Paradise Lost beta

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michaelj

Trad climber
San Francisco, CA
Topic Author's Original Post - Jul 14, 2010 - 09:31pm PT
I've heard it's been rebolted recently (thanks guys!). Any recent beta would be appreciated. Especially, if you need two ropes to rap and any gear suggestions. Thanks.
JEleazarian

Trad climber
Fresno CA
Jul 15, 2010 - 12:40am PT
If you're going to rap the route, I would definitely take two ropes -- though I should warn you that the last time I did that was in 1973. If you want to take just one, head over to the Powell-Reed ledges, although I suspect the "U"-Shaped Bowl is rather damp in spots.

John
John Vawter

Social climber
San Diego
Jul 15, 2010 - 01:05am PT
Mine's not fresh either. 1977. But I thought it was a good route with a variety of interesting climbing all the way up (7 pitches). I led pitches 3 and 6. I thought the step down on the 5.9 traverse was spookier than anything else below it on pitch 3. And leaving the shallow dihedral and committing to the .10a traverse on pitch 6 was the crux of the route for me mentally. I recall it seemed rather blank and hostile out there compared to the security of the corner.

JV
Largo

Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
Jul 15, 2010 - 01:25am PT
I only did it once, right after Rik and Ray did the FA, and was glad I had been climbing a lot at Suicide because those first few pitches, though not hard, had almost no pro. I also am with John that the traverse (right) was the crux but there's pro in the one inch crack down and left. Also, when I hear "rebolted," like what bolts are you talking about. I only remember a couple.

That route is full value for 5.10b, and is, or was, the kind of route where someone green on moderate runout slabs could talk a pretty serious ride.

JL
Clint Cummins

Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
Jul 15, 2010 - 02:20am PT
Yes, it was almost completely rebolted by Roger, after Chad and I fixed his ropes on it in May. However, Roger told me that when he was taking the ropes down, he noticed 2 bolts that he had missed! I don't recall exactly which ones, though - maybe he will post here, though.

Jim Beyer did a route a couple of years ago which intersected with part of p2 and p3, and he added some bolts there.

p1: clip the belay at (1) and continue partway up p2, belaying at Beyer's bolt belay where it says "poor pro" on the topo.
p2: climb up past the occasional single bolt (former belay at (2) is now a single bolt), fixed copperheads with stainless steel cable, and a fixed pin, to Beyer's 2 bolt belay (formerly single pro bolt) at the start of the right traverse shown in the topo).
p3+p4: traverse right, clip the belay at (3) and continue to (4)
p5: now follow topo - right traverse protects with a stopper, then there is a fixed pin at the bottom of the crack where it says 5.9.
p6: follow topo - up corner, traverse right. Hopefully Roger did not miss this bolt, as it's the 5.10a crux.
p7: follow topo.
Rappel with 2 ropes.
Karl Baba

Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
Jul 15, 2010 - 02:51am PT
Anybody done Beyer's route or know anything?

Did paradise lost once. A good route and not TOO hard as long as you don't make a mistake in climbing or routefinding. If you do, that's not good!!!!

Peace

Karl
k-man

Gym climber
SCruz
Jul 15, 2010 - 03:40am PT
Bruce and I had a funny experience on that route...We got up to the traverse, and got lost. Came down, then saw where it went, and went back up. I think we got to the pin in the crack, but it looked blank above, so we came down again. On the ground, we saw where it went again....You traverse way right, farther than you'd at first think. Fun climbing.
k-man

Gym climber
SCruz
Aug 24, 2011 - 02:14pm PT
Went back up on Paradise Lost a couple of days ago for a Birthday Climb. Oh boy, what fun.

Forgot to read this thread first, which would have been good. On the second pitch, I went up a bit & clipped the first bolt. After that a belay station comes too soon (about 50' out from the first belay), so I kept following the left-tending ramp. I didn't see any other bolts (the Paradise Lost belay), but did pass a copperhead or two.

After about 160', I found a R-facing flake which took good pro, so I belayed (I wasn't sure if I could make the next belay, which was another 40' up). I brought up Sharon, then climbed up to the belay, passing a green bolt.

The next pitch looked fairly short (100+'?), and had 4 green bolts and a copper head. We bailed, knowing we were off route.

On the ground, I found the following booty:

Booty! from Paradise Lost
Booty! from Paradise Lost
Credit: k-man

Could this be the 2nd belay for Paradise Lost? Looks like it was swept off the face by rock fall, although the base didn't show any fresh rock-fall scars.

Sleuthing at the base, I did find the new route, green bolts going up between the Powell/Reid and Paradise Lost. Must be Bayer's route? Looks good, anybody know the pitch grades?

So, some beta to whoever wants to go up there: For Paradise Lost, I'd climb the first 5.7 pitch, and continue on to the anchors for the new route. From there, make your way up Paradise Lost, but pay attention to where it exits off the Left-tending ramps.

Then report back! Cheers...
Fat Dad

Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
Aug 24, 2011 - 02:38pm PT
Good route. I did it back in '83 I think, back in the EB era. While I remember the traverse being the technical crux, it was really that poorly protected 5.9 section on the second or third pitch that always got my attention. When I did it, it was protected by a hammered in stopper or some other such mank.

Even earning my chops at Suicide, etc., it felt heady. It took a couple of visits to commit to the moves. If it's been rebolted then I say have at because I recall it being a great route. It would have garnered a lot more stars and attention in the guidebook if it had better pro. We rapped with two ropes.
WBraun

climber
Aug 24, 2011 - 02:41pm PT
Paradise Lost latest beta is ....

Go to the base and start climbing.

Nothing has changed .....
k-man

Gym climber
SCruz
Aug 24, 2011 - 02:47pm PT
Well actually, if you're looking for the second belay, it has changed. First it was two bolts, then (apparently) one, now (apparently) zero.

Other than that, I agree with Werner...



PS & FWIW. Looks like the 2nd bolt on Stoner's has gone AWOL...
Clint Cummins

Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
Aug 24, 2011 - 03:34pm PT
Kelly,

The confusion started when Beyer put in his route which overlapped p2-p3 and he changed the belays. Your high point was at "2", and from there the route goes down 3' and then straight to the right. The green bolts and copperhead above "2" are on Beyer's route.
Paradise Lost overlay p3-p6
Paradise Lost overlay p3-p6
Credit: xRez / CC
Paradise Lost overlay p1-p3
Paradise Lost overlay p1-p3
Credit: xRez / CC
Clint Cummins

Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
Aug 24, 2011 - 10:29pm PT
Some photos from May 2010, when Chad led it and we fixed Roger's ropes for rebolting.
Chad linking initial pitches on Paradise Lost <br/>
We belayed in the midd...
Chad linking initial pitches on Paradise Lost
We belayed in the middle of p2, where Beyer added a bolt belay where his route started overlapping with Paradise Lost, right where the topo first says "poor pro"
Credit: Clint Cummins
Paradise Lost p2+p3, right about at &#40;2&#41; on the topo.  There is...
Paradise Lost p2+p3, right about at (2) on the topo. There is pro on the "poor pro" section above - fixed heads, bolts and a fixed pin left by Beyer.
On a mission to fix ropes for Roger Brown's rebolting - May 2010
Credit: Clint Cummins
Paradise Lost - 5.9 traverse on p3 &#40;linked into p4&#41;. <br/>
We bela...
Paradise Lost - 5.9 traverse on p3 (linked into p4).
We belayed at the start of the traverse, where Beyer added a second bolt next to the p3 bolt to make a belay anchor (his route goes straight up there).
Credit: Clint Cummins
Paradise Lost - linking p3 traverse with 5.8 p4
Paradise Lost - linking p3 traverse with 5.8 p4
Credit: Clint Cummins
Paradise Lost - traverse that starts p5
Paradise Lost - traverse that starts p5
Credit: Clint Cummins
Paradise Lost - Chad starting p7 &#40;final pitch&#41;
Paradise Lost - Chad starting p7 (final pitch)
Credit: Clint Cummins
Paradise Lost - rapping down Roger's 630' static line. <br/>
For the next ...
Paradise Lost - rapping down Roger's 630' static line.
For the next few weeks, people were running up the route on minitraxion :-)
Credit: Clint Cummins
Mr_T

Trad climber
Northern California
Sep 12, 2011 - 08:27pm PT
Paradise Found!

We climbed up the to the beginning of what is now the start of the 3rd pitch before the rain rolled in. We got to where Beyer's route goes up, Paradise Lost splits to the right.

Question - that traverse out right looks like there is nil pro for 40-50' until you start up the 5.8. Which kind of sucks badly for the 2nd. Is there something in the corner in between?

Anyway - a super big thanks to all of the folks who put in for the re-bolt. The stuff we climbed so far was 4-5 star awesome!
Clint Cummins

Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
Sep 12, 2011 - 08:41pm PT
Cool, glad you had fun up there.

> Question - that traverse out right looks like there is nil pro for 40-50' until you start up the 5.8. Which kind of sucks badly for the 2nd. Is there something in the corner in between?

You can clip the old belay anchor at the end of the original p3; it's about 25' over on the traverse.
But more to the point, you will have 2 ropes for the rappels, so the follower should tie in to the second rope and the leader should not clip it through any of the lead protection. Same story on the next pitch. I was following on ascenders, so I essentially did this, by putting my ascenders on the haul line and swung across these traverses.
Mr_T

Trad climber
Northern California
Sep 12, 2011 - 09:09pm PT
Thanks. Great job on the re-bolt folks.
Clint Cummins

Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
Jun 24, 2013 - 11:45pm PT
Paradise Lost overlay p1-p3
Paradise Lost overlay p1-p3
Credit: xRez / CC
Tony,

I copied your post here, since the other thread is mostly about the Ho.
Jaywood and I climbed the first pitch of Paradise Lost before dark cragging over there this spring. The Reid topo is not right for the first pitch. There are not two bolts at the start of the first pitch off the crack at the pitch 1 belay as shown. The first move is sketchy and unprotected up through 5.9 protected by a couple of wires to get to the first bolt. The bolt is at the junction of two options shown to get to the 5.9 crack. The 2nd pitch belay is actually at the top of the 5.9 crack, at least that's where we found two new bolts.
Edit. So in looking at Clint's overlay (I think I have it right), Pitch 1 of the Reid guide is "a" on Clint's overlay and the second pitch belay I was refering to is Clint's pitch 1. I think you can stretch it out with a 60m but not sure.
"1" on my overlay is reachable from the ground with a 60m (there's a photo of Chad doing this in my post above).
Is that what you meant by "I think you can stretch it out with a 60m"?

Did you and Jay go higher than "1" in my overlay?

The old topo may show xx out left of "a", but I think that just means "a" is a 2 bolt belay; the bolts might not actually be out left.
wstmrnclmr

Trad climber
Bolinas, CA
Jun 25, 2013 - 01:16am PT
Clint,
Your right. The old Reid topo shows two belay bolts at "A" (capitol A) and A is known as Pee Pee Pillar in the Reid. I think the bolts at A in the Reid guide are up and right of your "a" at the top of the pillar (Possible that PL was a gear belay at your "a" as it was climbed two years earlier and PPP belay was installed later?). In the Reid guide, Paradise Lost P2 starts lower and left where your "a" is and is shown as pitch 1. There looks like two bolts directly left of pitch 1, one above the other in the Reid. There are no bolts there. Then the first bolt (not in Reid guide) on the route is at the third yellow dot up and left of "a" on your overlay at the convergence of two slanting ramps which is shown before the 5.9 crack. The Reid guide shows options (one going to the bottom of the crack and one going directly to the top of the crack). Jay took the ramp option to the bottom of the crack, climbed the crack and found two belay bolts at the top of the crack where your pitch 1 is on the overlay. They aren't in the Reid guide. We rappelled off there. So is your pitch 1 possibly a new belay? I know you guys are sticklers for replacing bolts in there existing locations so maybe someone set up raps? This is an interesting discussion because older routes were set up for 50's but climbs are now being retro'd for 60's? I start to get confused as I'm a "traditionalist" in the sense that I try to climb the routes true to the FA but the old topo's have been wrong,or changed? We've been on a few this spring that are different (Deep Throat on the GPA). Routes lost to time and alteration? Yes, the 60m stretch from ground to your pitch one was what I was wondering about. We climbed it per the Reid guide. I wish I was a better writer. Hopefully this is clear.
wstmrnclmr

Trad climber
Bolinas, CA
Jun 25, 2013 - 01:47am PT
First pitch Paradise Lost.
First pitch Paradise Lost.
Credit: wstmrnclmr
As best as I can remember.......
Clint Cummins

Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
Jun 25, 2013 - 02:12am PT
Tony,

Thanks for explaining about the 2 bolts where the climb leaves the 5.7 corner at (1) in the Meyers/Reid topo.
Now that I have that topo in front of me, I agree they look like pro bolts
and not belay bolts. I didn't see them when I did the climb with Chad;
I'm not sure what happened to them, assuming the topo was accurate at one time.

climbed the crack and found two belay bolts at the top of the crack where your pitch 1 is on the overlay. They aren't in the Reid guide. We rappelled off there. So is your pitch 1 possibly a new belay? I know you guys are sticklers for replacing bolts in there existing locations so maybe someone set up raps?
Those belay bolts were added by Jim Beyer, when he did a partially new route which starts directly below, then overlaps with Paradise Lost starting at that 5.9 crack (second half of p2 and first half of p3 on the Meyers/Reid topo).
My posts and overlays on this thread describe this Beyer route.
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