Tookie Must Die

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TradIsGood

Trad climber
Gunks end of country
Dec 8, 2005 - 10:57am PT
Tradboy - Why is it that we are only one of the few industrialized countries that still has the death penalty?
Does it matter? Because the others don't? We are also the strongest politically and economically. We also probably have the largest level of immigration of those same countries. Does this mean they know something we don't? Red herring argument.

Is there something that these other countries realize that we don't? Same. Maybe it is what they don't realize.

Why is it that the conservatives on this forum took the stance that I expected them to take? More Red herring, not to mention perhaps mislabeling of people.
Jody

Mountain climber
Templeton, CA
Dec 8, 2005 - 11:01am PT
Capital punishment is not meant to be a deterrent, it is punishment for a crime.

Anti-death penalty advocates...I am curious how you can fight to keep alive a hardened criminal but fall all over yourselves to make sure we can keep killing innocent life in the mother's womb?



Dingus Milktoast

climber
NorCal
Dec 8, 2005 - 11:06am PT
You'd be nuts to trust either.

DMT
TradIsGood

Trad climber
Gunks end of country
Dec 8, 2005 - 11:12am PT
OK, Dingus. You escape with a plea bargain. LWC.

Please send me your rack.
Dingus Milktoast

climber
NorCal
Dec 8, 2005 - 11:19am PT
I broke my neck in May trailsgood, 2 fractures in C1 (the Chris Reeve fractures) and another in C2. I roped up in August and simulclimbed the SE Face of Cathedral with Burl as my first route back. I have been climbing almost every weekend since.

You can have my rack when you pry it out of my cold dead fingers. Till then?

F*#K YOU GRIM REAPER!!!111

Sure is fun climbing with my kids in the sun. Now THEY are mostly innocent.

Cheers
DMT
BASE104

climber
An Oil Field
Dec 8, 2005 - 11:22am PT
Jody, you are not consistent.

If it were punishment you were after, we would all stake him to an anthill. Right before he died, we would take him off, heal him and repeat the process for the rest of his life. Ultimate punishment for the ultimate crime. Punishment should always exceed the crime, but for murder, there is nothing greater than the equal.

Seriously, how do you justify that it is OK to put someone to death, and be against, say, stemcell research. How can you say to the world that you would shoot someone in the gut to die slowly and be a consistent Christian. I just don't get this.

One of my best friends is an ex/DA now criminal attorney. We were talking about the death penalty the other day, and he said certain attorneys specialized in it. If you could not pay for said attorney you are likely f*#ked. If you, like OJ, could afford a million dollar attorney, you could commit murder and likely walk. He said that is why poor people fry. They can't afford a Johnny Cochran type defense.

He said the same thing about Tom Delay, that he has a VERY good lawyer, and if the state didn't bring in an equal, he will walk.

So, does punishment depend on how much money we make?

Why are you punishing him? So he will see the error in his ways and not do it again? Like he would be alive to understand? It is vengeance, not punishment. And we all know whom vengeance belongs to.
BASE104

climber
An Oil Field
Dec 8, 2005 - 11:25am PT
Sorry, forgot this Jody snippet:

"Anti-death penalty advocates...I am curious how you can fight to keep alive a hardened criminal but fall all over yourselves to make sure we can keep killing innocent life in the mother's womb?"

Isn't this an absolute; a knife that cuts both ways? I believe that the Catholic church feels this way.
Ouch!

climber
Dec 8, 2005 - 11:30am PT
locker

Trad climber
Joshua Tree Ca
Dec 8, 2005 - 11:37am PT
I feel for those that try and pull the "Christian card" on this one...

"What would Jesus do?"

The answers certainly separate those who pretend to be Christians, from those who use His name in vain, when it is convenient to do so.

What is the Jesus question all about? Without being all religious, or all Christian, I think it is a provocative question about what makes up a "superior" or "evolved", or a "civilized" person, rather than a troglodyte.

But lets look at the specific case, as one should do. This fellow has been locked up for 20 years, and during this time, he made a choice: to reform. As a society, it should be apparent, that we have the opportunity to react to reform. Most criminals do not reform. When we release them, as most are, do we want them to be motivated to reform....or to be better criminals? Do we want the long termers to have no motivation to behave, or do we want them to perfect their killing skills in prison, prior to release


....I for one am not Christian... I am agnostic as they come... FRY HIS F*#KING ASS!!!... Who gives a f*#k if he has REFORMED!!! Ever consider that he may just be doing the "Prison thing" and pulling the wool over the eyes of others to save his coward ass???... "I believe in the lord now!!! I write books!!! I am a good person!!! I apologize!!! DON'T FRY ME I AM A SCARED BABY!!!".......

Can you say ........"SIZZLE"???...
dirtbag

climber
Dec 8, 2005 - 11:38am PT
"Capital punishment is not meant to be a deterrent, it is punishment for a crime."

I agree, which means that is done to satisfy a lust for blood. Pretty damned primitive behavior.
Ouch!

climber
Dec 8, 2005 - 11:43am PT
"Anti-death penalty advocates...I am curious how you can fight to keep alive a hardened criminal but fall all over yourselves to make sure we can keep killing innocent life in the mother's womb?"

It's because we've only had 6,000 years to perfect our methods of inflicting mayhem on humanity.
Dingus Milktoast

climber
NorCal
Dec 8, 2005 - 11:48am PT
They use a needle in this state locker. Before that it was cyanide.

DMT
Hardman Knott

Gym climber
Straight Outta Squamton
Dec 8, 2005 - 11:49am PT
Chaz wrote:

Tookie's fate is in the hands of a guy called "The Terminator".

I don't think Tookie is going to make it.




Would The Terminator risk being perceived as a bleeding-heart girly-man?

Knott!

All––or nearly all––jokes aside, it should be remembered that the prison record of Dookie
speaks for itself. He was almost certainly running things from the inside, and spent
5 years in solitary confinement. Gee, I wonder why???? It was only after all those
years that he started renouncing gangs and the gansta lifestyle he championed for decades.

Since someone mentioned being nauseated, I'll say this: It's nauseating to me that while
this guy has become a veritable media-darling; not a fuçking word of compassion
has been uttered for his victims!

Nauseating, indeed...
Bruce Morris

Social climber
Belmont, California
Dec 8, 2005 - 11:54am PT
No, Jody, capital punishment is intended both as a punishment and a deterrent. That's the inherent contradiction that creates all the arguments. No way around it as long as we live in 2005.

PS- There is no innnocent life in the womb or anywhere else. All life by its very nature exhibits criminal behavior (i.e. freedom). That is, until we're all reduced to hydrogen atoms (again?) in some dark star.
locker

Trad climber
Joshua Tree Ca
Dec 8, 2005 - 11:59am PT
DMT I use the term "Fry" and "Sizzle" as metaphors for doing that dumb f*#k in... I am aware of how it goes down... ON that note however, too bad he will "Fry" the easy way...


(On yet another slant... when I used to take drugs... the word "Fry" was used often pertaining what was going to take place in ones mind...So it still fits anyway)

Thinking that we are these great and intellegent beings that have somehow gotten rid of our "natural instincts" is ridiculous IMO... We have and will always KILL... it is who and what we are as animals... I can see it now, Lions, Tigers, Aligators...farming corn and tomatoes...
TradIsGood

Trad climber
Gunks end of country
Dec 8, 2005 - 12:00pm PT
Bruce, you need to brush up on your chemistry. :)
10b4me

Trad climber
On that V2 problem at the Happies
Dec 8, 2005 - 12:04pm PT
Ken,

tookie is beyond reform. why is it all these people(once they go to prison) start renouncing their past? tookie has no redeeming values. I say fry the bastard.
Bruce Morris

Social climber
Belmont, California
Dec 8, 2005 - 12:06pm PT
What? Argon-Amoninia or some other nice atomic structure under incredible gravitational pressure? Philosophically: all ens becomes non-ens sooner or later. Tookie and us, too.
James

Social climber
My Subconcious
Dec 8, 2005 - 12:13pm PT
It's nice to know that there is no reform for Tookie because it means that people can't change in life. I haven't recieved that such hope since my days in the Betty Ford Clinic.
LittlePinkTricam

Trad climber
Providence, RI
Dec 8, 2005 - 12:29pm PT
He's been nominated for a Nobel Peace Prize 5 times. I guess his "humanity" (a Nobel Peace Prize criterion) is more notable than yours.
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