Werner was an ex-SS officer

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Lovegasoline

Trad climber
Sh#t Hole, Brooklyn, NY
Nov 24, 2005 - 10:35pm PT
My father is still alive and kicking and doing quite well. He's 85 years old.
He never talks about his past, his experiences during the war ... I had to grill him to get his story, and even then it was with great reluctance that he told it. I do remember as a very young child running my hands across his back and exploring his bullet wounds. His story has been documented.
Patrick Sawyer

climber
Originally California now Ireland
Topic Author's Reply - Nov 25, 2005 - 04:57am PT
Wow, is that Lee Marvin (smoking a pipe) on the right a couple of rows back from Kennedy?

Raj, you should calm down, you’re getting a bit emotional.

“Unless one of your relatives died in the Holocaust, you should shut the f-ck up!”

May I suggest that before you tell somebody to shut the f-ck up, that perhaps you ask them first if they had relatives who suffered in the Holocaust.

And anyway, Lovegasoline is correct, you don’t have to have personal ties with a tragic event in order to comment on it.

“However, the title is wrong because Wernher von Braun was never in the military for any country…. Also, von Braun was never in the military. He was a private contractor with the Nazi rocket program.”

So first you are saying that he wasn’t in the SS, but then in a later statement (below) you acknowledge that he was. And you are telling me to get my facts right? LOL.

“He worked with Jewish engineers in America, and they felt no discomfort working next to his side. They also knew he was part of the SS.

Raj, why did you delete your first post on this thread? The one that said ‘no sh-it Sherlock. That is not new news’ or something to that effect.

I have to say that given your behavior on this thread, I have to wonder how you got into MIT.

Lovegasoline, very interesting (and sad) tale about your father.
mellpat

Big Wall climber
Sweden
Nov 25, 2005 - 05:12am PT
Why this fascination with the SS in Germany 60-70 years ago? I suppose being an elected member to that honorary guard to Hitler was more like being elected for membership to Rotary in our days.

European history is really complicated and stereotypes are not much help. At a recent visit to Kiev, the capital of Ukraine, I noticed that the street stands offered a large variety of Hitler statuettes (did not buy any). I think you would serve time ("Incitement to racial hatred") if you were trying to sell those in Germany or Sweden. But Stalin was definitely a more vicious ruler for ethnic Ukrainians than Hitler, so it figures. I guess.
JuanDeFuca

Big Wall climber
Northern Mexico
Nov 25, 2005 - 05:16am PT
http://www.clavius.org/techlmstab.html
TradIsGood

Trad climber
Gunks end of country
Nov 25, 2005 - 05:42am PT
mellpat

Big Wall climber
Sweden
Nov 25, 2005 - 05:57am PT
Yeahh, that stupid fish would know how to avoid a trolling bait. But we like images of trolls in Scandinavia. Ever heard of the Troll Wall? http://www.bigwalls.net/climb/Troll.html

"In Scandinavian troll folklore the forest creatures are morally ambiguous, and don't constantly represent evil"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Troll


Incidentally, Wernher von Braun's, his colleagues and leadership fascination with huge rockets like V-2 was a good thing for the Allies. Had those large resources been diverted to small rockets (guided surface-to-air missiles, antitank missiles) or anything else of real military value, Nazi Germany would have lasted a few months longer, with "interesting" implications ...
LEB

climber
Glen Gardner
Nov 25, 2005 - 06:58am PT
TG,

I love that fish you posted. It is one of those deep-sea (below sunlight) types. I have been looking for photos of other such fish at this depth (there are a variety) Can you post the website wherein this image came from?

Here is another (somewhat famous) fish image which seems rather appropriate for what goes on here

[url=[/url" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://img181.imageshack.us/my.php?image=swollowedwhole2dg.jpg][/url]

[url=http://imageshack.us][img=http://img181.imageshack.us/img181/7890/swollowedwhole2dg.jpg][/url]

BTW this image skyrocketed the photographer to fame and netted him a good buck. It was a chance shot he caught in an acquarium but I think it very well describes the modus operandus here
TradIsGood

Trad climber
Gunks end of country
Nov 25, 2005 - 09:13pm PT
Lois - Are you talking to me? LOL.

I do not know where I got it. But you can find out.

(This is a secret that only a few people on ST have figured out, so please erase this post after reading it. I know you might not believe this, but many have posted various "where is this" quizzes, with the info contained clearly in the picture name. Especially do not tell them or they will misdirect us in the future.)

Right click on the image and click properties. The URL will be listed in the properties page.

TIG. (or Trad for short)
TradIsGood

Trad climber
Gunks end of country
Nov 25, 2005 - 09:16pm PT
LEB, btw. When you do that {url=...} thing, you have to put a quote at the beginning and the end of the url. {img} is different. There you just put the URL between the beginning tag and the ending tag {/img}. See the Help for examples.
LEB

climber
Glen Gardner
Nov 25, 2005 - 09:27pm PT
TG,

That is SOOOOO useful!!! I never knew that! However, I noticed that when I tried this same technique with the picture I posted, it simply refers back to imageshack. I am a bit confused at this point. I am under the impression that to post an image on a forum one has to go to a hosting site such as imageshack wherein they give you the url to use. I am somewhat confused as to how you are doing it. Are you saying that you are posting directly from your hard disk. Intuitively, that would not seem to make a lot of sense. Also I am thinking that the reason the forum requires persons to use web-hosting sites is for storage space reasons.

Please explain the difference to me with respect to how you are posting images and how I am doing so. BTW the respective fishes are very neat. I am hoping someday to get to the Monteray Bay aquarium to actually see the deep sea fish in question. I find the whole topic of deep oceanography and thermal vents quite interesting. For now Monteray is a VERY long way off. I was given the option of that or Olympic NP several years ago and chose Olympic.

PS also explain how you change a link such that it is words vs a url which appears in hypertext

Lois
TradIsGood

Trad climber
Gunks end of country
Nov 25, 2005 - 09:40pm PT
Click "Help", (It is below the window when you are posting). The url and img syntaxes are different. The {url="..."} identifies where the thing is. The stuff between the end of the beginning tag and the beginning of the end tag, is what gets underlined. For your first exercise, fix the your post above. Refer to the help page if necessary.

As far as why the images exist elsewhere ... space could be one reason, but I think it is just because they did not spend the bucks to add an image upload option to the site. The downside to this is many image links fail to work for things like bandwidth or permission restrictions. The upside is that many of the images are already stored on someones existing photo site.
LEB

climber
Glen Gardner
Nov 25, 2005 - 10:02pm PT
Trad,

Oh I think I understand what you are saying, now. I can't do what you suggested however (it would be a good exercise) because I downloaded the image to my hard disk a long time ago and don't remember the url. I am writing a multiple choice exam on physical assessment concepts right now and dying of boredom in the process.

Moreover, I just go blasted on another thread for reaching out to Kath because I strongly related to an emotion or two which she had expressed. Accordingly, I think I am going back to writing the exam. I am at the moment feeling very stung and wounded, as it were. She was so eloquently expressing what I was feeling at the moment. Perhaps I should be writing my exam and not screwing around here anyway. Will play with what you suggested with a different image. I think I understand the difference now. Do you know how to program?

Lois
Ouch!

climber
Nov 25, 2005 - 10:31pm PT
JuanDeFuca

Big Wall climber
Northern Mexico
Nov 25, 2005 - 10:50pm PT
I have read many books on WVB. When he started working on rockets for the military he had no idea slave labor would be used to build them. He knew the rockets were to be weapons.

WVB worked on the R and D. He was not responsible for manufacturing. WVB was always thinking of the moon.
He was one of the greatest mangers of all time.

V2's killed a few thousand. My dad heard the first one land a few miles from his home.

Was Oppie a war criminal.

Juan
TradIsGood

Trad climber
Gunks end of country
Nov 26, 2005 - 05:08am PT
Oh I think I understand what you are saying, now. I can't do what you suggested however (it would be a good exercise) because I downloaded the image to my hard disk a long time ago and don't remember the url.

If it were "only on your hard drive", the image would not show up here. And Raj showed an example for the setting up link to url in this thread. BTW. When you click on help, notice also that you can click on "View Original Message in a Separate Window".

I am writing a multiple choice exam on physical assessment concepts right now and dying of boredom in the process.

Just make all the answers c). Use stuff from ST for a,b,d. You will be amazed at how many wrong answers you will get. And it will save you time grading so you can get back to things you like. ;)
TradIsGood

Trad climber
Gunks end of country
Nov 26, 2005 - 05:14am PT
Credibility Gap - Wernher is not third from the left in that photo! Who is third from the left? Wernher is in the picture.
mellpat

Big Wall climber
Sweden
Nov 26, 2005 - 06:17am PT
Dr. Kurt Debus is third from the left. Robert McNamara or Wernher von Braun (with glasses) to the right?

http://grin.hq.nasa.gov/IMAGES/SMALL/GPN-2000-000616.jpg

Photo of Debus and von Braun in the link above.

I was in Chamonix, France in July 1969 with three climbing friends. We took a day off from the climbing and listened to the moon landing on the car radio.
TradIsGood

Trad climber
Gunks end of country
Nov 26, 2005 - 06:43am PT
McNamara is second from right. Out of focus to his right, may be Dean Rusk - not sure on that.
Bruce Morris

Social climber
Belmont, California
Nov 26, 2005 - 11:16am PT
Mellpat from Sweden asks: "Why this fascination with the SS in Germany 60-70 years ago?"

I think it's because US world hegemony evolved out of a synthesis of Nazi high-tech (ballistic missiles, stealth bombers, turbo-jets, nerve gas, etc.) and Jewish physics (i.e. Oppie, Los Alamos, and the Bomb)and even today we're still trying to wrestle with the moral and ethical paradoxes implicit in that fusion.

Werner's bargain with the devil is really our bargain, too. What price world empire?
Hootervillian

climber
the Ponderosa, NV
Nov 26, 2005 - 11:20am PT
I think it's because US world hegemony evolved out of a synthesis of Nazi high-tech (ballistic missiles, stealth bombers, turbo-jets, nerve gas, etc.) and Jewish physics (i.e. Oppie, Los Alamos, and the Bomb)and even today we're still trying to wrestle with the moral and ethical paradoxes implicit in that fusion.

it's a good thing for US we won.
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