Politics, God and Religion vs. Science

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Messages 12081 - 12100 of total 22369 in this topic << First  |  < Previous  |  Show All  |  Next >  |  Last >>
Psilocyborg

climber
Feb 26, 2013 - 07:10pm PT
You are so very wrong, but I understand your aversion.

How silly is it when a Christian points to you and calls you a devil worshipper?

You are silly.

You are right however when you say drugs aren't god. I am right when I say meditation isn't god. The funny thing is.....god is everything

All "bona fide" spiritual practices condemn psychedelic plants because they grow freely, like breadcrumbs
Dr. F.

Big Wall climber
SoCal
Topic Author's Reply - Feb 26, 2013 - 07:35pm PT
Credit: Dr. F.
Largo

Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
Feb 26, 2013 - 08:06pm PT
The falacy that a person needs drugs to experience spiritual forces presumes that either spiritual content will bubble up, or the lens of awareness will become especially fly and spiritual with a gut full of peyote or whatever. Both ideas are jive because it's not the content but the source. Many people have brushed this on drugs and found the experience either overwhelming or unsustainable. No viable outfit I have ever heard of subscribes to tripping your way to the Promise Land. That much said, ashrans and Zendos have always been full of drunks.

It's tricky out there - like a mossy offwidth too wide for cams.

JL
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Feb 26, 2013 - 08:07pm PT
Werner: All bonafide spiritual practices condemn drugs.

Largo: No viable outfit I have ever heard of subscribes to tripping your way to the Promise Land.

The spiritual rituals of many peoples around the world include drug use. In fact, one has to wonder whether the Vedas would exist at all without them.

In the Vedas, the drink, and the plant refer to the same entity. Drinking Soma produces immortality. Indra and Agni are portrayed as consuming Soma in copious quantities. The consumption of Soma by human beings is well attested in Vedic ritual.

The Rigveda (8.48.3) states:
a ápāma sómam amŕtā abhūmâganma jyótir ávidāma devân
c kíṃ nūnám asmân kṛṇavad árātiḥ kím u dhūrtír amṛta mártyasya

We have drunk Soma and become immortal; we have attained the light, the Gods discovered. Now what may foeman's malice do to harm us? What, O Immortal, mortal man's deception?

So you may really may want to rethink those particular chunks of dogmatic nonsense and maybe even reconsider why you both seem to have such a strong need for spirituality to flow from the structured teachings of 'masters' and authoritative 'outfits'. It's really the antithesis of many native cultures around the world, but then again, many of those do lack the bona fides which obviously flow from advanced outfittery. Personally I find such perspectives arrogant, utterly stifling, highly [and artificially] constrained and constraining.
Malemute

Ice climber
the ghost
Feb 26, 2013 - 08:26pm PT
are you suggesting that we should be forever stoned?
whatever it takes to enter a state of "suspension of disbelief" ie gullibility
WBraun

climber
Feb 26, 2013 - 08:50pm PT
healyje Google's and then decides he knows what's going on.

Then decides he knows what Soma-rasa is.

Soma is not found on this planet.

It is consumed by the demigods in the upper planetary systems.

Soma-rasa is not the same as you are perceiving in relations to drugs and intoxicants on this planet.

This is what happens when mental speculators like healyje and Psilocyborg who love drugs and believe they can lead to liberation.

Even the dog Malemute got it correctly ......



Dr. F.

Big Wall climber
SoCal
Topic Author's Reply - Feb 26, 2013 - 09:11pm PT
Soma is not found on this planet.

It is consumed by the demigods in the upper planetary systems.
TFPU
can you provide a link
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Feb 26, 2013 - 09:14pm PT
Werner: Soma is not found on this planet.

Dude, where exactly do you come up with utterly delusional bullshit like this? Let me guess, years of study and astral projection?

My dogma is pure, my dogma is perfect, my dogma must be protected...

You need wind your dastar a little looser and get a new dogma.
MH2

climber
Feb 26, 2013 - 09:14pm PT
jstan has it right but JL made a good effort.

There is no possibility of bringing science and raw experience into any kind of conflict.
Dr. F.

Big Wall climber
SoCal
Topic Author's Reply - Feb 26, 2013 - 09:22pm PT
raw experience???

tell us your experience, and then science will take a look see
Dr. F.

Big Wall climber
SoCal
Topic Author's Reply - Feb 26, 2013 - 09:34pm PT
Werner
Tell us more about these upper planetary systems

WBraun

climber
Feb 26, 2013 - 09:47pm PT
Tell us more about these upper planetary systems

And then your so called science will judge, you forgot to add.
Norton

Social climber
the Wastelands
Feb 26, 2013 - 09:57pm PT

Definition of 'Hubris'

The characteristic of excessive confidence or arrogance, which leads a person to believe that he or she may do no wrong.
cintune

climber
The Utility Muffin Research Kitchen
Feb 26, 2013 - 10:10pm PT
This thread is just so endlessly entertaining.

Especially liked the counterpoint a page or so back with the ice cube sublimating in outer space while Largo grokked on mushin. Priceless conceptual juxtaposition there.
Largo

Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
Feb 26, 2013 - 10:18pm PT
So you may really may want to rethink those particular chunks of dogmatic nonsense and maybe even reconsider why you both seem to have such a strong need for spirituality to flow from the structured teachings of 'masters' and authoritative 'outfits'. It's really the antithesis of many native cultures around the world, but then again, many of those do lack the bona fides which obviously flow from advanced outfittery. Personally I find such perspectives arrogant, utterly stifling, highly [and artificially] constrained and constraining.


Healyje, have another drink. Or three, you silly rummy. If you want to tie one on, have at it.

You have to notice that like a moth to a flame, you instantly revert to the idea that spirituality is a "thing" that "issues" from "masters."

We have to wonder if you would take the same issue with a scientist following a scholastic program under known "masters." Or if, like many others, you simply can't stomach the idea that some forms of spirituality have actual and viable teaching methods that are every bit as rigorous and structured and test-oriented as grad school.

Most of all, I would never have to explain this if you had bothered to ever actually go to Zendo or whatever and saw for yourself that the scenario you have in your silly brainpan is the equal of the old Japanese ad of Bachar on Midnight Lightning with the words: "Let's Bouldering."



WBraun

climber
Feb 26, 2013 - 10:21pm PT
LOL .....
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Feb 26, 2013 - 10:35pm PT
Largo: Or if, like many others, you simply can't stomach the idea that some forms of spirituality have actual and viable teaching methods that are every bit as rigorous and structured and test-oriented as grad school.

The very notion of '[discrete] forms of spirtuality' is difficult to stomach to an extent in the inference that any 'form' of spirituality is superior or a better way to get to "isness". Or for that matter, that 'isness' requires any form of spirituality whatsoever. Again, keep fooling yourself that you or Zen masters are the keepers of some rare, elite or unique knowledge; it's the oldest vanity in the world. There are infinite paths to 'isness' and among them are no shortage of those which exhibit high levels of structure, rigor, and ritual - but such requirements have nothing whatsoever to do with 'isness' and everything to do with the seekers who require them.

What is really on display here is just how much some personality types require a path which is wholly dependent on the existence of a palpable and 'certain' authoritativeness.
cintune

climber
The Utility Muffin Research Kitchen
Feb 26, 2013 - 10:40pm PT
Don't miss this week's episode of "Touched By A Roshi."
Parental advisory: some mature content.
Malemute

Ice climber
the ghost
Feb 26, 2013 - 10:43pm PT
Man with weak arguments resorts to name calling.
Psilocyborg

climber
Feb 26, 2013 - 11:17pm PT
largo and WB we wont convince each other of anything....just keep livin' the dream :-) I know I am

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