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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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I was looking around yesterday, and saw a couple of different general options- a single, large fan that fits in between 24" rafter spaces, with louvers on the inside- these are rated to 1000 - 6000 cfm. They are either direct drive (noisier) or belt driven- didn't see any kind of insulation for them.
The other option was two smaller fans side-by-side, with insulated 'doors' that flip up (inside the attic) when the fan was activated. They were rated at less air movement (up to 1500 cfm or so), but quieter, insulated, and though it takes a little longer to refresh the air, the quiet & insulation are attractive.
This latter option might make more sense in terms of exhaust removal and attic venting?
Or....would a thermostatically controlled exhaust fan be used in addition to the whole house fan? Does it have to be cut into the exterior wall, or can it be mounted inside of the gable vent? (I can get power up there.)
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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would a thermostatically controlled exhaust fan be used in addition to the whole house fan?
Actually you might want to try just the thermostatic one first without the
hassle of the whole house. You might be pleasantly (and cheaply!) surprised.
If it doesn't do it for you then you're not really out anything as it will
only improve the function of the whole house and it will certainly do the
job on those days when the whole house really is overkill but the attic does
get warm enough to add a few degrees to the downstairs. You can put them
either in the gable end or on the roof as close to the ridge as possible.
It is usually easier to put them on the roof as no framing or siding has to be disturbed.
As to which kind of whole house I would tend toward the quieter model especially
if you've already put in the attic fan. Those big ones sound like a bloody
helo winding up.
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Hmmm. The house has two stories, and while the upstairs gets a helluva lot warmer, the downstairs is also uncomfortably warm on some summer days. I'm not sure a simple attic fan is going to vent enough heat to make the downstairs noticeably cooler. Seems like a whole house fan would quickly suck that warm air right out, including the downstairs. Here's what I was looking at yesterday (the latter of the aforementioned options):
http://www.tamtech.com/HV1600-R38-Insulated-Whole-House-Fan_p_92.html
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steve shea
climber
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Finished and sold my last project, a '58 Porsche Speedster. Now onto an early 911. A '67 911S. One of about 1200 built, one of the first delivered to the US and owned by a former factory race driver. It has a six pack of Italian Webers, 46IDAs. Fast, not quick. No torque but fast in the twisties.5 speed. Just under or at 2000lbs and 220hp! 10hp per 100lbs on a koni suspension, gonna be fun if I do not sell.
I try to do most everything but the final metal work and paint. Some of it is on the job training but that is what the factory manuals are for. Engines and transmissions are fun, metal work, blocking and painting not so much.
In my travels as a ski rep, I constantly had my eyes peeled for old VW and Porsche projects, '73 or older. I found seven in Montana alone. But it is slim picking now, the old air cooled market is uber hot.
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Brandon-
climber
The Granite State.
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I took my camera for a swim so no photos, but I'm seeing cedar shakes in my sleep. I've been siding with them for a month now. Three weeks to go...
In all honesty, it's pretty fun. The homeowner is the most anal I've ever encountered. Our tolerances are +- 1/32'' and every rabbet on the trim is beveled to seat properly. All things I appreciate, but time equals money and it's unusual to be given the time to truly fuss over the smallest of details.
Nice work everyone, hope you are enjoying spring and not working too much!
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StefanS
Trad climber
Leavenworth WA
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Hey Apogee
There are a couple things to consider beside a fan.
Does the roof have eave vents with a vent space continuous to the ridge vent. Ideally this will vent from lowest to highest. In older houses the rafters usually have a birdsmouth at there bearing, and insulation is stuffed in and blocks the flow up.
Also how much insulation is in the attic. Could you add to it.
I have found that gable end vents dont do much to vent the hot air from attics.
Is your second floor the same size as the first?
If you want to use mechanical venting, there are some solar powered fan vents that are like roof jacks. You could have several of these spread out along the roof near the ridge. If you did this make the gable vent larger
You might also want to check with your electric supplier, sometimes they have incentives for energy saving projects.
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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"Does the roof have eave vents with a vent space continuous to the ridge vent."
"Is your second floor the same size as the first? "
Not that vent the attic space, no. The rafter bay spaces are open to the ridge vent.
The original house is essentially a 25' square footprint, with an upstairs space that is about 25' x 12', and a 12-12 roof pitch that results in 3' knee walls (on the roof side) in the upstairs space. It's old construction (~1942) with 2x4 roof rafters 24" oc. The attic is above this, which means the bay spaces are not continuous to the eaves.
"Also how much insulation is in the attic. Could you add to it."
I think there is R38 in the space directly above the upstairs room, but nothing in the attic rafter bay spaces.
"I have found that gable end vents dont do much to vent the hot air from attics."
Doesn't seem like to do much here, either.
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Brandon-
climber
The Granite State.
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To add to that, a roof with soffit vents, ridge vents, AND gable end vents will last for a shorter period of time and remove moisture less effectively than either gable end vents or a soffit/ridge system.
Or so I've been told...
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BLUEBLOCR
Social climber
joshua tree
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Eve vents are illegal anymore. Fire hazard! Same with soffit vents:-(
AP are you doin the work?
That fan in ur link is puny. And 1600cfm for $750. I'd say nay. You can get a fart fan to do that much work for 100.
Home depot has a whole house fan I'm thinking moves 6000 cfms for 250. It's a relatively a small motor that cost pennies to operate. Most of the noise you hear is the volumes of air that's moving! And that's why their good!! Your creating a breeze. So much that it will slam the doors closed. On top of that (literally) is that moves all the hot air OUT of ur attic space. Sounds like you should be pretty good with the ridge venting, and the two gable vents you already have. Youd never want to use ducting though. The main idea is to move ALL the air in the ENTIRE house and attic. Then, it's pertinent to where you put the fan and which window you have open to draw the draft.
Hope this helps
Edit. In the case you don't have enough venting, it pretty easy to add a couple more gable vents over the top of the existing ones. Or make those taller 1'x2'. Remember, caulk and paint makes the framer that he ain't ;-)
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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"Home depot has a whole house fan I'm thinking moves 6000 cfms for 250."
Yeah, I've seen them...they seem overkill for this little house (~1000 sf in the original house), and everything I've heard is that they are noisier than heck. And not insulated (that I could discern)- that's a big deal, as we get colder winters.
Yep, I'll do all the work myself. This project has been going on nearly 14 years, and I've done 95% of the work. Labor of love (or obsessive stupidity!).
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BLUEBLOCR
Social climber
joshua tree
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You got 2 stories though. It gonna take some pulling power.
My brother hops up in the attic and just lays a pile of insulation over the hole. Along with stuffing some in the vent holes. Makes a huge difference for keeping the warm air in.
I didn't notice it to be that loud. Maybe like a clothes dryer..
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Hmmm...that insulation idea is elegantly simple & attractive. There's attic access very close to where the fan would be located- it would be very easy to seasonally poke up there and pull an insulation blanket over the fan.
The fan would be located in the ceiling of the hallway/stair that leads to the upstairs bedroom. Relatively unobtrusive, and the entrance is fairly central to the downstairs...heated air tends to move up it like a chimney. Should be an optimal place for a fan.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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I put one of those big ones in once and I wouldn't let a small child walk
beneath it. I think the one in your link will be a lot quieter and do the
job nicely especially if you put the thermostatically controlled fan on
the roof. Did I mention how loud it was? Oh, yeah, just wanted to make sure.
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Bushman
Social climber
Elk Grove, California
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Maybe 30 hrs to go on this build but still have to;
Find and install pilot.
Cut and pre-fit canopy.
Pre-fit ailerons, aileron clevises, and linkages.
Cover fuse, control surfaces, and wing.
Install servos, pushrods, clevises, and linkages.
Install fuel tank with fuel lines.
Install engine and cowling.
Install radio, switch, and battery.
Set up trims and throws on control surfaces manually and with radio.
Check balance.
Run in engine.
Test fly and final trim.
Break in engine and practice.
Next race in Redding, June 27 & 28...
The Flyin' Ash Fast Warbird Race
Maybe I'll have it done in a couple of more weekends.
My paying job is taking precedent right now. I am shorthanded at work and down to one employee, my tree climber. I have not been up in the trees for a few years and never thought I would have to climb again but I am managing just fine with my tree climber working on the ground.
It saves my lower back not to be working on the ground lifting logs which destroys my lower back even further, so it's easier to climb, but my tree climber is awesome and can do the job of two ground persons. Still, I would rather have the crew doing all the work, but such is life, baby!
Only about eight more years of this tree service contracting business to go before I can afford to retire.
Ha ha.
In the meanwhile it's great to have a job. But there are going to be a lot more model airplanes flying around after I retire.
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tolman_paul
Trad climber
Anchorage, AK
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Bushman, what are the engine specs for the warbird?
Been several years since I've done RC, plan to get back into sailplanes one of these days.
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ruppell
climber
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Built this pergola last summer. The triangular design fits really well into the corner of the fence line. The bench is topped with 12x12 sealed terra cotta tile. Hidden under the bench is storage for my mower and weed wacker. All in all it's been a pretty nice addition to the backyard.
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tolman_paul
Trad climber
Anchorage, AK
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YS 115 four strokes stroke glow engine, preferred racing engine for our bracket.
Nice! I remember when the YS 60's ruled the roost in pattern, they make great aero engines. So have 4-stroke glow engines surplanted the two-smokes?
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