Politics, God and Religion vs. Science

Search
Go

Discussion Topic

Return to Forum List
Post a Reply
Messages 11781 - 11800 of total 22344 in this topic << First  |  < Previous  |  Show All  |  Next >  |  Last >>
TomCochrane

Trad climber
Santa Cruz Mountains and Monterey Bay
Feb 18, 2013 - 04:01am PT
the 'physical universe' is an invention of the 'spiritual universe' (or whatever you may choose to call awareness or source energy)

the observed local integrity of the 'physical universe' is dependent upon local agreements

these local agreements are locked in place by very sophisticated encryption at the level of thought particles moving in high-speed complex patterns to form molecules, and thus maintain the integrity of 'masses' in the 'physical universe'

(sub-atomic particles are thoughts...a bit like lego blocks)

these encryption patterns are designed in such a way that only an unencumbered awareness can pass through them to non-distructably influence the physical molecule

any mental encumbrance will block passing awareness through the encryption patterns

these complex encrypted patterns of molecules were developed over a long period of time during earlier stages of the universe in order to maintain the persistence of thought creations in physical space (it is frustrating to spend a lot of time creating a 'something' only to have it destroyed by a 'someone' with incompatible thoughts)

we have had a long time to forget about this sort of thing, hence our seeming to be buried in 'mysteries' that are really just geological stacks of ancient unappreciated thoughts (i.e. physical material) ... which we occasionally recycle into some other creative effort

and noting that a lot of this created physical stuff has stacked up across astronomical time

(those who remember and perceive a little bit of this knowledge are called 'wizards' or some such, and feared and carefully ridiculed and weeded out of 'society'; or else honored as 'gurus' or 'geniuses' or 'heroes' or 'super athletes' etc.)

the science of chemistry does not observe or understand these encryption patterns in physical molecules, but has learned by experimentation a set of rules that allows recombining them into physical substances with varying properties (this is especially interesting where the research involves biochemistry and DNA molecules)

nuclear physics also does not observe or understand these encryption patterns in molecules, but does observe various types of energy relationships and also smashes these encryption patterns using highly energetic particles, thus releasing a complex of chaotic particles to study in various ways

i anticipate that SLAC LCLS observations modeled in supercomputers may open peoples eyes to rediscover these encrypted patterns holding together the physical universe...quite literally the 'keys to the universe'...possibly a greater breakthrough in scientific understanding than the microscope and telescope combined...

unfortunately LCLS only allows a snapshot, and cannot observe the interlocking motion patterns, as it instantly destroys the target with the energy of its beam

(note that it is in fact quite possible to transcend the physical universe by means known to eastern mystics and various others)
Jan

Mountain climber
Okinawa, Japan
Feb 18, 2013 - 06:58am PT
It seems to me that Ed and Largo are now reaching some kind of synthesis?

The main difference between their synthesis and a book like the Tao of physics is that it is a synthesis minus any form of religion and it makes use of what we know now about primate behavior and the construction of the human brain?
Jan

Mountain climber
Okinawa, Japan
Feb 18, 2013 - 07:15am PT
And now comes the announcement that Obama is seeking to establish a ten year program involving many different national science institutes to study the workings of the human brain in a pattern programmed after the program to decode the human genome.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/18/science/project-seeks-to-build-map-of-human-brain.html?hp&_r=0
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Feb 18, 2013 - 07:36am PT
Yeah, they say it's 'different' than Henry's EU brain project, but you can tell the bug has been put in Obama's ear that we got left behind in physics when we abandoned the SSC and the same might happen in biomedical research if we don't match the effort on this continent.
go-B

climber
Hebrews 1:3
Feb 18, 2013 - 09:29am PT
Hey Tom Cochrane, as a side note I also work for the local power company!

Apologies accepted, but your not alone in this and in the end it is my decision to acquiesce to the group, but I'm not going to keep posting on the taco, only to be censored on how I do it!

I started posting on Politics, God and Religion vs. Science, to keep it mainly in one place and not run over onto other threads to much.

For twenty years, all I did was climb, think, or dream about it, and have been out of the game as long with finger injuries! I started posting here after reading TR's done by old friends, and when Bachar passed, that's when I started talking about God and Jesus!

There are some sorrowful things in the bible, that can rub people the wrong way, but there's much more to be joyful about! But the difference between Christ and all other religions or philosophies, is God said that He had to step in by sending Jesus to do a saving work, that apart from Him we can do nothing! Then He put the ball in our court, and tells us that we have to respond with faith to please Him!...

John 3:16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. 17 For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.
18 “He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Mr. Gill, said maybe someone should start a thread called "Scientific and philosophical Discussion - No Religion", maybe I should start one called "Just Religion"?

So my friends, carry on!
Bruce Kay

Gym climber
BC
Feb 18, 2013 - 10:35am PT
Go - B , I read your whole post - not just on principle either! About "the ball is in our court".... Agreed, in principle. the best little bit of scripture that resonates with me is "God helps those who help themselves", Which I interpret to mean that "god" looks favorably on us directing our resources at improving our lot in life on this earth. Everything else is gravy, including genuflecting to the big guy in the sky.


It seems to me that Ed and Largo are now reaching some kind of synthesis?

The main difference between their synthesis and a book like the Tao of physics is that it is a synthesis minus any form of religion and it makes use of what we know now about primate behavior and the construction of the human brain?

It also seemed to me that there is some intimation that there is not "parallel realities" at all, just that which is known, and that which is unknown (to paraphrase D Rummsfeld) which may yet be known and perhaps even explained by scientific process, even if to date it "seems" only "spiritual".
TomCochrane

Trad climber
Santa Cruz Mountains and Monterey Bay
Feb 18, 2013 - 11:15am PT
go-B, i'm not sure censorship is the right term for it


it's more a matter of gauging what is appropriate to share with this particular campfire discussion


there are various sorts of things that i might discuss in different company that just land sideways with this group, so i don't


the point of this thread is to prove that all religion is religioulous, as still driven hard line by some


just quoting scripture has the opposite effect of what you intend


yet the thread has evolved in much more interesting directions


your personal thoughts, as in your previous post, are well appreciated

i learned more about you and your reasoning about the world in that one post than in years of your previous postings

and it would be fine if you want to start your own thread topic
Bruce Kay

Gym climber
BC
Feb 18, 2013 - 11:28am PT
What tom said. As well I believe that your god would also view it favorably.... but of course that is merely mental speculation on my part!
go-B

climber
Hebrews 1:3
Feb 18, 2013 - 11:40am PT
Sorry, "religioulous", sounds like a Bill Maher sequel!
Cheers!
Dr. F.

Big Wall climber
SoCal
Topic Author's Reply - Feb 18, 2013 - 11:47am PT
Tom
I think you are being negative and very judgemental on a subject you seem not to understand

Plants don't feel, I have may feel sad that a plant is half dead, and yet I still throw it away.

But what do my feeling have to do with anything.

I can tell you this, it is a learning experience, and I will try and learn what went wrong with my cultivation skills that caused the subsequent death.

In fact, the death of plants has made me what is called a "Master Grower"
The reason that I have so many dead is because I am working with some of the most difficult plants to cultivate on the planet.

It's my challenge, my adventure, my grand science experiment to obtain the most rare, most difficult, the slowest possible growth. Which in turn are also the easiest to kill, most finicky, have the longest dormancy's, and so on.

Death is a big part of exotic plant culture, and the way we deal with death is ...
ready for it...

THE TRASH BIN


But I have more plants, I have seeds, I have cuttings... a new plant will fill the spot of the dead
It' my own little "Wonderland of Rocks" in my Garden, First Ascents around every corner


compost my beloved???
Wrong

No. 1 reason not to:
I don't want rotting plants crawling with bugs anywhere Near my living plants. The possiblity of having disease spread is too high.

2) I don't want to see my beloved rotting in a pile of other trash.

3) Out of Sight, Out of Mind
Dr. F.

Big Wall climber
SoCal
Topic Author's Reply - Feb 18, 2013 - 11:49am PT
Goobbers can post scripture IF he types in every word of it

That's the rules, NO CUT AND PASTE Scripture

Otherwise, I don't care if goobs has every other post
Go wild!
go-B

climber
Hebrews 1:3
Feb 18, 2013 - 11:56am PT
What's NO CUT AND PASTE?
WBraun

climber
Feb 18, 2013 - 11:57am PT
In fact, the death of plants has made me what is called a "Master Grower"

Delusion is your master.

You're subordinate to the real Master.

You can't grow sh!t to begin with.

It does not ultimately depend on you alone.

But if you do not care for the living entity correctly it will die because you've brought it into a controlled environment under your care.

But you are not the real master of all the elements and energies required for the life force to be sustained nor are you the "original" life force where from all "life" comes.

In other words you have all the qualities but not the quantity to sustain "life" itself .....

Dr. F.

Big Wall climber
SoCal
Topic Author's Reply - Feb 18, 2013 - 12:07pm PT
The Plants have No life without me
I sustain them, I provide a platform for life
They only exist because of me, I am their God

When I die, my plants will be no longer

They will either go in the trash bin, or be sold to other growers
Dr. F.

Big Wall climber
SoCal
Topic Author's Reply - Feb 18, 2013 - 12:09pm PT
What's NO CUT AND PASTE?

It's when you COPY words from another web site, and PASTE them as a Reply on ST.
WBraun

climber
Feb 18, 2013 - 12:09pm PT
Yes

You are their imitator god.

You have all the qualities of God but not the quantity.

Thus you can "play" God to some limited degree.

That is a fact.

But ultimately you are still subordinate to his ultimate power ......
go-B

climber
Hebrews 1:3
Feb 18, 2013 - 12:16pm PT
The Plants have No life without me

Oh, Dr. F.rankenplant's!
WBraun

climber
Feb 18, 2013 - 12:19pm PT
The Plants have No life without me

That is an untrue statement.

You are not the source of the "Life" force of any living entity ever ......
MH2

climber
Feb 18, 2013 - 12:39pm PT
How do we come to encounter reality itself?


How about if I call reality anything you can be aware of, from as near to nothingness as your brain can approach to nightmares and hallucinations to solid El Cap (although El Cap is shifting and temporary on a long enough time scale).

Then you need to define what you mean by "we" or "I." That is not so easy to do. A neuroscientist can point to your brain and claim that that is where your sense of self resides. However, that sense of self is constructed from your experiences of reality including the world around you, your own body, and your own brain itself.

My own take is that your brain can't spare too much time worrying about reality. It has to keep you fed, out of harm's way, and get you to pass along your genes to the next generation. To do its job well it needs to filter out important stuff from less important stuff.

If you want to open the filters and increase your awareness of what your brain normally ignores there are several well-established approaches, such as meditation or drugs. You can become aware of more stuff but the brain is still limited in what it can perceive without instruments.

Another way to become more aware of reality is to explore the world around you with whatever means appeals to you: science, art, literature, religion, etc. Everything you encounter is an encounter with reality but be careful; it can bite back.

If you are looking for an encounter with all of reality all at once, give me a little warning please, so I can get out of the way. My brain isn't built for it.
WBraun

climber
Feb 18, 2013 - 12:44pm PT
My brain isn't built for it.


But your soul is.

The brain is operated by the soul, YOU, the the living entity, with personality, limited free will, and limited independence.

The brain is not independent of it's own .......
Messages 11781 - 11800 of total 22344 in this topic << First  |  < Previous  |  Show All  |  Next >  |  Last >>
Return to Forum List
Post a Reply
 
Our Guidebooks
Check 'em out!
SuperTopo Guidebooks


Try a free sample topo!

 
SuperTopo on the Web

Review Categories
Recent Route Beta
Recent Gear Reviews