASE104

Social climber
An Oil Field
Mar 25, 2013 - 11:39am PT
I think that you are trying to tell us all about absorption spectroscopy.

Go wiki it up before you post. It saves time and you look smarter!!

Credit: BASE104

edit: sorry. I posted before I saw Ed's post. He finally gets to talk physics again.

Don Paul

Big Wall climber
Colombia, South America
Mar 25, 2013 - 11:39am PT
What does this have to do with anything? When pressed to explain the red shifts I said there is an energy loss over distance, that can only be measured at very long distances. It's true, I made that up, but it's far more believable than what you get from the big bang. (Base104 - I do know about absorption spectroscopy and have published papers on exafs while at brookhaven, but like Ed's comment, I dont see how the diagram of the hydrogen spectrum helps you prove the big bang)
cintune

climber
The Utility Muffin Research Kitchen
Mar 25, 2013 - 11:47am PT
It's true, I made that up,

Said every creationist, ultimately, every time.
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