Politics, God and Religion vs. Science

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Messages 12241 - 12260 of total 22966 in this topic << First  |  < Previous  |  Show All  |  Next >  |  Last >>
Dr. F.

Big Wall climber
SoCal
Topic Author's Reply - Feb 3, 2013 - 05:22pm PT
Some of you folks need to read some good Skeptical Literature

Mostly in the subject of why people believe what they believe

Please check out Shermer, Dawkins, Steiger
WBraun

climber
Feb 3, 2013 - 05:50pm PT
Shermer, Dawkins, Steiger are mundane.

All the Superior knowledge makes them look like the cavemen they are.

Western material mental speculators knowledge is all incomplete and ultimately defective.

They're worst then the 49'ers right now.

They are missing all the important ingredients ......
Jingy

climber
Somewhere out there
Feb 3, 2013 - 06:19pm PT
Werner writes...
They are missing all the important ingredients

 Suggesting that there are "important ingredients" and with the previous statement…
Western material mental speculators knowledge is all incomplete and ultimately defective.
further suggests that he "knows" this statement to be true or that the statement is, as a basic premise, complete and factual….

Anyone who disagrees with Werner is clearly wrong, according to Werner…. i.e. Werner knows it all.


What was it that Largo was saying about know it all's? Do they come off as pretentious?

Or is it possible that "know it all's" as a term of phrase only applies to those who "know" factual things? Because everyone is a know it all when it come to the imaginary friend.
WBraun

climber
Feb 3, 2013 - 06:29pm PT
Jingy has his imaginary friend.

Sorry dude I don't have any illusionary imaginary friend like you ....
WBraun

climber
Feb 3, 2013 - 06:37pm PT
Say anything you want.

it won't help you.

Niners SCORE !!!!!

Whoops hahaha

Wrong thread .....
Bruce Kay

Gym climber
BC
Feb 3, 2013 - 07:11pm PT
All the Superior knowledge


The Great Communicator - Werner Braun. There's nobody better at getting the message out in three and a half mystifying sentences.

And if you're really lucky he'll call you stupid!
moosedrool

Trad climber
lost, far away from Poland
Feb 3, 2013 - 07:25pm PT
Leave my Guru alone!

Everybody STFU! He spoke!!!

I got your back master!
Jingy

climber
Somewhere out there
Feb 3, 2013 - 07:37pm PT
Sorry dude I don't have any illusionary imaginary friend like you

 The more adult version of "I know you are but what am I?"

Good one Werner….
moosedrool

Trad climber
lost, far away from Poland
Feb 3, 2013 - 07:38pm PT
It's OK Skully. I am just having my fun.

We all have our precious believes, illusions that we uncovered a piece of the mystery called life.

Man, we are so arogant.

We are like a bird in a cage. We will never know what is outside the window ;)

Did I get it about right, my master?
Dr. F.

Big Wall climber
SoCal
Topic Author's Reply - Feb 3, 2013 - 07:43pm PT
They are missing all the important ingredients ......

Yet the ol wise one can't tell us what specific ingredients any of us are missing, just a vague broad brush stroke, you guys are missing things...

WHAT THINGS???
PLEASE TELL US WHAT WE ARE MISSING.
Then we can debate the subject,
we can't debate something that you want to keep secret
Jim Brennan

Trad climber
Vancouver Canada
Feb 3, 2013 - 07:50pm PT
I think Werner was hinting that the 49ers needed a Hail Mary.
moosedrool

Trad climber
lost, far away from Poland
Feb 3, 2013 - 07:52pm PT
Is anybody familiar with the ideas of Stephen Wolfram? I couldn't finish his book "A New Kind Of Science (too boring for me), but his notion that our world is just an execution of some underlaying program sounds very interesting.
We are like cartoon characters trying to figure out the binary(?) code that created us.
Klimmer

Mountain climber
San Diego
Feb 3, 2013 - 07:59pm PT
Atheists. Militant Atheists. They are both full of faith. It is indeed a religion with zealot believers that believe there is no G-d. They even fight through courts of law to force their views on others and pull down historic structures of the other peoples' faiths. Does Christedom do that to other faiths? Not that I'm aware of. Yet atheists do. They also seem to have a extreme bias against Judeo-Christian faith. Why is that?

Yet, you can't prove G-d doesn't exist. Never can and you never will. To me it's incredibly amazing how you have sooo much faith in so little evidence. It's the literal ostrich with its head in the ground.

Me thinks you don't believe because to believe would mean you are subject and accountable to G-d. And you just can't have that be true. The lie you tell yourself makes sleeping far easier. But the cliff still looms ahead and you are driving towards it.

The evidence is stacked against you. The order and the laws of the Universe shout of G-d's nature and his characteristics.


Brave, smart, gifted men, scientists believe in G-d:

Aristotle
Copernicus
Tycho Brahe
Johannes Kepler
Galileo
Sir Isaac Newton
Even Einstein

And many more.

Ladies and gentleman that is no less than the foundation of modern science.

BASE104

Social climber
An Oil Field
Feb 3, 2013 - 08:00pm PT
Hmmmm. I just watched the TED video about Dawkins discussing militant atheism. He uses the term almost immediately in the talk. It is very interesting, and urges us to stop considering religion as somehow holy and immune from the same rules which define scientific inquiry, which is considerably more strict.

http://www.ted.com/talks/richard_dawkins_on_militant_atheism.html

I had heard of the statistics of the National Academy of Sciences poll. Slightly more than 90% considered themselves atheists or agnostics. Dawkins was curious why there wasn't any other study to correlate atheism with intelligence. This would be interesting, because theists are themselves a wildly organized political group as a whole. Hence any person who seeks office will either be religious or a liar.

He did make an interesting point. The number of atheists in this country is many times the number of Jews, but politically atheism is something like poison. No politician would dare to "come out" and say that they are atheists. Conversely, any who oppose the antics of Israel are labeled antisemitic. They are not necessarily antisemetic. They just don't believe in religion.

There may be a few political atheists here and there, but I haven't seen any, other than the gay fellow who was on the city council here for many years until he was defeated by the well oiled machine of theism. This was hardly fair, because he was a very popular councilman and had done a great job for several terms until his homosexuality was outed in a very well funded way. He was a full professor and when he was defeated I believe he moved as far from Oklahoma as he could.

I live in a large college town, with a very high number of college graduates, so it is more friendly towards differing opinions and beliefs than most places in this state. I like it. Most of my friends are professors.

It is a good lecture. I urge you to watch it and then discuss it. It is definitely on topic.

The lecture isn't long, so it won't take up too much of your time.
BASE104

Social climber
An Oil Field
Feb 3, 2013 - 08:14pm PT
Atheists. Militant Atheists. They are both full of faith. It is indeed a religion with zealot believers that believe there is no G-d. They even fight through courts of law to force their views on others and pull down historic structures of the other peoples' faiths. Does Christedom do that to other faiths?


Yes. I am visited by the Mormon boys every year. Science sits on its hands lest they offend people like you. Christians have been trying to control science education by using the courts dating back to the Scopes trial. As to the matter of forcing Christian views on other people's faith, what planet do you live on?

Not that I'm aware of. Yet atheists do. They also seem to have a extreme bias against Judeo-Christian faith. Why is that?

Because the overwhelming number of theists in this country are Christian. Who else is there to piss off?

Yet, you can't prove G-d doesn't exist.


Neither can you. We can't prove that the tooth fairy exists or not, but any hypothesis must be falsifiable to be considered a hypothesis. I could very easily create my own religion within a few hours. Less if I had some help.

Never can and you never will. To me it's incredibly amazing how you have sooo much faith in so little evidence. It's the literal ostrich with its head in the ground.

Me thinks that this argument is turned the wrong way. I can prove that humans did not live in the Devonian. You can't. Neither can you explain why the universe is over 10 billion years old. To argue that it is 10,000 years old requires you to refute every physical and biological science

And you just can't have that be true. The lie you tell yourself makes sleeping far easier. But the cliff still looms ahead and you are driving towards it.

What lie is that? Unlike Religion, which consists of a rote book, science takes great care to avoid incorrect conclusions. They do happen, but when new data or a better explanation of the data appears, science is quite willing to change. You are the one who will not change.

I could easily say that the lie you tell YOURSELF makes you sleep better at night. You are convinced that you are going to live forever. I've only got 35 or so years left.

The evidence is stacked against you. The order and the laws of the Universe shout of G-d's nature and his characteristics.

The evidence is stacked against us? Perhaps you should go to the Geology and Geophysics Library with me, followed by Physics, Chemistry, Biology, and Astronomy. The evidence is stacked against you. You have one book, and the various interpretations of that book have actually led to wars


Brave, smart, gifted men, scientists believe in G-d:

Aristotle
Copernicus
Tycho Brahe
Johannes Kepler
Galileo
Sir Isaac Newton
Even Einstein

Wrong about Einstein. He did use the word God, but he was clearly an atheist. The rest are dead, and some were not Christians

And many more
.

OK. Start listing them.

Ladies and gentleman that is no less than the foundation of modern science
.

Ladies and gentlemen, that is no less than the foundation of modern religion. When it faces what is known about the natural universe, the hill is becoming harder to climb as knowledge increases. Do you refute the theory of the electron? Would you if the Bible specifically said that electrons were a fantasy? Why doesn't the Bible even delve into important matters such as this?

Religion is inflexible. Science is not. I'm not saying that science will cure all of society's ills, since that is not its purpose. Its purpose is to understand the natural world. It is a fantastic journey, with its share of dead ends and new discoveries.
Klimmer

Mountain climber
San Diego
Feb 3, 2013 - 08:57pm PT
America is being judged. Hashem Adonai Elohim has blessed this country greatly for his divine purposes, but as we turn away from G-d, he is certainly sending us Harbigers to wake us up, repent, and return to Him.

“The propitious smiles of heaven can never be expected on a nation that disregard the eternal rules of order and right which Heaven itself has ordained."

--George Washington, Inaugural address 1789

A great book and best seller by Messianic Rabbi Jonathan Cahn and DVD:

Book ...
The Harbinger: The Ancient Mystery That Holds the Secret of America's Future (Paperback)
By Rabbi Jonathan Cahn
http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/161638610X/ref=aw_ls__2?colid=2GL3DFQ4AXH2G&coliid=I318DPQJXLLDRG

DVD...
The Isaiah 9:10 Judgment: Is There an Ancient Mystery that Foretells America's Future?
Jonathan Cahn, George Escobar
http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/1936488191/ref=aw_ls__1?colid=2GL3DFQ4AXH2G&coliid=IGLQR0NN7JOB0


If you have a problem with this interpretation of scripture and revelation, then I suggest a good study into the Jewish Judaic acronym PaRDeS ...

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pardes_(Jewish_exegesis);


BASE104

Social climber
An Oil Field
Feb 3, 2013 - 08:59pm PT
Alright Klimmer!!

I love it when you tell us when the apocalypse is going to be!
Klimmer

Mountain climber
San Diego
Feb 3, 2013 - 09:11pm PT
Not talking Apocalypse, but wake up call to come back to G-d. G-d does this throughout history with many nations, especially Israel. Read the Bible. He chastises those he loves, just like a parent punishes a disobedient child to teach them and correct them.




BASE104,

How long have we argued? A long time. Years.

And yet you still can't get it right. I'm a scientist. I know cosmology, astronomy. I have a good foundation in math, physics, chemistry, geology, and even biology. I accept the Universe is 13.7 B yrs old, Sol is about 5 B, and Earth is 4.56 B. etc

I agree man didn't walk with the dinosaurs. Rachel Welch wouldn't really have been running round in sexy loin cloth with dinosaurs.

Do you have a memory problem?


You said...

Wrong about Einstein. He did use the word God, but he was clearly an atheist. The rest are dead, and some were not Christians


You clearly don't know Einstein. He had a great deal to say about G-d and even Jesus, Yeshua. He admired him greatly. Yes, they are now dead but they were the fathers of modern science, the foundation of science. I'm not saying religion or faith is the foundation of science. I've said it once, might as well say it a thousand times: Science is about cosmic order, answers what? and how? questions. Religion/Faith is about cosmic purpose, answers Who? and Why? questions. Both are very important, meaningful, and compatibly human endeavors but different purposes. Yes, Aristotle believed in Greek gods. Small g.







You said...

Science sits on its hands lest they offend people like you. Christians have been trying to control science education by using the courts dating back to the Scopes trial. As to the matter of forcing Christian views on other people's faith, what planet do you live on?


Science doesn't offend me. What offends me are those who are atheists to such a degree that they pull down historic structures of Judeo-Christian faith. There are many other faiths in the USA with religious structures on public lands yet you don't go after them. Christendom doesn't go after them. Me thinks Satan, Lucifer knows his enemy and wields his children to do his bidding. I was primarily talking about structures. But now in the public arena Atheists are doing just what you complain about, and using man's sometimes unjust laws to do so. Seems to me a violation of the second amendment, the separation of church and state. Atheism is a faith, a religion, and it is wielding the law of the land to push its agenda.



You said...

OK. Start listing them.



Gee, even a SDUSD film called "Scientific Methods and Values" that I show my students admits scientists come from all walks of life, believers, agnostics, atheists, seekers, etc. from all nations with many belief systems and some none at all. There are books and books on this. Just google books on scientists with faith and amazon. There are a plethora of books on the topic. Many very well known scientists, that were or are highly respected have faith in G-d.




You said...

When it faces what is known about the natural universe, the hill is becoming harder to climb as knowledge increases. Do you refute the theory of the electron? Would you if the Bible specifically said that electrons were a fantasy? Why doesn't the Bible even delve into important matters such as this?


The Bible does delve into important matters such as this far more than you know. How much time do we have to go through and mention as much as I can? That would be a great separate post. There is a great deal that the Torah, the Tenakh, the Bible both Old Covenant and New Covenant goes into and calls out amazingly correct thousands of years before modern science ever figured it out. Many examples. I'll have to post that sometime.

Just one example, "In the beginning G-d created heaven and Earth ..." "And G-d said, let there be light: and there was light."

Wow, science just caught up to this idea not so many years ago, that our Universe did indeed have a beginning, the point of singularity, the Big Bang. The Word of G-d said this thousands of years ago. Way ahead of its time.

The heavens were created (formed) first and then Earth. Sure enough the Universe and then our solar system, with the planets ac-creating around our new star Sol in the proto-planetary disk.

I can go on and on with many examples.
jstan

climber
Feb 3, 2013 - 09:18pm PT
as if ever known theologian from Claremont to Yale Divinity School is a sad sac Abrahamic superstitious myth clasping dope who lacks the facts and figures to know his way around life

Yale used to be considered good till W. went through. Not a good school to hold up now.

Do you know something about Claremont we don't?
go-B

climber
Hebrews 1:3
Feb 4, 2013 - 07:32am PT
I've been in anticipation of this book since I first heard that it was in the works which,...blends the gospels and other biblical material about Jesus into one continuous story, just started it today...

One Perfect Life
John MacArthur

Read the best news the world has ever been given about the most significant life in all history—Jesus Christ. In One Perfect Life, Dr. John MacArthur shares with us the complete story of the Eternal Christ from Genesis to Revelation. Using Matthew as the base text, Dr. MacArthur blends the gospels and other biblical material about Jesus into one continuous story that will help you better understand Scripture and grow stronger in your faith. No other harmony of the Gospels includes such extensive study notes to help you unpack the meaning of each verse.

Features include:

Verse-by-verse explanations from one of the most important pastor-teachers of our time
Every verse connected to Christ from Genesis to Revelation
A harmony of the Gospels that demonstrates the inerrancy of Scripture
New King James translation

480pp. Hardback.

http://www.gbibooks.com/ISBN/9781401676322

At the bottom of each page is included the notes from The MacArthur Study Bible, for that section!


photo not found
Missing photo ID#288076
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Missing photo ID#288079

...In a word, BRILLIANT!
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