Politics, God and Religion vs. Science

Search
Go

Discussion Topic

Return to Forum List
Post a Reply
Messages 12781 - 12800 of total 23027 in this topic << First  |  < Previous  |  Show All  |  Next >  |  Last >>
Bruce Kay

Gym climber
BC
Feb 16, 2013 - 04:42pm PT
It is rank authoritarianism. He figures he can't possibly improve the perfection of the scripture, so why bother? By mimicking a parrot he demonstrates his subservience, which is vital to demonstrate his total obedience.


It is similar to the deference and acquiescence given to the Roman Catholic leadership in regard to all the cover up and denial of the pedophelia within the clergy. Far easier to just rock back and forth reciting the koran or whatever it is you subscribe to.

Or at least, so we can only speculate because he will never explain it in his own words.
jstan

climber
Feb 16, 2013 - 04:44pm PT
TomCochrane

Trad climber
Santa Cruz Mountains and Monterey Bay

Feb 16, 2013 - 01:31pm PT
go-B,

With all due respect to you personally, please just stop it!

Go-B:
Do you know Tom? His post was not easy for him. Be of gentle heart,

Listen to him.

go-B

climber
Hebrews 1:3
Feb 16, 2013 - 05:26pm PT
OK, I can take a hint!

It's just to me Jesus is the greatest news of all time and forever and the Bible say it best!

So before I stop posting, why don't y'all just go to...




































HEAVEN! *<((:-{>
MH2

climber
Feb 16, 2013 - 05:34pm PT
Does the sequence <1,0,1,0,1,0, . . .> converge?


Good example of how to answer a question with a question.
TomCochrane

Trad climber
Santa Cruz Mountains and Monterey Bay
Feb 16, 2013 - 05:50pm PT
Thank you very much, go-B!

As mentioned before, I do respect the importance of the Bible to you and I am not one to belittle that. I am not suggesting that you just disappear!

I was raised in the Episcopal Church and was awarded the Boy Scout 'God and Country Award' by church scholars. It would be very difficult for anyone to be more passionate in their study of the bible than my father. He was greatly appreciated by elders in the national Episcopal church who ordained him as a priest, even though he worked full time as a power company executive. I feel that I really understood and respected the look of peace and confidence on his face as he was dying at age 90; even as my own beliefs and personal understandings have grown in quite different directions.

Please just understand that you aren't going to 'save' anyone here by constantly quoting Biblical scripture to people who aren't interested in listening...

On the other hand, people are more likely to listen and respect your relating personal experiences that are relevant to our discussions. We have major philosophical differences represented here, and part of the fascination with this thread is being able to discuss those differing viewpoints within a context of mutual respect.
jogill

climber
Colorado
Feb 16, 2013 - 06:02pm PT
Good example of how to answer a question with a question

Thought it might spur some interest. No, the sequence does not converge according to the (virtually) universally accepted definition of "convergence": Convergence in Mathematics


;>)
Malemute

Ice climber
the ghost
Feb 16, 2013 - 06:26pm PT
You can't answer the question if you don't know what fraction of t it takes to flip the coin.
BASE104

Social climber
An Oil Field
Feb 16, 2013 - 06:30pm PT
Go-B has been a polite member of this thread for ages. I say that he is more than welcome, but I admit to scrolling past the scripture. It is too long...
TomCochrane

Trad climber
Santa Cruz Mountains and Monterey Bay
Feb 16, 2013 - 06:31pm PT
Credit: TomCochrane


This is an image of magnetic loops on the sun, captured by NASA's Solar Dynamics Observatory (SDO). It has been processed to highlight the edges of each loop to make the structure more clear.

A series of loops such as this is known as a flux rope, and these lie at the heart of eruptions on the sun known as coronal mass ejections (CMEs.) This is the first time scientists were able to discern the timing of a flux rope's formation. (Blended 131 Angstrom and 171 Angstrom images of July 19, 2012 flare and CME.)

Image Credit: NASA/Goddard Space Flight Center/SDO

jogill

climber
Colorado
Feb 16, 2013 - 06:41pm PT
. . . you don't know what fraction of t it takes to flip the coin

Assume the flip is instantaneous. The process generates the sequence I gave above, even though it occurs in a finite time span. The sequence does not converge, meaning that the question posed cannot be answered in a "yes" or "no" fashion ("heads" or "tails")

Zeno contours are also generated in a finite time span, and sometimes convergence happens while in other instances the sequence diverges. Divergence itself is either divergence to infinity (less troublesome) or divergence by oscillation (like the coin flipping)
Malemute

Ice climber
the ghost
Feb 16, 2013 - 07:07pm PT
Assume the flip is instantaneous.
Then he should have specified a ultra high speed transistor.

If the flip time is non instantaneous does the sequence end?
jogill

climber
Colorado
Feb 16, 2013 - 07:20pm PT
Then he should have specified a ultra high speed transistor.
If the flip time is non instantaneous does the sequence end?

This is not a computer programming problem (not computable) - it exhibits zeno behavior - rather a divertissement in mathematics. The old saying is "in a computer all sequences converge" - simply means every program ultimately stops, if for no other reason than decay of the machine. To that extent the answer to the flipping problem is somewhat arbitrary.

Here's a genuine (mathematical) paradox, however, that is intriguing:

Paradoxes of Length
Malemute

Ice climber
the ghost
Feb 16, 2013 - 07:59pm PT
This is not a computer programming problem (not computable)
Which is why I posed a variation.
MH2

climber
Feb 16, 2013 - 08:05pm PT
I simply meant that jogill's question did answer the question about the coin flipping sequence and elegantly at that.

Malemute, there are a few differences between what we find in physics and what we find in mathematics. The coin flipping is just a way to represent a geometric series.
jogill

climber
Colorado
Feb 16, 2013 - 09:35pm PT
it is very likely that space-time is quantized, at some level it no longer exists as a continuum

Yes, I hate to admit it. It's more fun to play with a (possibly hypothetical) continuum! Although, of course, my zeno contours are realized only in a finite and discrete sense. But the theory tells me they converge to a continuous flow. On paper at least! On the other hand it is difficult to imagine the very first step along the path for an infinite n.

;>)
WBraun

climber
Feb 16, 2013 - 10:03pm PT
When you get to the point where math ends and real life begins you can see the archer, the arrow, and the target all as one but simultaneously different .....
BLUEBLOCR

Social climber
joshua tree
Feb 16, 2013 - 10:17pm PT
"This presents Zeno's problem not with finding the sum, but rather with finishing a task with an infinite number of steps: how can one ever get from A to B, if an infinite number of (non-instantaneous) events can be identified that need to precede the arrival at B, and one cannot reach even the beginning of a "last event"?"
Wiki
__

Once you name points A to B, or any TWO points. don't you finite your infinity?

You cant reach the "last event" because he's discarded motion.
___

imagine the very first step along the path for an infinite n.

It's hard to imagine the "first step" for an infinite "anything". Feels more like we have one foot on the ground, in mid stride. Not sure where to put down the next foot..
TomCochrane

Trad climber
Santa Cruz Mountains and Monterey Bay
Feb 16, 2013 - 10:42pm PT
Go-B has been a polite member of this thread for ages. I say that he is more than welcome, but I admit to scrolling past the scripture. It is too long...

Agreed, and it is not at all my intent to cause him to stop posting and leave the forum. He seems like a gentleman and a scholar. I would certainly prefer him to express his own experiences and views and not just quote scripture. Unfortunately he has not posted anything since and has disabled member-to-member emails. If someone else here has a way of contacting him, please extend my thoughts and apologies.
Dr. F.

Big Wall climber
SoCal
Topic Author's Reply - Feb 17, 2013 - 08:38am PT
might seem true for someone who doesn't understand or honor the cycle of life and death

however

dead leaves and other vegetation are not 'trash', as in when they fall in the Fall

these are not really 'dead' in the sense you understand, merely experiencing a relatively dormant phase change, and constituting an essential part of the cycle of life

to treat this material as 'trash' is a subversion of the human role as caretakers of the earth and depletes the soil and breaks the cycle of life and death

in the winter season, leaves and vegetative debris cover the ground, providing insulation and generating warmth through microbial decay, and enriching the soil

in the spring, 'life' springs anew from this 'dead' material...
Tom Cochrane
Wow Tom
I'm working at the highest level of plant cultivation, not with some dead leaves in winter

I was talking hyperbolically
But I will elaborate

The varying degrees of death in plants
1) some plants are completely rotted, and not a single cell of the plant is still alive
2) some plants have lost their meristem, some cells are still alive, but it would take an in-lab cell culture to revive plant growth
3) some plants have rotted or been disfigured by bugs to such a degree, that they will never look presentable for another 20 years, that they are not worth keeping
4) some plants have rotted stems and roots and are not able to restart a root system,

So the stated premise was:

dead or not recoverable..
Some plants are completely dead. Some are not completely dead, and there are still living cells that could be revived and the plant could be regrown (recovered) with considerable work on my part to revive it. In theory, a whole plant can be regrown from just one living cell, but it takes alot more to do it a pot.

But: and here is the kicker

They are all considered DEAD once they hit the Trash Bin, because that's the end for any living or dead material.
They will never come back to life.


But since I have 1000s of plants, 150 a year doesn't even enter into consideration, it just makes more room for new plants!




cintune

climber
The Utility Muffin Research Kitchen
Feb 17, 2013 - 10:18am PT
Messages 12781 - 12800 of total 23027 in this topic << First  |  < Previous  |  Show All  |  Next >  |  Last >>
Return to Forum List
Post a Reply
 
Our Guidebooks
Check 'em out!
SuperTopo Guidebooks


Try a free sample topo!

 
SuperTopo on the Web

Review Categories
Recent Route Beta
Recent Gear Reviews