Politics, God and Religion vs. Science

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Klimmer

Mountain climber
San Diego
Feb 13, 2013 - 09:10pm PT
Matthew 5:28 (Cambridge KJV)
"But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart."


Ooopsy! That nails all of us on ST right there.


We are all sinners and are worthy of the curse of the Law -- death. But Yeshua, Emmanuel, came and lived a sinless human life and became the Lamb of G-d for our salvation. G-d himself came to Earth and paid the price and took away the curse of sin -- which is eternal death or separation from G-d.

HaShem Adonai Elohim loves everyone, even the sinner. Even the gay. He died for us even when we were sinners, that's how much he loves us.

Any sin separates us from G-d. Is one sin worse than another? Probably but it doesn't matter since the penalty for any sin is death. But Yeshua saves us from the curse, to life eternal. Praise Adonai.


When man gets so wicked that there is none good or righteous in his sight he does take action. He judges and he can judge very harshly. Sodom and Gomorrah. Lot couldn't find 10 other righteous people that hadn't fallen into the depravity of the wicked sin of those cities, and we know what they were infamously known for. G-d said he would hold back his judgement if Lot could prove G-d wrong. G-d knew. But he is long suffering. Lot couldn't find any but his family. G-d spared them and saved them and then took out the cities in a massive meteor bombardment.

G-d does indeed throw stones to judge mankind. G-d judges we don't. G-d decides the ultimate fates we don't. But he does tell us right and wrong in his handbook for life, The Holy Bible. He expects us to read it, believe it unto salvation with faith in Yeshua, and then practice it.

When the road is dangerous ahead, washed-out, and ends in a cliff, we are to tell others. That is not judgement. That is care, concern, and love for our fellow human beings. We are not to hate anyone, not even gays.

When my gay friend in the Army made an unwanted advance, I declined. It's not right. But I didn't hate him. I still cared for my friend. I didn't go and tell my commanding officer. Had I, my friends career would have been over.

Yes, separate the sin from the sinner.

jogill

climber
Colorado
Feb 13, 2013 - 10:01pm PT
Oh boy. On and on and on . . .

Someone chime in with an interesting thought experiment or something. Anything but this scriptural droning and rebuttal.


;>(
dirtbag

climber
Feb 13, 2013 - 10:36pm PT
Sometimes I wish I could believe some of this.

But at the end of the day, if I am being brutally honest, I know it is mostly wishful thinking.
TomCochrane

Trad climber
Santa Cruz Mountains and Monterey Bay
Feb 13, 2013 - 10:44pm PT
how about some more wishful thinking:

Blackbrane
Blackbrane
Credit: TomCochrane

Quantum Properties of Black Holes

Black holes are shrouded in mystery, and are celestial objects that we have yet to fully understand. Black holes are incredibly compact objects that create their own intense gravity – so intense anything in its proximity cannot escape. Even light cannot escape their gravity, hence the name “black hole”. However, they are not completely black and do emit radiation. Recent studies have shown this radiation is thermal.

We do not know the quantum properties of these extremely compact stellar quandaries, but researchers are using theoretical models to better understand them. Niels Obers is a physicist at the Niels Bohr Institute and is currently researching this topic. His team is looking at black holes as if they are particles. A particle is essentially a point and has no dimension. Once you add a dimension to it, it becomes a string. Then if you add another dimension to the string it becomes a plane and physicists refer to these as “branes” (like a membrane).

In string theory, there are planes that resemble black holes and these are referred to as “black branes”. These branes are thermal and can be folded into multiple dimensions that we would called a “blackfold”. Being able to fold up the black branes is a new way of thinking and has been developed by Niels Ober and his team. This thought process has allowed them to make new discoveries about the physics involved in black holes.

After examining the black branes, Ober’s team discovered they are hydro-dynamic and possess the properties of a liquid. At the same time, if you bend the black branes they simulate elastic material, thus exhibiting properties of a solid. When these branes are folded into black folds, electricity due to pressure forms; a process called the piezoelectric effect.

Picture a slightly bent, black string. When the piezoelectric effect occurs, the innermost side has a higher electric charge than the outermost side, creating two charged poles. Black holes were predicted by Einstein’s theory of gravity. This shows there is a relationship between gravity, fluid mechanics, and solid-state physics. Ober’s new theories should shed some light on other mysterious aspects of black holes as well as neutron stars. Further research will enlighten us on particle theories relating to the quark/gluon/plasma primordial soup in the early universe.

The image seen here is an artist impression of black branes with multiple dimensions to create a blackfold.

-ALT

For more reading on string theory, check out our post:
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=469735839758260&set=pb.334816523250193.-2207520000.1360734138&type=3&src=https%3A%2F%2Fsphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net%2Fhphotos-ash3%2F535478_469735839758260_1623496939_n.jpg&size=960%2C610

For more reading on quark/gluon “primordial soup”, check out our post:
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=437516912980153&set=pb.334816523250193.-2207520000.1360734436&type=3&theater

Source:
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2012/12/121211112959.htm

Image Credit:
Merete Rasmussen
go-B

climber
Hebrews 1:3
Feb 14, 2013 - 08:46am PT
VICTORY WON

The Devil's knot of sin, shame, and death was severed then at Calvary,

when Jesus suffered, died, was buried, arose from death's sting to life, the empty tomb of resurrection that third day!

The righteous battles victory won, now to us God's Kingdom comes, because His love has bore our sin!

God had a plan before the world began, to send His Son in the form of man,

to call Abraham's children, back to the promised land!

One day the clouds will part with lightning flash, at His command a trumpet blast, to call His own to Heaven's Home, raised in His Likeness, forever living before His Throne!

go-B, 02/14/2013

photo not found
Missing photo ID#289599

MH2

climber
Feb 14, 2013 - 09:09am PT
There are three false statements here. Can you identify them?

1. 2 + 2 = 4
2. 3 x 6 = 17
3. 8/4 = 2
4. 13 - 6 = 5
5. 5 + 4 = 9
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
-A race of corn eaters
Feb 14, 2013 - 09:31am PT
The fact is, go-b's efforts are backfiring.

I've appreciated this for quite awhile now. His posts demo exactly what, where, how and why so many modern progressive seculars are taking their stand. And what they're fighting against: the empty vain archaica of ol time religious institutions.

You know the saying... When the other side is self-destructing, you get out of the way. Here it's Christian institution by way of go-b.

Today's smart kids see through this ol' time pablum plain as day.
TomCochrane

Trad climber
Santa Cruz Mountains and Monterey Bay
Feb 14, 2013 - 10:20am PT
SLOWING LIGHT TO A CRAWL

The speed of light is constant in all frames of reference and equal 299,792,458 m/s, isn't it? This cornerstone concept of Einstein's theory of relativity has been confirmed by countless experiments, right? Not quite. The above applies to the speed of light in vacuum, denoted by "c". When light travels through other media like air, water or glass, its speed is lower than c. It is an effect of photons being absorbed and subsequently re-radiated by the medium's molecules.

The ratio of the speed of light in vacuum to that in a medium is called the refractive index. It is equal 1.0003 for air; the speed of light in air is only a tiny fraction slower than that in vacuum. The refractive index of glass is approximately 1.5 (it depends on the type of glass), so the light travels through it with the speed around 200,000,000 m/s.

When a ray of light passes from one medium to another, in which its speed will be different, it changes its direction. That's why objects under water, when viewed from above, appear closer to the surface than they really are. Lenses in eyeglasses, binoculars or cameras, and those in your eyeballs, use this phenomenon to focus rays of light.

Physicists have been trying to create and manipulate different media in which light would travel ever more slowly. The Danish physicist Lene Hau, currently at Harvard University, has made this endeavour the focus of her research. Using an exotic state of matter, called Bose-Einstein condensate, at a temperature near absolute zero, suspended in vacuum and illuminated by lasers. Hau's team was able not only to slow light down to a crawl, but also to stop it in its tracks completely for a brief moment. These experiments may lead to new types of computers that would use light instead of electrons to store information.

 PZ

For a more detailed description of the experiment, check out: http://www.physicscentral.com/explore/people/hau.cfm

For more on Bose-Einstein condensate, visit: http://www.colorado.edu/physics/2000/bec/index.html

Image: Lene Hau, courtesy of: http://www.physicscentral.com/explore/people/hau.cfm[/quote]

Credit: TomCochrane
jstan

climber
Feb 14, 2013 - 11:02am PT
Someone chime in with an interesting thought experiment or something. Anything but this scriptural droning and rebuttal.

In the interest of survival we replay dangerous moments in our minds, so as always to remember and to be ready. Nightmares may be of this nature. Pavlov's experiments with dogs harkens to this. Repetition reinforces.

We have people who continually repeat scripture. They may be doing this for themselves, not for us. Can we test this?

Take someone who came to faith as a response to a moment perceived as mortal danger. Such people exist. Scripture quoting may then fall into the Pavlovian domain. If that is the case it is possible they will quote longer passages when they feel more threatened. And the frequency of the phenomenon might be similarly affected.

I am sure we have, somewhere, the data needed to investigate this.
Malemute

Ice climber
the ghost
Feb 14, 2013 - 11:18am PT
There are three false statements here. False (see link)
Can you identify them?
1. 2 + 2 = 4
2. 3 x 6 = 17 False
3. 8/4 = 2
4. 13 - 6 = 5 False
5. 5 + 4 = 9

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liar_paradox

Since it is simultaneously True & False, perhaps Dr Ed can write a wave function for this ;-)
BLUEBLOCR

Social climber
joshua tree
Feb 14, 2013 - 12:47pm PT
Jstan
Take someone who came to faith as a response to a moment perceived as mortal danger.

God is always trying to communicate with us but most of the time our senses are focused on what we see and think. Thus our spirit and conscience take a back seat. For some, coming
to a near death experience is the first time that person quiets the brain enough to look deep within oneself to hear Gods voice. That's when hearing Gods Words (the Bible) can resonate in our soul and cause a change in our thinking. Only then will He add a measure of faith. With that we must continually seek His face through His Word and through our acts of brotherhood.
Somewhere within our individual understanding and our walk in Holliness will the Spirit spark us to plead for the Baptism of the Holy Spirit. When that happens He seals us with His Faith.
Then watch out ANYTHING can happen!!

Jus Seek'in
BB
Largo

Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
Feb 14, 2013 - 01:31pm PT
I'm not sure what the point in with people bombarding this thread with scripture and toxic judgements of others (gays, non belivers)? Are you people under the impression that apostolic approaches will get any traction here? Why this thread? Is there a threat here? What's the motivation? The ill will underscoring the rambling quotes has basically shut down interest in what was a fun ride for some of us. Seems a shame.

JL
jogill

climber
Colorado
Feb 14, 2013 - 01:59pm PT
Thanks for the effort, Tom, jstan, MH2 and Largo.

Dialectic quicksand otherwise . . .

I may be forced to demonstrate a simple mathematical model for multiple universes sprouting at every instant. Pray that I don't have to.


;>)



Edit: Maybe a new thread is in order, something like "Scientific and philosphical Discussion - No Religion"
Klimmer

Mountain climber
San Diego
Feb 14, 2013 - 03:30pm PT
This is one of the longest threads in ST history. It ebs and it flows. It breaths. It's alive. Some great points are made here, and then at times not.

You're not all gonna cry and go home and take the football home with you now are you?

C'mon. Questions are asked, mistatements are made, clarifications are in order.

All the "secret forbidden knowledge" topics are allowed here, without too many panties getting all bunched up. Well, occasionally we do get a major panty bunch-up but we try to clear the uncomfortable folds and push on through.

Truth, and mushings about truth can be painful.

High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
-A race of corn eaters
Feb 14, 2013 - 03:52pm PT
Maybe a new thread is in order, something like "Scientific and philosphical Discussion - No Religion"

Go ahead.

Can't think of anyone who's more appropriate to start it.
MH2

climber
Feb 14, 2013 - 04:50pm PT
mushings about truth can be painful

and funny, too
BLUEBLOCR

Social climber
joshua tree
Feb 14, 2013 - 08:57pm PT
^^^ What do you think about this;

Truth never changes...
BASE104

Social climber
An Oil Field
Feb 14, 2013 - 09:00pm PT
Everyone go buy Godel, Escher, Bach, by Douglas Hofstedder (sic) and report back in a year.

Also, this thread sucks without a good neuroscientist. We are missing a lot without one.
WBraun

climber
Feb 14, 2013 - 09:00pm PT
Truth never changes..

Oh yes it changes.

It's dynamic and alive.

It's the life force itself.

That's why it's not sterile and static.

The world today is looking to become more and more sterile and static ......
Malemute

Ice climber
the ghost
Feb 14, 2013 - 09:06pm PT
no, you cannot write a "wave-function" for it, it is "undecidable"

You missed the wink ed.

If you were smart enough, you COULD write something that would describe whether the participant evaluated the initial statement as true or false. Time dependent of course.
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