Politics, God and Religion vs. Science

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Jingy

climber
Somewhere out there
Feb 6, 2013 - 03:15pm PT
oh, but the questions are oh so tainted.... right?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wifUXxsOPMA




Fools... all of the religious
Spider Savage

Mountain climber
The shaggy fringe of Los Angeles
Feb 6, 2013 - 03:39pm PT
Fools who seek the answer to the question: What is death?

Science has not delivered an answer that these people want to hear.


Is it foolish to embrace a religious dogma? Or a "scientific" dogma?



I've been trying to keep up with this thread but trying to keep up with the philosophy students is tough. They are speaking in specialized language.

A great primer here to understand what has been discussed recently:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_will
Jan

Mountain climber
Okinawa, Japan
Feb 6, 2013 - 04:28pm PT
Jingy-

If you think that all religious people are fools, you need to watch the Cambridge debate video that fructose posted featuring the Archbishop of Canterbury and a well know Muslim professor along with Dawkins and others. Or you might watch a video of Desmond Tutu. They bear no resemblance to American religionists. I'd say American religionists are more the product of America's tradition of anti-intellectualism than they are of religion. They're anti-intellectual in every other aspect of their life too.
Getch

Mountain climber
Flagstaff, AZ
Feb 6, 2013 - 04:34pm PT
So I'm a newbie here, I imagined my first post to be about my first wall in Zion (ran out of time on prodigal in December had to go run ragnar lv). This thread looks pretty good, I didn't realize so many of the people here were equally learned at philosophy as climbing.

I struggle with the idea of free will regularly. We require it of those subject to our criminal justice system (where I work), but have volumes of descriptives that show disparity. How can we punish those who we know were at least influenced (neuroscience is developing theories that show our behaviours to be more determined then we would like to think)by their previous experience? We have the heuvos to presume we understand another's thought process, which is bs.

I think there is also a problem with the word "free" or at least how it is used. We are free from nothing; there is no outcome in the universe with no influence. We claim to live in a free society; isn't that an oxymoron?

Why are the confines of the physical universe any different then those of the mind? The idea of free will eventually requires a singularity, some call it god. None of that has been shown.
Dr. F.

Big Wall climber
SoCal
Topic Author's Reply - Feb 6, 2013 - 04:45pm PT
Credit: Dr. F.
This plant has no free will
Nor does it have a brain and a nervous system
nor can it make choices, it just lives, grows, flowers, then dies when something goes wrong.
WBraun

climber
Feb 6, 2013 - 06:59pm PT
And you're a terrible scientist with no good brain as usual. ^^^^

Free will only applies to human beings and higher ......
go-B

climber
Hebrews 1:3
Feb 6, 2013 - 07:06pm PT
What is Free Will?
How can man have free will if God predestines people to salvation? Doesn’t predestination override human free will? What about choice?

http://www.ligonier.org/rym/broadcasts/audio/what-free-will1/
Dr. F.

Big Wall climber
SoCal
Topic Author's Reply - Feb 6, 2013 - 07:59pm PT
Free will only applies to human beings and higher ......
WB

Who are these "higher"??

We still havene't confirmed if human beings have free will or not.
and you say the "higher" have it

Let's discuss "higher", for a change.

Are they Republicans??
now that is funny!, right?
WBraun

climber
Feb 6, 2013 - 08:07pm PT
We still haven't confirmed if human beings have free will or not.

That's because you're terrible scientists.

You waste 9 billion dollars to smash some sh!t in a tube and still don't know sh!t.

In the future we will know more they say.

Give us 9 billion more so we can make more toys that don't do sh!t.

As modern science progresses the world is keeps getting worst and worst to where people are now wondering if we're all going to go extinct.

Modern science is so wonderful. :-)

Knee jerk reactions will now commence with vengeance ......



moosedrool

Trad climber
lost, far away from Poland
Feb 6, 2013 - 08:08pm PT
Let's discuss "higher", for a change.

I think there is a pretty good chance that humans are not the smartest and most advanced beings in the Universe. Maybe they have free will and know whether we have free will.
moosedrool

Trad climber
lost, far away from Poland
Feb 6, 2013 - 08:13pm PT
Common now, is the duck changing into a troll?
WBraun

climber
Feb 6, 2013 - 08:16pm PT
moosedrool

You never know what the duck will say.

It's not a robot .......
moosedrool

Trad climber
lost, far away from Poland
Feb 6, 2013 - 08:26pm PT
Maybe I don't know what the duck will say, but I KNOW nobody will understand it :)
Psilocyborg

climber
Feb 6, 2013 - 08:36pm PT
^^^^ I wouldn't say nobody, I am picking up what the duck is puttin' down
Psilocyborg

climber
Feb 6, 2013 - 08:47pm PT
https://www.dmt-nexus.me/forum/

A place where subjective mind bending psychedelic spiritual journeys to other dimensions meets the scientific method.

BASE104

Social climber
An Oil Field
Feb 6, 2013 - 09:09pm PT
I watched this the other day. Quantum effects that are visible. And groovy.

I want to do that without freezing.

http://www.ted.com/talks/boaz_almog_levitates_a_superconductor.html
Dr. F.

Big Wall climber
SoCal
Topic Author's Reply - Feb 6, 2013 - 10:04pm PT
As Far as we know, there are no highers, nor anything above human intelligence in the entire universe
To say there is, is pure speculation

Jingy

climber
Somewhere out there
Feb 6, 2013 - 10:37pm PT
there are no highers, nor anything above human intelligence in the entire universe
To say there is, is pure speculation

 ah, yes.. therein lies the rub….

One only has to believe to know something beyond their own knowledge or experience….


so, yes… they speculate.
WBraun

climber
Feb 6, 2013 - 10:46pm PT
Jingy and the terrible scientist, both have reached the "Pinnacle of Stupidity" claiming they know the experience and knowledge of everyone else.

You better start setting up your rappel system back to the ground ....
moosedrool

Trad climber
lost, far away from Poland
Feb 6, 2013 - 10:48pm PT

As Far as we know, there are no highers, nor anything above human intelligence in the entire universe
To say there is, is pure speculation

Hmm, that would make us special. Like we used to believe the Earth was the center of the Univers, perhaps?
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