Politics, God and Religion vs. Science

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Messages 11561 - 11580 of total 22351 in this topic << First  |  < Previous  |  Show All  |  Next >  |  Last >>
MH2

climber
Feb 10, 2013 - 09:57pm PT
all were amazed and glorified God, saying, “We never saw anything like this!”


Irony is not dead. Self-satire is good. I have seen something very like that.
Largo

Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
Feb 10, 2013 - 10:01pm PT
Only in ol time religions stuck in the "ghost in the machine" idea does a spirit equate to an immaterial ghost of some sort.
-----


The duality of material and immaterial is entirely of your own making, dear Fruity. If you are totally identified with your evaluating mind, reality and existence will render you a materialist POV, which you will and have defended with fundamentalist fervor. But the proof of your inability to move off of that narrow platform is your resistance to ever ask a question to which you don not already have an answer in your mind. Imagine going into a scientific inquiry knowing not much of anything and instead of asking questions, just braying on and on about things entirely besides the point. This is precisely what you are doing with your incessant and tedious ranting on Abrahamic religion, and in your recent foray in which you define spirituality according to to a model that fits your lack of understanding i.e., having to do with a thing, or non-material entity, et al), then attempting to batch group the whole shebang into one silly box that you can ridicule as simply another form of Abrahamic folderol - as though everyone but you is deluded. What's more, insisting that to fein to have questions that have no material answer is itself delusional - this is precisely where a serious student should be asking questions, not proffering rote answers that have nothing to do with the subject.

Like I said, there are those whose every question has a material solution or "answer." Insisting there are others who think and feel differently, and that every last one of them is, has been and always will be delusional, is to insinuate you are privy to the inner workings and experiential content of all mankind, forever. This, my breathern, is narcissism on an intergalactic scale - of that we may be sure.

JL
NoTokeRedKneck

climber
Feb 10, 2013 - 10:01pm PT
Newton made the very mistake I was mentioning - hoping that a close study of the natural world would answer spiritual questions, and finding no such thing, blaming spiritual for not "manning up" in material form.

Simply put, there are questions and inquiries that lie beyond materialism - of that we may be sure. If materialism answers all of your questions - so be it. If it doesn't, it is proof only that the inquiry is not a material one. If every inquiry must be a material quest, that's your decision, and more power to you. It's entirely beside the point unless your belief system is a materialist rendition of fundamentalism, and as the saying goes - never argue with someone stuck in a perspective.

JL
I saw this earlier but did not know what to think. I thought id go by
socalbolters place so i did but their quiet tonight. While outside of
the fight media place just down the street the black hair female employee
came out again and again offered me a smoke. Just prior to her going back
to work I nodded towards some commercial vehicles across the street and
told her again im going to speak to them again, she said yes that's what
I need to do to get done.

I also want to prepare a personal statutory driving record noting to the
Canadian girls in the office the codes upon which its prepared. Of course
they may ask of me further questions also by statute. Im past the floppy
i need to decide quickly upon a word processor for this beast and get
done.
moosedrool

Trad climber
lost, far away from Poland
Feb 10, 2013 - 10:11pm PT
“Three things cannot be long hidden: the sun, the moon, and the truth.”

Hmm...
Malemute

Ice climber
the ghost
Feb 10, 2013 - 10:11pm PT
I can't get over the fact that G-d NEEDS MONEY !!!!!!
MH2

climber
Feb 10, 2013 - 10:14pm PT
Like I said, there are those whose every question has a material solution or "answer." Insisting there are others who think and feel differently, and that every last one of them is, has been and always will be delusional, is to insinuate you are privy to the inner workings and experiential content of all mankind, forever.


Say, JL, could you please remind me what is special about experiential content? As compared to the 'motion content' of water or oxygen molecules for example?
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Feb 10, 2013 - 10:16pm PT
Do 'you' exist without subjective experience?

As for the question of general anesthesia, it's the same question as Temple Grandin's about death: 'but where do they go'?
NoTokeRedKneck

climber
Feb 10, 2013 - 10:40pm PT
I can't get over the fact that G-d NEEDS MONEY !!!!!!

http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/displaycode?section=lab&group=00001-01000&file=500-558

So does free software and open source volunteers make sense by law
being 515.5 within the above labor code?
Klimmer

Mountain climber
San Diego
Feb 10, 2013 - 10:41pm PT
So atheists, agnostics, seekers, and my fellow believers,


How does one come to grips with what's happening Worldwide in the Islam/Muslim world?


The spiritual is very real. No other way to explain all the visions and dreams of Jesus that Muslims are having now all around the world and coming to faith in Yeshua HaMashiach as a result.

G-d is moving in very big ways the world over.

http://m.cbn.com/cbnnews/insideisrael/2012/June/Dreams-Visions-Moving-Muslims-to-Christ/

http://youtu.be/LW1ui_RDYxQ



“For God speaks once, yea twice, yet man perceives it not. In a dream, in a vision of the night, when deep sleep falleth upon men, in slumberings upon the bed; Then he opens the ears of men and seals their instruction.” Job 33: 14-16






Is this all just a mass delusion and mass hysteria? What does all this mean?


I know the answer, and I think you all know too, but you don't want to admit it.

(My fellow believers know what's going on. ;-)) )
Largo

Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
Feb 10, 2013 - 10:43pm PT
Say, JL, could you please remind me what is special about experiential content? As compared to the 'motion content' of water or oxygen molecules for example?
--


I assume that this is an honest and straightforward question, and not what psychologists call a "set up," whereby someone feeling disingenuous or passive aggressive asks a "question" (to which they are convinced they already have the "right" answer) in order to summon an answer that will reflect poorly on the person attempting an honest response.

Anyhow, "special" can be a tricky word, especially if your evaluating mind tends to place a value on same, whereas experience is proffered as more important or substantial than photons ricocheting around my office here.

Simply put, human experience is qualitatively different than moving water because of the observer who bears witness to experience. In some traditions, the flow of experience is said to be insubstantial owing to the constant morphing into the next feeling, thought, sensation, etc. What is "real" is the observing itself - but not the observer, which is a only a mental construct. There is no ghost in the machine. There is only observing and the flow of content and experience.

I would point out that your mind quickly goes to content - the motion of water, electrons, or things in your experience, but it was your powers of observation that noticed this in the first instance, ergo the tricky question.

JL
NoTokeRedKneck

climber
Feb 10, 2013 - 11:00pm PT
I know the answer, and I think you all know too, but you don't want to admit it.

I did not read all that.

Dr. Walter Martin a Theologian seemed to me in the 1970's to be trying
to convert Islam into Christianity based upon the acceptance that Jesus
is God and not some sort of a prophet.

Dr. Walter Martin classified cults as those who profess to have the
1 and only truth. However at this time Christianity taught that you
must accept Jesus and God as a egg comparison to be saved. This seems
to me to be the same as which he classifies as a cult.
WBraun

climber
Feb 10, 2013 - 11:39pm PT
The gross materialists are nothing more than polished robots who's souls are chained and bounded of their own makings ........

MisterE

Social climber
Feb 10, 2013 - 11:48pm PT
Since it's already at the top of the page, what the hell:

WBraun

climber
Feb 10, 2013 - 11:52pm PT
There's no arguments here except your lame attempt. ^^^^

Just statements.

Go back into your silly dark corner from where you hide ......
BASE104

Social climber
An Oil Field
Feb 11, 2013 - 12:02am PT
Werner, you and Largo are creating a false dichotomy. In simpler words, you peg somebody with words such as "Gross Materialist" to make it simpler to attack them.

A false dichotomy is a big political tool. An example: You are either against the terrorists or for them. See? You admit no middle way.

Another rhetorical way to attack somebody is to label them with a catchy phrase to make it easier to attack them. Those are called "weasel words" by Carl Sagan. "Gross Materialist" is one. I should point them out as we move along. The Patriot Act, Operation Just Cause, these words are everywhere, and most people drink the syrup.

It is just debate 101. It keeps things simpler and more polite. It also helps prevent total breakdown into ranting.

When you guys label me that way, I am offended. I know where you are coming from. It is a search for meaning in the most obvious holes in our reality based drudgery. The first person who could think probably asked "Is this all there is?"

These are natural questions, and I think it is pretty silly to like or dislike someone because of their beliefs as long as they don't blow a fuse over it.

I have nothing to offer other than that. Sometimes I'm too busy to keep up, other times I sit back and watch. This is a great thread, though. Many strong minds addressing deep questions and keeping it civil on the internet.

The only exception is when Thechief drops in. He is a mean person I've decided. William S. Burroughs had a great quote about people like him. It basically ends up with the advice to avoid that person in the future. It is tucked away in this spoken word piece, Words Of Advice For Young People."

Here it is. Burroughs was one twisted dude. Has anyone here made it through Naked Lunch?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=scU3WE560Gc
WBraun

climber
Feb 11, 2013 - 12:06am PT
The gross materialists

No one here was named a gross materialist.

Are you attaching yourself to to this label ......?
Jan

Mountain climber
Okinawa, Japan
Feb 11, 2013 - 12:07am PT
Klimmer-

From an anthropological point of view, it is not surprising that many Muslims are thinking about and having dreams of Jesus. The biggest religious clash in the world right now is between Christianity and Islam. There are many thoughtful Muslims who are appalled at what is done in their name. Not surprising that some wonder what it would be like to be a member of a religion that teaches forgiveness rather than revenge.

Whenever western society has clashed with other traditions, Jesus has entered into the narrative. There was a Chinese man 150 years ago, Hong Xiuquan, who thought that he was the younger brother of Jesus who was called upon to throw the Manchu rulers of China out in favor of Han Chinese and make China Christian. The whole movement in the west is known as the Taiping Rebellion. Needless to say, China did not become Christian and the world didn't end.

The Rev. Moon played on a somewhat similar theme, believing that he had spoken with both Jesus and Buddha who advised him to found a new religion (this in complete contradiction to the Buddhist notion of parinirvana by the way). Likewise there are many other messiah-millenarial, nativistic and cargo cults around the world that interpret events through some form of Jesus and Christianity and their own native traditions. There are sub Saharan people in Africa exposed to the pressures of Islam with similar reactions. And there has been a steady steam of young European and American men who have converted to Islam and gone off to follow the glamor of holy war. Meanwhile, Christianity and Islam together are less than half the world's people.

The Chinese represent 25% of the human race and the Indians 20%. How come you're not concerned with their religious beliefs? Isn't it a little incestuous to focus Christianity's attention so much on converting Jews and Muslims? Can't it just be accepted that there are different interpretations of the same holy books?
Largo

Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
Feb 11, 2013 - 12:37am PT
In simpler words, you peg somebody with words such as "Gross Materialist" to make it simpler to attack them.


What's amazing to me is that while people can hammer on me hard from a materialist POV, the moment I question same or offer an alternative POV I'm "attacking" someone and should be more polite in the process because I'm offending cha cha cha.

Now BASE, if your experience and view of reality is not based on materialism, kindly spell out where you diverge from the party line, ie that all reality seen and unseen is simply blow back from strictly material antecedents.

Curious.

JL
BASE104

Social climber
An Oil Field
Feb 11, 2013 - 12:46am PT
Tossing the word Schizophrenia around as some sort of demeaning joke is barbaric. These people, and others with serious and chronic mental illnesses, live in agony. Just look up the suicide rates. They are astronomic. Shame on you people.

By the way, how do the spiritualists think about mental illness? Where does it come from?

What happens to the soul of a poor creature who kills themself to make the pain go away?
WBraun

climber
Feb 11, 2013 - 12:48am PT
Becomes a ghost.

Suicide you lose your gross physical body which you are not the real owner.

Now you have no gross physical body to work in and you're in your subtle body, ghost.

You can't be here nor you can't go on.

Ghost ......
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