A New Golden Dawn-Mt. Watkins Bruce Morris Mountain 1984.

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Steve Grossman

Trad climber
Seattle, WA
Topic Author's Original Post - Sep 26, 2010 - 06:10pm PT
Tales of the Golden Dawn on Mt. Watkins from Mountain #95 January/February 1984. Whole lotta slab over there! Do these routes see any traffic these days?




deuce4

climber
Hobart, Australia
Sep 27, 2010 - 06:07pm PT
Beautiful route. Easy access and splendid featured granite over there. Did an early ascent of Golden Dawn way back when. Bruce Morris was considered "light" BITD for his affection for slabs, but he was way ahead of his time in some ways.

Lots of other great lines over there...


But don't tell anyone!
SteveW

Trad climber
The state of confusion
Sep 27, 2010 - 06:12pm PT
Hey Steve, haven't had time to read it all yet, but
looks great. Thanks for your continuing historical threads!!!!
Steve Grossman

Trad climber
Seattle, WA
Topic Author's Reply - Sep 27, 2010 - 10:51pm PT
I would love to see some topos especially the route described in the postscript!

You out there Ermas?
Steve Grossman

Trad climber
Seattle, WA
Topic Author's Reply - Sep 28, 2010 - 09:29pm PT
Der Golden Bump!
Greg Barnes

climber
Sep 28, 2010 - 09:38pm PT
And Urmas went back in 2003 and replaced his own route with his own bolts - nice!

Golden Dawn, Mt. Watkins All bolts (23) replaced by Dustin Clark and Urmas Franosch, as well as 3 bolts along the approach rappel route. Replacement done with personal gear, and Urmas was one of the FA team 20 years ago - a big THANKS to these guys! NOTE This route usually approached from Hwy 120 near Tuolumne, so we've included it both in the Valley and Tuolumne sections. 09/03 Dustin Clark, Urmas Franosch
http://www.safeclimbing.org/areas/california/tuolumne.htm
Steve Grossman

Trad climber
Seattle, WA
Topic Author's Reply - Sep 28, 2010 - 11:25pm PT
Way to follow through!
Clint Cummins

Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
Sep 28, 2010 - 11:54pm PT
Steve, thanks for scanning and posting this. Somehow the Austin-Cantwell route was left out of the Reid guidebook, but I have added it to my list now. I added it to the Long, Hard and Free page, too, with a link back to this thread.
http://www.stanford.edu/%7Eclint/yos/longhf.htm#watkins

There is a topo for Golden Dawn on p.205 of the 1994 Reid Free Climbs guidebook. I have a corrected version from Brian Cox which I will try to scan and post at some point.

I don't know if the Austin-Cantwell has ever been linked with Golden Dawn or Escape From Freedom.

Urmas (Urmas), Chris (ghostfromthepast) and Bruce (Bruce Morris) have all posted on supertopo in the recent past.
Steve Grossman

Trad climber
Seattle, WA
Topic Author's Reply - Sep 28, 2010 - 11:59pm PT
I really don't remember hearing much about them at the time, oddly enough.
Chinchen

climber
Way out there....
Sep 29, 2010 - 12:09am PT
Hmm looks good! I just hiked around the wrong side of Watkins this weekend.
Watusi

Social climber
Newport, OR
Sep 29, 2010 - 03:46am PT
Classic post, cheers SG!!
bob

climber
Sep 29, 2010 - 09:36am PT
I did Golden Dawn a couple summers ago and thought it to be an excellent route. So beautiful. Man those dikes!
If doing in the summer hike down at 10 or so. It get shade the second part of the day.
There sure are a lot of lines drawn on that face over there. Just sitting anywhere above Tenaya Canyon like that puts me in a trance.
Thanks for the post.
Bob J.
homemade salsa

Trad climber
west tetons
Sep 29, 2010 - 11:30am PT
We did an early repeat of this route back in the 80s (spring of 84?). Myself, Bruce Morris, and Gary Robie. Remember being really cold at the belays as the wind whipped up the canyon. The dikes are dramatic, though.

Then we got to the top of Watkins as the sun was setting over Half Dome- gorgeous! But then Bruce tells us that he has no night vision and can't quite remember which way is back to the Highway. A long bushwack through residual snowfields underlain by cold water. Stopped and made a fire a couple of times, and the second time saw headlights slice through the trees above us; "the road!!" Then when we got to the road, a fierce argument ensued about which way to turn.
Steve Grossman

Trad climber
Seattle, WA
Topic Author's Reply - Sep 29, 2010 - 05:28pm PT
Cameras along guys?
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Sep 29, 2010 - 05:48pm PT
I love slabs.....
donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
Sep 29, 2010 - 05:51pm PT
I loathe slabs. Hold on bluering, if we all liked the same things it would be a little crowded out there- enjoy!
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Sep 29, 2010 - 06:06pm PT
Good point, Jim. Very true.
curt wohlgemuth

Social climber
Bay Area, California
Sep 29, 2010 - 06:38pm PT
Thanks very much for posting this Steve, and for writing it, Bruce! Great stuff.

How hard is Golden Dawn itself, with the "usual approach?" I don't have a guidebook here at work...
G Murphy

Trad climber
Oakland CA
Sep 30, 2010 - 12:15pm PT
That side of Watkins is pretty impressive. Feels remote, fabulous location, and an amazing amount of exposed rock. Bruce and Urmas'
Escape from Freedom (near New Golden Dawn) has got to be one of the best long routes I've done.
Steve Grossman

Trad climber
Seattle, WA
Topic Author's Reply - Sep 30, 2010 - 12:49pm PT
I am proud to be a slab climber! Can't get enough, of that knobby stuff!

If times are tough, the edge of a nickle will do! LOL
bob

climber
Oct 1, 2010 - 10:56am PT
G. Murphy, did you free the whole Escp. Freedom? It looked so UNBELIEVABLE over there! I would love to read some sort of report of that if you ever feel into it.
My legs have more power than my arms. I love slab climbing.

Bob J.
G Murphy

Trad climber
Oakland CA
Oct 1, 2010 - 12:16pm PT
Bob J - We did Escape From Freedon in 1990, I think; probably the 3rd ascent. At the time there were a handful of A0 moves, which is what we did. The climbing is stellar up wildly featured dikes, then traversing 6 pitches or so on dikes and polish, with the headwall finish. Some mandatory 5.11+ moves and stacks of 5.10+/5.11- climbing. About as good as it gets, I don't know why I've only done it once.
Tom Addison later freed all the aid moves, but I don't know if it's been put together as a continuous free ascent.

I was always hugely entertained by Bruce's Mountain articles.

Greg
Urmas

Social climber
Sierra Eastside
Oct 1, 2010 - 12:24pm PT
Thanks for posting this Steve. While replacing the bolts on NGD back in '03 I realized that there is an unnecessary runout on p4. From a no-hands stance there is a 5.9 move about 20' out from the last bolt. I intend to go back to add a bolt soon. When this is done the route can be recommended to those who weren't schooled in the "leader must not fall" mentality BITD.

This is a very enjoyable route which can be approached from hwy 120 in an hour and a half by your average mortal. Park by a gated road that leads to a maintenance yard south of the hwy. Follow game trails that contour past the summit of Yasoo dome. The descent gully can be identified by the "rabbit ears" boulders shown in the Reid Vally Free Climbs book. The right hand variation to the second pitch is preferable to the left one because it avoids a flaring wide section.

I doubt that anyone has done the complete route described in the article. Linking the Austin/Cantwell/Morris start with either Escape From Freedom or New Golden Dawn would require some undistinguished looking wandering and hiking. I think most parties would rather get right to the good climbing by approaching from above.







Steve Grossman

Trad climber
Seattle, WA
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 5, 2010 - 12:13am PT
Great job maintaining your route, Ermas! Love to see some topos, especially originals!
Clint Cummins

Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
Oct 5, 2010 - 03:30am PT

Here's a topo with several corrections from Brian Cox - he has done this climb many times!
[Edit: uprated p1 to 5.10d - Brian had made this correction in my Meadows guide, but not Valley guide. He also drew in another bolt on p6]
[Edit #2: added bolt to p6, note about RPs, note about rockfall on p7]
Clint Cummins

Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
Oct 5, 2010 - 04:48am PT
[Edit: rappel line corrected - thanks, Urmas.]
Urmas

Social climber
Sierra Eastside
Oct 5, 2010 - 01:14pm PT
Steve, the topo in the book is a copy of Bruce's original.

Clint, your yellow descent line is to the right of the correct route. It actually starts in the gully, not on the crest of the buttress to the right as you show it.

Brian, I wonder if you did the route after it was rebolted. The rappel from knotted sling was replaced by a modern 2 bolt anchor. Maybe you just didn't find it?? Also I'm surprised you found the first pitch easier than the third. You're the only one so far.
bob

climber
Oct 5, 2010 - 01:36pm PT
I felt the first pitch was the hardest for both leader and follower. The first pitch seemed a bit uncharacteristic of the rest of the route except for maybe a spot of 5.9 well above a bolt on a dike up high. Nowhere near the difficulty of the first pitch when above pro though.
Nice work on that route Urmas. This route is a bedded memory not to fade. How about looking over and seeing all the people lined up the cables! WOW We though we were just seeing posts until the camera zoom came out.
Does anyone have some info on more free routes on Yasoo besides The Chief and South Face?
I have heard rumors of another good free route/routes. That face is brilliant.

Bob J.
Urmas

Social climber
Sierra Eastside
Oct 5, 2010 - 04:44pm PT
Bob: Al Dude, Nate Greenberg and I put up a route on Yasoo called Peacepipe (5.11d A0) which starts on the smooth slab to the right of the lower buttress of The Chief, and continues more or less straight up to the summit. The crux pitch at 2/3 height known as the "White Lie" consists of a 60' bolt ladder which has yet to be freed. Al and I have done the moves, we just have not linked them without falling. It would involve sustained crimping on micro edges and probably go at 12a/b. With his permission I will post the topo.

Weekend Warrior

Trad climber
Palo Alto, CA
Oct 6, 2010 - 12:46am PT
I did this route for the 4th time in 2009. At that time it was not possible to climb up from the last bolt on the climb (7th pitch) as shown in the Reid guide due to the small arch/roof over which the climb went having let loose. I continued traversing up and right (5.8) past the last bolt and then up to a nut belay (~58m). Also note that, while all other bolts were 3/8", the belay at the end of pitch 5 is still 1/4" (at least, the 1/4" bolts are still there and I couldn't find any others...). Urmas and company also added a new sling to the appropriate rappels, but these were looking a bit ragged last year.
Weekend Warrior

Trad climber
Palo Alto, CA
Oct 6, 2010 - 01:14am PT
Urmas,

I've done the route twice since it was rebolted. Neither time did I find another rappel in lieu of the knotted slings. The 1st time this may have been due to having 50m ropes and the 2nd from not wanting to rappel into the water in the lower part of the gulley. In 2009, I didn't bother with the knotted slings and just downclimbed (5.2-ish with a bit of ~5.7 10' off the ground).

I thought the 1st pitch was the crux on the sharp end but was glad that I wasn't doing a couple of the moves on the 3rd pitch with the air of the 1st (although if I'd brought some RPs, there would've been a bit less air on the 1st...). And as an editorial comment, for those who like slabs, the 3rd is stellar.

Brian
Urmas

Social climber
Sierra Eastside
Oct 6, 2010 - 11:58am PT
Memory is an interesting thing. According to my pal Jeff Dozier two things happen as you get older. The first is that you forget things that happened, and the second is that you remember things that didn't.

My recollection is that when we rebolted the rappels we left links rather than relying on webbing. It seems we also neglected to replace the p5 anchors - OOOPS!

I just looked at the original topo this morning and found that we did rate the first pitch 10c, as shown in your topo. Funny, because the few times I have done the route since the FA, I thought it was harder. By the way, I've felt that RP's were essential for the first pitch. Doing it without them would certainly be bold!

I guess now I have a couple more reasons for going back. Oh well!
Weekend Warrior

Trad climber
Palo Alto, CA
Oct 7, 2010 - 09:18pm PT
Yes, memory is indeed an interesting thing.

There are lap links on the 2nd and 3rd rappels that I did. However, the 1st is from a tree (AFAIK) and the ancient slings were too tight due to the tree growing and the newer black slings that you (I assume) left were getting pretty tight. I cut off the 2 older ones and retied them together around the tree.

In my 1st ascent of this route (8/83 or summer '84), I had a hand drawn topo and if it mentioned RPs, I missed it. My 2nd was 5 years later and I forgot to bring them. But, in those days, it was "oh well, another runout". In 2007, it was "man, why didn't I bring the !#% RPs" and in 2009, it was "shit!!! not again...".

Clint Cummins

Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
Oct 8, 2010 - 03:35am PT
Brian,

I updated the topo to add a note about RPs, added a bolt to p6, and added the post-rockfall way to do p7.

Thanks for all the edits!
Clint Cummins

Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
Oct 8, 2010 - 04:15am PT

Because a topo only shows one view of a climb....
G Murphy

Trad climber
Oakland CA
Oct 8, 2010 - 11:37am PT
I think I did Golden Dawn with Elliott Robinson and we had RPs. Probably because Brian told us to bring them.

Greg
Steve Grossman

Trad climber
Seattle, WA
Topic Author's Reply - Dec 16, 2010 - 03:32pm PT
Neue Goldene Bumpus!
Steve Grossman

Trad climber
Seattle, WA
Topic Author's Reply - Dec 26, 2010 - 12:38pm PT
Bruce Morris Bump!
em kn0t

Trad climber
isle of wyde
Jan 11, 2011 - 05:13pm PT
For those lucky enough to be on the east side...

free slideshow at snowcreek athletic club in mammoth lakes tonight:

Urmas Franosch, Big Wall Climbing on Mt. Watkins

(I'll also cross-post as a new thread)
Steve Grossman

Trad climber
Seattle, WA
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 11, 2011 - 09:14pm PT
Hot ticket em!
Steve Grossman

Trad climber
Seattle, WA
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 12, 2011 - 09:59pm PT
Hopefully, Ermas will post a shot or two once the footlights dim a little! LOL
Bruce Morris

Social climber
Belmont, California
Jan 13, 2011 - 02:23am PT
I seem to recall that I did the first pitch of the GD on the first day that Urmas and I rapped in there and rated it 5.10c. Yes, we did have RPs along. But we both thought the third slab pitch was the crux at 5.10d. I did that one too and rated it 5.10d. Certainly seemed harder technically than the first, but maybe that was because of the hand drilling? In any case, I also remember that the second undercling/OW pitch took a 3.5" camming device (i.e. 'Friend').
Urmas

Social climber
Sierra Eastside
Jan 13, 2011 - 11:46am PT
The right hand variation to the second pitch, first climbed by Bob Harrington, doesn't require wide pro, and will be preferred by most I think.
Bruce Morris

Social climber
Belmont, California
Jan 13, 2011 - 05:27pm PT
I remember that Zappa Dave Austin underclung the whole OW section of the second pitch without any arm bars or knee locks. Oh well! To each his own! Can't understand why more people walk out there and do GD. With the hike and rap in, it seems like it should be a popular Meadows day excursion.

Good to see you writing on the boards, Urmas. I'm still doing a few new routes now and then at Castle Rock; that is, whenever I can push my walker out to Last Temptation Cliff or the new area, Diamond Heights. Best to keep on climbing (and skiing) I'd say because the alternatives are not that attractive.
Urmas

Social climber
Sierra Eastside
Jan 13, 2011 - 10:40pm PT
I don't understand it either. It's partly due, I'm sure to the misleading approach beta in the Reid guide. Probably better that way though. Folks get upset when too many people start showing up at their area. I will be going out next summer myself to replace the bolts I am told I missed.

Yeah, we'll keep climbing.....until all we can do is climb out of bed!

Good to hear from you, Bruce!
Steve Grossman

Trad climber
Seattle, WA
Topic Author's Reply - Mar 27, 2011 - 02:42pm PT
Wake Up and Clip! Bump...
Zappa

Big Wall climber
Apr 23, 2011 - 12:00am PT
So, this is a stealth post because no one is still following this thread. It looks like the line Cantwell and I did will finally get in the guidebook. Good. Thank you, Clint.

It is kind of mind blowing that no one has repeated this route and gone on to routes on the wall above it. The headwall has to be seen to believe how amazing it is. Go do it. It won't be easy, but it will be beautiful. Please send me the trip photos.
Steve Grossman

Trad climber
Seattle, WA
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 24, 2011 - 12:07pm PT
Hey Zappa Dave!

Golden Routes from the Golden Days get the Golden Bump.

Do you recall taking the Big Ride over the lip on Tightrope BITD?!?
Steve Grossman

Trad climber
Seattle, WA
Topic Author's Reply - Jul 30, 2011 - 12:28am PT
Big Ride Bump!
Steve Grossman

Trad climber
Seattle, WA
Topic Author's Reply - Jul 30, 2011 - 01:55pm PT
Second ascent just waiting folks...
Bruce Morris

Social climber
Belmont, California
Jul 30, 2011 - 03:19pm PT
Dave Austin, Scott Backes and myself went in to repeat the "Land of the New Rising Sun" (IV 5.11a) in June 1980(?) and after doing the crux second pitch got rained and snowed off. Epic retreat through rising nightmare creeks etc. etc. Then, in 1984, after putting up the "Golden Dawn" in July 1983, Urmas and I attempted to hike in from the Ahwahnee Hotel and link up "Land of the New Rising Sun" with the "Golden Dawn" (IV 5.10d). But after completing the first three-four pitches we got lost wandering around in some dihedrals and couldn't figure out where the "L of the NRS" went from there.

Maybe with the publication of Clint Cummin's new Yosemite Guide some brave souls will attempt a one-day link up of the "L of the NRS" to "Escape from Freedom" (VI 5.12c)? That makes more sense than hiking up the intervening slabs to the "Golden Dawn" finish. No matter. In any case, that's a lot of slab pitches in one day. Best to have driver meet you where the Snow Creek trail ends at the Tioga Road (US 120) to drive you back down to the Valley. Otherwise, quite a hike back. With a detailed topo I imagine the "Land of the NRS" would be a snap.

What would be truly amazing though is if the "L of the NRS" led to a new route starting out of the big water spout holes on the East Face of Watkins and then took a drop of water line straight up to the top of Watkins. Just talkin', but there certainly is a high-standard line still to go up there, probably out of the farthest east water spout. Unfortunately, it's so steep you'd probably have to rap bolt it. But to each his own!
ß Î Ø T Ç H

Boulder climber
bouldering
Jul 30, 2011 - 03:33pm PT
http://gigapan.org/gigapans/fullscreen/14838/
Clint Cummins

Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
Jul 30, 2011 - 05:45pm PT
Slight clarification to Bruce's post - I'm not the only person working on updating the guidebook. Thanks to Bruce, David and Chris, I have a decent topo of Land of the New Rising Sun - if anybody wants to "test drive" it, just let me know.
Bruce Morris

Social climber
Belmont, California
Jul 31, 2011 - 03:11pm PT
I stand corrected, Clint. But who are the others working on the new Yosemite climbing guide? Does that mean it's going to be a collective effort involving a collaboration between various individuals?

PS- I too took the big ride over the lip on Tight Rope BITD. When I first met Dave Austin that was one thing we had in common. Didn't hit anything either, which is surprising, given the length of the fall. My toes just touched the slab underneath the roof.
Steve Grossman

Trad climber
Seattle, WA
Topic Author's Reply - Jul 31, 2011 - 03:51pm PT
Tightrope has to have one of the most dramatic falls on the Apron. Amazing that both of you guys took that one!

I always thought that the name is too perfect.

Way to stay on Vern and Tom Carter! Time for a Tightrope thread. I hope that you will elaborate some more Bruce...

Tightrope thread is:

http://www.supertopo.com/climbers-forum/1568902/Tightrope-Clevenger-and-Carters-Apron-Madness-1975
Steve Grossman

Trad climber
Seattle, WA
Topic Author's Reply - May 27, 2013 - 09:02pm PT
On stance bump...
Steve Grossman

Trad climber
Seattle, WA
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 24, 2015 - 12:45pm PT
Bump for all things Dawn...
Vitaliy M.

Mountain climber
San Francisco
Sep 28, 2016 - 05:17pm PT

Mark Westman and I climbed the formation between Yasoo and East Face of Watkins. Was a very long route. Red is the line, black are the belays and blue is unroped scrambling/hiking. Anyone knows what is the formation called?
We turned the corner to the left because there were sweet cracks there that I scoped climbing Golden Dawn and a new route next to Golden Dawn. Cool area.

BUMP for a cool article/thread. Wish to have skill to give Escape From Freedom an honest go one day. One of the few established routes that inspires me to get better at slab.
shylock

Social climber
mb
Sep 29, 2016 - 11:05am PT
Bumb for more photos from v and anyone else
Urmas

Social climber
Sierra Eastside
Sep 29, 2016 - 01:25pm PT
That's cool Vitaliy! I have spent hours looking at that buttress between Watkins and Yasoo. I looks amazing! Don't know what it's called though. You should name it. Did I understand correctly that you climbed a new route near Golden Dawn? Would you post a topo or photo overlay? I love that area and am excited to hear about anybody climbing there - especially new routes.
Vitaliy M.

Mountain climber
San Francisco
Sep 29, 2016 - 09:29pm PT
Urmas, the place is really cool. I have been inspired by the route you and Bruce climbed there for a while - Escape From Freedom. Hope to gain enough skills to try it one day. Hope to organize all the photos from climbing the Golden Dawn and these two routes after I return to the Bay Area. And hope to spent more time climbing out there in the future. The Yasoo dome looks like a semi-forgotten gem!
Have to think of a good name for that formation between the Yasoo dome and Mt. Watkins. Maybe use a native name to fit with the theme of Basket and Acorn domes? What does Yasoo mean?

Our route up Watkins went from the toe of the buttress up and pulled over the long horizontal roof on the right (east) side. You can see the rock scar on top of the Golden Dawn here:

Scenery is hard to beat!
Scole

Trad climber
Zapopan
Sep 30, 2016 - 08:09am PT
It was great to see this article again. I must point out however, that it was Chris Cantwell who had the dreams of flying in, and of crashing, a B-52.
My dreams were vivid, but of a much more enjoyable type.

The bee sting incident happened when Punk Roy knocked a rock loose on a steep section that covered a yellow jacket nest. I was behind him carrying an 80 lb haulbag and wearing shorts and tennis shoes. I was swarmed by hundreds of yellowjackets and every inch of skin was covered by them. I must have been stung over a hundred times. It was fortunate that I was not allergic to the stings, or I would have died right there. I did swell up to about twice normal size, then later lost an entire layer of epidermis as the inflammation went down.

We climbed two pitches on that attempt, but I was so uncomfortable from the stings and Chris was so weirded out by his dreams that we headed out the next day.
Steve Grossman

Trad climber
Seattle, WA
Topic Author's Reply - Sep 30, 2016 - 08:10am PT
Proud effort Vitaly.

I had a feeling that this thread would lead to a few new routes with all that nice clean slabbage to be had.
Urmas

Social climber
Sierra Eastside
Sep 30, 2016 - 08:11am PT
Yasoo is another awesome formation. Al Swanson and I put up a route there called Peacepipe V 5.11d A0. There is a 60' section that hasn't been freed yet, but will definitely go. Al's route the Chief is super good too. Keep sending the new routes, Vitaliy! Your TR's are the best thing on ST!!
ablegabel

Trad climber
Livermore, CA
Sep 30, 2016 - 12:43pm PT
Urmas,
On Peace Pipe, I have that section on the 10th pitch recorded as freed at 5.12 now. There is also a report of a hold breaking on the third pitch, that may have made that pitch harder.

On the FA list, I have; Al Swanson, Urmas Franosch, and Greenberg.
There is no FFA credit. Possibly Tom Addison?

Do you have a first or last name for Greenberg?

 Eric Gabel
Llewelyn Moss

Big Wall climber
LZ Loon
Oct 1, 2016 - 08:38am PT
V,

We first climbed that dome in 2009(?). I forget the exact year. I was on a mission to tag all the formations back there. That took a while. Your route looks pretty cool.
Vitaliy M.

Mountain climber
San Francisco
Oct 6, 2016 - 03:27pm PT
LMoss, where did you climb up it? The area is awesome. What did you end up climbing up watkins and Yasoo? And what else?

Some more photos



Llewelyn Moss

Big Wall climber
LZ Loon
Oct 7, 2016 - 05:10am PT
V,

We also got the fa of Mini Dome. This is the dome you refer to as "acorn" dome. Yeah, my girlfriend named it but that is the climber's name of that formation. Mini is a proud ground up send of ours and the FA. Glad you got to experience that location.

V, have fun, but be mindful of routes back there. There are a lot more than you think. Careful.
Vitaliy M.

Mountain climber
San Francisco
Oct 7, 2016 - 12:18pm PT
If you can post where the routes you have climbed go in order to avoid any confusion, it would be awesome. No one wants to mess with existing routes, but when the First Ascent team is not willing to share what they have climbed it is not unreasonable to blame self, in case someone goes out there without knowing what is there. Climbers can't read each other's minds and there are no road signs at the base pointing out what has been climbed. It is not a big deal to post what you have climbed, this climbing thing we do is something some of us take really seriously, yet in the same time to the universe it is chasing the wind. Pointless. It does not make us better or worse people to repeat hard routes or climb new ones.
Before being aware of anything on it we proposed the Harding Tower as the name. The two giant balls at the base and nature of the route we climbed seemed to fit haha, but please post up something different if you have a better name with route topo, we did not have any strong opinions on the names, if someone from this forum had something better, we would be happy to hear, or let Eric G. name the thing, can care less! But anyway, on the route Mark W and I did on the formation between Watkins and Yasoo there was a spot when I asked Mark if he could simul about 10-15 meters from the belay while I did some 5.8-9 slippery friction slab to a place where I could make a natural belay. A few bolts on that pitch would make a lot of sense, and I may actually add them in the future. But if I didn't want anyone to do so, sharing where I went would be vital for other people to know where not to bolt (as the terrain is slabby and skills/comfort level etv vary greatly). Any of the FAs out there who are protective of their babies, PLEASE claim them! Make it easier for all of us. :)

Here is a topo for Teabag Wisdom (about 1300-1400 ft w/ a crux of 11a, most pitches are low to mid 10), which is a route Chris Koppl and I did over 4 days GU. It is not a death route, yet fairly committing in spots, don't let the topo deceive you to think it bolted every 6 feet everywhere. The falls are usually safe and it is reasonably well bolted, it is no death route! But I have to avoid feeling like a sandbagger if someone goes out there and gets spooked. The quality of climbing, location and rock is stellar. One of the best routes I have climbed anywhere. That's why we decided to put in time to make good anchors and a rap route. With xrex it is easy to locate, or also the gully used for Golden Dawn can also be used.
Hope some people go climb it before the Tioga closes for the season, it is a worthy outing that can hopefully put a smile on your face! Allow one hour from Olmsted Point (on a good trail all the way) to the top and a few hours to the base. Maybe 4-8 hours for the climb, depending how much of rock-gangster the climbers are.


Clint Cummins

Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
Oct 7, 2016 - 01:42pm PT
Thanks for the overlay.

Looks like a lot of bolts.
Did you place them on lead, or on rappel?
Vitaliy M.

Mountain climber
San Francisco
Oct 7, 2016 - 02:01pm PT
On lead. GU. We bailed on the first attempt slightly less than half way up. Climbing out the rap gully sucks btw. Returned, finished. Left the ropes up there, added anchors on rap on 3rd day. Took 4 days of work total. On the final day we started early and added several on the way down for rap/belay anchors and climbed the route clean and free. Because it takes forever to place bolts some days were LONG.
It sucked to add belay anchors in most of the spots where gear can be used, but people would not be stoked with those, and because the climbing was so good we did not want to half ass it. So enjoy! And please send feedback about pitch lengths and ratings so they can be updated if there is a a need. Want to be as objective as possible. As long as there is not a huge difference, it is all good. One letter grade or 5 meters. Because of the rap route you can bring several ropes and mini trax it even. Don't think you will encounter crowds. :)

Clint Cummins

Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
Oct 7, 2016 - 02:03pm PT
Cool, thanks for explaining.
Bob and I do the same thing sometimes - single bolt belays at first and add the second bolt later.

P.S. "Llewelyn Moss" has reported his climbs on Mini Dome to me. They are mostly left of Luke's rapbolted dike route.
Actually the first pitch of Luke's route is in a crack and is the start of one of the routes LM did.
They will be in the new book, and a photo overlay is available if you plan to climb there and want to know what's been done.
Vitaliy M.

Mountain climber
San Francisco
Oct 7, 2016 - 03:45pm PT
Nice, hope the FA credit is to 'ananymous.' Glad there are people out there who are so humble they are too good to post up where their climbs go, yet want the community to know they are there and respect their boundaries. Hoping to bring an oracle along for the next trip!

Before climbing on the middle dome, I researched online, in the old guide and even looked at Eric ' s binder for the New Comprehensive guide (thanks a lot for that!), there was no name or routes listed for the formation. Also, Bruce Morris told me multiple times that I should do a route right of the Golden Dawn and on the formation to the right because he knew of no one who has seen it from the base. I tried hard to find out what's on it! Lol. So please let us know what did you do on it, where it goes etc. It is the usual practical way of avoiding confusion regarding things that are done. You don't have to write an article in the climbing magazine, sign up for instagram and these reports won't make you as cool as Royal or Harding, but it can prevent confusion and hurt feelings!
limpingcrab

Trad climber
the middle of CA
Oct 7, 2016 - 04:24pm PT
Deleted. Don't want to be a sarcastic dooooshbag
Clint Cummins

Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
Oct 7, 2016 - 07:28pm PT
LM's reason for not reporting routes in this area to the general public is that he likes climbing in more remote areas with very few other climbers around.
This does make it harder to do new routes, because it may take time/trips to figure out what has already been done. Instead of say putting up lines between the well known lines.
It also involves a risk that his climbs may get "bolted over" if there are few signs of passage and later parties prefer more bolts on what they think is a FA.

This happens in some remote areas, like Fireplace Bluffs.
Walt Shipley and John Middendorf did a FA there some decades ago, but John can't remember where it went, and they didn't place any bolts.
So when Eric Gabel started doing routes there, he placed very few bolts
because he was not sure if he was climbing over their route.
Later when I did some routes there with Bob,
we were twice mistaken about where some of the known no-bolt routes went (even though we had a topo),
and we went back and removed a few that we placed.
ablegabel

Trad climber
Livermore, CA
Oct 7, 2016 - 10:55pm PT
I actually didn't know about the other route on Fireplace Bluffs when we went up there. We saw a few bolts under the arch when we got there, which turned out to be a couple Sean Jones routes. Not knowing what else had been done, we went with a light hand for sure, in case we found that our route had seen a prior ascent. But the reality was that the rock was so beautiful up there, I was just reluctant to put any bolts in at all. We were pretty confident that our routes hadn't been climbed. The protection seamed to come just often enough to keep us pushing on.

We ended up putting in two double bolt anchors on two different routes. So four bolts total for the 25+ pitches we established up there. This resulted in some run out but beautiful R/X routes. It was nice to get first pick of the bunch up there for sure. Of course this made it hard for the next party up there to figure out where we had been. So Clint and Bob had to sort out our lines as they established theirs. But that's how it goes sometimes, and they were very respectful of our routes.

I think it's always best to climb bold when putting up new routes in unknown areas, till you figure out what's gone on before you. You can always add protection later if necessary.

Hopefully more information will come to light in the Watkins area, to clear up what has been done out there.

 Eric Gabel
Bruce Morris

Trad climber
Belmont, California
Oct 8, 2016 - 02:30pm PT
Isn't the Acorn down below North Dome, nowhere anywhere near the East Face of Mt Watkins?

As I recall, I ran out from the Snow Creek maintenance yard and found the descent gully to Watkins that I'd seen earlier in the week on a run up Half Dome. Urmas and I then went out there and rapped down the gully, placing bolt anchors to let us go down and bivy at the base of the Golden Dawn. A couple days later, in the afternoon, we rapped in with porta-ledges, double racks, food, hammers and bolts. That evening I led the first pitch and fixed a line before dinner. The next day we did Pitches 2, 3, 4 and maybe started 5. The last day on the wall we finished 5, added 6 and completed Pitch 7, topping out around 3 in the afternoon.

It took only a little over 2 days to complete ground-up on sight, mostly because the route was so well defined. No rapping in from above, all stances, no hooks. A couple days later we rapped in with an assistant and jugged back up the descent gully with our bivy gear. Some said we should have begun at Ahwahnee Hotel parking lot to do a true ground up but the descent gully is a long way over from the East Face and an adventure in itself.

I'm sure Urmas can supply more details, but that's what I recall now. What was so satisfying was that it fit together so perfectly and we emerged successful on our first attempt. Nice to see there's now more to do out there and that's there's more to come.
Urmas

Social climber
Sierra Eastside
Oct 9, 2016 - 09:03am PT
Bruce, your memories of the FA are more detailed than mine. I don't have anything to add. I think it's great that more lines are being done in that area. It might start to see more traffic as people realize how quick the approach is. I'm sure that climbers will continue to find solitude however.

Eric, Peacepipe FA team included Nate Greenberg. Would be very curious to find out who freed the "White Lie" pitch, and what the exact rating is.
Bruce Morris

Trad climber
Belmont, California
Oct 9, 2016 - 12:53pm PT
Urmas - I do find it interesting how V found it an easier approach to amble in and back from Olmsted Point rather than post-holing up and down the sand piles from the Snow Creek trail intersection on the Tioga Road (US 120).

The preferred approach?

"The great way is wide for those with no expectations"?

Perhaps!

Check with Tom Addison about freeing the White Lie pitch I guess.
Vitaliy M.

Mountain climber
San Francisco
Oct 9, 2016 - 09:37pm PT
As I recall, I ran out from the Snow Creek maintenance yard and found the descent gully to Watkins that I'd seen earlier in the week on a run up Half Dome. Urmas and I then went out there and rapped down the gully, placing bolt anchors to let us go down and bivy at the base of the Golden Dawn. A couple days later, in the afternoon, we rapped in with porta-ledges, double racks, food, hammers and bolts. That evening I led the first pitch and fixed a line before dinner. The next day we did Pitches 2, 3, 4 and maybe started 5. The last day on the wall we finished 5, added 6 and completed Pitch 7, topping out around 3 in the afternoon.

It took only a little over 2 days to complete ground-up on sight, mostly because the route was so well defined. No rapping in from above, all stances, no hooks. A couple days later we rapped in with an assistant and jugged back up the descent gully with our bivy gear. Some said we should have begun at Ahwahnee Hotel parking lot to do a true ground up but the descent gully is a long way over from the East Face and an adventure in itself.

Damn, that's pretty bad ass. I remember the 3rd pitch on the Golden Dawn being quite sustained and stances for drilling being tiny there. Thought some of those could have been done from hooks or at least with using the previous bolt as a part of the stance. Whoever led that pitch must have had calves of steel. That would be like a 2 hour lead probably with 6 bolts to drill?!


For the approach I thought the way from Olmsted was slightly longer mileage-wise, but all trail, till you are on top of Watkins crossing the slab towards the gully. Chris and I usually hiked out by headlamp, with getting to the car around 4am on the first day of our attempt. Thought it was nice to not care about cutting across the woods just right to get to the sand lot. However you do it, the approach is damn short. On one of the days we timed it from olmsted at 50 minutes going in with two ropes and all the gear. Maybe it is long for someone used to approach El Cap but come on, hiking to some cliffs at Owens River Gorge will take you longer. Can't be more happy that this particular route waited for us all these years, yet believe other people would have a blast in the location, whatever they climb. A fantastic place! Personally, I feel more in line with the attitude Bruce Morris has displayed over the years, being more inviting for other people to experience the place instead of trying to keep it all to himself and his buddies. There is so much damn rock in the state you can do new routes till your body falls apart. No good reason to go to only one spot and banging out every possible line. To each his own though.
Bruce Morris

Trad climber
Belmont, California
Oct 9, 2016 - 10:30pm PT
I led the 3rd pitch in one push, hand-drilling all the bolts from natural stances without hooks or standing on in place bolts. About an hour? Those were the rules: This is your pitch. If you hang or lower, it belongs to your partner to take over from you and finish. The leader has to put in the double-bolt anchors too after leading his pitch in one continuous flow.

These were the conventions developed by Scott Burke and practiced by David Caunt and Rob Settlemeyer and others.

A stern school but taken to an ever higher level of strictness on "Escape From Freedom". Compared to Escape, GD is weak sauce.
Urmas

Social climber
Sierra Eastside
Oct 10, 2016 - 07:58am PT
I remember the third pitch differently. We alternated drilling the bolts. I will never forget standing on those slopers and drilling my heart out! Bruce drilled the last one or two and finished the lead, but I know I drilled at least 2 bolts on that pitch.
Vitaliy M.

Mountain climber
San Francisco
Oct 10, 2016 - 09:27am PT
Should have been writing trip reports, not poetic articles about the flowers and waiting for the angels to come down from the sky! :) Just kidding.
Urmas

Social climber
Sierra Eastside
Oct 10, 2016 - 10:11am PT
Some people aspire more toward creating literature than self promotion! Kidding also! :)
Vitaliy M.

Mountain climber
San Francisco
Oct 10, 2016 - 10:37am PT
Missing out! Posting TRs onto a local forum instead of writing out stories for magazines is how you get famous AND SPONSORED! You guys totally missed out. Climbed for pretty much no reason at all. ;)
Gnome Ofthe Diabase

climber
Out Of Bed
Oct 10, 2016 - 11:33am PT
B
U must think I'm a piss ant but I've read every word and much of it twice
My bad for wrecking the flow of this thread.
Personally, hearing of a fifty minute approach ? !

Totally still within my ankles and knees abilities
Only the economics of mortgage cars and two kids in the way

Do you think there will be an explosion of interes? punks from SF crowding one route?
Urmas, sorry from your tone I can tell you suffer no fools
My dedication to do nothing but climb rocks in obscurity has been its own reward
People who find me in the zone can count on a good pump, even if it is only a full day out.

The story of the FA, is a shadow of that time when everyone was striving to up the style
Holding the ground up CLEAN ethic ( hook-less as possible risking long falls )
East cost climbers, the south-east, most of all, holds some of the most worrying run-outs

Trying to follow this up with worthy tripe is weak sauce so I'll stop.
R
U
M
P

T
H
R
E
A
D
Urmas

Social climber
Sierra Eastside
Oct 10, 2016 - 11:43am PT
Vitaliy, you remind me of a line by the Nick Nolte character in A Walk In the Woods, "I've spent half of my life drinking and chasing women, and the other half I've wasted"! If a tree falls in the woods, and nobody sees it, or a climb is done in obscurity, It never happened. Right?
Bruce Morris

Trad climber
Belmont, California
Oct 10, 2016 - 12:20pm PT
Obviously, Urmas your memory of some things is more accurate and less self-aggrandizing than mine! Yeah, now that you spell out the details, I do remember yo-yoing the 3rd pitch with you and finishing with the last 2 bolts. They were all drilled from stanches though.

The Burke rules were an ideal that was subject to modification on site according to conditions and circumstances. But people did attempt to observe them. Just go check out "The Token".

I think the general sequence of events surrounding the FA that I gave is pretty accurate since I arranged my 35mm slides in sequence later. 1 day establishing the rap anchors down the gully. 1 afternoon rapping in with bivy gear, ending with a lead of Pitch 1. Then 2 more days climbing out to the top. A clean up day a couple days later with that guy from Colorado.

Rules were meant to be broken! But we had done a lot of face climbing in the Valley that spring so Urmas and I were pretty good at hand-drilling at that moment.

Doing something good is its own reason.
Vitaliy M.

Mountain climber
San Francisco
Oct 10, 2016 - 12:26pm PT
If a tree falls in the woods, and nobody sees it, or a climb is done in obscurity, It never happened. Right?

If you don't have an instagram, you don't exist!

(last posts of mine were very sarcastic) :)

The Burke rules were an ideal that was subject to modification on site according to conditions and circumstances.

Rock climbing in general is like that though. We all would (likely) agree that onsighting on lead, drilling from stances if you have to, GU, etc is the ideal outcome. Yet if you are putting up something REALLY hard, a 40 foot whipper could demonstrate HOW challenging of a task that the individual is facing. Having to lower from a bolt because you managed to drill two bolts from marginal stances is not a sign of weakness (to me) but more like getting over yourself and accepting that the fresh partner could likely do a better job at that point. After all the time on the wall is limited and if you trust your friend/partner, it seems like a good idea. So when you push yourself to the LIMIT and end up taking whippers or not adhering to the 'ideal' outcome, to me it seems even more rewarding in the end, compared to following the ideal way on something less challenging for the individual. Of course, if you can push it following all of the above, it could be very special, but going climbing is not only following some defined logic, being creative, having a good time, being somewhere cool, it is all a part of the personal experience. And yes, if it has not been written about or had a professional photoshoot, it is still damn great to look back at the raw experience.
Bruce Morris

Trad climber
Belmont, California
Oct 10, 2016 - 01:32pm PT
Yes, humans get tired.
Grippa

Trad climber
Salt Lake City, UT
Oct 10, 2016 - 02:47pm PT
bitchin thread
Urmas

Social climber
Sierra Eastside
Oct 10, 2016 - 04:39pm PT
Yes Bruce, your recollection of the sequence of events is accurate. I can only remember 2 other times we didn't follow the Burke rule - Pitches 11 and 18 of Escape From Freedom. And not once did we drill from a hook - always from stances. The rounded features of those routes don't particularly lend themselves to hooking. Edit: And maybe pitch 7, I can't remember for sure.
this just in

climber
Justin Ross from North Fork
Oct 11, 2016 - 09:05am PT
Please follow me on Instagram @jross1838.
Vitaliy M.

Mountain climber
San Francisco
Oct 11, 2016 - 10:32am PT
Do you even drill from stances bro?
Bruce Morris

Trad climber
Belmont, California
Oct 11, 2016 - 01:22pm PT
Urmas - I think year one on "Escape From Freedom", I was stopped by difficulties on Pitch 7 and was forced to drill one bolt standing on the one below it. Year two when we returned and finished the route I stood in a sling on the last bolt, jumped for and grabbed a big edge and did a 5.11 mantle on it, drilled a last bolt and climbed up to the Silver Fish bivy ledge. The next day we hauled all our junk up there and began working on the Middle Apron which finally let us access the more featured Upper Headwall and the summit.

I'm guessing Tom Addison couldn't free Pitch 7 our way so traversed right below my ladder and cleaned and freed the 5.12b left-facing corner crack in the new free topo. I always thought my ladder would go free at some ridiculously high standard, but it remains 5.11b A0 to this day. As I recall that was the only pitch I fell on on the whole route. I think it was a 5.10d move. You never fell once.

So that's how I remember Pitch 7.
Vitaliy M.

Mountain climber
San Francisco
Oct 11, 2016 - 01:39pm PT
Serious question, how much time did you guys dedicate to slab climbing over the years before putting up the Escape from Freedom? It seems like you guys were pushing that sort of climbing to new levels. Even if not, to me it seems that this sort of style is quite cool because it relies heavily on technique and balance.
Any tips for improving at the style for the others who may look at the thread now or in the future? I think your advise would be very useful for most. Did you feel bouldering slab problems in the valley helped a lot? Climbing a lot of mileage on such terrain? Doing 100 calve raises with 100 lb backpacks? Certain core exercises?
Urmas

Social climber
Sierra Eastside
Oct 11, 2016 - 04:52pm PT
Vitaliy, Speaking for myself, I never liked to train or work out. I did what I was able to do by climbing a lot of mileage and bouldering. During the mid eighties I climbed almost every day from May through October. Winters I worked as a ski instructor and didn't climb much. Summers I collected unemployment, and worked nights in a restaurant when I had to. Back then I wanted very badly to approach the boldness of the slab climbers I admired. Climbing hard grades was less important than keeping a cool head while soloing or running it out. Somehow I survived. I don't think I went about it the best way though. My advice now would be: focus on good technique and fitness, and boldness will come in time. I took a lot of chances that in hindsight I was lucky to survive.
Bruce Morris

Trad climber
Belmont, California
Oct 11, 2016 - 08:38pm PT
V: "Serious question, how much time did you guys dedicate to slab climbing over the years before putting up the Escape from Freedom?"

The spring before we did Golden Dawn, Urmas and I climbed almost every friction pitch over on the Apron as preparation for the endeavor. But it did seem like I was climbing slabs from about 1974 to 1988 on a regular basis. The Apron, MCR, Royal Arches Apron, DAFF Dome, Pywiack Dome, Stately Pleasure Dome etc etc etc Did a lot of cracks too, but always returned to slabs for "fun". I think bouldering at Castle Rock State Park is a good introduction to slab climbing thanks to the large number of mantles and weirdo friction moves that can be translated to granite friction climbing quite easily. I know Al 'Dude' Swanson cut his teeth at Castle and he was always into gold granite edge climbs.

Seems like Vern Clevenger really blazed the trail for slab climbers beginning in the mid-1970s. His achievements in that area really upped the bar for everyone and showed what could be done with hand-drilling. Chris Cantwell raised the bar even higher with his Hall of Mirrors. So there are really lots of influences that effected the development of high-standard slab climbing. Too many to cite here, including what Scott Burke did and what Dave Caunt and Dave Settlemeyer accomplished. Lots and lots of people working in that general area over many, many years, even decades.

As Urmas suggested above, it doesn't really seem like there's a good way of training for slabs except by doing a lot of them and building on your experience.
Vitaliy M.

Mountain climber
San Francisco
Nov 3, 2016 - 02:30pm PT
I thought the granite on the formation we dubbed the Harding Tower was quite awesome and returned several times to complete more climbs on it. Seemed like a no brainer. Not sure if any of them cross Mr. Anonymous' routes, but I don't think there was much overbolting, with all these routes being mostly 1600-1900 ft of slab climbing and requiring 5 bolts or less for all the routes. Some are incredible. Sack attack was a bit dirty...but WILD that's for sure.

All done onsight in a day with various partners.
1. Sack Attack IV 5.11
2. Short Man Syndrome IV 5.10+
3. Mr. Anonymous, Bite The Pillow I'm Goin in Dry IV-V 5.11+ R (5.10 RX)
4. New Life IV 5.10 (5.8-9 RX)
5. Basically Absurd IV 5.10 R

Vitaliy M.

Mountain climber
San Francisco
Dec 14, 2016 - 09:50pm PT
Added another route between 4 and 5 before the snow came. Called it the Ol' Dirty Ewok IV 5.10 R. Was very fun actually and protected good enough mostly.
ß Î Ø T Ç H

Boulder climber
ne'er–do–well
Dec 14, 2016 - 10:01pm PT
[Click to View YouTube Video]
Steve Grossman

Trad climber
Seattle, WA
Topic Author's Reply - Dec 16, 2016 - 05:38pm PT
Gotta love all that clean stone!

Way to get after it Vitaly!
Bruce Morris

Trad climber
Belmont, California
Dec 16, 2016 - 06:09pm PT
V, are all those lines going to be in the new complete Valley Guide? Easiest way to approach is from the Meadows, specifically via Olmsted Point as you discovered. Always surprised that no one went in there and did more after our initial forays in 1983 and 1988, respectively.

People are lazy, but you certainly weren't!

The most totally awesome new routes out there are the two drop-of-water lines out of the big water holes west of "Escape From Freedom". Are they your next targets? I know that Scott Burke friction traversed out to the first water spout hole/bathtub, but didn't do the line. Must be a reason! The territory out there is very, very steep (as you know). Not conducive to hooking either. Stance and hand-drill your way up, or rap and drill pre-engineer the path. Never know till you try.
Vitaliy M.

Mountain climber
San Francisco
Dec 16, 2016 - 10:01pm PT
We started to rap bolt the line from the top, looked too hard for GU. Aiming down towards the water holes. I think it will go free, most of the way. In the worst it will be a short bolt ladder in a spot or few. But yeah, the rock is amazing! Too bad the big snow came... :/ I think your friend did not want to deal with it because there is too many bolts to place. But he was gonna hand drill. Wink wink. ;)

The approach from the top is the best way for sure.
aldude

climber
Monument Manor
Dec 16, 2016 - 10:31pm PT
Really?... another Growing Up. Give the rock a chance fer crying out loud.
Vitaliy M.

Mountain climber
San Francisco
Dec 16, 2016 - 10:48pm PT
Should be a good route. At least the top four pitches are great. When you approach the rock from the top, might as well start drilling from there. BFD!
thebravecowboy

climber
The Good Places
Dec 16, 2016 - 10:53pm PT
if a bolt is on a slab an no one is ever there, does anyone care?
aldude

climber
Monument Manor
Dec 17, 2016 - 12:08am PT
That's the rub tut....it's a first ascent not a first descent.
Bruce Morris

Trad climber
Belmont, California
Dec 17, 2016 - 01:39am PT
You could ground up one of those routes out of the water spout holes no doubt, but there'd be an element of uncertainty about where you'd have to begin laddering (i.e. cheating). Ground-Down would certainly result in an impressive hard line but would be a sure victory (whether you were able to free it or not). Ground-Down seems like it eliminates the opportunity for an impressive personal adventure though. A matter of taste.
Vitaliy M.

Mountain climber
San Francisco
Dec 17, 2016 - 07:13pm PT
Ground-Down seems like it eliminates the opportunity for an impressive personal adventure though.

That's why I was only kidding when I said we are rap bolting a line on Watkins. You can pull April's fools earlier, it is usually more effective. :)

Let me waste time and talk about nothing, as most people have their minds made up. Personally, I feel the most satisfaction when climbing new routes ground up, onsight, all free, at my complete limit mentally and physically. Yet, if I did that every time I tried to climb something new, it would be mentally tiring and it would get boring as you get the same thing every time. Doing things differently is what I love about climbing. Get creative. Ice climb, do some slab, a big wall, a mountain, repeat an old classic, climb in the gym, bust ass to do the quickest possible time that you can on a ridge traverse, take it slow on a new route. Whatever! Someone can find their spirit in the mountains, someone can find natural beauty, challenge, athletic pursuit, maybe a reason to exist?
In the last several years I have done a load of new lines, encountered many different scenarios and have heard all kinds of stories about other people running into situations where the best solution is not obvious. Especially when you take on routes that COULD become modern free climbing test pieces (not 5.10 cracks). Most people do not do new routes and most of those who do, don't usually go for lines that may run into blank overhangs. I wish most would understand, no matter how you do it, usually the individual is trying to find something challenging and do the best that they can. Who am I or anyone else to set qualifications for someone to put a new route up or a bolt in? Climbing is about fining freedom and hopefully using your best judgement. But because Ground Up was brought up, why do you think it was a wrong decision to go ground up as far as possible, then after seeing the possibilities for higher deciding to bolt the steep face on rappell? It allows for a much higher chance for some strong bad ass to free the route some day and minimizes the impact. If they bolted the ladder GU and then bolting the other variation, no one would say a word! A paradox. Individuals get to choose own style, hopefully doing the best they could, creating a line that will hopefully not only be an adventure for the team, but be an adventure for other people in the future. Yes, I agree, it would be robbing yourself of an adventure of going GU, into the unknown, yet if the individual wants to have an adventure of finding the best climbing for those who come after, I think it is a pretty damn good adventure and basically is a public service. So I can't see why the "not another Growing Up!" comment? Is that simply to take a dump on guys who put that up or to make yourself feel more superior because you use a different style? If you pulled on a piece or a bolt t, you o make upwards progress, you have defeated impossible. But BFD, we are talking about CLIMBING. It is not like we are saving the universe here! Although obviously all of us are very passionate about doing it...too much bla bla. But sleep well, Watkins is not getting rap bolted!
Clint Cummins

Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
Dec 17, 2016 - 07:30pm PT
Thanks for outing your troll.
I was wondering what had happened.

You don't really want to discuss the Half Dome climb Growing Up here, do you?
Its original thread got locked
http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.php?topic_id=566859&tn=2660
but it could be continued on
http://www.supertopo.com/climbers-forum/587294/South-Face-rap-bolt-cluster-recap
Vitaliy M.

Mountain climber
San Francisco
Nov 28, 2017 - 10:39am PT
Did two more cool routes in the area this year with Chris. Up the middle of the Harding Tower (approx. line of route #3 from the photo above). Another one on Watkins, a direct line up the SE face, left of Escape from Freedom. Great rock but too much hooking and aid, don't think it would ever go free. :( The route up HT was really good with quality rock and climbing. The chimney to finish the route is awesome. And the setting....





Steve Grossman

Trad climber
Seattle, WA
Topic Author's Reply - Dec 22, 2018 - 10:36am PT
Anything in the works Vitaliy?
Llewelyn Moss

Big Wall climber
LZ Loon
Dec 23, 2018 - 04:29pm PT
Hey y'all,

The chimney finish to Semper Fi was climbed about 10 years ago. It was never named or reported. I don't want to steal V's thunder but the top half of that dome was climbed a lot. We thought it was cool to keep it on the d/l and here we are. Maybe stuff should be chopped maybe not. I don't really care. In the dark early one morning on a solo trip there, I blew my knee out on the top of that dome and never went back.
Vitaliy M.

Mountain climber
San Francisco
Apr 29, 2019 - 12:06pm PT
The chimney finish is only 2 pitches and we did not place bolts in it so there is nothing to chop there. It is a cool little dome and spot for sure!
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