Politics, God and Religion vs. Science

Search
Go

Discussion Topic

Return to Forum List
Post a Reply
Messages 11361 - 11380 of total 22713 in this topic << First  |  < Previous  |  Show All  |  Next >  |  Last >>
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
-A race of corn eaters
Dec 2, 2012 - 06:04pm PT
Jingy,

Key words, key concepts, there: (1) meaning making (2) meaning makers (3) meaning systems.

Any new discipline, science-based or not, to emerge beyond religion and theology in coming years to decades and covering "what matters" in addition to "what is" and "what works" will likely be conceived, defined, and appreciated (as David Sloan Wilson says) at least in part as a "meaning system" in addition to other descriptions.

Dan Dennett is spot on. "Meaning" is a bottom up development. We humans are the meaning makers for ourselves, our groups and on up, to the species at large.

It's one more reason, if another is needed, for any new (belief) discipline that emerges in the future to distinguish itself from the maladaptive meaning systems (i.e., religions) of the past - beginning with the name.

Thanks for the DD post.
BLUEBLOCR

Social climber
joshua tree
Dec 2, 2012 - 06:45pm PT
base
i do not mean to confuse my "religion" with my "scientism".i only wish to understand to postulate my conclussion...

"If you fail to procreate before death then you species has a lower chance of survival. If they all fail to procreate, then the species goes extinct."

So do you see life in Bacteria? IF bacteria has a need to "procreate"
before it's "death".It must have some "feeling" of "birth". And if so,
must have some feeling of time?

Also isnt "procreation" a stretch for Bacteria? dont they just "eat"
other things untill their big enough to divide into two?


"Their God is the old testament God"
OT God had to rule with an iron fist to justify the Law.The Jews beleive
they are still "doing good" in Gods eyes and have not a need for Grace.
they are waiting for the Christ who will over come their enemys with an
Eye for an Eye measurment.
Bruce Kay

Gym climber
BC
Dec 2, 2012 - 06:52pm PT
blueblocr - you totally crack me up. I swear you must talk in that sing song preacher stuff just to throw us off the scent. Ok go ahead and love your brother. If that somehow gets you off the hook for allowing those scurillous rogues to burn gays at the stake and keep young dumb teenage girls pregnant and poor just because they wear a Jesus ring and know the secret handshake then you are more willfully duplicitous than I thought. What would Jesus do? He'd kick their sorry asses out of the temple.
BLUEBLOCR

Social climber
joshua tree
Dec 2, 2012 - 07:58pm PT
bruce
if you have a bible go to john 8:6-12

in this the scribes and preists test Jesus asking; what shall we do with this woman who was caught in the act of adultry? the Law says we shall stone her to death.What do you say? Jesus ignored them,and stooped and drew in the sand. When they continued to ask. He stood and said, "You
judge according to the flesh; I judge no one. those of you without sin
cast the first stone". Again He stooped and drew in the sand. until they all left, but the woman. when Jesus stood and asked the woman; "where are those accusers of yours? Has no one condemned you?" She said NO. And Jesus said, "neither do I condemn you; go and sin no more."

THIS is SOOO important in understanding Gods judgement through Jesus Christ
Jesus said He does not judge acts of the flesh. Her sin was that she caused
others to hate and condemn her.

lots of spiritual lessons here. hard to fathom for the materialist

jogill

climber
Colorado
Dec 2, 2012 - 08:54pm PT
With the good JL recovering, having gone under the anaesthesia, I'm reminded of how such an experience leaves no recognition or recollection of the passage of time. One smiles at the nurse, then immediately awakens. Five hours may have elapsed, but from the perspective of the patient, not a second has passed. I suppose when we die, at that instant of losing consciousness, "we" in essence travel instantaneously to the very end of time. All our mathematics and physics, the space-time continuum, all the theories, all the wonderful experiments . . . all of it is nowhere to be found. We all ultimately solve the mystery of the universe . . . unaware we have done so.


;>)
Bruce Kay

Gym climber
BC
Dec 2, 2012 - 09:05pm PT
Jesus said He does not judge acts of the flesh. Her sin was that she caused
others to hate and condemn her.

ok walk me through it. If Jesus won't judge acts of the flesh how come all the bomastic pompous bigots get to do it all in his name? Is it because the act of flesh caused the toads to hate them? That is their sin?

Sorry for being so literally materialist and all but I am unschooled of the way, thus I note many contradictions, hypocrisies, irrationality and dubious application of morality.
MH2

climber
Dec 3, 2012 - 08:55am PT
I note many contradictions, hypocrisies, irrationality and dubious application of morality.



If you partly melt a Coke™ bottle (=Blueblocr) and shine a laser (=God's love) through it then you will understand what is happening. Maybe you don't even need to distort the bottle, first.
MikeL

climber
SANTA CLARA, CA
Dec 3, 2012 - 09:13am PT
Dr. F:

Importance is not the same thing as purpose. Do you get that?

And while we're at it: who is to say what's important about a species or not? I'm pretty sure you're not going to lay claim to God, so how can you tell what's important or not? Who says that survival of one species over another is more important? You're a specie-centric nazi. Life is life, dude. Get off your ideological pedestal.

If you feel compelled to take a stand about what's important, then you're in the realm of culture, as Jan points out. Importance is a human decision and definition, but there is nothing in the universe that shows us that one thing is more important than another.

Are you for science or not? If you are, then start thinking like you are. Be objective. It's all just facts. Meaning (e.g., importance) falls in the realm of human culture.
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
-A race of corn eaters
Dec 3, 2012 - 09:28am PT
Vacuous MikeL wrote,
You're a specie-centric nazi. Life is life, dude. Get off your ideological pedestal.

EH might be smitten with you or your nonsense but I'm not.

You're an as#@&%e.

(And research all 4000 of my posts, I don't use these terms lightly. You deserve them.)

Are you for science or not? If you are, then start thinking like you are.

Loser. You're the one who is obviously void of any hands on life experience in science. If not, I stand to be corrected. Post up your CV in physics, chemistry, biology or engineering. Till I see something substantive, you're just a mouthy vacuous pussy.
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
-A race of corn eaters
Dec 3, 2012 - 09:51am PT
Things you might say if you flunked Science 101: (1) The age of the earth is a mystery, maybe 6,000 years old. (Marco Rubio) (2 "The mind is infinitely energetic..." (MikeL)

Things you might say if you flunked Reasoning 101: The mind ... does nothing but Make Sense. (MikeL) (2) "Human intuition is NEVER wrong." (Oprah)
BLUEBLOCR

Social climber
joshua tree
Dec 3, 2012 - 11:10am PT
CornSpew recited:

" Meaning" is a bottom up development. We humans are the meaning makers for ourselves,"

Sooo whats ur meaning? OR are U just MEAN?

seems to me your Creativity is ignited by a Negative response to other
peoples ideas? I bet you would make a good "returns" clerk at HomeDepot!

im sure with ALL that edumacation you could come up with something smart
to say? compared to always rebounding off others...
Donald Thompson

Trad climber
Los Angeles,CA
Dec 3, 2012 - 01:15pm PT
I took it as the challenge: "put up or shut up" that is, if we don't have a scientific explanation then we can't say we do... if we believe that there is a scientific explanation for some of these things, it isn't the same thing as having one...

Very good and very logical advice, and therefore surely to be ignored on this thread by the usual suspects who insist on recruiting science for personal and political motives.
Dr. F.

Ice climber
SoCal
Topic Author's Reply - Dec 3, 2012 - 02:08pm PT
Wow MikeL

I didn't even use the word importance?? (or did I)
But I have no idea what the hell your talking about

I do know that I was 100% correct on life being all about procreation, and the mandate of survival over anything, never give up, always fight against death, is very a big part the DNA of all living creatures.

how can a species survive if it doesn't care if lives or dies, or doesn't want to procreate. That is the species' only purpose.

Humans are not included in this discussion, since they are overpopulated, so more death, and less procreation is actually a good thing for human survival

Dr. F.

Ice climber
SoCal
Topic Author's Reply - Dec 3, 2012 - 02:11pm PT
Credit: Dr. F.
Donald Thompson

Trad climber
Los Angeles,CA
Dec 3, 2012 - 02:45pm PT

how can a species survive if it doesn't care if lives or dies, or doesn't want to procreate. That is the species' only purpose.

The above sentiment is grossly teleological and more representative of the author's state of mind than of any objectively discernible quality inherent in DNA. The mechanism of DNA has not hitherto been shown to contain a 'purpose' a priori - no more than molecules of water have a purpose when heated to greater activity by applied heat.
Dr. F.

Ice climber
SoCal
Topic Author's Reply - Dec 3, 2012 - 02:47pm PT
I was talking about evolution, you Moron
Donald Thompson

Trad climber
Los Angeles,CA
Dec 3, 2012 - 02:50pm PT


I was talking about evolution you Moron

You didn't know what the hell you were talking about, as always.

BTW I wish you would strongly consider amending your opening post on this thread. In light of the diversity of subjects contained within the thread that have developed since then ,that long-ago post seems more than just a little anachronistic, cranky, and appallingly badly worded. In a word, mildly embarrassing ,to all of us who post here.

For example , consider this new title : "Politics, God,and Religion vs. Amateur Podiatry and Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle "
Riley Wyna

Trad climber
A crack near you
Dec 3, 2012 - 02:50pm PT
. The above sentiment is grossly teleological and more representative of the author's state of mind than of any objectively discernible quality inherent in DNA. The mechanism of DNA does not contain a 'purpose' a priori - no more than molecules of water have a purpose when heated to greater activity by applied heat.

Bahahahaha
Dunghole doesn't understand natural selection....
Bahahahaha...
BLUEBLOCR

Social climber
joshua tree
Dec 3, 2012 - 03:01pm PT
drf

" I do know that I was 100% correct on life being all about procreation, and the mandate of survival over anything, never give up, always fight against death, is very a big part the DNA of all living creatures.

how can a species survive if it doesn't care if lives or dies, or doesn't want to procreate. That is the species' only purpose."

This is another one of those; WWHHHAAAATTTTTTTTT!

This is YOUR "opinion" right???? Certainly the Evolutionary world doesn't
point at a Cactti and say it "wants" to "procreate". Or it "cares" if it
"lives" or "dies"

Donald Thompson

Trad climber
Los Angeles,CA
Dec 3, 2012 - 03:09pm PT
Dunghole doesn't understand natural selection

ad hominem inter-thread drift by someone who genuinely doesn't understand natural selection, teleology, or the proper deportment.

When you are a dashing liberal man-about-town it is the hackneyed default position to consider conservatives as Neanderthals incapable of higher understandings in science ,unlike the ever glowing cerebrum of the radical leftist who has embraced 'evolution' as if it were just another political agenda item.
Messages 11361 - 11380 of total 22713 in this topic << First  |  < Previous  |  Show All  |  Next >  |  Last >>
Return to Forum List
Post a Reply
 
Our Guidebooks
Check 'em out!
SuperTopo Guidebooks


Try a free sample topo!

 
SuperTopo on the Web

Review Categories
Recent Route Beta
Recent Gear Reviews