Separate Reality

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Gripper

Mountain climber
Nor. Calif.
Topic Author's Original Post - Nov 7, 2005 - 05:50pm PT
Where exactly is Separate Reality? (Save the wisecracks)
Jaybro

Social climber
The West
Nov 7, 2005 - 06:00pm PT
In the Castaneda section at Boarders.

Hahaha

Just below one of the turnouts on 120.
WBraun

climber
Nov 7, 2005 - 06:35pm PT
You can see it from the turnouts at Pat and Jack Pinnacle at Cascade creek,on highway 140, look near the rim there. Just below it you will also see “Tales of Power” .

Ron Kauk during those times did read Castaneda’s books extensively and thus the names.

He found “Separate Reality” after leading the Tales of power. We never saw the big roof until Ron actually climbed the pitch below (Tales of Power). We always approached from below, which was a real bitch to get to.

Now you can rappel into the climbs from above on the east end of the long tunnel on highway 120 about a mile up the road from Reeds climbing area.

LEB

climber
Glen Gardner
Nov 7, 2005 - 06:36pm PT
Do you mean separate reality or do you mean alternative reality?
Clayman

Trad climber
CA, now Flagstaff
Nov 7, 2005 - 06:40pm PT
drive to the second tunnel on 120. there is a prominent tourist pullout. park there, walk to the very start of the tunnel, hope the wall, look for a steep downhil trail. you can see the crack from above on a big white slab. its killer.
WBraun

climber
Nov 7, 2005 - 06:41pm PT
"Separate Reality"
LEB

climber
Glen Gardner
Nov 7, 2005 - 06:49pm PT
Oh, I can't help him out there. If he wanted to talk about "alternative reality" then I could.
Ouch!

climber
Nov 7, 2005 - 07:17pm PT
One of her other identities. :-))
Ed Hartouni

Trad climber
Livermore, CA
Nov 7, 2005 - 09:07pm PT
LEB - very strange for you to post to this thread... what would you have to add to a rather specific climbing question. And after all, this is a forum for climbers (though climbing seems less and less the subject of the threads these days).

If you Google "separate reality yosemite" you will have to go to the fourth page to find a reference to something other than the famous climb Werner refers to and everyone who is a serious climber would know.

Why post in this thread? what is your point?
locker

Trad climber
Joshua Tree Ca
Nov 7, 2005 - 09:11pm PT
Ed wrote..."Why post in this thread? what is your point?"............LEB is a Troller...
LEB

climber
Glen Gardner
Nov 7, 2005 - 09:37pm PT
Ed,

I thought he was referring to "alternate reality" which is a very specific term pertaining to Native American Spiritualism. I have never heard of "separate reality" Since Werner did ask me about alternative reality, however, I am planning to answer his question. It was a simple misunderstanding - nothing more sinister.

So Werner, as long as I am going to answer your question (shortly) about "alternative reality" what is this "separate reality" to which they (Ed and Locker) are referring. Can you fill me in? Thanks

Lois
Ed Hartouni

Trad climber
Livermore, CA
Nov 7, 2005 - 10:08pm PT
Gripper...
here is a visual to go with Werner's and Clayman's description

LEB

climber
Glen Gardner
Nov 7, 2005 - 10:08pm PT
Werner, you asked me about alternative reality - well here goes...... Micheal Harner, world reknown expert on Shamanism gives a “quick and dirty” explanation of alternate reality as it applies to Native American Spiritualism during his answer to an interview question which asks "How is an altered state of consciousness achieved in shamanism?"

Harner states the following:
In about 90% of the world, the altered states of consciousness used in shamanism are attained through consciousness-changing techniques involving a monotonous percussion sound, most typically done with a drum, but also with sticks, rattles, and other instruments. In perhaps 10% of the cultures, shamans use psychedelic drugs to change their state of consciousness.

I was introduced to shamanic work in 1961 among the Conibo Indians in eastern Peru, with the aid of native psychedelics. When I came back to the United States and no longer had my supply of ayahuasca, I experimented with drumming. Much to my surprise, it really worked. It should not have surprised me, because drums were reportedly used by shamans almost worldwide. Virtually everything you find in shamanism is done because it works. Over tens of thousands of years, shamans developed the most time-tested system of using the spirit, mind, and heart for healing, along with plant remedies, and so on. Again, the system is time-tested. So if healers in 90% of the shamanic cultures are using the same methods, we pay attention to them. And, of course, we find they work.

To get back to the extraction technique: the technique involves an altered state of consciousness and seeing into the client's body. Much shamanic work, including journeying and extraction, is done in darkness for a very simple reason. The shaman wishes to cut out the stimuli of ordinary reality- light, sound, and so on-and move into unseen reality. The shaman learns to look in the body with "x-ray vision" and see the illness and its location, and then to extract that illness..

The link wherein the above interview appears can be found as follows: http://www.shamanism.org/articles/857415539.htm#5

For a more in depth discussion of Shamanism and alternative reality, the following link should be very informative

http://faculty.gvsu.edu/websterm/Shamans.htm

As for my own views, I find the study of Native American spiritualism very fascinating. There are some experts who draw parallels between Native American spiritualism and Zen Buddhism. Chief among these persons is one Joan Halifax Roshi, founder of the Upaya Zen Center. The website for her organization is http://www.upaya.org/

On personal level, I have heard Dr. Hallifax Roshi lecture several times and it was most interesting. Before I became a nurse practitioner in primary care, I was the head nurse on an HIV unit within a large inner city medical center during the mid to late 1980s.

It was particularly difficult during that time frame because the disease was relatively new and we were not prepared for all the issues which came up in that context. In particular, issues concerning death and dying would surface continually and it was helpful to have some framework in this context. We couldn’t change the fact that our patients (most of whom were quite young in their 20s and 30s) were dying but at least sometimes we could help a patient find some meaning to that experience. Sometimes all you could offer someone was a chance to sit and talk about these perspectives but then sometimes that was enough.

Lois
WBraun

climber
Nov 7, 2005 - 10:09pm PT
Lois

The popular belief at the time was that all people were caught on one side of a dual reality. So, through the use of mind-expanding drugs such as LSD, marijuana, and peyote, which strove to reach a kind of separate, utopian reality which was felt within the grasp of the user. By using these hallucinogens , people strove to achieve a sense of oneness with the universe. Even though each LSD trip ended in depression, It always experienced a few beautiful moments when the world became amazingly colorful and ever changing. It came to believe that ever-new and animated, albeit imaginary, perceptions of the world, were an ultimate reality in themselves-and that the user became the orchestrate of that reality. This led one to believe that he/she was not the body, but the all-pervading God, the supreme creator and controller.

Thus it is a reality that leads to fall down and spiritual suicide …..Mayavadi consciousness.

"The ambitious Mayavadi philosophers desire to merge into the existence of the Lord, and this may be accepted as sayujya-mukti. However this form of mukti means denying ones individual existence. In other words it is a kind of spiritual suicide.

The separate reality was a rock climb that was at the time, one of the hardest crack climbs in the country, inspired by a spiritual consciousness.

Ron did not do drugs.
Ed Hartouni

Trad climber
Livermore, CA
Nov 7, 2005 - 10:10pm PT
LEB - why don't you forget about "alternate reality"... I'd rather hear Werner talk about the climb "Separate Reality", and you can listen along.
LEB

climber
Glen Gardner
Nov 7, 2005 - 10:14pm PT
Ed, that is fine with me but Werner specifically asked me to explain "alternative reality" I am all ears about his "separate reality."

Lois
WBraun

climber
Nov 7, 2005 - 10:36pm PT
Chuckling and laughing ....at the above

Lois on every climb there is a secret door, actually it's not so secret as every climber knows it's there. Everyone is looking to open that door of perception to understand the truth to the desire of his/her actions.

Just try more to soak up the dialogue of the technical aspects of the climbing subjects being discussed here so you don't get caught in the crossroads of misunderstanding with these folks.

For a non (especially rock climber) on this site one can easily become bewildered by some of the conversations.
Jaybro

Social climber
The West
Nov 8, 2005 - 11:06am PT
on the other hand, the book "Seperate Reality,"had a lot to do with what LEB & Werner were saying.
mynameismud

climber
backseat
Nov 8, 2005 - 11:17am PT
thank you LEB and Werner. Like the thread.
Clint Cummins

Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
Nov 8, 2005 - 11:31am PT
To nitpick slightly, the book title is "A Separate Reality", by Carlos Castaneda:

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0671732498/103-5197179-7631860?v=glance

(not that I've read it).

Separate Reality = the classic long roof crack done by Kauk which became more widely known by the photo of Ray Jardine doing it on the cover of Mountain magazine.

Alternative Reality = a long hand traverse crack Joel and I did at a secret area! :-) Thanks for the real definition, Lois.
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