New rope technology - pretty convincing.

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Messages 1 - 35 of total 35 in this topic

jsj

climber

Boulder

Topic Author's Original Post - Dec 10, 2010 - 12:06pm PT

Apparently the core is bonded to the sheath which is what makes the difference.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rizo2GbfV_4

Prod

Trad climber

Dec 10, 2010 - 12:16pm PT

Hey Jim E...

What do you think about this?

Prod.

Jaybro

Social climber

Wolf City, Wyoming

Dec 10, 2010 - 12:24pm PT

What does this do for the chinese finger trap aspect of how ropes work?

Danholio

Trad climber

San Francisco, CA

Dec 10, 2010 - 01:19pm PT

I guess your back-up knot would catch you if the sheath ripped while jugging. I guess it could happen but in practice, it's never happend to me nor have I heard of this happening. Anyone out there heard of this happening?

http://www.beal-planet.com/sport/anglais/unicore.php

Jaybro

Social climber

Wolf City, Wyoming

Dec 10, 2010 - 01:40pm PT

That guy juggin on the trip?

Bad Acronym

climber

Little Death Hollow

Dec 10, 2010 - 01:54pm PT

Looks like the intended usage is indoor or canyoneering/caving.

Edit:
But they do mention toproping and lead belaying advantages on the website...?

bergbryce

Mountain climber

Oakland

Dec 10, 2010 - 02:16pm PT

That's pretty interesting, thanks for posting.
Wondering when the good 'ol boys will chime in with the obligatory anti-French crap?

Prod

Trad climber

Dec 10, 2010 - 02:40pm PT

It looks like the sheath failure in the first few tests led to total failure. Am I mistaken?

I would like to see some dynamic testing comparing this rope vs comparable normal rope weighted acorss a cutting edge.

Prod.

jsj

climber

Boulder

Topic Author's Reply - Dec 10, 2010 - 04:35pm PT

It's hard to tell if the weighted ascender just pulls the sheath off the ends of the test sample during the failure, or if somehow the core is breaking too...

If it's just the sheath pulling off then this only seems like it would be relevant for those who jug (over edges) frequently (or use mini traxions or other sheath grabbing devices).

But if there's actually total failure being prevented by this new technology, then it seems like all climbing (especially lead) applications would benefit.

nutjob

Trad climber

Berkeley, CA

Dec 10, 2010 - 04:41pm PT

After watching the video I understand the comments of those who say "who jugs up near the end of an untied rope?"

Looks like the biggest benefit would be to stop gym ropes from getting all stiff and funky at the ends from sheath shifting.

bergbryce

Mountain climber

Oakland

Dec 10, 2010 - 04:47pm PT

It looks like the sheath failure in the first few tests led to total failure. Am I mistaken?

I'm under the impression the sheath failure led to core (total) failure too. I think that's why they moved the camera out to the side angle.

Prod

Trad climber

Dec 10, 2010 - 04:47pm PT

After watching the video I understand the comments of those who say "who jugs up near the end of an untied rope?"

Maybe I'm dim... (Ok I am), but I still do not get this at all.

Prod.

murcy

climber

sanfrancisco

Dec 10, 2010 - 05:05pm PT

The ropes are weighted using an ascender, which grabs the rope sheath and, on the standard-style rope, pulls it down off the core. This is particularly a problem if you are on ascenders near the end of an untied rope and hence can pull the whole lower sheath off and fall to your imperfect day.

After seeing this, I'm leaving my box-cutters at home.

jsj

climber

Boulder

Topic Author's Reply - Dec 10, 2010 - 05:07pm PT

If it's just the sheath failing, then what you see happening is the weighted jumar pulling the sheath completely off the core of the rope... but if you had a knot tied in the end, the jumar and torn sheath would only slide down to that knot before being stopped...

...unless the jumar pulled right off the rope altogether which I can easily imagine happening on a messed up sheath like that.

adatesman

climber

philadelphia, pa

Dec 10, 2010 - 05:09pm PT

I seem to recall another manufacturer recently coming up with a different solution where the sheath strands are woven through the core strands. Can't for the life of me remember who it was, but I'm curious how it would fare under a similar test.

Acer

Big Wall climber

Dec 10, 2010 - 05:19pm PT

I like the UNICore. I bet that it passes the edge test too. Pretty much makes sense on all ropes. Might be good on ice with all those sharp points.

I was just talking about buying new ropes with a friend. I will be keeping with what ever I find on sale.

Having trouble finding a 60m or 70m Unicore. Found the 200m, 20m, and 30m. I don't see myself buying 200 meters at a time.

Prod

Trad climber

Dec 10, 2010 - 05:22pm PT

Now I get it, you guys mean tied off as in back up know as well as the end of the rope knoted.

Duh, told you I was dim.

Prod.

High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber

Full Silos of Iowa

Dec 10, 2010 - 05:23pm PT

It appears to me the setup is rigged for the sheath to pull off the core near the free end.

"How often are you on jumars near the end of a rope that isn't tied off?"

Exactly.

bergbryce

Mountain climber

Oakland

Dec 10, 2010 - 05:28pm PT

I believe most lab tests on ropes are done using a near worst case scenario. Jumar usage + near end of rope + no safety knot + sheath damage = pretty damn' bad scenario.
We get multiple lessons from this viddy.

squishy

Mountain climber

sacramento

Dec 10, 2010 - 08:08pm PT

what's wrong with my rope?

G_Gnome

Trad climber

In the mountains... somewhere...

Dec 10, 2010 - 08:27pm PT

But how are it's dynamic properties? I don't jug so I don't care about pulling the sheath off unless this also is still as dynamic as a regular rope.

HighDesertDJ

Trad climber

Swimming in LEB tears.

Dec 10, 2010 - 08:37pm PT

That would make me feel a damn lot better while on a wall. I always did walls with one of those Eidos Mammoths or whatever it was called. Cost me a pretty penny but the piece of mind was worth every cent. I get really wigged out about that stuff when I'm up on a wall for whatever reason.

Banquo

Trad climber

Morgan Hill, CA (Mo' Hill)

Dec 11, 2010 - 10:54pm PT

I wonder how much weight they had hanging on the rope.

Fishy

climber

Zurich, Switzerland

Dec 12, 2010 - 06:18am PT

The argument "but how often are you jumaring near the end of the rope??" really seems to miss the point.

This rope is obviously significantly less likely to suffer a major sheath failure when rubbing on an edge. With normal ropes if you cut one-half of the sheath, then the rest can simply break (as per the video). With the Unicore, the only way it can break is if it is cut all the way around (much less likely).

The Unicore ropes do however have somewhat higher impact forces (8.5 kN), and seem to be marketed primarily for undoor use (exploiting their seeminlgy higher resistance to lot of use and abuse).

So whilst they may offer a much reduced chance of major sheath failure, there may be other trade-offs to consider.

Maybe an ideal wall rope, as long as the belay is nice and dynamic?

As they are not produced for "normal" lead use, it would seem there must be some other downside, maybe the handling as stated above.

Morgan

Trad climber

East Coast

Dec 13, 2010 - 09:30am PT

@ Banquo. I think it was 80kg.

ulybaZZa

Trad climber

Bonn, Germany

Dec 15, 2010 - 06:43am PT

By the way, 8.5 kN is not a high impact rating

Well, it's kind of high for Beal though.

//wild guessing mode on
Most of their ropes are in the 7s, which I believe is achieved by having somewhat higher dynamic stretch ratio. Wall Master seems to have dynamic stretch similar to other Beal ropes but higher impact rating. It might be that unicore does reduce the dynamic properties of the rope and that is the reason why it's not used in all ropes.
//wild guessing mode off

ulybaZZa

Trad climber

Bonn, Germany

Dec 15, 2010 - 06:54am PT

Also, if you compare the number of falls of Wall Master 10.5 (8) to other 10.5 ropes from Beal, it's less (TopGun is 11 falls for example, and they even have Booster III which tested for 9 falls while being only 9.7mm). Another evidence of reduced dynamic properties.

Euroford

Trad climber

Louisville, CO

Dec 15, 2010 - 09:50am PT

i don't really see what the debate is about, thats cool, i want one.

Matt M

Trad climber

Alamo City

Dec 15, 2010 - 11:40am PT

Yeah, seems like a solid design and the 8.4kN impact force is still good and pretty much par for the rest of the ropes out there (other than Beal).

Anyone know where to find a 10.2mm version in something other than spool (200m) length?

A 70m x 10.2mm would be a sweet wall rope.

English version with a bit more info:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CtURlhPssQI

adatesman

climber

philadelphia, pa

Dec 15, 2010 - 11:42am PT

Been thinking about this video a bit, and it occurs to me that the test is actually more severe than it looks. I don't know the specifics of the regular rope used in the test, but most are constructed as a 24 strand hollow weave over the nylon core. On my Beal Joker (the only Beal I have handy) each strand in the sheath makes one full rotation in every 1.030". The cut in the video looks to me to be about an inch long, and if that's the case they are in fact cutting _all_ of the strands of the sheath (same as if they had cut around the circumference). In that case it isn't surprising that the sheath slipped, as there was nothing holding it in place. This also makes a good case for their new design which doesn't slip when _all_ of the sheath strands are cut.

Then again, how often do we hear about 1" long gashes being cut completely through the sheath longitudinally on a rope? Severe abrasion, sure, but that still leaves the sheath attached and can be mitigated by bigger thicker sheaths (a la Mammut Supersafe)

-aric.

Matt M

Trad climber

Alamo City

Dec 15, 2010 - 11:54am PT

Other ropes that were/are marketed and "safer" against cutting:

Edelweiss - Their Stratos and now the Sharp. My understanding is that Edelweiss incorporated a special "thread" ala fishing line into the rope to resist full cut failure.

Mammut - The supersafe has what they describe as a Teflon coating to help resist cutting. I've also thought there was more to their sheath, maybe another layer?

The Beal design really appeals to me on several levels. As a Gym rope, the middle shouldn't get all thick from the sheath slowing moving that way due to all the lowering.

Outside, the cut resistance seems pretty awesome. I'd like to see tests with a cut perpendicular to the rope as well (more typical of a rope over a sharp edge)

Jaybro

Social climber

Wolf City, Wyoming

Dec 15, 2010 - 08:58pm PT

Remember the old MSR ropes from the early '70's? They were a similar, solid unit construction. No sheath, but not a layed, rope. They came in a bland color and you dyed them yourself. Some kinds of dye caused them to bleed into snow...