Bobcat trapping in our wiilderness OT

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Messages 1 - 142 of total 142 in this topic
Levy

Big Wall climber
So Cal
Topic Author's Original Post - Dec 27, 2010 - 08:28pm PT
I ran into a Bobcat fur trapper Sunday up in the Walker Pass area of the Southern Sierras. I had seen one once last year who told me he had taken 14 Bobcats out of the area just in the last week. He told me there are a lot of Bobcats up in that area. I thought to myself, “Well there were a lot of Bobcats until you showed up.”

This time on Sunday, I parked my vehicle at the spot for a new crag I have been developing with some friends recently. It is next to a huge juniper bush some 30’ across. We put our packs on & started up the trail. My dog Maggie lagged behind and I called for her to no avail so I went back. She was investigating the scent of a cage trap on the back side of the huge juniper bush. She was halfway inside when I shooed her away.

One of my friends threw a rock on the traps trigger and set it off. We laughed that that trap was no longer a threat to Maggie or any other creatures in the area. Later that day from the crag far above, we see a pickup truck approach my vehicle. The driver gets out & circles my vehicle, cups his hands to see through the windows and circles some more. Then he goes to the back of the juniper tree & sees his trap sprung & empty.

Well let me tell you that a pissed off trapper is not someone to mess with. He followed our trail about ¼ of the way up to the crag but it was too far for him(30 minute hike from the car). He returned to his truck & looked with binoculars or a spotting scope & lurked for over 2 hours waiting for us to come back to the car. He left & we resumed climbing but he returned again and waited over an hour again down by the car.

When we returned we found a note that read: (all misspellings are per the note)

**“Your stuff was spared today by someone that is better than you!
Stay in the city where you belong!
Don’t interfer with someone who has a right to use the land as much as you do!
Go home!! The next time maybe not so lucky!!
Karma is a bitch, maybe you will fall from that rock!!”**

This seemed pretty threatening to my friends & I. Am I making too much of a deal over this? I checked the Calif Dept of Fish & Game regulations & Bobcat season begins November 24th thru January 31st. There is no limit to how many Bobcats may be taken by a single trapper. I saw a post on a hunters website that some trapper in Fallon Nevada took 300 bobcats last season legally. This kind of makes me sad.

Thoughts? Please discuss.
Mighty Hiker

climber
Vancouver, B.C.
Dec 27, 2010 - 08:42pm PT
Are there regulations as to where traps are permitted? Placing a trap close to a parking area or trail, or anywhere else frequented by humans or domestic animals, doesn't seem very smart, even if it's not illegal.
Spider Savage

Mountain climber
SoCal
Dec 27, 2010 - 08:42pm PT
Suggest springing all the traps you can, in a low key way.

It's painful but the land managers have a system. Should definitely let them know how you feel.

There is a bobcat in my neighborhood here on the edge of LA. It helps keep my gopher population in check. I prefer them alive and working.
Willoughby

Social climber
Truckee, CA
Dec 27, 2010 - 08:58pm PT
He'd better not mess with my bobcats. I need 'em to keep the vermin down. Plus I just like having them around. Here's a photo of one taken from the kitchen window, taking a little shelter from the sleet and snow, back on the 14th.

hb81

climber
Dec 27, 2010 - 09:03pm PT
Karma is a bitch, maybe you will fall from that rock!!”**

Yeah, karma is a bitch indeed, I hope he gets reborn as a rabbit in bobcat territory. What a d*ckhead.
John Moosie

climber
Beautiful California
Dec 27, 2010 - 09:04pm PT
You are lucky he didn't slice all of your tires. Happened to my friends vehicle. We came back from a two week backpack trip to find all of his tires sliced up. We had to hike another 16 miles before we ran into someone who gave us a ride. Otherwise we were 35 miles back in the back country. We never did find out what we did that pissed someone off.

Next time you spring traps, do it on the way out. That way you aren't hanging about when they get pissed off.

Talk to the game wardens. Find out why there is no limit.
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Full Silos of Iowa
Dec 27, 2010 - 09:21pm PT
Damn. If indeed there is a right to an unlimited quota on bobcat, then it exists because the populace has been ignorant of this. If an unlimited quota exists, it needs to be changed. Beginning yesterday. That's my value system.

.....

Oh, this vignette also illustrates the potential for conflict, danger, etc. out in the wilds. Another reason I often climb packing my Ruger .380 LCP, sometimes you just never know.
mike m

Trad climber
black hills
Dec 27, 2010 - 09:41pm PT

Bobcats could kill babies

High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Full Silos of Iowa
Dec 27, 2010 - 09:45pm PT
Crock, perhaps you read too much into a post.
Toker Villain

Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
Dec 27, 2010 - 09:45pm PT
Dingos more likely.
Toker Villain

Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
Dec 27, 2010 - 09:51pm PT
The trapper might think that Levy has a "purty mouth",...
Mighty Hiker

climber
Vancouver, B.C.
Dec 27, 2010 - 09:53pm PT
If there are so many excess bobcats (and wolves, and cougars, and grizzlies, and for all I know tigers) running around, how come I never get to see any? I demand a refund!
Chaz

Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
Dec 27, 2010 - 09:56pm PT
Whenever I see something man-made and unattended in The Wilderness, I pick it up and take it with me. Then I deposit it in the dumpster next to where I parked my truck.

If you value something, don't turn your back on it and leave it laying around on Public Land where I can get it.
nature

climber
Tuscon Again! India! India! Hawaii! LA?!?!
Dec 27, 2010 - 09:59pm PT
other than the fact that he (marginally) threatened you with his note, you were probably not in the right on this one.

if you don't like what he's allowed to do try and hit where it counts and get the F&G regs changed.

you can keep setting off his traps (is there a law against that?) and if he responds with violence, well, if you live, then he's in the wrong. but I wouldn't take the approach of instigation. Hayduke was a very very bad man ;-)



Edit: wow... Chaz... my mouth is wide open once again.
Chaz

Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
Dec 27, 2010 - 10:03pm PT
Perhaps the trapper should do a better job of concealing his traps.

Around here, if you want to see all kinds of wildlife - as well as NO people - just go a ridge or two over from The Trail.

That's where I'd trap, if I were looking to actually trap something.
Dick_Lugar

Trad climber
Indiana (the other Mideast)
Dec 27, 2010 - 10:08pm PT

My only advice is "Don't phuk w/rednecks who trap and/or hunt!"

Have you seen the movie "Deliverance" lately? If not, I suggest you do!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1tqxzWdKKu8
Ksolem

Trad climber
Monrovia, California
Dec 27, 2010 - 10:09pm PT
Wow Bill this is very dissapointing to hear about. As You know I've been climbing and exploring around that general area for decades. I have seen mountain lions and many bobcats in the wild around the Rincon area and over towards where you guys are climbing.

There have been some problems including an attack on a woman by a lion in the parking lot where Mtn 99 crosses the Kern a few years ago due to overpopulation of cougars vs habitat deprivation (not much habitat deprivation except by fire since it is NFS land.)

Trapping animals is commerce, not sport. It should be seen as such and managed appropriately. For a trapper to set a trap right by the road, at an obvious turnout, where your dog was lucky to survive, should be illegal. For the trapper to leave you threatening notes should bring him serious consequences. If you have the note you have the option of taking legal action through the district court in Lake Isabella.

I'll go up there with you next month. Is it more than 3000 yds from the crags to the car?

(juss' kiddin'...)

KS

Mtnmun

Trad climber
Top of the Mountain Mun
Dec 27, 2010 - 10:13pm PT
Dig a 10 ft pit near his trap. Camouflage it real good. Place a 6 pack of Coors on top of the trap. Trap that trapper.
Fritz

Trad climber
Choss Creek, ID
Dec 27, 2010 - 10:25pm PT
I don't endorse a culture that encourages trapping, and I really don't like trapping bobcats.

There are so few of them left in Idaho, that I have only seen two in the wild in my 61 years here.

However, trapping is another part of the ugly-side of western culture.

My "trapping wakeup" this week was arriving home from a day trip to find a pickup with kayaks in the front drive. When I walked in: I discovered a friend, from Boise and his buddy, who were hoping we could do something about two trapped raccoons.

They noticed the leg-hold trapped raccoons while running a Class IV stretch of a nearby stream, and had come to our place in hopes of a rescue. To complicate matters, the trapped raccoons were on the non-road side of a deep and fast stream. It was also getting dark.

Heidi was just finishing up on a call to Idaho Fish & Game, when I walked in. The person she talked to said trapping raccoons was legal, and there was nothing he could do, but he would make inquires and call us back soon.

I received details of where the raccoons were from my friend, and agreed to meet them there, after I heard back from Fish & Game.

A Fish & Game man soon called back, and attempted to tell Heidi that animals really didn’t feel pain like humans might, if they were live-trapped. Heidi politely told him he was full of BS, and asked if there was anything that Fish & Game could do to end the raccoons suffering.

After he mouthed more politi-speak: I asked to talk with him.

I introduced myself, and inquired if I was violating any laws if I shot the trapped raccoons. After he thought about it for a few seconds, he conceded that although I might be in violation: no-one in Idaho would prosecute me for shooting an animal in a leg-hold trap.

So I did.

Sorry, but that was the best end for the raccoons in their situation.
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
Dec 27, 2010 - 10:30pm PT
Trapping stinks but those bobcat furs make great masturbation pelts...rj
Toker Villain

Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
Dec 27, 2010 - 10:30pm PT
Trappers carry .22s for just that purpose, Fritz.
cts

Social climber
sw PA
Dec 27, 2010 - 10:37pm PT
Walking to a route at Endless in NRG we saw a dead pheasant hanging from a branch over a open leg hold trap. We sprung the trap and then smashed it on the scree, tossing the broken trap towards the river. Fifty more feet theres this unhappy dude with a shotgun. We did not make any friends with the locals that day, but we all have our convictions.
Fritz

Trad climber
Choss Creek, ID
Dec 27, 2010 - 10:50pm PT
Piton Ron: The unanswered question was: how long did the raccoons get to suffer before the trapper showed up? It might be several days.

Since I shot them, just before dark: the trapper wasn't checking traps that day.

I hope you also agree: trapped animals should not suffer, if you can do something about it.
corniss chopper

Mountain climber
san jose, ca
Dec 27, 2010 - 11:10pm PT
Years ago stopped to get some sleep near Walker pass. Full moon. Everyone's
zonked in their sleeping bags. I open an eye for some reason and see a bobcat
standing in the sagebrush 20' away. Left fast when I sat up.

Insight into the mind of trappers and their gear.
http://www.trapperman.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/1007924/Caught_a_trap_thief_LITERALLY.html#Post1007924
Vulcan

Sport climber
Dec 27, 2010 - 11:17pm PT
Toker Villain

Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
Dec 27, 2010 - 11:26pm PT
Most trappers I know run their lines at dawn.
johnboy

Trad climber
Can't get here from there
Dec 28, 2010 - 12:03am PT
Plain and simple, you broke the law by interfering with the lawful taking of game. Your lucky he didn't prosecute you. Yeah, go to the law with his note and see how that plays out. Traps are usually scented to attract the game they are trapping, so your dog came across it by smell.

If you want to be affective against this lawful activity then make sure he was indeed following all the laws in the taking of bobcat by traps. Some states have specific laws of how and where traps can be set and if they must be marked, also how frequently they must check them. If you aren't in agreement with the limits allowed, get involved.

I sure hope all the people that don't agree with our climbing don't take matters into their own hands. People that cut ropes, steal anchors or steal stuff left at the bottom of a routes are a dick. In this case, you were the dick to someone enjoying their pastime or possibly their way of making a living.

Thanks, things will be much safer for climbers in that area from now on.
D'oh

Edit: For the record, I'm not in favor of trapping either.
Tan Slacks

climber
Joshua Tree
Dec 28, 2010 - 12:16am PT
I'm not sure how I feel about trapping Bobcats. we have a several in our area that we have come to know. Their beautiful to watch and every now and then they manage to steal a chicken from my yard. I understand the argument of changing the existing laws if you don't like them, but in the meantime I would probably trip the traps as I find them and if someone finds it necessary to chop bolts.. so be it..I guess that's why I live in the wild west

graphic photo














Brokedownclimber

Trad climber
Douglas, WY
Dec 28, 2010 - 12:19am PT
I rather like bobcats, since they keep the damaging rodents down. On the other hand I hate raccoons 'cause they crap on my deck all the time. I still don't like trapping of any species bigger than rats.

I do have bobcats on the ranch, but haven't managed to photograph one yet.
klk

Trad climber
cali
Dec 28, 2010 - 12:23am PT
Bummer, dude. He knows yr rig now. When u go back, I'd have someone else drive.




I am skeptical that we have a bobcat overpop crisis in the southern Sierra. Willing to be persuaded, but skeptical.

U know it is the 21st century when rednecks invoke Kamra.
Jaybro

Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
Dec 28, 2010 - 12:56am PT
Spring the traps! or send Chaz in.

Hard to believe there are too many predators when we are overloaded with turkeys, rabbits and deer.
rwedgee

Ice climber
canyon country,CA
Dec 28, 2010 - 02:07am PT
Hunters use what we call a trail cam; a motion activated camera. They can sit for days until they are tripped. Video, audio, IR, you name it. Put one(or two) by your car & you will catch the perp in the act. NPS has them. They've been on major trailheads the last 2 years(that I've seen them).

Please don't confuse trapping with hunting. I hunt but would never trap, except lethal for rats or gophers and it's quick & painless.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z-xGv63GX-M

http://www.cuddeback.com/video_gallery/video_gallery.html

marv

Mountain climber
Bay Area
Dec 28, 2010 - 02:34am PT
anthropological inquiry: cousin-fukking is particularly associated with western culture?
hashbro

Trad climber
Mental Physics........
Dec 28, 2010 - 03:05am PT
Unfortunately Bill, Nevada has some of the most archaic "management" for predators like bobcats anywhere in the U.S.(outside of Alaska of course).

Leghold trapping (banned in California) is among the cruelest and most indiscriminate ways to torture, maim and kill wildlife, while removing the group of species, ecosystems are increasingly most in need of (the top predators).

Folks concerned about leg hold trapping should contact Nevada Department of Fish and Wildlife Commission and more importantly the incoming governor.

http://www.bigwildlife.org
meadow20

climber
Dec 28, 2010 - 01:47pm PT
In most places trapping unlimited bobcats is legal, but only because the rules are made by trappers and for trappers by an angency their license fees fund. It took the people of California to outlaw the more egregious and cruel leg-hold traps. The game agency would never have done it. And the deck is still very stacked against those with non-wildlife killing views.
There is no "management" in trapping. When pelt prices are low, it dries up. Trapping is market hunting that is completely profit driven. Carnivores do not overpopulate. They control their own numbers by defending territory and are also limited by their food supply. The prey controls the predators.
Yes, it's illegal to tamper with traps, but there is no justice in that given who makes the rules. Since the law is already broken by springing the trap, might as well go all the way and take it to where the sun doesn't shine. Traps cost money and trapping is all about that. (but yes, do it on the way out) When trappers break the rules, they just have to pay a small fine. That should be the worst that could happen to anyone else.
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Full Silos of Iowa
Dec 28, 2010 - 01:52pm PT
meadow20, I don't know you, but I liked your post.

.....

It's a new era. Time for commercial trappers to go the way of typewriters and kodachrome.
Tony Bird

climber
Northridge, CA
Dec 28, 2010 - 01:56pm PT
i think it's pretty simple. public land, open use. he can set traps legally. last i heard, it wasn't illegal to spring a trap, although this may vary from state to state. if it was his private land, it would be a different story. if you were concerned about the safety of pets or children, it seems like a legitimate concern. what do they use bobcat pelts for anyway? just curios at touron trading post-type stores?

um, if he got mad at you and blew your brains out, that would be illegal. :-D

otherwise, as in spy versus spy, it's karma versus karma. throw around all those easternfangled words you want. when you run out, you may have to join a monastery.
Jobee

Social climber
El Portal Ca.
Dec 28, 2010 - 03:07pm PT
I knew I should not open this thread; made me sad.

Sad for the reality that there is an imbalance in the wilderness,
Sad that the Bobcats that are trapped have to suffer until they are (hopefully) mercifully killed.
Sad that I might come across a trap one day and have to make a decision.
I was horrified to view the image of that beautiful creature (Bobcat) in a trap screaming in pain.

It's frightening to imagine a dog stumbling upon it, becoming trapped/injured if the traps are placed close to public area's.
It's unbelievable that 14 Bobcats were trapped/killed in one week, I heard that one man killed 300 in one year.
I do so hope the trappers are human enough to monitor their catch's frequently, and end the suffering of the innocent creatures they have captured.

I'm thrilled every time I am honored with the presence of a any wild animal in it's natural world.
I often cannot believe my eyes, and I become very happy!

In my book "An animal in distress is a sacred object."


Captain...or Skully

climber
leading the away team, but not in a red shirt!
Dec 28, 2010 - 03:16pm PT
Drop it, Crawley. Your bad advice will get somebody thrown in jail, & probably get their ass kicked.
Do NOT interfere with the legal taking of fur, fish or game unless you are willing to deal with the consequences of said action.
WBraun

climber
Dec 28, 2010 - 03:19pm PT
Who said it's legal all you ass-wipes.

The bobcat didn't sign up for it or have a say.

Dumbshit modern people .....
couchmaster

climber
pdx
Dec 28, 2010 - 03:24pm PT
Leg hold traps should be banned and allowed by special application only. They are needlessly cruel and totally unnecessary. Surprised anyone still let's them be used given that there are alternatives.

OK, next rant and a bit of a disconnect form my first sentence. State and Federal Gov't pay lots of scientists good money to extensively study and manage wildlife. Either let them do their jobs or fire them all and we'll decide what to do by elections. However, I can assure you that we'd be back to hiring out some experts in no time if you chose option #2. In many western states, Fish and Wildlife depts are a money maker, and the benefits of good management extend quite a bit out to many others.

PS, next time use a stick (under the jaw) or pick up the rock afterwards:-)
ryankelly

Trad climber
el portal
Dec 28, 2010 - 03:32pm PT
Who suffers if the bobcats are trapped?

Who suffers if they are not trapped?
hashbro

Trad climber
Mental Physics........
Dec 28, 2010 - 03:33pm PT
Bobcats (and all top predators) are ecologically incapable of "over-populating"...


top predators (like bobcats) have generally low birthrates, require relatively large areas of habitat, are extremely vulnerable to over-hunting, have relatively few natural predators, have birth rates that determined by food and habitat availability and most likely the single largest cause of death for this species (over the last century) is probably leg-hold trap, poison or gunshot...not old age or disease
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Dec 28, 2010 - 04:04pm PT
CALIFORNIA CODES
FISH AND GAME CODE
SECTION 4000-4012

4009. It is unlawful to remove or disturb the trap of any licensee
while the trap is being used by the licensee on public land or on
land where the licensee has permission to trap.
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Dec 28, 2010 - 04:08pm PT
Bobcats (and all top predators) are ecologically incapable of "over-populating"...

This is sadly not true. In Ca, we have a real problem going on, because a group fell in love with mountain lions, and managed to get a law passed giving them absolute immunity from management.

Their population has grown, and their range has extended.

They are now taking increasing numbers of bighorn sheep, which are severely threated, and in very limited numbers....but because of the special protections, cannot be protected from the lions. It appears they will be wiped out in the Sierra.

Very sad.
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Dec 28, 2010 - 04:13pm PT
sportsman

Did I actually just read the use of the term sportsman applied to a person trapping Bobcats? There were about 1800 Bobcats taken in Nevada last year by about 250 permits. Legal or not, that's 250 c#cksucking Neanderthals running around Nevada killing Bobcats purely for cash as there is no predation justification. Sportsmen? Right - in the same way via ferrata advocates are free climbers.
ryankelly

Trad climber
el portal
Dec 28, 2010 - 04:17pm PT
Ken,

I know for certain that mountain lions have been trapped and killed by folks in Napa County.
Ksolem

Trad climber
Monrovia, California
Dec 28, 2010 - 04:29pm PT
I did a little poking around on the subject of Bobcat and Mtn Lion populations. It appears that the Ca population of Mtn Lions is going up fast. In fact overpopulation / habitat deprivation were listed as the cause of an attack on a woman in a roadside praking lot along the Kern River several years ago. Apparently the male cat had been driven off it's territory by a stronger rival and was starving.

This is from Sequioa NP website:

Habitat: Mountain lions live in many different types of habitat in California, from deserts to humid coast range forest, and from sea level to 10,000-foot elevations. They generally will be most abundant in areas with plentiful deer.

Home Range: An adult male's home range often spans over 100 square miles. Females generally use smaller areas, about twenty to sixty square miles. Along the western slope of the Sierra Nevada, where competition for habitat is intense, as many as ten adult lions occupy the same 100 square mile area.

Population: In California, mountain lion populations have grown. In 1920, a rough estimate put the mountain lion population at 600. Since then, more accurate estimates, based on field studies of mountain lions, revealed a population of more than 2,000 mountain lions in the 70's. Today's population estimate ranges between 4,000-6,000.


As for the Bobcat, apparently there is little solid info regarding their population other than a general concensus that it is shrinking...

Apparently there is quite a market for their fur.

http://www.ssn.org/Meetings/cop/cop14/Factsheets/Bobcat_EN.pdf
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Full Silos of Iowa
Dec 28, 2010 - 04:30pm PT
Interesting.

re: depredation, de-predation

So do you pronounce that (1) dee pruh day shun or (2) dep ruh day shun? Hmm...

-Because there is already a word depredation. -the act of plundering, despoiling.
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Dec 28, 2010 - 04:40pm PT
And you see a predation problem there?
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Dec 28, 2010 - 04:49pm PT
Again, you see a predation problem in that picture?
bergbryce

Mountain climber
Oakland
Dec 28, 2010 - 04:55pm PT
There were many dogs getting caught in traps very close to trailheads and along heavily used trails around Anchorage when I lived there. One of them was a good friend of mines.
As I recall, public outcry (against trapping along heavily used corridors) was so strong that even in Alaska, where the game board is entirely resource extraction based, the policies had to be changed. If I recall correctly, trapping regulations were changed (relatively quickly too) to not allow set traps within a certain distance of trailheads and within another distance of trails.
This seems like it should go without saying, but if it's not in the regs, then someone is going to place traps wherever they please.

The actual point of this is that there was public input (and a lot of it) that caused this change to happen quickly. News spread mostly via the local paper and via personal contact and soon calls and letters started to happen.
Don't like the regulations? Get involved. Until then, better keep your dog on a leash or leave 'em at home.
Darryl Cramer

Social climber
Dec 28, 2010 - 05:31pm PT
40 years ago I trapped a bit in Ca. Used the old style long spring traps because that was all I could find near my house. They use to be sold in regular hardware stores in the Bay Area. I use to boil them in a big pot filled with oak bark Back then I think government regulations mandated that you check your line daily. Turned out that I would lie awake and night feeling stressing out about the possibility of an animal being caught in one of my traps, so I gave it up. Still have the couple of the pelts in my garage somewhere.

About twenty years later I get a call regarding a finance position with a somewhat secretive company. After talking to the recruiter on the phone I was asked if I had any problems working in the fur industry. Who knew Seattle is one of the fur capitals of the world? I said no and related my youthful attempts at trapping. Not sure if that mattered but I got the job and soon found myself in the fur industry. (ranch mink not wild ) Turns out that soon after the Berlin Wall fell a lot of the Russian government subsidies for their own domestic fur trade went away as well. As a result the North American fur industry recovered a bit. Right after the Russian market opened up the Chinese market did as well. I wonder what the demand is for Bobcat pelts in China? My guess is it’s primarily a trim item and the demand for trim fur can bring really impact pelt prices. I looked on the web quickly and it appears that Bobcat pelts can sell for several hundred dollars. (2006) It’s possible that the 300 pelt guy (btw 300 sounds like BS to me)could have brought in over $100,000 that year. I bet the current recession has brought about an increase in the numbers of trappers.
Ksolem

Trad climber
Monrovia, California
Dec 28, 2010 - 05:35pm PT
One bobcat sighting I will never forget...

It was 1984, I was sitting atop a boulder in the Anza Borrego wilderness. I sat there for a while without moving. I saw the bobcat traversing the desert about 100 feet away. I could see it easily when it moved. When it would stop I could still see it until I blinked, then It would be gone, invisible until the next time it moved. Amazing.

Another...

A few years ago Barbara and I moved into a house on the edge of the Angeles Nat Forest, on the slopes of the San Gabriel Mtns. The place was new to us, and I was not aware of the amount of wildlife right in our area. It was late on a hot summer eve, I had left a bunch of french doors from the living room to the porch open and left the room. When I walked back into the room there was a big old bobcat standing there. He looked me over, turned around, raised his tail to show me his opinion of me, and walked out slowly and deliberately.

I have seen several full grown Mtn Lions in the Kern Canyon area, including a very large cat up near The Needles. One cold winter night Guyzo and I heard a big cat take down a wailing deer right outside our campsite in the Kern Canyon. Lots of thrashing in the brush and wailing for a couple minutes.

I love seeing the big wild cats. They are amazing. I know where a female lion and two cubs were living near The Needles last summer. I heard them, and saw their sign numerous times but never saw them in the flesh. A Ponderosa local was able to photograph them!

healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Dec 28, 2010 - 05:41pm PT
...but to a big Mt. Lion no problem one a day or evry other day until they are gone.

That is not how Mountain Lions feed. When they take down a deer they attempt to cache the internal organs separate from the carcass and then feed on both until they are gone or spoiled. They are out of the hunting cycle until then.
Levy

Big Wall climber
So Cal
Topic Author's Reply - Dec 28, 2010 - 06:46pm PT
Here's a link to a website for trappers. The reference to the guy who took 300 bobcats near Fallon is 2/3 of the way down the page I've linked. The posters name is BigDog.

http://www.predatorwild.com/topic/8623-bobcat-fur-coats-raise-trapping-concerns-in-west/
Dameat

Boulder climber
Woodland Hills,CA
Dec 28, 2010 - 07:09pm PT
I'll go with you Solem...hehehe
couchmaster

climber
pdx
Dec 28, 2010 - 07:13pm PT
Most people have no clue what these damn animals are all doing when we are not watching.

Darryl Cramer

Social climber
Dec 28, 2010 - 07:24pm PT
Levy - I wasn't doubting it was printed; just thinking it was something of a fisherman's tale.

healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Dec 28, 2010 - 07:28pm PT
...nature will f*#k it up...

That's a good one, almost as funny and clueless as saying wolves aren't native to Oregon. You can claim these particular wolves aren't native to Oregon, but that's because all the Oregon wolves were exterminated. It's also almost as funny as saying Idaho F&G is objective, rational, or using science in any aspect of their involvement with wolves. Idaho's governor and F&G abandoned all pretense of objectivity on the subject quite some time ago.
nita

Social climber
chica from chico..waiting on spring days..
Dec 28, 2010 - 07:46pm PT
One winter in the Valley, it snowed heavily and trees were snapping like toothpicks. A large Oak tree crashed through my dorm room roof dropping snow, ice and water into my little space. The park service evacuated the valley and the C.Co. put us up at the Ahwahnee Hotel for a couple of nights..sweet.....Hardly any of my belongings were damaged, but i did get a new window and new carpet out of the deal...way-way cool.

The rest of that winter, the downed Oak became a regular hang out for a beautiful Bobcat and often, a visiting pigmy owl would be seen perching on one of the longest branches of the oak. I told several people about the wildlife outside my window, and my room became a popular wildlife viewing spot.

How do i feel about Bobcat trapping?..... I say this with complete honesty..

F*#king trappers suck!!








Ksolem

Trad climber
Monrovia, California
Dec 28, 2010 - 08:13pm PT
Actually I think Rox is onto something here.

I always wonder about the ruthlessness of "mother" nature. It's beautiful but we humans try very hard not to live by her harsh rules.
ontheedgeandscaredtodeath

Trad climber
San Francisco, Ca
Dec 28, 2010 - 08:17pm PT
I have no problem with hunting, guns, shooting, etc. But I've sprung every single trap I've ever come across. Please do the same.
Chaz

Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
Dec 28, 2010 - 08:19pm PT
F*#k the cat trappers.

Real MEN trap skunks.

Ksolem

Trad climber
Monrovia, California
Dec 28, 2010 - 08:20pm PT
skunks are feline too.
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Dec 28, 2010 - 08:53pm PT
...that makes humanity a potentially better steward.

Humans are all the world has left, and humanity is its greatest chance.

It would be hard to imagine two more perverse statements than these. Humans have demonstrated all the stewardship of a bacterial culture in a petri dish.

And a tip for you, the world doesn't require humans who have only existed for a heartbeat of the planet's history and the world will be fine when we're long gone. All of our ecological and environmental choices in the end are simply decisions about the lifestyle we want for our descendants.
Captain...or Skully

climber
leading the away team, but not in a red shirt!
Dec 28, 2010 - 08:58pm PT
But, Healyje, We INVENTED Nature, man. I saw it on the internet, so it must be true!

Got nothin' to do with trapping bobcats, Though. ;-)
Toker Villain

Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
Dec 28, 2010 - 09:03pm PT
Ksolem,
feline skunks?????


LOL
Mighty Hiker

climber
Vancouver, B.C.
Dec 28, 2010 - 09:08pm PT
If nothing else, those who object to indiscriminate hunting and trapping can learn the applicable laws and regulations (shouldn't be hard to find), and report any violations. For example, traps that are set in locations that aren't permitted, or aren't visited regularly.

Not forgetting that regulators may have limited resources, not historically have had a very active role, and in some cases are outright captive agencies of the hunting industry.

A second tactic, of course, is to contact political representatives at local, state and federal level and express your views as to whatever is happening, legal or otherwise. (About 50% of wildlife that is shot is shot illegally, in Canada anyway.) The hunting lobby is very vocal, and it's part of the democratic process to express your views, either that the law is wrong and should be changed, that there should be more enforcement, or otherwise. In case of egregious problems, the news media is another avenue.

Not everyone is a faux redneck yahoo like RJ, after all. And many do agree with responsible reintroduction of predators that belong in an area, even if it was extirpated by savages and ignoramuses.

The wildlife branch here once had stuffed deer, with reflective eyes that could be operated from a distance. They'd set it up on corners on rural and forestry roads, so that passing drivers at night would "see" a deer. A significant percentage would stop and shoot at it, usually from the vehicle. Eventually the operator would "close" the eyes, and the "hunters" would usually just lose interest. Not knowing that the police were waiting around the next corner, and would arrest them for hunting near a road, shooting from a vehicle, hunting at night (pit lamping), and usually also for drunk driving. Like shooting fish in a barrel, as a prosecutor I talked with described it.

That said, responsible wildlife groups do an enormous amount for conservation in Canada and the US - climbers are a long way behind.
Mighty Hiker

climber
Vancouver, B.C.
Dec 28, 2010 - 09:26pm PT
I never claimed or suggested that I'm a wildlife biologist. So there.
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
Dec 28, 2010 - 09:47pm PT
Rox...watching any NASCAR this weekend...? rj
Mighty Hiker

climber
Vancouver, B.C.
Dec 28, 2010 - 09:50pm PT
If you read Gulliver's Travels (Jonathan Swift), you'll learn all about the origins of yahoos.
Jaybro

Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
Dec 29, 2010 - 03:26pm PT
skunks are feline too
Only if you're Pepe Le Pew!

otherwise they are in the weasel fambly
Ksolem

Trad climber
Monrovia, California
Dec 29, 2010 - 03:42pm PT
Yeah I see that...

Some animal control guy here in town told me that skunks are feline and I took his word for it. He also told me how to get one out of the crawlspace under my house without getting sprayed.

At least he was right on the second part!

The alternative was that he would trap and "dispose" of the animal, which I really did not want to be involved with.

For a few weeks after I got him moved out and sealed off his access he would confront me outside around the house at night. Never sprayed me, although he did spray around the yard once.
Dadimo

Trad climber
Cushing, Oklahoma
Dec 29, 2010 - 04:11pm PT
I would hve to say that both of you handled this poorly. I am a climber as well as a hunter, trapper and hiker. The cage trap was no real threat to your dog, if she was of a size to fit in the trap, a bobcat would be much more of a threat to her than a cage trap.
I do not know the regs for trapping in your locale, but game and fish departments spend enormous amounts of time and resourses to try and balance the population of animals affected by human encroachment.
I'm sure he was upset about his trap being sprung, please leave them alone. He was undoubtably rude in his response to you. Just remember these traps can cost easily 75.00, and do get stolen. Also he should have set the trap at a greater distance from a parking area, or hiking trail. I would just to keep people and their pets from bothering it.
Just my two cents from being on both sides of this fence, it bothers me that neither of you seemed to have any respect for the others land use, or individual pursuit of happiness. A kind word and respect for each other, can bridge many gaps.
corniss chopper

Mountain climber
san jose, ca
Dec 29, 2010 - 04:45pm PT
Uh-oh. Here we go. The sport fishing people who practice catch and release.
Is this animal torture merely for the entertainment of the human doing it?

Imagine what it'd feel like to have a 'dentist' jump you as you hiked to the favorite crag, put a big hook through your jaw and drag your ass out into the sage; then abruptly remove the hook and disappear back into the bush

Question is would you just shrug and say 'Oh well. No real harm done. Sure wish he'd use Novocaine next time.
Chaz

Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
Dec 29, 2010 - 04:56pm PT
Catch & release skunk safari?




Think it'll catch on?

Toker Villain

Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
Dec 29, 2010 - 05:01pm PT
Back when I had chickens and a problem with a fox I set out a Havahart trap intending to relocate Mr. Problem.

One morning there was a skunk in there, something I hadn't even considered.


Boy did I look ridiculous hiding behind a giant garbage container as I rolled it up close and used 2 broomsticks with nails to spring the sickly looking little critter.

I think he knew the deal. No spray.

(Another time I got held up at a narrow section of approach by a skunk that refused to move on for a half hour despite fusillade.)
couchmaster

climber
pdx
Dec 29, 2010 - 05:15pm PT

1205 Snow Geese killed in 2-1/2 days. Be interesting to see how many these bubbas ate themselves. http://snowgoosemadness.com/
If they can get the Goose population down they won't have to go running around killing off the goose predators I suppose?
FRUMY

Trad climber
SHERMAN OAKS,CA
Dec 29, 2010 - 05:17pm PT
Times change the world moves forward you can't look back we must live now.
Shoot all trappers & hunters! Nothing personal its just that the world has changed. Time moves forward. LOL.
Levy

Big Wall climber
So Cal
Topic Author's Reply - Dec 29, 2010 - 05:29pm PT
Dadimo- If I had no respect for others use of the land, I would have smashed that stupid trap like an empty soda can. All my friend did was toss a stone onto the trigger mechanism which closed the trap.

How is that disrespectful? My dog is small enough to get caught inside & for all I knew, there might have been spikes or some severe action when triggered to harm the animal inside. We left the trap if fine condition even though it was less than 30 feet from the road. If I were hell-bent on removing the danger, I would have made the trap disappear for good, like some on this site have suggested.

Respect is a two way street.
Willoughby

Social climber
Truckee, CA
Dec 29, 2010 - 05:43pm PT
Per the Snow Geese, it's not just in the midwest that they're causing problems. The real problems are on their Arctic breeding grounds, where they're devastating the landscape, eating themselves out of food resources, and forcing the colonies to seek new locations.


There are so many Snow Geese now, that unlimited takes in many states can do nothing to reverse the population explosion. Hopefully we won't turn them into another Passenger Pigeon, but statistically-speaking, hunters can't even make a dent right now.
Captain...or Skully

climber
leading the away team, but not in a red shirt!
Dec 29, 2010 - 05:50pm PT
Willoughby beat me to it. Thanks, Ducks Unlimited, huh?
Willoughby

Social climber
Truckee, CA
Dec 29, 2010 - 05:58pm PT
The problem with too many Snow Geese, is that they feed by grubbing, pulling up plants by their roots. In this way, they wreak some serious havoc on the land. They're like winged wild boar, that have discovered agriculture, and nest in a very fragile environment.

"Snow geese are literally devouring the nesting areas in Canada that they share with many other species of wildlife," said Paul Schmidt, chief of the Service's Migratory Bird Management Office. "What once were thriving tundra ecosystems with diverse plant and animal life are fast becoming denuded wastelands. At lower populations, the tundra can be maintained, but at these levels, an important ecosystem is damaged. We need to take action soon to reduce the populations or face the possibility of irreparable harm to the ecosystem." - from a 1998 USFWS release

1982 the Mid-continent breeding population was 1.7 million
The winter count crossed the two million mark in 1991
The 1995 estimate was 2.7 million
1998 - 4 million
Nowadays, somewhere in the range of 5-7 million


Wait, weren't we talking about bobcats?
Ksolem

Trad climber
Monrovia, California
Dec 29, 2010 - 06:00pm PT
Times change the world moves forward you can't look back we must live now.
Shoot all trappers & hunters! Nothing personal its just that the world has changed. Time moves forward. LOL.

Actually Frumy, hunters and the organizations they support and the fees they pay contribute a great deal to conservation and public lands. I saw this first hand as a kid raised by an avid hunter who to this day makes contributions to Nature Conservancy and Ducks Unlimited.

The hunters I know are among the best informed people on the issues surrounding wildlife and conservation. If you were to have your way then you would have to institutionalise the killing of many animals (such as deer in the southern sierra.) So would you rather have government workers paid tax $ to cull populations or have hunting seasons where citizens pay fees for the priviledge?

Captain...or Skully

climber
leading the away team, but not in a red shirt!
Dec 29, 2010 - 06:04pm PT
Well, couldn't we have the bobcats eat the geese?
Toker Villain

Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
Dec 29, 2010 - 06:16pm PT
I dunno,..


You say this guide was very knowledgeable Silver?

A phillips head?

I've always found that a standard screwdriver is easier to lick clean.
corniss chopper

Mountain climber
san jose, ca
Dec 29, 2010 - 06:45pm PT
..ain't diversity of lifestyles great!

The murmur of 10,000 feeding snow geese echoed across my 2,000 acre corn field. Our hunting trio sat in the pickup truck along the highway plotting an approach to the mass of heinous white birds 400 yards away...

http://www.basspro.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/CFPage?storeId=10151&catalogId=10001&langId=-1&mode=article&objectID=33486


Chaz

Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
Dec 29, 2010 - 07:06pm PT

corniss chopper

Mountain climber
san jose, ca
Dec 29, 2010 - 07:12pm PT
Heinous snow geese are a plague - destroying vast areas of arctic tundra.

http://www.wildfowlmag.com/conservation/goose_0930/

Habitat deterioration is well advanced along the western shore of Hudson's
Bay. Six years ago, biologists estimated that 35 percent of the salt marshes
in the Hudson's Bay lowlands had been destroyed, 30 percent was damaged,
and 35 percent was overgrazed. The loss of the habitat affects other geese,
ducks and shorebirds as well as the snow geese themselves.

Save the environment, buy a shotgun?
johnboy

Trad climber
Can't get here from there
Dec 29, 2010 - 07:16pm PT
Anyone got a pic of Cheney shooting his buddy?


Robb

Social climber
The other "Magic City on the Plains"
Dec 29, 2010 - 07:17pm PT
If you're going to do that why don't you come on over to NoCo and pop some of the 1,000 or so Canadian geese who are at the lake. The've managed to poop allover about 200+ yards of my cycling trail!!!
johnboy

Trad climber
Can't get here from there
Dec 29, 2010 - 07:20pm PT

Respect is a two way street.

Like you showed him??

Just saying.
Ksolem

Trad climber
Monrovia, California
Dec 29, 2010 - 07:25pm PT
Anyone got a pic of Cheney shooting his buddy?

I think the photographers were smart enough to keep their distance.

It's a good thing Cheney was shooting a "girls" gun. If he had been using my 12ga mag it would have been a closed casket affair...
Ksolem

Trad climber
Monrovia, California
Dec 29, 2010 - 07:32pm PT
Can anyone explain the sudden population increase of these geese? Just curious...
FRUMY

Trad climber
SHERMAN OAKS,CA
Dec 29, 2010 - 07:56pm PT
Kris it was a joke
THEY CAN TAKE THIER FEES & STUFF IT. THIER IS NO SPORT IN KILLING.
I have no problem with hunting for food.
what population increases. their numbers are off of there historic highs by millions.
Ksolem

Trad climber
Monrovia, California
Dec 29, 2010 - 08:00pm PT
Kris it was a joke

Sorry that. I took you literally.
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Dec 29, 2010 - 08:27pm PT
I think Rokjox is being BRUTALLY honest when he discusses the state of the Earth.

I think he is being brutally ignorant in what he takes away from the state of the Earth. And again, the Earth is always in balance and couldn't give a wit about the current state of expression of the global DNA pool. How that pool is expressed now and in the future pretty much only matters to us and is more a lifestyle choice.

You can't really hurt the planet so long as the Sun shines, the core generates heat, and a reservoir of DNA exists somewhere.
Chaz

Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
Dec 29, 2010 - 09:29pm PT
What did you kill, Crowley?

Tell us about it.
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Dec 29, 2010 - 09:45pm PT
Helped establish the National Marine Sanctuary in Hawaii, does that count?
Captain...or Skully

climber
leading the away team, but not in a red shirt!
Dec 29, 2010 - 10:15pm PT
The thing about the Earth is that ("problem" solved) is static.
Life is anything but............In the meantime, I made some enchiladas.....Want a couple?
They're pretty tasty.
Robb

Social climber
The other "Magic City on the Plains"
Dec 29, 2010 - 10:34pm PT
"Quail is the best eating bird of all."

Well, maybe, but I'd say ring necked pheasant
Robb

Social climber
The other "Magic City on the Plains"
Dec 29, 2010 - 10:50pm PT
Pity,truely
I cut my teeth on pheasant on Thanksgiving in Chico BITD.
-almost makes me see where RJ is coming from on cali........
Captain...or Skully

climber
leading the away team, but not in a red shirt!
Dec 29, 2010 - 10:55pm PT
Pheasants don't belong in America. Kill 'em ALL.
Chinese imports. Farmland birds. Meh.
Prezwoodz

climber
Anchorage
Dec 29, 2010 - 11:01pm PT
I think predator competition is blown out of proportion. From the areas I have seen that though so prevalent it just comes from a bunch of misinformed hunters who love to kill things. Even if you told them there wasn't that many left they would still do it citing that they have the "right". Its weird how they have the right to kill something but you don't have any right whatsoever to save it from that person trying to kill it.
Captain...or Skully

climber
leading the away team, but not in a red shirt!
Dec 29, 2010 - 11:07pm PT
We've been killin' things for a vast amount of our time on our little Orb.
We've been tryin' to "manage" Life on our little Orb a tiny fraction of that time. Think Inertia.
Apply it. Good luck. Seriously.
Robb

Social climber
The other "Magic City on the Plains"
Dec 30, 2010 - 12:55am PT
The Graduate...Top Flight...the others escape me now....



CCC!!!
Chaz

Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
Dec 30, 2010 - 01:43am PT
I see pheasants all the time in the orange groves.

They'd be real easy to kill because they always fly a straight line between the rows of orange trees.
I'll bet I could get one with a .22.
Brokedownclimber

Trad climber
Douglas, WY
Dec 30, 2010 - 02:20am PT
An earlier comment about ringneck pheasants in South Dakota caught my eye. I was passing through Mitchell, S.D. about 6-7 weeks ago at the height of the pheasant season. Had trouble finding a hotel room; all the restaurants had long waits; the merchants were gleeful (Cabela's, especially). I sat in the breakfast room of my hotel the next morning and chatted up several of the hunters to learn about pheasant hunting in S.D. It isn't really what I'd call hunting "wild game," since almost 100% of the birds are raised by the farmer/ranchers in pens and released into the cornfields in late summer before harvesting begins (and that's after pheasant season!). The hunters buy coupons for the number of birds they intend to "harvest,"in addition to a basic access fee of ~$150. Something like $25/bird. Most hunters opt for a 3 bird daily bag limit, so the farmer/rancher pockets $225 per hunter, since few guys stay for more than just a couple days and don't usually get their full limit the first day. So...instead of "hunting," I'd call it "agribusiness."

As a sidebar, the airport in Mitchell has a strict landing schedule for private planes flying in for pheasant season!

I have nothing against hunting for sport and for meat, but I dislike trapping strictly on humane grounds. I have almost been tempted into trapping raccoons by my wife, whose machine shop has been ransacked by raccoons who occasionally manage to somehow get in the building, and then shat on the ways of her $18,000 lathe, shat on the table of her milling machine, and shat everywhere else, too. I derived much more satisfaction from blowing the little phuckers off my deck with a shotgun--after stepping in what they shat right by the door.
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Dec 30, 2010 - 02:27am PT
why would anybody be trapping bob cat's?

i was a bit worried reading about Maggie.

glad she is okay.

happy new year!

Toker Villain

Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
Dec 30, 2010 - 02:53am PT
LOL

Roger, those little fockers with the bandit masks have stung me too.

Hope it didn't mess up yer deck much.
Mighty Hiker

climber
Vancouver, B.C.
Dec 30, 2010 - 02:57am PT
As a sidebar, the airport in Mitchell has a strict landing schedule for private planes flying in for pheasant season!
Why, do the hunters shoot at them?
Jan

Mountain climber
Okinawa, Japan
Dec 30, 2010 - 05:40am PT
About raccoons and decks.

My mother in Çolorado swears that if you put talcum powder all around the edge, especially if you can find some that contains zinc, then all they have to do is get it on their paws once and spend forever licking the bad taste off and they never come back again ??
Brokedownclimber

Trad climber
Douglas, WY
Dec 30, 2010 - 10:29am PT
Anders-

Sheer numbers and it's a non-tower controlled airfield. Ya gotta' make a specific time-to-land reservation to hold down traffic in the landing pattern! They have literally hundreds of planes a day landing at a field that doesn't normally see 20 flights a day.

Jan-

The "taste of lead" seems to be more lasting! I bury the remains.
Jan

Mountain climber
Okinawa, Japan
Dec 30, 2010 - 10:36am PT
Rodger-

It's a little hard to shoot animals within the confines of a standard city lot!
Brokedownclimber

Trad climber
Douglas, WY
Dec 30, 2010 - 11:04am PT
Jan-

True in most cases. A supressed .22 Ruger using .22 shorts makes almost NO sound. ;)
MN_SlowTrad

Trad climber
MN
Dec 30, 2010 - 11:55am PT
You were very lucky that it was a live trap and not a conibear or snare or you would have been going home with an injured or dead dog.

I live in a state where trapping is quite common (MN). Mostly Muskrats and beaver, but some fox/coyote/coon/mink/marten/otter. You would never have seen an expert trappers set, they usually are out of sight. Western Spotted Bobcat is going for $300 for a good pelt, so some less than expert trappers are probably getting into it.

I hunt, and I always bring a multi-tool along in case my dog gets caught in a snare. Also, it would be a good idea to familiarize yourself with how to get an animal out of a conibear trap, it could save your dog. Larger conibears require skill to release pressure. http://www.terrierman.com/traprelease.htm

Unless you are good at this, your dog will die in your arms.
FRUMY

Trad climber
SHERMAN OAKS,CA
Dec 30, 2010 - 12:11pm PT
its a little hard putting a 30-06 round in a 22. even a ruger.
Ksolem

Trad climber
Monrovia, California
Dec 30, 2010 - 12:41pm PT
On the subject of shooting flying birds with a rifle, I suggest reading "Greatheart, A Labrador Adventure."

All but one member of an early 20th century expedition to cross the wilds of Labrador died of starvation. They had rifles to hunt deer and caribou but they found none. There were birds everywhere but they could not hit them.

Oh, it's a great book too.

http://www.amazon.com/Great-Heart-Labrador-Adventure
Levy

Big Wall climber
So Cal
Topic Author's Reply - Feb 20, 2013 - 02:37pm PT
Bobcat bump.

Seriously, why is trapping & killing these gorgeous creatures legal anyway?
weezy

climber
Feb 20, 2013 - 02:42pm PT
every trap i find goes in the garbage. f*#k trappers...f*#king mouthbreather hicks.
Srbphoto

climber
Kennewick wa
Feb 20, 2013 - 02:43pm PT
Was it legal for your dog to be off leash and out of voice control?
couchmaster

climber
pdx
Feb 20, 2013 - 03:03pm PT
Why do people who type at keyboards and pay fish and wildlife biologists big money to make these decisions as informed and as scientific as possible, turn right around and countermand the work they hired them to do?

I don't understand the knee jerking and total lack of hubris which that must entail. (ie, I'M SMARTER THAN YOU ARE DESPITE THE FACT THAT YOU AND YOUR WHOLE F*#KING DEPARTMENT HAVE STUDIED AND WORKED ALL YOUR LIFE IN THE FISH AND WILDLIFE FIELD AND MAY BE DOING OR READING CURRENT RESEARCH BUT I DON'T GIVE A F*#K WHAT KIND OF A SCIENTIST YOU ARE OR WHAT YOU'VE STUDIED: I SAW A PHOTO OF A BOBCAT AND I'M CLEARLY SMARTER THAN YOU BECAUSE OF IT) That is directed to all of the folks responding to the Coz "save the bobcats" thread. Maybe one of those folks can take a shot at explaining it to me.

The interesting part is that Californians have been doing a version of this for years, tieing up resources of all kinds for these "GREAT CAUSES" and then get all butt hurt and confused at the lack of money left over and the lack of discretionary budgeting that their legislature can do. Has anyone, I mean , anyone, who has signed the "PLEASE DON'T KILL THE PRETTY BOBCAT" petition asked anyone, and I mean anyone, including the blond receptionist at the tire company next door to the Fish and Wildlife agency for an explanation? I could take a shot, but why bother.


Nevermind, sign the petition, carry on with the pitchforks and torches and burn the castle down and figure out right and wrong later.



It's only money after all, and California citizens are clearly too rich to even bother with learning the facts first. You could at least fire all those folks and make it easier on yourselves. Then you can continue to vote on all Fish and Wildlife related things, when hunting season starts and stops, what gets harvested and when, in critters to introduce and how to buy from Chinese farms - that kind of stuff. Probably go like this: "Man, I'd like to eat some crab, lets do a voter petition to open up Crab Season again"....see how that new process will go? No need for experts at all - just put it out to the great unwashed masses for a vote. "Opps, we forgot to close the season? Crabs wiped out? Sh#t, hate that when it occurs and it keeps happening."

Carry on.
Levy

Big Wall climber
So Cal
Topic Author's Reply - Feb 20, 2013 - 04:37pm PT
SRB- hoto,

Yes it was legal for the dog to be off leash. The area in question is BLM managed. Do you have a valid point or just stiring the pot?
ionlyski

Trad climber
Kalispell, Montana
Feb 20, 2013 - 05:29pm PT
I've heard, the thing to do, if you want to mess with trappers, is to piss on the traps. That's all. Think about it.

Arne
limpingcrab

Trad climber
the middle of CA
Feb 20, 2013 - 06:30pm PT
Well couchmaster said it in a different tone, but overpopulated=bad and underpopulated=bad.
coastal_climber

Trad climber
Squamish, BC
Feb 20, 2013 - 07:23pm PT
So if I trap and climb what does that make me
Srbphoto

climber
Kennewick wa
Feb 20, 2013 - 09:31pm PT
Just curious. I actually track that.

thanks
OR

Trad climber
Feb 20, 2013 - 09:41pm PT
Trapping bobcats? Awful
Chaz

Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
Feb 20, 2013 - 09:51pm PT
Too bad there's no money in skunk pelts.


Those trappers would have a f*#king field day in my yard.
couchmaster

climber
pdx
Feb 21, 2013 - 09:44am PT
Who ya gonna call when the goldfish come for ya? Take a vote that they vacate the lake?
Gary

Social climber
Right outside of Delacroix
Mar 5, 2013 - 11:09am PT
http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-trapping-ban-20130305,0,3887269.story

Environmental groups and wildlife lovers near Joshua Tree National Park on Monday applauded a proposed state law that would ban trapping of bobcats for commercial purposes.

Assemblyman Richard Bloom (D-Santa Monica) introduced AB 1213 in response to the fury of thousands of people angered by the recent discovery of bobcat traps set along the boundaries of the national park. They responded with petition drives, social media campaigns and telephone calls to lawmakers.

"Assemblyman Bloom's bill is a critical step in bringing California's antiquated wildlife laws into the 21st century," said Brendan Cummings, director of the Center for Biological Diversity's wildlands programs and a resident of the community of Joshua Tree. "Right now, it's legal for trappers to line the boundary of a national park with traps, kill the park's wildlife and ship their pelts overseas."
rincon

climber
Coarsegold
Nov 21, 2015 - 07:27am PT
It's Official: Bobcat Trapping Banned in California

http://www.kcet.org/news/redefine/rewild/commentary/bobcat-trapping-ban-finally-official.html
kunlun_shan

Mountain climber
SF, CA
Nov 21, 2015 - 09:11am PT
You have people in the LA basin and SF bay area who have never seen a mountain lion, bobcat........Most of them don't even live anywhere near the habitat of these animals.

There are bobcat all over the Bay area! Don't talk so loudly next time you are in the Marin Headlands and you might see some.

This summer there was even a mountain lion spotted in the Presidio, and at Gough and Eddy in downtown SF!

edit - plus coyotes and fox in Golden Gate Park.
10b4me

Mountain climber
Retired Climber
Nov 21, 2015 - 09:20am PT


You have people in the LA basin and SF bay area who have never seen a mountain lion, bobcat, or whatever else is on the list to "save", voting to ban their harvest. Most of them don't even live anywhere near the habitat of these animals. None of them have a clue other than the "feel good" nature of a "cause". Yet they hold the voting power in this state. Not sure of the legal path the bobcat ban took but the mountain lion ban was a statewide proposition.

Moron

I'm praying for you, Jody.
Wade Icey

Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
Nov 21, 2015 - 09:21am PT
jody you're probably trolling but I'm curious why you would want to kill bobcats or mountain lions? Manifest destiny? Cattle rancher? protecting buffy? or just plain macho fun?
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Shetville , North of Los Angeles
Nov 21, 2015 - 09:23am PT
Raising the minimum wage would encourage trappers to turn their traps into plow shares and seek employment at a fast food establishment...
kunlun_shan

Mountain climber
SF, CA
Nov 21, 2015 - 09:26am PT
Jody talks so loudly when he's outdoors that he's never seen any wildlife ;-)
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Nov 21, 2015 - 09:28am PT
One wonders why a person would be intent on killing God's creations?

Obviously, God didn't know what he was doing when he created SO MANY of these creatures!

Apparently, those who live in cities and don't encounter these animals are somehow lesser humans. I read that in the Bible, somewhere. They have no right to contribute to protecting God's creatures.

Why would someone think they have the right to tread on other's religious beliefs about protecting God's creations?
hashbro

Trad climber
Mental Physics........
Nov 21, 2015 - 10:03am PT
http://www.sacbee.com/news/politics-government/capitol-alert/article30187980.html


Commission approves statewide bobcat trapping ban

California Fish and Game Commission adopts ban over objections of lawmakers

Animal rights groups launched campaign to ‘Ban the Trap’

Trappers consider options to challenge ban before fall trapping season
The California Fish and Game Commission voted Wednesday to ban bobcat trapping statewide. The California Fish and Game Commission voted Wednesday to ban bobcat trapping. The ban does not affect bobcat hunting. About 1,300 were trapped in 2011-12. The California Fish and Game Commission voted Wednesday to ban bobcat trapping statewide. The California Fish and Game Commission voted Wednesday to ban bobcat trapping. The ban does not affect bobcat hunting. About 1,300 were trapped in 2011-12.
1 of 2
The California Fish and Game Commission voted Wednesday to ban bobcat trapping. The ban does not affect bobcat hunting. About 1,300 were trapped in 2011-12. Dennis Magee (Peoria, Ill.) Herald & Review
BY ALEXEI KOSEFF
akoseff@sacbee.com
The California Fish and Game Commission voted Wednesday to implement a statewide ban on bobcat trapping, overriding objections from lawmakers who said it defied the intent of more narrowly crafted prohibitions passed by the Legislature.

The 3-2 vote followed hours of public comment from animal rights advocates, who crowded the meeting in Fortuna on the North Coast, and trappers, who said the ban could destroy their livelihoods.

California Department of Fish and Wildlife spokeswoman Jordan Traverso said the commission faced a difficult decision, but was ultimately swayed by the “sheer number of comments from tens of thousands of Californians who were in favor of the ban.”

“Some of the commissioners were compelled by the fact that the license fee for trappers does not cover the cost for our department running the program,” she added.

The Legislature tasked the Fish and Game Commission in 2013 with developing buffer zones around national parks, state parks and other wildlife areas in California where bobcat trapping would be prohibited.

The bill’s author, Assemblyman Richard Bloom, argued that a sharp rise in the international trade of bobcat pelts had put the animals at risk. Though he originally pushed for an outright ban on trapping, the Santa Monica Democrat ran up against opposition from the fur industry, as well as farmers, who favor trapping to protect their herds and crops.

Lawmakers compromised with the zonal approach, to reinforce protections in areas where bobcat trapping was already prohibited. In his signing message, Gov. Jerry Brown instructed his administration to conduct a population survey, which the commission could use to “consider setting population thresholds and bobcat trapping tag limitations in its upcoming rule making.”

But as the Fish and Game Commission began work on the regulations earlier this year, animal rights groups launched an expansive campaign to “Ban the Trap,” including billboard ads urging statewide restrictions.

Bloom joined them to speak in favor of the ban at Wednesday’s meeting. He tweeted his excitement following the decision: “I am elated that the CA Fish & Game Commish has just voted to ban bobcat trapping in #California as a result of my legislation.”

Bobcats are not an endangered species, and trapping, which has been legal in California for more than a century, is well below its peak decades ago. In the 2011-12 hunting season, an estimated 1,299 bobcats were killed by trapping, compared with a high of more than 20,000 annually in the past.

Opponents voiced concerns that the state would consider an outright ban on trapping despite a lack of compelling scientific evidence. Assemblyman Adam Gray, D-Merced, attended a meeting in June to argue that the commission was stepping well beyond its duty to implement the spirit of the law. In July, 23 Republicans lawmakers sent a letter to the commission urging it to come up with a new plan.

The commission responded to the criticisms by pointing to bill language allowing it to “impose additional requirements, restrictions, or prohibitions related to the taking of bobcats.”

Traverso said the Department of Fish and Wildlife anticipates the ban will be in place before the start of trapping season in November. It does not affect bobcat hunting.

The California Trappers Association is reviewing its options to challenge the regulation, either through the courts or an appeal to the Legislature or the governor.

“The California Fish & Game Commission rejected the Governor’s appeal for science and more information in order to make an educated decision on this issue,” spokesman Hector Barajas said in a statement. “They have become the political arm of the animal rights extremists.”

Read more here: http://www.sacbee.com/news/politics-government/capitol-alert/article30187980.html#storylink=cpy
SC seagoat

Trad climber
Santa Cruz, Moab, A sailboat, or some time zone
Nov 21, 2015 - 10:14am PT
OPOSSUM, STRIPED SKUNKS and WEASELS: No closed season, except Sundays. No limits.
BOBCAT (WMUs 2A, 2C, 2E, 2F, 2G, 2H, 3A, 3B, 3C, 3D, 4A, 4C, 4D and 4E): Jan. 16-Feb. 9. One bobcat per license year. Licensed furtakers may obtain one permit each.

In Pa if you're a skunk, weasel or 'possom you worship on Sundays.
Did some trapping with my dad and brothers when I was young. It's hard to believe that we didn't think it was barbaric. My deceased Father's house has an over abundance of displayed game. But when you grow up in a hunting culture that's just the way it is.

In his 80s he did abandon hunting because he said all the city yahoos were coming up and shooting anything that moved. Then when they saw what they shot if it wasn't big enough they wouldn't tag it and move on to a bigger kill.

I do wish I had a wild turkey for Thanksgiving though.

Susan
Ricky D

Trad climber
Sierra Westside
Nov 21, 2015 - 07:58pm PT
State Wide Ban on Pelt trapping of Native Bobcats
updated: Nov 21, 2015, 6:30 PM

By Julia Di Sieno, Animal Rescue Team, Inc

Thanks to your three years of help, on August 5, 2015 the California Fish and Game Commission voted 3-2 in favor of adopting a statewide ban on the pelt trapping of bobcats. But a few procedural steps remained before the ban could officially take effect, and paperwork delays very nearly resulted in yet another year of trapping. Ban supporters were doing some white knuckling as the 2015/16 bobcat trapping season, originally scheduled to open on November 24, 2015 was fast approaching. Happily, the final hurdle was overcome last Friday when the Office of Administrative Law approved the ban with enough time for the prohibitions to go into effect on November 20, 2015.
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