Politics, God and Religion vs. Science

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splitter

Trad climber
Cali Hodad, surfing the galactic plane
Oct 26, 2012 - 10:51am PT
Hey, Malmute asked a question and I was considerate enough to answer him (since no one else attempted to).

Are there rocks to climb?

There will be a whole Universe to explore, and we will have Eternity to do it in. So, my answer is yes, I suspect we will have plenty of "rocks to climb"!
Dr. F.

Ice climber
SoCal
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 26, 2012 - 10:54am PT
Splitter
I thank you for your post
I just haven't read the bible lately, and have forgotten about all the good stuff it says

And you believe every word. right?
Bruce Kay

Gym climber
BC
Oct 26, 2012 - 10:56am PT
just goofing around splitter! I googled great white throne and discovered it wasn't just a giant rock in Zion.

I also found out that Beckey and Rowell just got the FA of the big wall, not the summit. Also Batso and Bjornstad were supposed to be there on the wall as well but missed out. Some other guys got the summit FA back in the 20's.

That other great white throne stuff is some spooky sh#t. Perfect for Halloween.
Malemute

Ice climber
the ghost
Oct 26, 2012 - 11:26am PT
FWIW ... "Believers" are going to have/be given new resurection bodies, just like JC had. He also ate food. You obviously haven't studied/read the Bible at any length/depth. As a matter of fact, "believers" are going to return with JC and reign with Him here on earth for 1,000 years (The Millennium). And, as you may (or may not) have heard/read, if He doesn't intervene at Armageddon mankind will annihilate itself (made possible by a lil' scientific discovery involving nuclear fission/fusion). Some will survive Armageddon and repopulate much of the earth. Also, unbelievers will also be resurrected at that time for the Great White Throne judgement.
Thank you for your answer, splitter.

So the disembodied in heaven get new bodies on Earth? Cool.
And they get to climb? Even better!

Do they have the same memories? Personality?
Will climbers still have to worry about falling & breaking bones? Or will climbing be sanitized like gym climbing? Will there still be avalanches? Will climbers still run the risk of being killed?

These new bodies won't all be the same, will they? Cause if Joe likes finger cracks but Tom likes OW, they are going to want similar bodies to what they had. Do you get the same body as before? Are climbers still going to be competitive? What will happen to bolt wars?

Are these new bodies going to all be vegans? Cause that would be a personality change.
Who is going to kill the animals?

If Sam wants to live just outside a small town, who's going to drive the honey wagon?

Will there still be money? Are people going to have to work?

How will the new earth differ from what we got now?
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
-A race of corn eaters
Oct 26, 2012 - 11:39am PT
LOL!
Bruce Kay

Gym climber
BC
Oct 26, 2012 - 11:53am PT
hmmmmm.... sounds kinda boring. Maybe its nothing but harps and clouds after all.

Maybe Satan is onto something. You just need to be a bit of an as#@&%e while your here, which sucks, but what choice have you got faced with an eternity like that?
BLUEBLOCR

Social climber
joshua tree
Oct 26, 2012 - 12:12pm PT
And you believe every word. right?

Every word is right! Not one word has EVER been proved wrong!!!!

That's the key point.

To prove to a "materialist" that Jesus walked on water is futile. Even with eyewitnesses.

But can you prove He didn't?

Jus Ask'in
BB
Malemute

Ice climber
the ghost
Oct 26, 2012 - 12:26pm PT
What about Catholic priests?
They're going to repent just before the last rites.
Do they get a personality wipe? If not, how do they satisfy their urges on the new earth? Who will be their victims?
Bruce Kay

Gym climber
BC
Oct 26, 2012 - 12:31pm PT


Every word is right! Not one word has EVER been proved wrong!!!!

That's the key point.

To prove to a "materialist" that Jesus walked on water is futile. Even with eyewitnesses.

But can you prove He didn't?


BB, please please don't tell me you just said this in all seriousness. Be very careful with whoever handles your investments.
Largo

Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
Oct 26, 2012 - 12:32pm PT
No, they were not looking for a warm fuzzy feeling at CERN
Is that your understanding of how the CERN detectors work?
If so, your claim is disingenuous and juvenile
--


No, this is not my understanding of how "Cern Doctors" work, but apparently that is your understanding how spiritual adventures go. While you serious dudes are doing the heavy lifting with the facts and figures the rest of us pipe dreamers and bible thumpers are cocking around navel gazing and chasing warm fuzzy feelings for all of our existential terror.

The fact that yo believe this, for real, is hardly something to celebrate since, as I have said, the whole orchard is there for the taking.

JL



BLUEBLOCR

Social climber
joshua tree
Oct 26, 2012 - 12:55pm PT
I've never been more serious!

Jesus said"before the foundations of the world the Word was in me"
So it must be pretty important!

He also said that faith comes by hearing the word.
So it must be powerful!

I think if a creator of the universe and of the human body wanted a book about Himself, He would be able to orchestrate the words !

Jus Orchestrat'in
BB
splitter

Trad climber
Cali Hodad, surfing the galactic plane
Oct 26, 2012 - 12:58pm PT
Malemute, etal...

As you have already heard (the expression) many times, it's a relationship, not a religion. Religion, of course, has sprouted up all around the bible/scripture. But it is first and foremost a personal relationship, a spiritual relationship. For He is Spirit, and we are body, soul (personality, etc) & spirit (have a spiritual component within our soul where we unite with His Spirit/which is an empty vacuum longing for fulfillment without Him, [my words/description]. Spirit is not something you can describe to another person (imo) it has to be experienced. He (God/JC) will present Himself in a very powerful way. He has to many, and certainly has to me. Initially, it was an act of faith that brought Him into my life. He leaves NO doubt as to who He was/is at that initial encounter.

And, with some believers, He can do some very heavy (for lack of a better word) things throughout their lives, for whatever reason. Regardless, it is a dynamic and ongoing relationship for all believers.
Dr. F.

Ice climber
SoCal
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 26, 2012 - 01:04pm PT
What happens at CERN can be explained fully and fits the theory that they have developed

After 20,000 years, man hasn't been able to describe God, prove that they can talk to God, or to show that God even exists.

All their words and spiritual adventures can be described in simple terms about what really happened, (besides the thoughts that they experienced) "it was a warm fuzzy feeling" and nothing more.

Describe a meditation session for us?
Did you have a warm fuzzy feeling? what else?
what was your physical body feeling?
What changed after you were finished?
Nothing, right?



Malemute

Ice climber
the ghost
Oct 26, 2012 - 01:08pm PT
Is there sex in the heaven on earth?
What about a married couple on earth who wanted children but were unable to conceive? Can they have children in heaven? Where do the new souls come from? Do babies cry in heaven? Is there a lack of sleep in heaven?

Is there marriage in heaven? What about ugly people on earth who wanted to marry but couldn't find a partner?

Is there premarital sex in heaven? If you're going to spend eternity married to someone, shouldn't you make sure you're compatible? What if you get bored anyway after a billion years? Is there divorce in heaven? Or do you just stay bored & miserable? Is there adultery in heaven? Are there crimes of passion in heaven?

How will the new earth differ from what we got now?
Donald Thompson

Trad climber
Los Angeles,CA
Oct 26, 2012 - 01:09pm PT
What happens at CERN can be explained fully and fits the theory that they have developed

After 20,000 years, man hasn't been able to describe God, prove that they can talk to God, or to show that God even exists.

Nor can they prove a God doesn't exist.

Btw what in thee hell does the activities at CERN have to do with this discussion?
Dr. F.

Ice climber
SoCal
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 26, 2012 - 01:10pm PT
Ask Largo
Dr. F.

Ice climber
SoCal
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 26, 2012 - 01:29pm PT
OK, I used the wrong wording

But Ed, answer this
Do the detectors detect fuzzy feelings?

This whole discussion is about Largo dissing my post with this post of his

Isn't that what they were looking for with that atom smasher in Cern - a fuzzy feeling?
JL

Then Largo said I was wrong when I sad that CERN does not detect fuzzy feelings

What's the consensus?
jstan

climber
Oct 26, 2012 - 01:30pm PT
Nor can they prove a God doesn't exist.

Btw what in thee hell does the activities at CERN have to do with this discussion?

For something to be a discussion the participants must follow certain rules.

1, Not changing the subject
2. Arguing rationally
3. Answering points raised

Claiming that god exists but that the other guy has to prove the claim wrong is irrational. The person making a claim has to prove it. Not the other way around.

The statement of Donald's does not rise to the level of a discussion.
Donald Thompson

Trad climber
Los Angeles,CA
Oct 26, 2012 - 01:43pm PT
At present as of 2012, a particle has been detected but not yet tested fully to show if it is a Higgs boson.

I wanted to ask Ed if he thought the particle referred to would be confirmed as the Higgs boson ?
---------------------------------------------------------------------


The statement of Donald's does not rise to the level of a discussion.

Yep, but those statements are just 'chock' full of swa de vive

Claiming that god exists but that the other guy has to prove the claim wrong is irrational. The person making a claim has to prove it. Not the other way around.

I claimed that god exists?
Declaring the opposite , namely, that god does not exist is under the same logical requirements .
Does=does not.

--------------------------------------------------


I'm not trying to sound smarter than I really am on this advanced subject but I have another question for Ed


Why must the Higgs boson be confirmed in order to establish that a Higgs mechanism occurs by way of a Higgs field.?
Why can't the Higgs field be detected in other ways ?
Or is this a stupid question?
Probably a stupid question.


Largo

Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
Oct 26, 2012 - 02:40pm PT
After 20,000 years, man hasn't been able to describe God, prove that they can talk to God, or to show that God even exists.


It might help your understanding if you go back and look at the posts dealing with the different kinds of approaches needed to explore the experiential and the objective. Where you keep getting hung up Craig is A) believing that the experiential IS the objective, and B) since they are equals, or selfsame, the way we look at matter is the very same way we look at spiritual matters - in terms of measurements. When you declare that no such measurements or material stuff is geysering from the experiential camp, you have, by critera of your own making, declared all spiritual practices null and void and all practitioneers frauds and deluded montebanks since the beginning of time.

You need only backtrack to your belief that matter and experience are the very same things. Till you can tell the difference, you will never get past your own arguments, believing that they are ours to prove otherwise.

I would say that climbing, science and spiritual adventures are the same in one regards: they are not for everyone.

Ed just pointed out a very important dynamic IMO - that is, you keep boring into life and reality to see where you are wrong, and in the process you learn and become more conscious. It would seem to me, Craig, that you are boring into where you believe you are right, and where you believe others are wrong, and this doesn't strike me as being particularly scientific.

JL
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