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Messages 41 - 60 of total 146 in this topic << First  |  < Previous  |  Show All  |  Next >  |  Last >>
ralph_teh_klimber

climber
ralph town
Dec 8, 2005 - 01:15pm PT
in a perfect neo-con utopia all brown non-xhristians would be eliminated. i really enjoy the situational hate, it really makes things easy. there is no balance only a one sided thought process that allows for self rightousness no matter what the need be.

kill tookie, kill gwb, kill barney and kill that f*#king harry potter as#@&%e!

funny how flourescent lighting and recycled office air can make so many wannbe climbers feel so tough from a far. get tough go visit tookie and call him the nigger that YOU know he is.

hang nails the internet climbers most fretful injury.
Jody

Mountain climber
Templeton, CA
Dec 8, 2005 - 01:19pm PT
Hey Ralph, you have issues buddy.
Patrick Sawyer

climber
Originally California now Ireland
Dec 8, 2005 - 01:27pm PT
Fattrad, that's not true about Ralph. He does know at least two things: Barney and Harry Potter must both die.
TradIsGood

Trad climber
Gunks end of country
Dec 8, 2005 - 01:36pm PT
Let's just assume that DMT is both a climber, and he is innocent (whatever that means).

Should we allow him to decide to climb a difficult and dangerous route. If he makes a mistake he might cause the death of himself and his partner (also innocent), leaving their families unsupported. I am not willing to do that. Life without climbing.

So DMT / jury-judicial system has a decision to make. Can / should we trust either one to be able to make the right decision? Keep in mind that in either case there is a non-zero probability of an error resulting in the death of an innocent and a cost to society.

Tradboy

Social climber
Valley
Dec 8, 2005 - 01:37pm PT
My views on the death penalty are still somewhat mixed, but I'd like to add to the questions that BASE posed. Perhaps somebody could provide answers that provides for more enlightenment beyond describing how you'd like to pump someone full of pellets.

Why is it that we are only one of the few industrialized countries that still has the death penalty? Is there something that these other countries realize that we don't?

Why is it that the conservatives on this forum took the stance that I expected them to take?

If I know for sure that someone kills my wife, and I commit vigilante justice by killing that person, I will still be charged with murder. If this person is killed via the death penalty, it still meets the definition of a murder in my opinion, though one may argue that the definition has unlawful in there somewhere. Same end, but different means, so political affiliations aside, how is one means more moral than the other?
Wholly Mammoth

Social climber
that little dot on the map
Dec 8, 2005 - 01:43pm PT
http://static.flickr.com/16/20925859_5d8dbeaaa3_o.jpg

Looks like a Nobel winner to me!
Ed Bannister

Mountain climber
Victorville, CA
Dec 8, 2005 - 01:46pm PT
Has anyone noticed that this thread has the longest replies??

Unsoeld makes a bad choice, dies in Kadaver gap.

Slater takes a rest day when he could have summited, dies the day after, descending K2 when he is stormed off.

Why would any climber argue about consequences?

Foster a subculture, and lead by the example of murder for sport.
He should have been executed some 18 years ago, closure for the families, a possible deterrent for others, who knows haw many of his compatriots would not have committed additional murders if he had died within a year or so. How many lives were affected by our systems failure to not just try, but execute in a timely manner?

Most seeking justice are not bloodmongers, they just know that evil must be opposed for good to prevail. To suggest otherwise is to let the worst determine the conditions for all, that might even encroach on your trip to starbucks.

Forest

Trad climber
Tucson, AZ
Dec 8, 2005 - 01:47pm PT
They should give him a gut shot from a 12GA and leave him gurgling to die like he did his victims.

Wow, that's so .... christian of you.

What happened to infinite forgiveness and compassion? What happened to looking at how Jesus would handle the situation? And you wonder why some people see certain incarnations of these religions as so much hypocrisy that's just there to make the masses feel better about themselves while they go on being just as immoral as the heathen masses.

Now, I'm not calling for him to be set free, for sure. He unarguably committed a crime so heinous that he has no business ever being a part of society again. But there's a big difference between protecting society and pursuing vengeance, which is all the death penalty is about. "eye for an eye makes everyone blind" and all that.


don't understand why the "black community" rallies behind slimes like Tookie and they gang up and lambast outstanding citizens like Clarence Thomas and Condoleeza Rice.

Why in the world would they support people who've done so much and supported people who've done so much to counteract what is commonly perceived as good things for the black community (think anti-affirmative action, pro huge cuts to medicaid, child care, etc.)? They should support them just because they're black?
Bruce Morris

Social climber
Belmont, California
Dec 8, 2005 - 01:56pm PT
Capital punishment would act as a deterrent if the execution were carried out 6 weeks to 6 months after sentencing. Nevertheless, 20 years on death row is quite a punishment in itself, but doesn’t do much to stop people from committing murder in the first degree. No real good answers as long as the criminal justice system is trapped between punishment and reformation (as it has been since the late 19th century).
TradIsGood

Trad climber
Gunks end of country
Dec 8, 2005 - 01:57pm PT
Tradboy - Why is it that we are only one of the few industrialized countries that still has the death penalty?
Does it matter? Because the others don't? We are also the strongest politically and economically. We also probably have the largest level of immigration of those same countries. Does this mean they know something we don't? Red herring argument.

Is there something that these other countries realize that we don't? Same. Maybe it is what they don't realize.

Why is it that the conservatives on this forum took the stance that I expected them to take? More Red herring, not to mention perhaps mislabeling of people.
Jody

Mountain climber
Templeton, CA
Dec 8, 2005 - 02:01pm PT
Capital punishment is not meant to be a deterrent, it is punishment for a crime.

Anti-death penalty advocates...I am curious how you can fight to keep alive a hardened criminal but fall all over yourselves to make sure we can keep killing innocent life in the mother's womb?



Dingus Milktoast

climber
NorCal
Dec 8, 2005 - 02:06pm PT
You'd be nuts to trust either.

DMT
TradIsGood

Trad climber
Gunks end of country
Dec 8, 2005 - 02:12pm PT
OK, Dingus. You escape with a plea bargain. LWC.

Please send me your rack.
Dingus Milktoast

climber
NorCal
Dec 8, 2005 - 02:19pm PT
I broke my neck in May trailsgood, 2 fractures in C1 (the Chris Reeve fractures) and another in C2. I roped up in August and simulclimbed the SE Face of Cathedral with Burl as my first route back. I have been climbing almost every weekend since.

You can have my rack when you pry it out of my cold dead fingers. Till then?

F*#K YOU GRIM REAPER!!!111

Sure is fun climbing with my kids in the sun. Now THEY are mostly innocent.

Cheers
DMT
BASE104

climber
An Oil Field
Dec 8, 2005 - 02:22pm PT
Jody, you are not consistent.

If it were punishment you were after, we would all stake him to an anthill. Right before he died, we would take him off, heal him and repeat the process for the rest of his life. Ultimate punishment for the ultimate crime. Punishment should always exceed the crime, but for murder, there is nothing greater than the equal.

Seriously, how do you justify that it is OK to put someone to death, and be against, say, stemcell research. How can you say to the world that you would shoot someone in the gut to die slowly and be a consistent Christian. I just don't get this.

One of my best friends is an ex/DA now criminal attorney. We were talking about the death penalty the other day, and he said certain attorneys specialized in it. If you could not pay for said attorney you are likely f*#ked. If you, like OJ, could afford a million dollar attorney, you could commit murder and likely walk. He said that is why poor people fry. They can't afford a Johnny Cochran type defense.

He said the same thing about Tom Delay, that he has a VERY good lawyer, and if the state didn't bring in an equal, he will walk.

So, does punishment depend on how much money we make?

Why are you punishing him? So he will see the error in his ways and not do it again? Like he would be alive to understand? It is vengeance, not punishment. And we all know whom vengeance belongs to.
BASE104

climber
An Oil Field
Dec 8, 2005 - 02:25pm PT
Sorry, forgot this Jody snippet:

"Anti-death penalty advocates...I am curious how you can fight to keep alive a hardened criminal but fall all over yourselves to make sure we can keep killing innocent life in the mother's womb?"

Isn't this an absolute; a knife that cuts both ways? I believe that the Catholic church feels this way.
Ouch!

climber
Dec 8, 2005 - 02:30pm PT
dirtbag

climber
Dec 8, 2005 - 02:38pm PT
"Capital punishment is not meant to be a deterrent, it is punishment for a crime."

I agree, which means that is done to satisfy a lust for blood. Pretty damned primitive behavior.
Ouch!

climber
Dec 8, 2005 - 02:43pm PT
"Anti-death penalty advocates...I am curious how you can fight to keep alive a hardened criminal but fall all over yourselves to make sure we can keep killing innocent life in the mother's womb?"

It's because we've only had 6,000 years to perfect our methods of inflicting mayhem on humanity.
Dingus Milktoast

climber
NorCal
Dec 8, 2005 - 02:48pm PT
They use a needle in this state locker. Before that it was cyanide.

DMT
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