Politics, God and Religion vs. Science

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High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
-A race of corn eaters
Dec 26, 2012 - 01:04pm PT
re: Why bad things happen

A great principle of moral advancement, on a par with “Love thy neighbor” and “All men are created equal,” is the one on the bumper sticker: “Sh#t happens.”

Steven Pinker

.....

Atheist Census. Even though I've moved beyond the atheism-theism ying and yang cycle of tedium, I'm counted. Are you?

http://www.atheistcensus.com/

.....

For fun, I digress...
On 25 October 1668 Pepys was surprised by his wife whilst embracing Deb Willet: he writes that his wife "coming up suddenly, did find me imbracing the girl con [with] my hand sub [under] su [her] coats; and endeed I was with my main [hand] in her cunny. I was at a wonderful loss upon it and the girl also...."

Samuel Pepys (peeps) is now most famous for the diary he kept for a decade while still a relatively young man.

.....

Daniel Dennett at his best...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EUeQXmYVamA
go-B

climber
Hebrews 1:3
Dec 27, 2012 - 09:32am PT
1 Corinthians 3:7 So then neither the one who plants nor the one who waters is anything, but God who causes the growth.

photo not found
Missing photo ID#280765

1 Corinthians 1:29 so that no man may boast before God. 30 But by His doing you are in Christ Jesus, who became to us wisdom from God, and righteousness and sanctification, and redemption, 31 so that, just as it is written, “Let him who boasts, boast in the Lord.”
MH2

climber
Dec 27, 2012 - 11:52am PT









http://hootingyard.org/
Psilocyborg

climber
Dec 27, 2012 - 12:48pm PT
Credit: Psilocyborg
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
-A race of corn eaters
Dec 27, 2012 - 04:22pm PT
Want still more evidence to the validity of the adage, Choose your battles carefully, then watch...



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z99IjOUj7x4

This internet-driven info age has changed everything.

Everything!
Donald Thompson

Trad climber
Los Angeles,CA
Dec 27, 2012 - 04:34pm PT
Everything!

Well, the last time I checked two-step German polkas are the same.
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
-A race of corn eaters
Dec 27, 2012 - 04:40pm PT

Here, you'll love this one...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ekc2Nn03IVM#!

.....

re: beliefs

Now tell me if this doesn't hit the nail on the head.

"A broader danger of unverifiable beliefs is the temptation to defend them by violent means. People become wedded to their beliefs, because the validity of those beliefs reflects on their competence, commends them as authorities, and rationalizes their mandate to lead. Challenge a person’s beliefs, and you challenge his dignity, standing, and power. And when those beliefs are based on nothing but faith, they are chronically fragile. No one gets upset about the belief that rocks fall down as opposed to up, because all sane people can see it with their own eyes. Not so for the belief that babies are born with original sin or that God exists in three persons.... When people organize their lives around these beliefs, and then learn of other people who seem to be doing just fine without them—or worse, who credibly rebut them—they are in danger of looking like fools. Since one cannot defend a belief based on faith by persuading skeptics it is true, the faithful are apt to react to unbelief with rage, and may try to eliminate that affront to everything that makes their lives meaningful."

Steven Pinker

.....

photo not found
Missing photo ID#280853

In this day and age especially, you just can't be an intellectually respectable person and deny it. "It" being either evolution, for instance, or the claim that today's "sophisticated theologians" are just spinning words or making shi't up.

Mommas, don't let your babies grow up to be theologians!
BASE104

Social climber
An Oil Field
Dec 27, 2012 - 06:27pm PT
OK. I edited this to clean it up a little.

There is one side of the coin that says non science people just don't understand the depth of knowledge that we now have. We can also guess how much knowledge that we don't have, and that's a lot.

It is another thing altogether to be willfully ignorant. I thought BB was just talking religion until he said that St. Helens vented 100 times more CO2 than man, which is absolutely untrue. Humans are producing CO2 at a hundred times the rate of ALL volcanoes.

And how did he get on a climate rant in a religious debate? It is because fundamentalist religion doesn't just rag on evolution, it rags on any science that the political right wing hates, which is most science, face it. Right wing politics is either taught at church or is endemic to those who attend the fundamentalist literalist churches.

Seriously, BB. It took me one minute on Google to discover not only St. Helens' CO2 discharge, but the dicharge of all volcanoes relative to the dicharge caused by burning fossil fuels, which is truly massive. That is known, because the amount of fossil fuels that humanity uses is known among all OECD countries. Look it up at the Energy Information Administration which is used worldwide as the CIA of energy statistics.

The volcano/vs human CO2 emissions is here:

Department of Energy's Carbon Dioxide Information Analysis Center (CDIAC) website (http://cdiac.ornl.gov/); helps anyone armed with a handheld calculator and a high school chemistry text put the volcanic CO2 tally into perspective. Because while 200 million tonnes of CO2 is large, the global fossil fuel CO2 emissions for 2003 tipped the scales at 26.8 billion tonnes. Thus, not only does volcanic CO2 not dwarf that of human activity, it actually comprises less than 1 percent of that value.

CO2 and SO2 emissions from volcanoes has been studied long before any serious global warming work was around. It can help understand the source of magma, the type of release, and a lot of general info on studying volcanoes generally. So it has always been very important to vulcanologists.

So imagine St. Helens. Then imagine every volcano on Earth. Multiply that by 100, and you get the human CO2 release. You said that the St. Helens eruption was massive, so just imagine that massive amount of CO2 going into the atmosphere by humans. You can't see it coming out of the exhaust pipe. If the gas were purple, you would understand the problem well. The sky would be turning a weak purple.

Seriously. It took me one minute to find that data from the USGS, an impartial observer. You didn't even look, but spouted propaganda. This makes you willfully ignorant, and if you held any form of ideas subject to peer review, as scientists are, you would have got your ass handed to you, figuratively speaking, and quite quickly. You would have never been published in the first place. You have to understand peer review to know why. I can explain how it works if you like.

There is a big difference between plain ignorance, which we all have, and willful ignorance, such as you have. Willful ignorance is where you don't learn on purpose. In my mind, willful ignorance is pretty bad, but when you start posting information drawn from that willful ignorance, you are doing actual harm.

My job is to find hydrocarbons. It has been my entire professional life for almost 30 years. They are nasty, but we tend to look at it from a common sense resource availability problem and generally plead with the public to stop wasting the precious stuff. It is becoming obvious that the cheap hydrocarbons have mostly been found, and that means that the increasing population is going to meet the decreasing hydrocarbon production in the next 20 to 50 years, and prices will skyrocket. Of course, oil companies will be blamed for this, but it is simply supply and demand. Oil is traded all over the world, and price is not set by the largest oil companies. They don't control enough of the resource to control price.

The Energy Information Administration has more statistics on Energy than you could read in 6 months. Like I said, it is the CIA of energy, and the data is of high quality. I have never even seen the data questioned. Oil and gas futures prices use this data, and the whole industry makes price forecasts from the data to plan their annual drilling programs.

Do not be willfully ignorant. Google is good, but you need to find a good source, like the USGS. It isn't that hard, and if anyone else pulls this crap, beware, because I know this stuff and will remind you of your error.

I was an as#@&%e to Go-B over mathematics. I'm very sorry of that. He is a nice guy and works at a needed occupation. All work is honorable, as my dad taught me. Nobody is bettern than another, but we all have our areas of expertise.

Go-B, I'm having problems with my peach trees producing so much fruit that the limbs break. I know I am going to have to trim the limbs back, but what is the best time of year, Go-B. I excuse you if you don't live in a peach state.
go-B

climber
Hebrews 1:3
Dec 27, 2012 - 07:32pm PT
Quick answer, prune your Peach in late winter after last frost!



Pruning Peach Trees
http://pubs.ext.vt.edu/422/422-020/422-020.html

The California Backyard Orchard
http://homeorchard.ucdavis.edu/The_Big_Picture/




Dr. F.

Ice climber
SoCal
Topic Author's Reply - Dec 27, 2012 - 07:38pm PT
Thanks for the info Base

100+ to 1
anyone can understand that
BASE104

Social climber
An Oil Field
Dec 28, 2012 - 12:16am PT
See? Ask an expert in their field and thy shall receive.

I shall prune back the limbs as instructed. Seriously, I have been in peach orchards, where they prune the limbs back enourmously. There are a bunch of new shoots that come out that are filled with fruit. And they don't split down the middle.

I have seen the pruned trees. I ask an authority and now I know how to do it. So Go-B made me a little wiser about things, and I am happy to get the info.

That is how knowledge works. Go-B might not realize it, but his skill has huge economic implications. Dealing with fruit or other types of fruit trees is what puts fruit in our grocery stores.

Go-B. Go research all kinds of trees and write a book called "Tree care for dumbies." You will get rich and be able to hire the rest of us.

That is how it works. It has nothing to do with that now ugly word, "Elite."
Klimmer

Mountain climber
San Diego
Dec 28, 2012 - 12:22am PT
Since this isn't getting any play on the original posted thread, I might as well post it here. It's got everything: Religion, Science, Music written in Space, NASA Astronaut, Holiday Cheer. What's not to love?






Merry Christmas and Happy New Year!

May 2013 bring great things that are out of this world ....



http://www.space.com/19050-first-original-song-space-lyrics.html


http://www.space.com/19041-jewel-in-the-night-astronauts-1st-song-in-space-video.html


Jewel in the Night

By Chris Hadfield, Astronaut, Canadian Space Agency

So bright,
Jewel in the Night,
There in my window below.

So bright,
Dark as the night,
with all of our cities aglow.

It's long been our way,
To honor this day,
And offer goodwill to men.

And though,
Where ever we go,
It's come round to Christmas again.

So far,
Shines ever star,
There without limit to see.

So grand,
Faraway land,
Beckoning, calling to me.

And let it be shown,
Wherever we go,
In all of the wonders above.

With all that we bring,
There's no finer thing,
Than this message, this promise of love.

Love for the families that gather below,
Love for the stranger that you'll never know,
For those who are with you,
who wander above.

So bright,
Jewel in the Night,
There lies the cradle we knew.

Home of,
All that we love,
And all of our memories too.

It shall be our way to wander away,
to take with us all that we know,

And never cease,
This message of peace,
From Bethlehem so long ago.




Playing guitar in space or how to prepare to do so:
http://www.space.com/14657-guitar-learning-play-space.html
BASE104

Social climber
An Oil Field
Dec 28, 2012 - 02:11am PT
Klimmer,

I have no idea what you just said.

Tell some more apocalypse stories. Re-post that timeline. I enjoy apocalyptic ramblings. Why are they always wrong? So far.

I am gathering my info to make a post describing some greenhouse events in the geologic past. They are almost certainly CO2 caused. There were periods of really great vulcanism in the recent (last 500 million year) history of the planet.

There is no reason to doubt that human increase in CO2 will affect climate. The real question is how much? A lot of people complain about climate science because it is difficult to accurately predict how much. When dealing with something as important as the climate, which controls food production and population distribution, it seems like people would all be curious about it.

Instead it has become a political issue. I regret saying this, but the Republican Party in its current carnation doesn't believe in science, but they love engineers who can do all sorts of fancy new killing machines. I'm not kidding. I've had it with the New Right and their bedmates the fundamentalist Christians.

If the Republicans had their way, a lot of science would be censored in my opinion. I can't forgive them for that until they change.
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Dec 28, 2012 - 05:21am PT
Pruned more peach trees in SoIll orchard work than I care to remember, tough job if you're really doing it right and definitely skilled labor if you expect a decent crop the following year.
cintune

climber
The Utility Muffin Research Kitchen
Dec 28, 2012 - 11:11am PT
go-B

climber
Hebrews 1:3
Dec 28, 2012 - 11:55am PT
photo not found
Missing photo ID#280936

John 4:31 Meanwhile the disciples were urging Him, saying, “Rabbi, eat.” 32 But He said to them, “I have food to eat that you do not know about.” 33 So the disciples were saying to one another, “No one brought Him anything to eat, did he?” 34 Jesus *said to them, “My food is to do the will of Him who sent Me and to accomplish His work. 35 Do you not say, ‘There are yet four months, and then comes the harvest’? Behold, I say to you, lift up your eyes and look on the fields, that they are white for harvest. 36 Already he who reaps is receiving wages and is gathering fruit for life eternal; so that he who sows and he who reaps may rejoice together. 37 For in this case the saying is true, ‘One sows and another reaps.’ 38 I sent you to reap that for which you have not labored; others have labored and you have entered into their labor.”

John 5:19 Therefore Jesus answered and was saying to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, the Son can do nothing of Himself, unless it is something He sees the Father doing; for whatever the Father does, these things the Son also does in like manner. 20 For the Father loves the Son, and shows Him all things that He Himself is doing; and the Father will show Him greater works than these, so that you will marvel. 21 For just as the Father raises the dead and gives them life, even so the Son also gives life to whom He wishes. 22 For not even the Father judges anyone, but He has given all judgment to the Son, 23 so that all will honor the Son even as they honor the Father. He who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent Him.

24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

John 6:35 Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life; he who comes to Me will not hunger, and he who believes in Me will never thirst. 36 But I said to you that you have seen Me, and yet do not believe. 37 All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will certainly not cast out. 38 For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me. 39 This is the will of Him who sent Me, that of all that He has given Me I lose nothing, but raise it up on the last day. 40 For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day.”

John 8:26 I have many things to speak and to judge concerning you, but He who sent Me is true; and the things which I heard from Him, these I speak to the world.” 27 They did not realize that He had been speaking to them about the Father. 28 So Jesus said, “When you lift up the Son of Man, then you will know that I am He, and I do nothing on My own initiative, but I speak these things as the Father taught Me. 29 And He who sent Me is with Me; He has not left Me alone, for I always do the things that are pleasing to Him."

42 Jesus said to them, “If God were your Father, you would love Me, for I proceeded forth and have come from God, for I have not even come on My own initiative, but He sent Me.

John 12:44 And Jesus cried out and said, “He who believes in Me, does not believe in Me but in Him who sent Me. 45 He who sees Me sees the One who sent Me. 46 I have come as Light into the world, so that everyone who believes in Me will not remain in darkness. 47 If anyone hears My sayings and does not keep them, I do not judge him; for I did not come to judge the world, but to save the world. 48 He who rejects Me and does not receive My sayings, has one who judges him; the word I spoke is what will judge him at the last day. 49 For I did not speak on My own initiative, but the Father Himself who sent Me has given Me a commandment as to what to say and what to speak. 50 I know that His commandment is eternal life; therefore the things I speak, I speak just as the Father has told Me.”

... Jesus came down from Heaven and did the works of the Father that only He could do! We but have to believe in Him to have eternal life, thank Him for all He has accomplished!
Dr. F.

Ice climber
SoCal
Topic Author's Reply - Dec 28, 2012 - 12:00pm PT
“I have food to eat that you do not know about.” 33 So the disciples were saying to one another, “No one brought Him anything to eat, did he?” 34 Jesus *said to them, “My food is to do the will of Him who sent Me and to accomplish His work. 35 Do you not say, ‘There are yet four months, and then comes the harvest’? Behold, I say to you, lift up your eyes and look on the fields,

Gibberish for those who can't use their god given mind
Klimmer

Mountain climber
San Diego
Dec 28, 2012 - 12:37pm PT
Klimmer,

I have no idea what you just said.

Tell some more apocalypse stories. Re-post that timeline. I enjoy apocalyptic ramblings. Why are they always wrong? So far.



Smart scientists know G-d. The Book of Nature agrees with the Book of G-d. When it seems not to, then that is our misunderstanding.
Galileo -- "If someone misreads the Heavens, then perhaps they also misread the word of G-d.":




Aristotle -- well, ok he believed in many gods. Greek gods = Fallen Angels and Nephilim. He helped start the rudiments of science.

Copernicus

Tycho Brahe & Johannes Kepler

Galileo Galilei

Sir Isaac Newton

Albert Einstein


All men of faith to some degree, even Einstein, and then also they were great scientists and laid the foundation of Modern Science. This story and many other prime examples can go on and on. There are books written on just this topic.








To know the timeline for the end of days, you then must know the Bible. Perhaps it will encourage you to pick up The Good Book and read and study. You want to know the deep secrets, correct? Then get into it. Knock and the door will be opened unto you. But you won't understand it completely until you have Yeshua HaMashaich in your heart. Invite him in.





Dr. F.

Ice climber
SoCal
Topic Author's Reply - Dec 28, 2012 - 12:42pm PT
5 months of Locust Torture??
Is that Worldwide?, or just in some areas?

Klimmer

Mountain climber
San Diego
Dec 28, 2012 - 12:54pm PT
You missed believing in Yeshua HaMashiach, and safety in Jordan, and Mt. Zion, and escaping all of these things to come. This is available for you, your family, and your friends if you believe and have faith.

Or perhaps you want to directly experience and go through the worst of The Beginning of Sorrows, the wrath of satan, followed by The Wrath of G-d? We are caught in the middle of a spiritual war. But Good News for Us, we know the game plan and how it's all gonna end. We know G-d is victorious. I'm gonna be with him. :-))

What's it gonna be Dr. F?
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