Politics, God and Religion vs. Science

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Messages 12661 - 12680 of total 22749 in this topic << First  |  < Previous  |  Show All  |  Next >  |  Last >>
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Mar 19, 2013 - 12:14am PT
Werner: Just kill yourself, and no more meat body.

And where would 'he' be then?

P.S. I find it mighty curious that reincarnation appears to depend on time only moving in one direction.
BASE104

Social climber
An Oil Field
Mar 19, 2013 - 12:21am PT
Killing yourself is against the rules. You will wander around as a ghost.

Seriously, Suicide is terrible. Once it starts in a family or group of freinds, it tends to spread.

My point above was that it is quite easy to see beyond our sense now. Largo hates measuring things, but telescopes, electron microscopes, x-ray diffraction, partical accelerators...

They all extend our senses far beyond their natural range. Hell, we can even see x-rays now. Chandra is the x-ray equivalent of the Hubble.

Infrared telescopes can see through dust clouds, revealing what is beyond them to the other side. Firefighters use similar instruments to see through smoke. With science, we are now able to observe a large portion of the Universe, from the very large to the very small, and although a good IR telescope requires the sensor to be cooled almost to absolute zero, they can see things that eyeball telescopes can't.

We can observe throughout the electromagnetic spectrum.

Seismographs can hear the tiniest noises in the Earth. Ultra low frequency waves, for instance. Not only pressure waves, such as sound, but shear waves as well.

Does anyone care to ask why we know that part of the core of the Earth is molten? Any religious guys curious?
WBraun

climber
Mar 19, 2013 - 12:25am PT
Killing yourself is against the rules. You will wander around as a ghost.

Yes.

There are a few very very rare suicides that are legal.

But those are not to be interpreted by n00bs who have no clue.

But for us n00bs, you are completely correct .....
Largo

Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
Mar 19, 2013 - 01:42am PT
BAASE, no one can fault you for lack of effort. But the problem is, and I'm sure you are the first to know this, is that you are doing something that I would be excoriated for doing if I had the temerity of trying it on the objective and scientific realm, and that is you are totally guessing about what is happening per the subjective, trying to noodle it from without, and exhausting yourself with speculations.

I'm curious, if you really have an honest interest in probing the experiential, how much effort are you willing to put in, above and beyond the exact same thing you've been doing all along.

My sense is that most people are so addicted to mentalizing, and then speculating from there, that even open offers to tie in and get out on the sharp end are met with all kinds of ploys and excuses. Is it any wonder why we end up with so much foolish talk about all of this, as though we were just guessing about emptiness.

And I grew up with the Renzai tradition, and there's no coddling there. No soft touch. Open your trap with speculation - which I did a lot of - and get your ass whacked with a bamboo staff.

JL
TomCochrane

Trad climber
Santa Cruz Mountains and Monterey Bay
Mar 19, 2013 - 01:48am PT
major revolutions are occurring in our understanding of the physical world

many of the pieces of the puzzle are already on the table, but some scientists do not see, or refuse to see the patterns

declaring these patterns to be taboo will not stop revolutions in understanding, but only embarrass those shoveling sand against the tide

until these revolutions in understanding the physical world are generally accepted, it will be very difficult to arrive at scientific understandings of consciousness, awareness, mind, and states of being
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Mar 19, 2013 - 02:48am PT
JAMES WATSON, Ph.D.

Nobel Laureate
Chancellor Emeritus, Cold Spring Harbor Laboratory

Oxidants, Antioxidants and the Curing of Cancer


TUESDAY, March 19 @ 12:00 noon

NRB Auditorium

I actually heard him speak today. What an amazing mind.
Ward Trotter

Trad climber
Mar 19, 2013 - 03:10am PT
I read a consumer news piece about Watson's opposition to antioxidants. He made the point that antioxidants ,if taken during cancer treatment, actually impeded the ability of poisonous oxidant compounds from destroying cancerous cells.
This has been known for some time and did not originate with Watson.
Did he go on to suggest that the consumption of antioxidants are actually injurious for people in otherwise good health?
Am I missing something here?
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Mar 19, 2013 - 04:06am PT
Turns out that pro-oxidants can play significant roles in healing and slathering your body with excessive amounts of anti-oxidants may not ultimately be smart.

The secrets of a tadpole's tail and the implications for human healing
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Mar 19, 2013 - 04:22am PT
Tom: until these revolutions in understanding the physical world are generally accepted,

What "revolutions" exactly are we talking about? And is this an answer to the Sheldrake question? Are we talking morphic fields or what?
slayton

Trad climber
Here and There
Mar 19, 2013 - 05:25am PT
Words. Words. And more words. Fancy words about this and that.

What is reality?

Reality is a rock in the head. Thrown from whatever distance. Once hit, I dare you to to deny it's existence. F*#k your fancy words around reality. Really.
BASE104

Social climber
An Oil Field
Mar 19, 2013 - 07:26am PT
is that you are doing something that I would be excoriated for doing if I had the temerity of trying it on the objective and scientific realm, and that is you are totally guessing about what is happening per the subjective, trying to noodle it from without, and exhausting yourself with speculations.

JL, attacking you personally is an ad hominem attack, which any critical thinker should know. Merely point it out and you win among the locals on this group.

I'm sincere when I try to understand what the heck you are saying sometimes. You have irritated me a bit, because you have been holding your cards close to your chest. Meaning you know or have been taught in a formal setting. I wouldn't start going off on rocks without telling somebody that I have been looking at a specific type of rocks for most of my adult life. That seems a little unfair to me.

You do call people names, so I throw in the occasional twit comment as fair play. I don't really think that you are a twit.

I actually have a pretty long email written up in Word format that I was going to send to you directly, to take this offline and try to satisfy my curiosity.

Do you see how nice I try to be with the Christians? I try to be like that to others. You take a very strong position, and have derided science for the last two years straight, so I think we are about even Steven on that. I try not to deride you, but in a serious discussion, flaws in an argument can be pointed out by either side without making it personal, which I assure you it is not.

Hey. I'm curious. I do approach things critically, because that is the only way to protect yourself from falling into a UFO Jesus cult. A mutual friend of ours actually lost a wife to a UFO Jesus cult, but I won't name him of course. It wasn't HIS fault!

I'm curious about meditation. I always have been. I have zero problem with it because it is an observable act which has shown observable results. Now that is just a tickle of the surface of the art and I've been curious about what is really involved and what benefit it can really provide.

Why else would I be spending all of this time? I'm old enough to not be sucked into a 2 year conversation with you because of your place in climbing history or your writing, which I find hilarious. You are good at that. So why is this so hard to communicate to me and others here?

I suggest using small words and being utterly honest about it. Then we go from there.

So what did you think of my description of the problems of two different people, or two different species, understand what blue means?

Take a guy like Ghandi. He was easy to understand. I see no reason for you to have problems in the communication department.
Spider Savage

Mountain climber
The shaggy fringe of Los Angeles
Mar 19, 2013 - 11:03am PT
Possibly drifting from the conversation a bit here: (I didn't check to see if this has already been posted.)


I find, in working with many young men, that just prior to puberty, the male child achieves a state sort of like that of a Bohdi in Buddhism. A kind of ethical and intellectual perfection.
Largo

Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
Mar 19, 2013 - 02:39pm PT
I resonate with most of your posts here Largo with the exception of "spending some years sitting". The reason is (I have pointed out before) why see through the illusion? What is the point?
-
I understand this. The problem is, not seeing the point is not the same as their not being a point. You want to know about Half Dome, so to speak, without making the effort to hike up the backside, expecting that if the "point" was valid and reasonable, I could be straightforward and simply tell you what it is.

When I go on and on about the objective and the experiential being fundamentally different, this is not a guess, and different approaches are needed to cover much ground in either realm. Again, if you're satisfied with the ground you've covered in the experiential by your own methods, good on you.

Like wall climbing or free soloing, it's ain't for everyone - just look at the resistance to making one move in that direction, as though our evaluating minds might dry up and blow away if disengaged for a mere half hour a day.

Do you think I'd really recommend exploring that route - being ask to believe nothing whatsoever - if there was not some gold there beyond faith, concepts and speculation?

JL
MH2

climber
Mar 19, 2013 - 02:42pm PT
as though our evaluating minds might dry up and blow away if disengaged for a mere half hour a day.


Dunno about you, but mine is disengaged a lot longer than that in a typical 24 hrs.
Ward Trotter

Trad climber
Mar 19, 2013 - 03:17pm PT
Turns out that pro-oxidants can play significant roles in healing and slathering your body with excessive amounts of anti-oxidants may not ultimately be smart.

There is no question that ROSs and free radicals like Nitric Oxide have an important role in biological processes. They are roughly analogous to the Forest Service setting intentional fires to prevent larger conflagrations.

I'm not sure what you mean quantitatively by "slathering" or " excessive" but let us say it's an individual taking 1 gram of Vitamin C daily, which would roughly be 5 times the RDA (since only 50% is absorbed) and even more for the amount that would prevent scurvy.

Millions of people have been consuming that amount and more of Vit. C. With that amount of intake they should be violating the tadpole regeneration model of human health in droves.
Why aren't they showing up in physician's offices and ERs with a demonstrable inability to heal properly from cuts, bruises, and other ailments?
WBraun

climber
Mar 19, 2013 - 11:02pm PT
why see through the illusion? What is the point?


One pure drop of true reality past the illusion will make one never return .......
TomCochrane

Trad climber
Santa Cruz Mountains and Monterey Bay
Mar 19, 2013 - 11:53pm PT
Credit: TomCochrane

Experimental set-up of the quantum teleportation device including an entangled light-emitting diode (ELED) and an assortment of beam splitters polarization controllers, detectors, and photodiodes. The researchers demonstrated that the device can generate single pairs of entangled photons with advantages compared with using a laser due to the electrical control provided by the ELED. Credit: J. Nilsson, et al. ©2013 Macmillan Publishers Limited. All rights reserved. (Phys.org) —In a new study, physicists have teleported photonic qubits made of pairs of entangled photons that are generated by an LED containing an embedded quantum dot. The novel set-up has advantages compared to the conventional method of generating entangled photons using a laser, and could lead to a simplified technique for implementing quantum teleportation in quantum information applications.

Read more at: http://phys.org/news/2013-03-quantum-teleportation-dot-embedded.html#jCp




Credit: TomCochrane


This 2011 image provided by CERN,
shows a real CMS proton-proton collision in which
four high energy electrons (green lines and red towers) are observed
in a 2011 event. The event shows characteristics expected from
the decay of a Higgs boson. The European Organization for Nuclear Research,
called CERN, said Thursday March 14, 2013, all the 2012 data shows what they
found last year was a version of a Higgs boson, also called the “God particle.”

Since the first July 2012 “God particle perhaps found” excitement at the Large Hadron Collider (LHC) in CERN Geneva, physicists have studied 2.5 times more data and most are now convinced the LHC created at least one type of Higgs boson. Half a century ago the Higgs boson was theorized to explain mass in elementary particles. Is there only one Higgs boson? Or several different types? No one yet knows, but without the Higgs Field from primordial Higgs bosons, this universe would have no matter as we know it.
Don Paul

Big Wall climber
Colombia, South America
Mar 20, 2013 - 08:56pm PT

When this came up from one of my hippie facebook friends, what else could I think of than my artificial rock climbing friends?

At a fundamental level, man is pure energy. In Wave Genetics, the junk DNA functions at a rich infrastructure level of super codes and wave communication, realized in material form as crystalline structures–dynamic gene-holograms in liquid crystals of the chromosome continuum. What this model suggests is that the human gene is part of larger holograms (multiverse) of wave information reality. Hyper-communication, in the form of remote sensing, remote healing and telepathy, is definitely a part of the human protocol.
BLUEBLOCR

Social climber
joshua tree
Mar 21, 2013 - 01:17am PT
^^^^^ Sillyness.
DNA is just a linear algorithm that produces what it predicts from the highest percentage of precluded (pre-developed?) meat.

No Spirituality..

Just look at a joshuatree! Where's the Spirituality? Because it grows to be and look like other joshuatrees? No. Because its related to the Lilly? No. Because it converses with water and the wind/air, and sun. No. It's an object. A pile of meat. That's destined to be; By a seed. DNA.

We lost Spirituality on this thread when go-B left!!!
BLUEBLOCR

Social climber
joshua tree
Mar 21, 2013 - 01:49am PT
and, to try and predict that one soul moves from body to body,
feels pretty materialistic tooo.
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