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rob kassell
Trad climber
san jose, ca
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Topic Author's Original Post - Dec 2, 2005 - 04:36am PT
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tie your BACK UP KNOT if you self belay with this device. i decked from about 20 feet and shattered my heels. 6 months later i am walking with a cane (although last week i climbed the 5.6 kiddie climb at the gym). REDUNDANCY is key.
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Where'd you get a silly name like "Rob"? Must be posting from work. :-)
Glad you see you up and hitting the stone (I mean climbing)
Peace
Karl
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Southern Man
climber
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Hey Robbie:
How's about some details regarding the accident? Your post is pretty sparse. Exactly how did it happen? How could it have been prevented? etc.
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T Moses
Trad climber
Paso Robles
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I'll second Southern Man's motion for more information please. I have used one and had no peoblems, but then again I tie my back ups.
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rob kassell
Trad climber
san jose, ca
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 2, 2005 - 12:49pm PT
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hey karl, i'll be back on the wall by the end of next summer (yes i am posting from work).
details of the accident:
i tied off with a figure 8 on a bight at the anchors, dropped both sides of the rope down. i would rap down on one side of the rope and climb on the other side with the ushba attatched to my belay loop with a locker. (for those who don't know, an ushba is an ascender that cams off much like a gri gri...there is no teeth on this device like some ascenders.)
I have used this device for a few years now and mechanically didn't see how this device could fail....so eventually, i became too lazy to take 5-10 seconds to tie a back up knot on the side of the rope i would rap on.
i have fallen hundreds of times on the ushba usually at a much greater height like on lunatic or outer limits where i would be dust if it had failed there.
We have tried to recreate how it failed: did the locker twist and load the ushba wrong? did my leg wrap around the rope and force the back side down so the ushba would not cam? quite frankly, we can't reproduce how it happened. i am sure my leg wasn't wrapped around as i vividly remember the fall. after i decked (like a stiff stick figure) i fell backwards.....then, the ushba engaged...so it was on the rope correctly....
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steelmnkey
climber
Phoenix, AZ
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I'm confused... Ushba is a company as far as I know. Is there a device called a "ushba" for rope soloing? If not, what device was it?
Please Advise.
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handsome B
Gym climber
Saskatoon, Saskatchawan
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You can use either of these USHBA products.
The strange thing about the handled ascender (I do not own the plain ascender) is that it slides up and down the rope freely when verticly oriented and only engages when tilted backwards towards the climber. This proves very handy because if you are ascending using an Ushba and a gri-gri you can rap down a few feet by simple holding the ascender verticly and opening your gri-gri.
If the climber was soloing with the handled ascender it could have been possible that the locking biner or his harness was able to keep the ascender oriented verticly for the entire fall.
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Bilbo
Trad climber
Truckee
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Those don't look like solo devices to me.
Use a soloist or grigri.
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Nor Cal
Trad climber
San Mateo
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I watched "rob kassell" hit the deck. His Ushba was was properly rigged, as he was hanging on it less than as minute before his second fall on the climb. Here is my point of view; We were both climbing on Ushba's (no handle, instructions say Ok for self belay) in close proximity to each other, he did not make the move, fell and swung out of the way, I on my ushba, passed by him to the top of the 30' rock and leaned back on my ushba (which engaged) to watch him make the move. Up he went, the ushab drooping down and sliding up the rope as he climbed, I egged him on "you can make it", he fell and grabbed the rope, ZIP, he was on the ground. I dont remember rappeling to him, it went so fast. I said to him, "I can believe that happened", he said "MY BACK IS BROKEN". I grabbed my cell and called 911, the phone did not connect to 911 but went into 911 mode and I could not disconnect the call w/o removing the battery. He was in the hospital (stanford) with in 30 minutes if hitting the ground. I had bad dreams (could see him deck every time I closed my eyes) for a week until I returned and climb again at Handleys Rock, where I tried to make my Ushba fail, backed up, of course.
This accident never should have happened. We each had tied the ropes in the middle so two ends were on the ground. One for the ushba one to rappel/back up. We are both guilty for not bakcing up the ushba on a regular basis. I dont use mine much these days..
Bottom line is there is no excuse for not backing up any solo or self belay device. Hell bring a second rope if its on a tall cliff, or back up below your belay device on the same rope.
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handsome B
Gym climber
Saskatoon, Saskatchawan
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Bilbo,
Both of these devices are designed for toprope-soloing. The gri-gri is not.
One possibility is that if he grabbed the rope above the device he was able to apply enough friction for the device not to engage. The Ushbas work on the same principle as the gri-gri (spiral radius cam) and the above mentioned scenario has been the cause of many accidents using the gri-gri.
get better soon!
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Bilbo
Trad climber
Truckee
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If they are, they obviously suck!
They look like ascenders to me, meant to be used for ascending.
GriGri is a BELAY device.
But back on topic, he's right, the books are right, when ascending a rope, take the few seconds to tie a back-up knot every 10-15'.
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Brian in SLC
Social climber
Salt Lake City, UT
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But...an USHBA basic ascender doesn't really use a cam, does it? Not like a gri gri does.
Its more of a lever type arrangement, methinks. A straight bar that has a pivot point in the middle. Given the rope geometry through the device, any load forces the bar to shift and apply force, pinching the rope. No cam to rotate.
So, if you grab the rope, then you might change the pivot point, the bar won't lever and then won't pinch the rope?
I have and use an USHBA basic. But, after that Brit report on PPE devices and seeing one that had failed, I kind of rethought about it for self belay a bit, but, still use it as an ascender (so lightweight and no teeth).
Interesting. So sorry about the accident.
-Brian in SLC
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Nor Cal
Trad climber
San Mateo
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I think that when he grabbed the rope it slowed him just enough that his body never fell "past" the Ushba, thus not allowing it to rotate and lock in place. I never thought I could fall far enough with the ushba to create the forces to cut the rope. I know know that it is possible.
I too have been thinking about upgrading my slef belay device. I hear good things about the rocker, any one use this item?
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handsome B
Gym climber
Saskatoon, Saskatchawan
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I use the petzl basic for toprope soloing and the gri-gri for lead soloing.
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Big Mike
Trad climber
BC
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May 12, 2015 - 12:39am PT
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Bump
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Gnome Ofthe Diabase
climber
Out Of Bed
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May 12, 2015 - 06:36am PT
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SHEESE!!
this just adds to my shakin' ness! thanx for the big bump.
I tie back up knots when I can but on the steep stuff it is hard to do.
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MH2
Boulder climber
Andy Cairns
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May 12, 2015 - 09:41am PT
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I tie back up knots when I can but on the steep stuff it is hard to do.
I had that problem, too. Then I saw a guide climbing a steep route. He transferred his weight from rock to belay device whenever he wanted to tie a back-up knot. Pretty smart idea. All I had to do was give up reluctance to hang on a route in favor of safety.
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Big Mike
Trad climber
BC
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May 12, 2015 - 10:06am PT
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I run a prussik above mine.
Then i just slide it up if i'm sketch about a move. Apparently this device will cut the rope around 4kn. According to this report. http://www.hse.gov.uk/research/crr_pdf/2001/crr01364.pdf
The test they did was a factor two fall on a 1-meter static lanyard. I clip directly to the device with a belaymaster with the small side on the ushba. That is why i think the prussik is smart, because if the device fails to catch, the prussik would before the ushba had a chance to re-engage and cut the rope.
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Roots
Mountain climber
Tustin, CA
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May 12, 2015 - 10:38am PT
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I used to use the Yates Rocker..Similar to the USHBA Basic and a couple of times I fell longer than I preferred to before it caught the rope. Once it did not at all, but thankfully I had a prusik for back up.
Petzl Mini Traxion has not let me down in the past 8 years or so.
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thebravecowboy
climber
The Good Places
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Oct 19, 2018 - 10:29am PT
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anyone care to vouch for, rail against, etc., any particular use or application of this spring-camming death machine?
digression: I accept that someday I will die. It will be my own death and no one else can have it.
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