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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Topic Author's Original Post - Nov 13, 2005 - 02:28pm PT
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Last weekend (11/5&6/05) I was out with my favorite Obscurista doing a route on Parkline Slabs... and on a low energy Sunday at Reed's... "Andy's Inferno" which is a sandbag 5.7 not in any guide book since Roper's.
Andy's Inferno pg. 52
I, 5.7. Sheridan Anderson and others, 1964. This route lies on the east
side of a block which is located almost directly above the westernmost of
the two short tunnels near Reed Pinacle. Seen from the road below the Iota,
the route is clear and involves a right-curving crack. After two short pitches
in the crack, climb a right-facing open book (5.7).
This is a climb which is in plain sight from the Reed's pullout... yet no one seems to have done it (recently... I know of only one party, and I was up with one of them). I led and failed ot pull the crux, which is "sort of" an offwidth. From what I have heard about Sheridan Anderson, it is an unlikely FA.. so my guess is that and others played a larger role in the FA then would be indicated... also, I think the rating is sandbagged, but I'm just getting back into Valley climbing after a glorious summer in Tuolumne Meadows... and I ain't proud.
Anyone done it?
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 13, 2005 - 02:34pm PT
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OK, more on the obscurity rating
first mention: http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.html?topic_id=42866#msg42869
in that thread coiler states: I cant take all the credit for the Obscurity scale. It was started about 6 years ago with Ben "Benwa" Zartman, Jay"Shaggy" Selvidge, Brian "Mr. Way" Knight and myself. We were all on the quest to find the least traveled routes. the scale worked something like this:
O0 being routes that are in the guidebook,usualy right next to something that gets done too much, like "Lemon" at sunnyside bench. It's the route you do when the old classic is crowded.
O1 is the route at the cliff thats in the guidebook but nobody does, like, "inner reaches".
O2 it's in the guide book and it still never gets done, I mean never. A good example of O2 is "Alley cat" on middle cathedral.
O3, it's in the guidebook still, but nobody knows much about it, but Tucker Tech has done it; ex:"Phantom Pinnacle", or the "Flakes" on middle cathedral.
O4 routes, they aren't in the guidebook but it's on the obscurist's tick list ,like "Via Aqua" or "church Tower".
O5 routes, Little is know, but the consensus among obscurist's is that it IS there. Record shows there have been ascents. an O5 could be something like, "Spireview point" or Pohono pinnacle".
O6 is getting tricky, It's definately not in the guidebook, and little is known about it. No know ascents among the Obscurists' circuit, "Willow th'-whisp" is a great example of this. Lynea Anderson and I have made several forays into the area of obscurity looking for it. Still we've never found it.
O7 like I said is a route that doesn't exist anymore or maybe never did. Like "promulgated pinnacle" (which fell over in '98) or "Werner's Crack" which fell off in '97.
In that same thread, Karl Baba adds a "quality rating" Q followed by a number of stars....
My obscurity rating for Andy's Inferno would be O2 Q*, it will be down rated once it cleans up (the GI Joe on-your-belly-elbow crawl is priceless, especially in the lichen).
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k-man
Gym climber
SCruz
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Nov 13, 2005 - 04:13pm PT
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Obscurity Scale, that's great.
The Reid guide can be helpful weeding these out--it lists all the know first ascents, I believe, even if they're not otherwise in the guide.
Take, for example, Cascase Crack, FA listed as "Unknown, early 1970s".
We know it's there, but now the trick is to find it!
:- k
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scuffy b
climber
S Cruz
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Nov 14, 2005 - 11:48am PT
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I watched a couple friends climb Andy's Inferno
in 1973. I (slightly injured) scrambled around
and met them at the top. There was a summit
register with an original Sheridan illustration.
I hope you found it and signed in.
steve m
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 14, 2005 - 11:51am PT
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holy shizzle... I didn't think to look... now I have to do that bastard again!
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cintune
climber
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Nov 14, 2005 - 11:55am PT
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This is a great thread title.
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Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California now Ireland
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Nov 14, 2005 - 12:10pm PT
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Gotta say, Sheridan was a pretty good illustrator/artist in my opinion. I enjoyed his work. Wonder what he is up to?
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scuffy b
climber
S Cruz
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Nov 14, 2005 - 03:22pm PT
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Unfortunately, Patrick, like a few others you've asked about,
Sheridan is deceased. A lot of us wonder what he is up to.
Sorry.
steve m
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John Vawter
Social climber
San Diego
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Nov 14, 2005 - 04:04pm PT
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If there is an original Anderson drawing in a can down at Reed's(highly unlikely at this late date), someone should remove it and donate it to whoever is working on the climber's museum before it ends up in a private collection.
If you get an urge to start fly fishing, check out Anderson's Curtis Creek Manifesto.
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scuffy b
climber
S Cruz
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Nov 14, 2005 - 04:15pm PT
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Well, it's actually a pretty obscure location.
Something like a peanut butter jar as I recall.
Sheridan as devil.
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Melissa
Gym climber
berkeley, ca
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Coiler or Ben,
If you're still reading this stuff...
I don't understand the nuances that seperate O2 and O3. Is it that one is likely to have passed Alley Cat without intending to climb it that it's merely O2?
And at 07, is any distinction made between climbs that were popular before they disappeared and those that were obscure and have since falled off.
What about climbs, former classics or obscurities, that probably still exist although perhaps in a state that has been altered by catastrophic rock fall with no reported post-catastrophe ascents?
It's all so complicated...
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TradIsGood
Trad climber
Gunks end of country
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Did Werner Heisenberg originate the obscurity rating?
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Rhodo-Router
Trad climber
Otto, NC
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If an obscurity is observed, or even known of, it is by definition less obscure. I think the Obscurity Principle states this. It's one of Heisenberg's lesser-known (ahem, obscure) ideas.
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TradIsGood
Trad climber
Gunks end of country
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Thought so. I think it was something like ΔO ΔF ≤ h,
where O is obscurity and F is frequency of climbs per unit time. Just do not remember for sure what h is here though.
There is a management one too. Measuring a performance metric of a working population disturbs the measurement in such a way that over a short period of time all measurements equilibrate at the value desired by management. Its corollary - the belief in the accuracy of the measurement is inversely proportional to the height in the management heirarchy.
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 7, 2005 - 11:13am PT
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this is the year of Physics... the 100th anniversary of Einstein's annus mirabilis
so a more appropriate principal:
The Principle of Dilbert Equivalence:
at every management level in an arbitrary organization it is possible
to choose a “locally inertial management system” such that, within a
sufficiently small region of the organizational chart, a particular manager
believes that he/she is Dilbert.
Because management is a quantum theory, there are implications of having a quantum theory of management gravity... I'll be looking forward to an invitation to pick up an IgNobel prize next year...
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ablegabel
Trad climber
Livermore,Ca.
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When your ready Ed, I've got some obscuritys for you!
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TradIsGood
Trad climber
Gunks end of country
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Ed, that is really old school. Management is a part of chaos theory. But those prizes are handed out so far after the fact, you probably are still in the running.
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lucho
Trad climber
San Francisco
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Ablegabel? You are the master of obscurities! Wow, I cant believe you're even on supertacos.
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ablegabel
Trad climber
Livermore,Ca.
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Lucho,good to hear from you.Sorry to hear you've got a broken bone.What did you do? As far as me being on ST, I'm just keeping an eye on the rest of the world from the underground...New Obscuritys,coming soon !!!
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 9, 2005 - 04:06pm PT
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I am willing and able, Gabel, to embark on any production of obscure routes...
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lucho
Trad climber
San Francisco
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Ablegabel, I was attempting a new free route on Liberty Cap, on rappell the second day up there we dislodged some rocks after one of our ropes got caught and pulled harder to free it. Doh! One of the stones fell on my clavicle breaking it.
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coiler
Trad climber
yosemite
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Dec 10, 2005 - 12:18pm PT
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Yes, the summit register on "Andy's inferno" is still there. I found it waiting for 120 to open last winter, searching for new routes. Grant Hiskes and I ended upputting up a new route to the left of the "Inferno" called "Blow sunshine up your a*#" 5.8+. Sandbagged in the tradition of the "inferno".
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 10, 2005 - 12:33pm PT
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coiler - ablegable had me up there earlier (the initial thread post) but we didn't have enough inspiration to go up your new route... though it looked especially nice once we negotiated the approach (which I think is the crux of those routes).
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Jaybro
Social climber
The West
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Dec 10, 2005 - 03:28pm PT
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So, then, is Realm of the Lizrd King 02+ ?
I only know of three ascents, but it's been a while.
TT hadn't done it, last I looked.
I Love obscurities.
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WBraun
climber
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Dec 10, 2005 - 04:25pm PT
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Jaybro
I lead the Realm of the Lizard King on second ascent. What is it rated?
I straight jammed it.
What is 02+ mean?
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 27, 2007 - 01:36am PT
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on Andy's Inferno (see above for Roper's description)...
Ken should go up and get the register, it's falling apart and some of the pages are lost (alas, most of the cartoon that Sheridan Anderson drew on the first ascent entry is gone) but there is still good history there... and it won't be much longer as the paper is dried and brittle and probably acid based.
But just as a tease (I've got to get to bed for climbing tomorrow), here is an entry concerning our own scuffy b, beaming in from the wayback machine... I'll post more later...
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Jay Wood
Trad climber
Fairfax, CA
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Oct 27, 2007 - 03:01am PT
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Curtis Creek Manifesto- In the top five best how-to books IMO. Worth reading even if you don't fish.
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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Oct 27, 2007 - 11:27am PT
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Most of what I do is O1-O3 these days, that's a fun scale.
'Lead the dyno on Phantom Pinnacle, but the rest of the route was so loose and lichen infested we (Dimitri Barton & me) just bailed and took a nap at the base before going all the way down.
'Been doing obscure Kor/Kor era routes out here in the CO crags. On any given day at the crags, I'm either climbing solo, roping up with a buddy, but either way, no one else anywhere in sight.
We call it the "Obscure Tour".
I learned that habit from Al Bartlett.
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Doug Robinson
Trad climber
Santa Cruz
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Oct 27, 2007 - 12:33pm PT
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I did the FA of Andy's Inferno with Sheridan. Keep wanting to go back and see what we did (sieve memory -- I think it kinda coils right, around the corner -- don't recall difficulty). Sheridan was definitely the impetus, found the climb. Delighted in obscurities. Perhaps he is their patron saint?
Someday when I get brave enough to relearn the scanner I'll post up a Sheridan thread. Have a bunch of his art that arrived on envelopes.
The Curtis Creek Manifesto has been called the best text on fly fishing. Without a pole, I've made pilgrimage. Have a box of flies tied by the master.
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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Oct 27, 2007 - 12:43pm PT
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We look forward to a Sheridan thread DR!
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Doug Robinson
Trad climber
Santa Cruz
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Oct 27, 2007 - 01:12pm PT
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Monday I hung a TR on Chingando, a scant hundred yards from Andy's Inferno, while giving a crack climbing seminar at the AMGA annual meeting in Yosemite. (Lotta non-granite guides like a little no-intimidation intro to the Valley, so I set TRs on Reeds etc.)
Some of them got to wearing a 5.Tennie on the right foot for heel-toe and a smearing shoe on the left. That led me to recall a story of my FA in the Winds soon after Andy's Inferno. I named it in honor of Sheridan's drunken campfire suggestion for Obscure Route Beta: "This climb requires an extra left klettershoe." It's a proud OW, of course, running 4"-6" up the crux dihedral, 5 pitches up the East Face of Sundance Pinnacle, dubbed Andy's Only Extra Left Klettershoe Chimney.
This fine line, visible to everyone toiling up Big Sandy Pass toward the Cirque, was immediately set on the road to Obscurity by Orrin Bonney, idiot author of the then-guidebook, by his shortening it to "Klettershoe Chimney." Joe Kelsey's guide, otherwise so eloquent, drove the stake into its obscure heart by shifting it again to "East Face, Right." At least he boosted my 5.8 rating to 5.9.
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 29, 2007 - 01:23am PT
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DR here you are
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 29, 2007 - 01:30am PT
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and the second ascent by Sheridan Anderson and Loyd Price
the note says:
"Sheridan Anderson V.Y.S.
Loyd Stubby Price
5 September 1965
(In the year of the Chipmunk 8047)
Second ascent by two innocent and unskillful climbers of the Vulgarian Youth Section conned into it by the leader of the first ascent who walked up the descent route kibitzing and subsequently was carried off the summit unconscious. He passed out from laughing when a jammed nut would not disjamb on the last pitch - "
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 29, 2007 - 01:34am PT
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Molly Higgins and Barb Eastman, 1st all female ascent
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Jaybro
Social climber
The West
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Oct 29, 2007 - 01:34am PT
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i had to read the whole thread to remember what 02+ meant; nobody hardly has done it, three ascents that I know of, and Tucker never climbed it, I think.
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 29, 2007 - 01:37am PT
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Grant Hiskes, Kevin ?, Danette Pierce
who's first time? and what year??
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 29, 2007 - 01:41am PT
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Allan Bartlett and Don Reid
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 29, 2007 - 01:50am PT
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Rick Sylvester, solo
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 29, 2007 - 01:52am PT
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3rd ascent, Tom Gerughty, Dan Baker and Mike Milligan...
4th Roger Derryberry and Ted ?
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Barbarian
Trad climber
all bivied up on the ledge
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Oct 29, 2007 - 02:09am PT
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Does anyone ever climb "Tiny Tim" anymore? It may be a O0.
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Melissa
Gym climber
berkeley, ca
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Oct 29, 2007 - 12:04pm PT
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It's been on my list for a while...Kind of scared of what will happen.
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Doug Robinson
Trad climber
Santa Cruz
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Oct 29, 2007 - 01:08pm PT
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Thanks ED, for photoing those old pages to...uh...preserve the Obscurity.
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Mungeclimber
Trad climber
sorry, just posting out loud.
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Oct 29, 2007 - 01:30pm PT
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kewl stuff
love the question mark and exclamation combo... "5.7?!"
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Mungeclimber
Trad climber
sorry, just posting out loud.
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Jan 17, 2011 - 12:59am PT
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bumping this after rereading the obscurity scale on clint's site.
I have done an O11
I'm rather glad for that oddly enough.
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Jan
Mountain climber
Okinawa, Japan
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Jan 17, 2011 - 01:04pm PT
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This thread brings back a lot of memories! Many of Sheridan's obscurities were done the summer I lived in Camp 4 with my arm in a cast. I'd forgotten their names but hearing them again, brings back memories of the parties we had to celebrate them afterward. Andy's Inferno provoked a particularly good one as I recall? Maybe Doug can remember it too?
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M. Volland
Trad climber
Grand Canyon
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Feb 10, 2011 - 01:41pm PT
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Loggerhead Ledge Route 5.7 O1
Well worth your time and effort. The route takes you to a huge ledge. Good rappel chains on top, and you can reach to within 5ft above the ground by rapping twice with one 70m rope.
The 5.7 rating is reasonable.
Jason Price and I enjoyed this one on a hot day, summer 2008.
http://www.mountainproject.com/v/california/yosemite_national_park/yosemite_valley/106612628
Barbarian - I have been looking at Tiny Tim for a long while now. I think it would be a solid O1, as it sees WAY less traffic than Lemon which is the benchmark for O0. Since we are discussing that area, you should check out Sunnyside Pinnacle .10a O1. I feel its a solid O1 eventhough it is 10ft from jamcrack's first pitch, because nobody ever does it. Bring a nut tool on lead to clean out the .10a fingers above the tree. Also, I slung the tree for pro on this one simular to Tree Route and Ugly Duckling. Enjoy!!!
http://www.mountainproject.com/v/california/yosemite_national_park/yosemite_valley/106612702
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nutjob
Trad climber
Berkeley, CA
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Feb 10, 2011 - 04:35pm PT
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Via Aqua shouldn't be an 04 because it's in the 1987 blue (aqua!) Yosemite Climbs. But it's definitely a classic!
Here's your only fixed pro on the route:
And I just posted this up on the stemming thread:
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M. Volland
Trad climber
Grand Canyon
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Feb 10, 2011 - 05:25pm PT
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Nut, I think you are right about Via Aqua:
O2 it's in the guide book and it still never gets done, I mean never. A good example of O2 is "Alley cat" on middle cathedral.
O3, it's in the guidebook still, but nobody knows much about it, but Tucker Tech has done it; ex:"Phantom Pinnacle", or the "Flakes" on middle cathedral.
O4 routes, they aren't in the guidebook but it's on the obscurist's tick list ,like "Via Aqua" or "church Tower".
Via Aqua Should slide from O4 to O3 based on the fact that it is in a guide book. I would argue that it gets done more than what Coiler benchmarked as O3. That being Phantom Pinnacle and The Flakes. With that said, I think it should slide down to O2. (IMO)
By the way, what did you think of the step over on the approach to Via Aqua? Remember, that airy corner. Jason Price and I actually roped up for that step.
For anything to be rated O3, you must have a list of what Tucker has climbed. Coiler says, "Ask him." Which is understandable. This is all for fun anyway. Maybe Clint could make up a list on his website of all of Tucker's ticks. (hint hint)
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nutjob
Trad climber
Berkeley, CA
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Feb 10, 2011 - 05:32pm PT
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MV, that 3rd class approach is certainly an attention getter! The first time we tried it, were so spooked about it that we backed off and did a first ascent instead! The funny part about that is we ended up rapping the Aqua Mist chimney in the dark and doing this step-across in the dark, when we were already in a walk-off position up higher (end of Aqua Mist) and didn't know it!
Some pics on the second time we went there, actually reaching the proper Via Aqua:
My buddy after the "3rd class" step-across
Me on the first part of the step-across:
And the second part:
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kev
climber
A pile of dirt.
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Feb 10, 2011 - 05:52pm PT
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Yeah Via Aqua sees some traffic, err, um, well, I know of people who've done it but then again I hang out with a rough crowd. I'd say O2
There are many good uns - Phantom Pinnacle, Cat Pinnacle, Leaning Tower Traverse, all come to mind - guessing all O2-3ish. All fun to (except the jigsaw puzzle loose plates on the last pitch of Phantom Pinnacle.
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M. Volland
Trad climber
Grand Canyon
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Feb 10, 2011 - 07:09pm PT
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kev
Do you know anyone who has done Tiny Tim?
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kev
climber
A pile of dirt.
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Feb 10, 2011 - 07:11pm PT
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Tim
I bet Eric has (ablegable) but not off the top of my head.
Scuffy, have you done it?
kev
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nutjob
Trad climber
Berkeley, CA
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Feb 10, 2011 - 07:20pm PT
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What about Ramblin' Rose?
That one gets me sweaty in the knickers, but haven't gone for it yet.
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Batrock
Trad climber
Burbank
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Feb 10, 2011 - 07:31pm PT
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My son bought the Curtis Creek Manifesto a year ago, he's 10 years old and after reading the manifesto he saved his allowance and bought a fly tying set up and now ties his own fly's and is pretty good at it. We fly fish a lot of small streams in the Sierra and the White Mountains east of Bishop, my son has incorporated many of the manifesto's techniques on sneaking up on the unwitting fishies. You cant just wade out in your hip boots to catch these sneaky little bastards.
Thanks Sheridan for a great little book and for getting my son hooked.
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scuffy b
climber
Three feet higher
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Feb 10, 2011 - 07:32pm PT
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No, Kev, I haven't done Tiny Tim.
I think really I'm not much of an obscurista.
Sunnyside Bench Lieback Route, though, that's not totally popular,
I believe.
I've never climbed After Five, which sort of got this discussion rolling
a while back, but I have climbed Elusion, which is obscure enough that
although it's in the guidebook Meyers got the name wrong even though it
was published in Ascent (he calls it The Illusion).
There's one at Manure Pile that's not in the book that I've done a good
many times since 1972 or 73.
Tapioca. Follows a discontinuous crack. The face next to it got bolted
maybe 10 years ago, one of the bolts is maybe a foot away from the key
protection on Tapioca, which happens to be one of the best nut placements
I've ever used. One pitch, walk on, walk off.
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Wade Icey
Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
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Feb 12, 2011 - 12:27am PT
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le_bruce
climber
Oakland, CA
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Aug 21, 2015 - 11:07am PT
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Vital references bump
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