The Massive Ark on the Moon (very OT, but of high interest)

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Klimmer

Mountain climber
San Diego
Topic Author's Original Post - Apr 29, 2010 - 12:54pm PT
The Massive Ark on the backside of the Moon . . .

Imaged by many official NASA Apollo Missions and some that are "Unofficial" . . .




From the official Apollo 15 image index and 2 images taken by apollo 15 . . . The coordinates of the massive ship are known.




From Photogrammetry using "Google Moon" we can determine the exact lat./long. coordinates of the massive ship and the diameter of "Isaac D" Craters (2 overlapping craters near the ship). Note, "Google Moon" hides the ship in low-resolution imagery and pixelation:





With this information we can then plot the diameter of "Isaac D" Craters onto the panoramic images taken during Apollo 15 for accurate scale to determine the actual size of the massive ship. It is bigger than I originally thought . . .





Well, how big is it? Here is an idea to its size compared to NY City . . .





What is it? And who made this massive craft? My hypothesis is, I think it is from Intra-terrestrials, Nephalim, from Man's hidden past. You have to read your Bible, the Book of Genesis, and the Book of Enoch to understand this hidden history. Fallen Angels mated with beautiful Earthly women, and had off-spring called Nephalim. They were big, strong, very intelligent and were the combination of the worst of the Fallen Angels, and the worst of Mankind. They were a hybrid species that wasn't supposed to be. The Bible has a lot to say about the Giants, the Nephalim. It is why GOD had to wipe them all out with a massive global flood. But the Bible also says they continued to live on after the flood. Not all of them were destroyed. Could it be that they also built an Ark and escaped off World? They had the intelligence of Angels, the Fallen Angels, whom by the way taught man all kinds of forbidden knowledge, such as War. The Book of Enoch goes into all of this in detail . . .





Here are great resources. I'll put up the clickable links later when I have more time.





Luca's new book regarding everything concerning Apollo 20. I haven't read it yet, but know the story very well. He has put in new information into the book not available on his website. Looks like a good read . . .















No matter what you think about all of this, NASA could easily confirm it or refute it if they just release all the high-resolution LRO imagery that they now are bound to have. They probably have enough imagery now of this site in very high resolution to view the craft from multiple 3D perspectives.

NASA needs to release all the LRO imagery they have taken. This imagery database is ours. We paid for it with our tax dollars. NASA should release all of it through a searchable Lat./Long. on-line database. We need to do this.

If NASA can do the following with all the Apollo landing sites, and they can, including finding Soviet Moon-rovers, then they can easily do so with this site supposively explored by Apollo 20 on the backside of the Moon.






No matter how you feel about this knowledge, this evidence, you have to admit it is pretty interesting, no matter whether you believe it or not. Once again, NASA can say "Yea" or "Nay" with the snap of their fingers. Why don't they?






Edit:

Adding the links here also . . .

Apollo 20 Resources:

Retiredafb at Revver.com
http://www.revver.com/u/retiredafb/

Moonwalker1966delta at Youtube.com
http://www.youtube.com/user/moonwalker1966delta

Angelismarriti – Homepage
http://www.angelismarriti.it/ANGELISMARRITI-ENG/home-ENG.htm

Angelismarrti – Article: Apollo 20 – Light and Shadow
http://www.angelismarriti.it/ANGELISMARRITI-ENG/REPORTS_ARTICLES/apollo20-lightsandhadows.htm

Angelismarrti – Book: Apollo 20 the Disclosure
http://www.angelismarriti.it/ANGELISMARRITI-ENG/books.htm

Lulu.com – Book Publisher: Apollo 20 the Disclosure
http://www.lulu.com/product/paperback/apollo-20-the-disclosure/6383187

Ramistrip.com – Homepage
http://www.ramistrip.com/000%20web%20pages/000%20home01.html

Ramistrip.com – Apollo 20 Ship Size
http://www.ramistrip.com/000%20web%20pages/052%20Ship%20size.html

Ramistrip.com – Apollo 20 Best Image
http://www.ramistrip.com/000%20web%20pages/best%20image.html

Ramistrip.com – Apollo 20 Flight Path
http://www.ramistrip.com/000%20web%20pages/052flight.html

Ramistrip.com – Apollo 20 Image Reconstruction Steps
http://www.ramistrip.com/000%20web%20pages/052%20reconstruction%20steps.html

Ramistrip.com – Apollo 20 article by Alexander Bar-Elan
http://www.ramistrip.com/000%20web%20pages/880aba.html

Youtube Ramistrip:
http://www.youtube.com/user/rrmmii

Really good compiled videos by Ramistrip:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NZZWDpICa_U&feature=player_embedded#!

The Best: Alien Spaceship On The Moon - Apollo 20 Sleepwalk
http://www.disclose.tv/action/viewvideo/1233/Alien_Spaceship_on_the_Moon___Apollo_20_Sleepwalk/






I think the most credible videos posted by RetiredAFB are:

http://www.revver.com/video/624310/apollo-15-and-17-search-for-the-spaceship/

http://www.revver.com/video/624328/one-of-nasa-attempt-to-hide-alien-spacecraft/

http://www.revver.com/video/624322/alien-spaceship-on-the-moon-stills-from-apollo-20/

http://www.revver.com/video/642281/alien-spaceship-on-the-moon-flyover-before-landing-apollo-20/


Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Apr 29, 2010 - 01:01pm PT
This should be entertaining...

"Paging Mt Potay. Mr Potay to the front desk!"
Mighty Hiker

climber
Vancouver, B.C.
Apr 29, 2010 - 01:22pm PT
I'll put up the clickable links later when I have more time.
Don't bother.
cleo

Social climber
Berkeley, CA
Apr 29, 2010 - 01:24pm PT
Oh.

My.

God.

Is there any conspiracy that Klimmer DOESN'T believe?
Is there any science that Klimmer DOES believe?


Weld_it

Trad climber
Chatsworth
Apr 29, 2010 - 01:26pm PT
You are on to something here and thank you for bringing this important info out into the light and I wish more people would post this kinda of stuff, or welding stuff. Both are soooooo cool!
brotherbbock

Trad climber
Alta Loma, CA
Apr 29, 2010 - 01:29pm PT
Wow......you are a full on nutball.
cleo

Social climber
Berkeley, CA
Apr 29, 2010 - 01:30pm PT
WAIT!

THAT must be Noah's Ark!!!

Prezwoodz

climber
Anchorage
Apr 29, 2010 - 01:30pm PT
I firmly believe that first shot is a fake. It looks obvious to me.

Oh any linking it immediately to religion? Pretty much threw it off for me right there if I had any coherent scientific thought.
climbinginchico

Trad climber
Modesto, CA
Apr 29, 2010 - 01:34pm PT
You could go weld on the alien spaceship!

Yeah!
dirtbag

climber
Apr 29, 2010 - 01:35pm PT
Dude...c'mon.
Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
Why'djya leave the ketchup on the table?
Apr 29, 2010 - 01:39pm PT
Hey, he's just offering you all a klimmer of the truth. He took you too the river, but doesn't insist that you step into the water. Seems pretty benign from my high perch.

Hug me
Squeeze me

DMT
Port

Trad climber
San Diego
Apr 29, 2010 - 01:41pm PT
It looks like a giant turd to me....

Edit: Whats up with that image of Manhattan....The buildings and bridges are not in their correct places...and is that an image of Toronto on the left?
ydpl8s

Trad climber
Santa Monica, California
Apr 29, 2010 - 01:48pm PT
Hey, you posted this 28 days too late!
Pate

Trad climber
Apr 29, 2010 - 01:50pm PT
Klimmer, I heard they found intelligent life in YerAnus. But I don't believe it, probably just more crap.
Klimmer

Mountain climber
San Diego
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 29, 2010 - 01:51pm PT
Is there not a curious mind at all on ST? Is it not OK to think and speculate? Wonder? Ponder? Ask questions?

Wow, we do it all the time in Science Fiction, and yet in the Sci-Fi World we have seen specualation and fore-thought come to fruition, and become our reality.

Sheeple, step outside the safety of your confined cubicles and boxes within your narrow limited minds.
James Doty

Trad climber
Idyllwild, Ca.
Apr 29, 2010 - 02:02pm PT
Thank you, Morpheus.
dirtbag

climber
Apr 29, 2010 - 02:04pm PT
Pate

Trad climber
Apr 29, 2010 - 02:06pm PT
Is there not a curious mind at all on ST?

Curious yes.

Schizophrenic and delusional, only you.
GDavis

Social climber
SOL CAL
Apr 29, 2010 - 02:06pm PT
Steve L

Gym climber
SUR
Apr 29, 2010 - 02:26pm PT
Whales live (and die) there too.

Credit: Steve L
MisterE

Social climber
Across Town From Easy Street
Apr 29, 2010 - 02:31pm PT
I just wanted to post on this historical thread.
Klimmer

Mountain climber
San Diego
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 29, 2010 - 02:31pm PT
Yes, and I suppose the best and brightest, many of our Apollo Astronauts and Shuttle and ISS Astronauts who have witnessed and have publically spoken regarding the UFOs that they have seen and that are under the control of intelligent life, these same astronauts are also delusional and crazy?

So we send crazy and delusional people to space? How do we manage that? How is that working out for us?


Why is it that the French, UK, Canadian, Mexican, and the Russian Governments are so much more willing to disclose the UFO and Alien presence, even producing on-line official government web-sites where you can read the historical accounts of sightings, yet NASA and our US Government are mute on the subject?

Truth happens.
Weld_it

Trad climber
Chatsworth
Apr 29, 2010 - 02:34pm PT
Can you post those extra links now? This is so exciting!
Pate

Trad climber
Apr 29, 2010 - 02:35pm PT
Categorizing yourself among "the best and brightest" is a stretch.

So we send crazy and delusional people to space?

We should, you'd do well there.
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Full Silos of Iowa
Apr 29, 2010 - 02:37pm PT
The Taco's Conspiracy Minister doesn't let up. Does he?

Don't forget: He purports to be a science teacher, too. But I don't believe it.
Klimmer

Mountain climber
San Diego
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 29, 2010 - 02:39pm PT
I'll post the links in intelligent order that makes sense later today, after school when I'm at home. Don't have time to look them up now.
Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
Why'djya leave the ketchup on the table?
Apr 29, 2010 - 02:43pm PT
I read Dhalgren, we do INDEED send crazy people to space.



DMT
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Full Silos of Iowa
Apr 29, 2010 - 02:46pm PT
Dingus, don't pick on her. She was a victim of love.
Klimmer

Mountain climber
San Diego
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 29, 2010 - 02:46pm PT
HFCS,

Don't you know High Fructose Corn Syrup is bad for everyone? It is one of the leading causes now in our diets linked to obescity and many other serious health issues. Why would you choose that as on-line name?

Teaching Credentials are available on-line. They are public. You can look it up. Answer your own questions.
Pate

Trad climber
Apr 29, 2010 - 02:50pm PT
Credit: Pate

Working on a Test-Tube Jesus?
Weld_it

Trad climber
Chatsworth
Apr 29, 2010 - 02:50pm PT
You are a great teacher Klimmer and these guys are just scarred of the TRUTH. Fight on brave warroir of the unknown.
Pate

Trad climber
Apr 29, 2010 - 02:51pm PT
it is one of the leading causes now in our diets linked to obescity and many other serious health issues.


It also causes bad spelling.
Mighty Hiker

climber
Vancouver, B.C.
Apr 29, 2010 - 02:52pm PT
But does it cause bad welding?
Douglas Rhiner

Mountain climber
Good question?!?!?!?!?
Apr 29, 2010 - 02:55pm PT
Don't you know High Fructose Corn Syrup is bad for everyone? It is one of the leading causes now in our diets linked to obescity and many other serious health issues. Why would you choose that as on-line name?

I thought GOD made people fat.
monolith

climber
Berkeley, CA
Apr 29, 2010 - 02:59pm PT
Actually Pate, Klimmer (aka Glenn Simpson) does consider himself to be among the best and brightest as he is among the top 33 physcists in the world battling the 6 or 7 evil government experts regarding 9/11.

Says so right here so it must be true:

Glenn Simpson (BA Physical Geography, HS Physics and Earth Science Teacher)

http://blogs.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.view&friendId=9635890&blogId=282438026

Not surprising at all that his expertise in analyzing grainy 9/11 youtube videos would extend to grainy moon shots as well.
WandaFuca

Social climber
From the gettin place
Apr 29, 2010 - 02:59pm PT



I'd tell you to use Occam's Razor, but they probably don't let you near anything sharp in your institution.



brotherbbock

Trad climber
Alta Loma, CA
Apr 29, 2010 - 03:03pm PT
Klimmer you should teach an online course or perhaps a college class on this. I am so in to this stuff, I believe everything that you are saying here 100%.

The ONLY, and I mean THE ONLY explanation for those photos are giant half human, half angel demons that escaped god's wrath and went to the moon in a spaceship they built thousands of years ago.

Why can't you people here understand that?
TrundleBum

Trad climber
Las Vegas
Apr 29, 2010 - 03:05pm PT

Where's Locker when yah need'm?
ydpl8s

Trad climber
Santa Monica, California
Apr 29, 2010 - 03:08pm PT
I've got this strange feeling....

That he moonlights as a certified toprope instructor/guide at Devils Lake.
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Full Silos of Iowa
Apr 29, 2010 - 03:08pm PT
Trundle- You beat me to it!!

Paging LOCKER.
re: Glenn Simpson...



P.S. If one has a B.A. in physical geography, he's called a physicist? Hmm...
couchmaster

climber
pdx
Apr 29, 2010 - 03:13pm PT
Klimmer, thanks for the heads up, I'd seen it before, although your images look more enhanced for better viewing.

Ignore those who belittle you on this, it could be true. Or not. The truth will be out eventually. My great great grandfather once told me that man could never land a craft on the moon. He was positive on this. He was born when the civil war was still raging in Kentucky, and lived to hear Kennedy's pronouncement of the landing. 3 years after he passed on, Neil Armstrong stepped onto the dust.....
James Doty

Trad climber
Idyllwild, Ca.
Apr 29, 2010 - 03:17pm PT
If true, what then?
James Doty

Trad climber
Idyllwild, Ca.
Apr 29, 2010 - 03:19pm PT
I didn't see anything except the first CG photo.
Edit: Which looks like the mother ship in Aliens.
brotherbbock

Trad climber
Alta Loma, CA
Apr 29, 2010 - 03:26pm PT
I'll take over Locker's cheesy photo-shop job for a second.


MeatBomb

Gym climber
Boise, I dee Hoe
Apr 29, 2010 - 03:27pm PT
If this is the dude that is the teacher in this link, he's got problems far beyond fake moon landings and 911 truthers:

http://www.ratemyteachers.com/glenn-simpson/107234-t

If you ask him about paragliding or Yes you will pass the class though! LOL!
Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
Why'djya leave the ketchup on the table?
Apr 29, 2010 - 03:30pm PT
If true, what then?

International Law regarding shipwrecks is quite clear.

If you can get there matey, the plunder be yours, arrrggghhhh!

Plunder I say.

DMT

James Doty

Trad climber
Idyllwild, Ca.
Apr 29, 2010 - 03:40pm PT
I travel there every month during my full moon meditation and I have never seen it. I will look again tonight.
Dick_Lugar

Trad climber
Indiana (the other Mideast)
Apr 29, 2010 - 03:50pm PT
The proposed spaceship looks like a giant alien turd to these untrained eyes...
Jingy

Social climber
Nowhere
Apr 29, 2010 - 03:55pm PT
looks more like a half smoked doooby...

but that might just be me....
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Full Silos of Iowa
Apr 29, 2010 - 03:59pm PT
Meatbomb- That's an interesting site. Quite informative.
photo not found
Missing photo ID#155582

http://www.ratemyteachers.com/patrick-henry-high-school/3484-s/3
MeatBomb

Gym climber
Boise, I dee Hoe
Apr 29, 2010 - 04:05pm PT
LOL!!

http://henry.sandi.net/staff_directory/staff_info.php?id=84
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Full Silos of Iowa
Apr 29, 2010 - 04:16pm PT
Ah, he seems like an alright dude.

http://henry.sandi.net/staff/gsimpson/root/aboutteach.html

It's America. And he's OUR "conspiracy minister", that's all.
Welcome, Glenn!
graniteclimber

Trad climber
Nowhere
Apr 29, 2010 - 04:21pm PT
Pate

Trad climber
Apr 29, 2010 - 04:38pm PT
edit: I take this post back. He's a douchebag. Let him have it.
James Doty

Trad climber
Idyllwild, Ca.
Apr 29, 2010 - 04:42pm PT
It is the same with all the conspiracy theories. If true then so what? Talk about it some more? Until there is a grassroots coming together of many like-minded people who are willing to act instead of talk nothing will change.
I have sat in on many of the Birds' immigration rants and when I could get a word in edge-wise I said the same thing. Let me know when the talking part is done.

Edit: That line also works when someone is threatening to kick my ass. Feel free to use it if you like.
James Doty

Trad climber
Idyllwild, Ca.
Apr 29, 2010 - 04:53pm PT
Pate, You are pretty funny.
brotherbbock

Trad climber
Alta Loma, CA
Apr 29, 2010 - 05:10pm PT
here ya go Pate:

High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Full Silos of Iowa
Apr 29, 2010 - 05:13pm PT
Pate wrote-
"edit: I take this post back. He's a douchebag. Let him have it. "

Heck, what'd I miss?


EDIT 2:12p Oh brotherb, LOL!
MisterE

Social climber
Across Town From Easy Street
Apr 29, 2010 - 05:16pm PT
outed and 'shopped! wow, that was fast.
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Full Silos of Iowa
Apr 29, 2010 - 05:16pm PT
Now you've done it, he's going to nuke this thread!
Pate

Trad climber
Apr 29, 2010 - 05:21pm PT
.........says one idiot to another.
Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
Why'djya leave the ketchup on the table?
Apr 29, 2010 - 05:31pm PT
Booty.



I'm tellin you blokes, there is BOOTY up there.

DMT
Fritz

Trad climber
Hagerman, ID
Apr 29, 2010 - 05:33pm PT
Yep: Definately something there. On closer inspection: I don't think it is a spaceship, or a giant turd.

Obviously: (duh) it is another giant Idaho Spud!

I will leave how it got there up to Klimmer and Pate.

An Idaho icon.  The giant spud.  One of two???
An Idaho icon. The giant spud. One of two???
Credit: Fritz
Pate

Trad climber
Apr 29, 2010 - 05:33pm PT
All that LSD burn out your sense of humor along with 2/3's of the rest of your brain, Pate?

Nope, it left me enlightened.

Are you saying I don't have the right to express myself CokBlox?
Port

Trad climber
San Diego
Apr 29, 2010 - 05:37pm PT
Some people just WANT to believe. It can give meaning to their life.

Klimmmer, I read your bio that was posted earlier. I'm a grad student at SDSU and work for the rockwall at the ARC. Come in sometime and well climb. I disagree with your theories but Im always down to climb.
Pate

Trad climber
Apr 29, 2010 - 05:39pm PT
Wocky is going to ratchet this up to a whole new level of stupid.

Credit: Pate
brotherbbock

Trad climber
Alta Loma, CA
Apr 29, 2010 - 05:39pm PT
I just can't wait till Klimmer actually comes back and sees what he's started.
Pate

Trad climber
Apr 29, 2010 - 05:43pm PT
Wait a few more hours until Wocky is REALLY liquored up, then the fireworks will start.
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Full Silos of Iowa
Apr 29, 2010 - 05:45pm PT
Rok wrote-
And HFCS has been rapidly becoming one of the more bigmouth of the bullies, ordering us into his world of personal politics as though there were no other views possible.

What?! (1) How are we defining "bully" now?! (2) Who is "us," have we ever exchanged before today? No.

Oh man, how times are changing.
MeatBomb

Gym climber
Boise, I dee Hoe
Apr 29, 2010 - 05:46pm PT
photo not found
Missing photo ID#151932

Have Faye adjust your meds Lance. You are becoming unhinged.
mojede

Trad climber
Butte, America
Apr 29, 2010 - 05:47pm PT
If true, what then?--James Doty


Let's use the Kennedy Assassination for an example:

The majority of Americans are convinced that Lee Harvey Oswald acted as the lone gunman. So much has come out to prove this otherwise it is mind-boggling, and NOT just a made-up theory.

People are so programmed by their egos that when the truth is revealed--NOTHING happens!




OUR EGOS HAVE REPLACED THE QUEST FOR TRUTH--WE KNOW WHAT "WE" KNOW AND NOTHING ELSE.




...sad shite for humanity if you ask me.






Klimmer, take a road trip to Montana someday--I'd love to hang out and climb with you and leave our egos behind.

Pate

Trad climber
Apr 29, 2010 - 06:31pm PT
ordering us into his world of personal politics as though there were no other views possible.

The "us" is referring to the numerous seperate entities that occupy his cranium.

Especially "RokJox The Marionette" who at one time was broken into a thousand pieces, but has been glued back together.
Pate

Trad climber
Apr 29, 2010 - 06:42pm PT
Which one was that Wocky? Marionette or WolfBoy?
MeatBomb

Gym climber
Boise, I dee Hoe
Apr 29, 2010 - 06:52pm PT
And Meatsack posts even more garbage, and can't offer even the common decency of using my avatar name, or leaving my wife's name out of his posts. Are you such an unmannered ass that you can't understand that my wife and my personal identity should be left out of supertopo? You have a manifest lack of decency Meat-turd. Try to grow up before you reproduce, we don't need many more such as you.

Umm. you posted that info on another thread along with your home address and phone number. Are you saying it is secret or something? If so, why did you post it? Would you like me to remove it? As for reproducing, aren't you the one with the handful of deadbeat kids (that are behind in their rent to you) as YOU posted on another thread? For a secretive guy you sure do post a lot about you and your family on the internet.

oh. Rained and snowed out of the Tower ascent. Never even got racked up. Saw your prediction on the other thread. Thanks for the vote of confidence douche!
James Doty

Trad climber
Idyllwild, Ca.
Apr 29, 2010 - 06:54pm PT
Rok,
I definitely agree about past history and our future. I do not believe that all of past cultures were superstitious, particularly the Chinese. I live and practice today, methods that date back thousands of years in Chinese history that absolutely work. Meditation, chi kung, etc. The moon meditation I mentioned upthread is an actual practice developed by the Taoists to utilize the energy of the moon that everyone feels to one degree or another. I was joking about going to the moon to match the thread topic. The actual method involves drawing the energy into yourself. It aids in lucid dreaming, dream control and developing precognition. I know, I sound nuts. Just trying to take some heat off of Klimmer:)
Mighty Hiker

climber
Vancouver, B.C.
Apr 29, 2010 - 06:57pm PT
I'm fairly sure that they keep wolves in the ark on the far side of the moon, and periodically release them in Rocky's backyard.
graniteclimber

Trad climber
Nowhere
Apr 29, 2010 - 07:01pm PT
There is no need to post Klimmer's real name or pictures. I find his conspiracy threads to be as funny as anyone else, but what happens on Supertopo should stay on Supertopo.
graniteclimber

Trad climber
Nowhere
Apr 29, 2010 - 07:04pm PT
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Full Silos of Iowa
Apr 29, 2010 - 07:04pm PT
"There is no need to post Klimmer's real name or pictures..."

Agree to a point.

But does this not invite elaboration:
Klimmer wrote-
"Teaching Credentials are available on-line. They are public. You can look it up."

http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.php?topic_id=1156814&msg=1156980#msg1156980



Nobody's twisting anybody's arm into having to participate in any of these threads. To my way of thinking, that makes all the difference.
WBraun

climber
Apr 29, 2010 - 07:15pm PT
The corn nut said: "To my way of thinking ...."

You couldn't think your way out of a paper bag.

You guys suck what you did to klimmer.

Fuk you !!!!
Mighty Hiker

climber
Vancouver, B.C.
Apr 29, 2010 - 07:17pm PT
Maybe Klimmer was trolling. He's certainly got a lot of bites.
dirtbag

climber
Apr 29, 2010 - 07:18pm PT
There is no need to post Klimmer's real name or pictures. I find his conspiracy threads to be as funny as anyone else, but what happens on Supertopo should stay on Supertopo.

Totally agree.
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Full Silos of Iowa
Apr 29, 2010 - 07:24pm PT
He's hardly a shrinking violet. If he can't stand the heat, he shouldn't post up inflammatory subjects (conspiracies, religious stuff, of all things) on a public forum. He trolls like all the rest of us.

Braun- You're still pissed off for the scientific whipping you got on the other thread. Yeah, I know... "mental speculations..."


What's more: Nobody "bullied" Klimmer, either. Re-read the thread if you have to.
monolith

climber
Berkeley, CA
Apr 29, 2010 - 07:30pm PT
Klimmer has posted his name a number of times. Do a google search on ST. He clearly does not care.

http://www.google.com/#hl=en&source=hp&q=site%3Asupertopo.com+glenn+simpson&btnG=Google+Search&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=site%3Asupertopo.com+glenn+simpson&gs_rfai=&fp=84c7fb41710deb10
Hawkeye

climber
State of Mine
Apr 29, 2010 - 07:31pm PT
rj,
I lost a lot there, mostly the ability to tell some stories that I wanted to tell, and in that, most everybody on this site lost out. It bummed me, someday I may put them into a book form, and YOU and others can then PAY me for those stories, for what I was giving away for free.

yeah, there were tears rolling down all ST's cheeks when that happened...

pay you? i say we take up a collection to pay you to STFU!!!

only it would never work....
Klimmer

Mountain climber
San Diego
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 29, 2010 - 07:32pm PT
What a day! Had a little time to post today while the students are doing State testing, then Senior Portflios after school, then I check back into my mental bubble gum I call SuperTaco and what do I find?

HOLY MOTHER OF GOD, MARY, THE MOTHER OF JESUS!!

You guys go too far sometimes. I could nuke the thread. I have thought about it. Yes, there is a lot of info you can look up on a public teacher, but I didn't ask you to post it.

I have nothing to be ashamed of. I play fair. I ask questions of interest that I think we would all like to know the answer too. I try not to attack anyone. I try to live by The Golden Rule. You can go back and edit what you have done.


I will respond later. Right now I think I'm gonna go home, and have a drink.


I need a vacation. I need my happy place.





High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Full Silos of Iowa
Apr 29, 2010 - 07:40pm PT
Klimmer wrote-
"...there is a lot of info you can look up on a public teacher, but I didn't ask you to post it."
No worries. Not from me. "What happens on the Taco stays on the Taco."

I agree.

Klimmer wrote-
"I ask questions of interest that I think we would all like to know the answer too. I try not to attack anyone. I try to live by The Golden Rule. You can go back and edit what you have done."

And here's my piece from this thread's sibling thread (which you decided to leave to go start your very own, you can check the timestamps):
"From another perspective, decision making (arguably the premiere feature of our species) leads to making decisions and taking stances. After much study, I decided long ago I would not be "agnostic" concerning the Gods of ancient Egypt or the Gods of ancient Greece or the Gods of the Ancient Mesopotamia (which includes God Jehovah, aka God of Moses, aka God of modern Christians and Muslims and Jews). -Anymore than I am "agnostic" about the Gulf of Tonkin incident. -Anymore than I am agnostic (i.e., without knowledge, unknowing) about a camalot's mechanical advantage or a granite rock's coefficient of friction."

http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.php?topic_id=1155248&msg=1156077#msg1156077


You put forth a lot of whacky stuff. It's my right to exercise my decision-making power, to make decisions and to take stances against your whacky ideas and stuff. All the more important in modern democracies of which public forums are a part.

Hawkeye

climber
State of Mine
Apr 29, 2010 - 07:41pm PT
your happy place isnt on the backside of some ladies moon is it???

on a serious note if someone wonders why our kids dont persue math and science just read your reviews, or your conspiracy theories...
MisterE

Social climber
Across Town From Easy Street
Apr 29, 2010 - 07:43pm PT
Klimmer

Mountain climber
San Diego
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 29, 2010 - 07:59pm PT
One last post before I go home . . .

"RateMyTeacher.com"

Haven't looked at that site for many years.

Yea, teach the students the full curriculum. Make it interesting, exciting, fun. Do lots of great labs that are directly relevant to the topic. Make them work. Make them learn. Hold them accountable. And the students who don't do well, don't do what is assigned, don't study, disrupt class, do poorly, don't end up with the grade they think they should have gotten (hey, you have to earn and work for your grade, its in the numbers no manipulation allowed) then jump on said site and post up their review. They used to block the site from all SDUSD computers at all schools. What is the point? Some Teenagers will do and say anything. Thankfully, most are really great. But some, some are like posters here on ST.

Many a great teachers are slandered on such sites. It's not unlike SuperTaco.
Ricardo Cabeza

climber
All Over.
Apr 29, 2010 - 08:13pm PT
Honestly, I'd like to hear Werners thoughts on this, beyond;'fuk you'.

Serious, Werner, please expound.
franky

Trad climber
Bishop, CA
Apr 29, 2010 - 09:00pm PT
what the hell is wrong with you guys. jeebus. get back on topic, aliens on the moon... GO!!!
graniteclimber

Trad climber
Nowhere
Apr 29, 2010 - 09:02pm PT
NASA just released this picture.

James Doty

Trad climber
Idyllwild, Ca.
Apr 29, 2010 - 09:07pm PT
Wow, NASA finally comes clean!
Edit: And they seem very friendly up there.
Pate

Trad climber
Apr 29, 2010 - 09:08pm PT
graniteclimber- I'm in a coffee shop, and people just headswiveled to stare at me because that made me burst out laughing!
Pate

Trad climber
Apr 29, 2010 - 09:15pm PT
four figure settlement

$29.99?

You're a joke.
Pate

Trad climber
Apr 29, 2010 - 09:32pm PT
was that Pate was trying to blackmail me,

Dude, you are so twisted.

RokJox, at times I feel really sorry for you, because I think you believe the things you write. You need some help guy, obviously you have no friends and very little family backup.

You're going to snap.

No one tried to blackmail anyone Wocky. What could I ever want from you other than for you to give a terminal kiss to one of your guns on some dark lonely night?

You're delusional man. That means sick.

Stop editing your posts too. OCD freak.
Waah!

climber
Idaho falls
Apr 29, 2010 - 09:45pm PT
RokJox, I think I speak for the masses here:

GET LOST

You go round and round and round, and it's so boring.

You annoying little sh#t.
Credit: Waah!

Pate

Trad climber
Apr 29, 2010 - 09:47pm PT
HAH! Looks like you've got a new friend Wocky.

You can get a Facebook page now, and have 1 FRIEND
mojede

Trad climber
Butte, America
Apr 29, 2010 - 09:50pm PT
I think I speak for the masses:


YOU LITTLE OL' LADIES BICKERING HERE OFF TOPIC NEED TO GO TO A BINGO HALL OR SHUFFLEBOARD COURT AND DEAL WITH IT THERE!
Waah!

climber
Idaho falls
Apr 29, 2010 - 09:51pm PT
I'm no friend. BUt I've known of him for a long time. We're contemporaries you might say.
You've been crying for a long time RokJox, aren't you tired of it?

Credit: Waah!
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Apr 29, 2010 - 09:52pm PT
This started off as such a nice little entertaining thread.
Can't we all just get along?

They can!
They can!
Credit: Reilly
Pate

Trad climber
Apr 29, 2010 - 09:53pm PT
Not me RokJox- some other person in your enormous fan club I'm sure.
Waah!

climber
Idaho falls
Apr 29, 2010 - 10:06pm PT
My beef? My beef is what a blathering idiot you are and always have been RokJox. No one wanted you around then, and the same stands for today.

That was a tall tale you just told about your offspring there RokJox. You should know better.
Credit: Waah!


bmacd

Trad climber
Beautiful, BC
Apr 29, 2010 - 10:07pm PT
I keep hoping for on topic discourse here ....

Hoaxed videos are associated with this tall tail depicting an Asian style pilotess
Waah!

climber
Idaho falls
Apr 29, 2010 - 10:09pm PT
All we ever hear from you RokJox. It's always someone else's fault. Just like a little baby.

Credit: Waah!
Waah!

climber
Idaho falls
Apr 29, 2010 - 10:22pm PT
There there little baby, mommy's going to make it all right.

But you're still lying, and that will just bring more crying.

You've been crying a long long time RokJox, I know.

Credit: Waah!

My avatar is just to point out what you really are.
dirtbag

climber
Apr 29, 2010 - 10:25pm PT
This forum has gotten mean lately, sad to say. Seems like Rokjox's Klimmer's and Fattrads personal lives are now deemed to be fair game.
Waah!

climber
Idaho falls
Apr 29, 2010 - 10:30pm PT
I have no idea about the other two RokJox, but I know your track record, and I know that when a person expresses their true feelings about you, well, it's always in retaliation for something you've said or done. Both here in cyberspace and in real life.

dirtbag, you shouldn't be concerned about RokJox. he's never had friends, he's used to it.

Sad
Credit: Waah!
but true




LithiumMetalman

Trad climber
cesspool central
Apr 29, 2010 - 10:39pm PT
Interesting.

Anyone noticed how it took roughly 10 years to put a man on the moon (I'm dating from (1960ish-1969ish, Apollo Program)

yet...

It's been close to 40 years and we 'still' don't have a base or operations on the moon, yet?

Why is that?

I would think with our advancements in computers, metallurgy, bioagriculture, materials, and improved understanding on physical relativity, we would have something.

Or is something amiss?

Something to ponder and speculate.
Timid TopRope

Social climber
Paradise, CA
Apr 29, 2010 - 10:42pm PT
Best OT thread, ever.
Jim Brennan

Trad climber
Vancouver Canada
Apr 29, 2010 - 10:54pm PT
Klimmer offers the chance at imagination.

Seems better than scrapping or grinding axes of righteousness.

What's not to like about crazy or pertinent opinion ?

All the things I know that can't be changed are oppressive and cause submission.
I guess it makes money but is that the whole point to existence ?
brotherbbock

Trad climber
Alta Loma, CA
Apr 29, 2010 - 10:56pm PT
Holy shit!!!! I left to train for a bit and this thread exploded into armageddon?

Where the heck is alien boy Klimmer at?

I want more aliens on the moon.
Waah!

climber
Idaho falls
Apr 29, 2010 - 11:10pm PT
Poor RokJox, always so desperate! What posts should I delete? I don't see anything I've done other than to call attention to your lying and crying.

Your successful family! Last I heard you were making your son's life miserable and trashing him all over the internet.

That's all.
Credit: Waah!

It's your party, cry if you want to.
LithiumMetalman

Trad climber
cesspool central
Apr 29, 2010 - 11:37pm PT
Focus!

So...prolly a few reasons for WHY we have not gone back after 6-7 Apollo missions.

-Political (Nixon axed funding due to public disapproval)
-Money (Apollo program recieved 4% of the Federal budget, now; NASA recieves less than 1%)
-(Don't Laugh) NASA has forgotten how.

check this out

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wxc7YV2QXzA&feature=player_embedded#!

I think this only part of the story.

brotherbbock

Trad climber
Alta Loma, CA
Apr 29, 2010 - 11:44pm PT
The reason we haven't gone back is that the angel/human/alien hybrids are not allowing us to go back.

They will let us go back once they have mined enough dilithium crystals to power their ship that Klimmer is telling us about.
Klimmer

Mountain climber
San Diego
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 30, 2010 - 12:15am PT
Apollo 20 Resources:

Retiredafb at Revver.com
http://www.revver.com/u/retiredafb/

Moonwalker1966delta at Youtube.com
http://www.youtube.com/user/moonwalker1966delta

Angelismarriti – Homepage
http://www.angelismarriti.it/ANGELISMARRITI-ENG/home-ENG.htm

Angelismarrti – Article: Apollo 20 – Light and Shadow
http://www.angelismarriti.it/ANGELISMARRITI-ENG/REPORTS_ARTICLES/apollo20-lightsandhadows.htm

Angelismarrti – Book: Apollo 20 the Disclosure
http://www.angelismarriti.it/ANGELISMARRITI-ENG/books.htm

Lulu.com – Book Publisher: Apollo 20 the Disclosure
http://www.lulu.com/product/paperback/apollo-20-the-disclosure/6383187

Ramistrip.com – Homepage
http://www.ramistrip.com/000%20web%20pages/000%20home01.html

Ramistrip.com – Apollo 20 Ship Size
http://www.ramistrip.com/000%20web%20pages/052%20Ship%20size.html

Ramistrip.com – Apollo 20 Best Image
http://www.ramistrip.com/000%20web%20pages/best%20image.html

Ramistrip.com – Apollo 20 Flight Path
http://www.ramistrip.com/000%20web%20pages/052flight.html

Ramistrip.com – Apollo 20 Image Reconstruction Steps
http://www.ramistrip.com/000%20web%20pages/052%20reconstruction%20steps.html

Ramistrip.com – Apollo 20 article by Alexander Bar-Elan
http://www.ramistrip.com/000%20web%20pages/880aba.html

Youtube Ramistrip:
http://www.youtube.com/user/rrmmii

Really good compiled videos by Ramistrip:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NZZWDpICa_U&feature=player_embedded#!

The Best: Alien Spaceship On The Moon - Apollo 20 Sleepwalk
http://www.disclose.tv/action/viewvideo/1233/Alien_Spaceship_on_the_Moon___Apollo_20_Sleepwalk/






I think the most credible videos posted by RetiredAFB are:

http://www.revver.com/video/624310/apollo-15-and-17-search-for-the-spaceship/

http://www.revver.com/video/624328/one-of-nasa-attempt-to-hide-alien-spacecraft/

http://www.revver.com/video/624322/alien-spaceship-on-the-moon-stills-from-apollo-20/

http://www.revver.com/video/642281/alien-spaceship-on-the-moon-flyover-before-landing-apollo-20/





Klimmer

Mountain climber
San Diego
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 30, 2010 - 12:17am PT
It would be nice for everyone to be civil.

Please talk substance and not personally attack one another.
Port

Trad climber
San Diego
Apr 30, 2010 - 12:34am PT
"We speculate, we guess, we assume... but we do not know."
-Alexander Bar-Elan

My understanding is that the universe is vast, far beyond our human understanding. Based on this, any life form would need to travel thousands of times the speed of light in order to move around the universe.

So my questions is this: why would any life form that advanced have any interest in human affairs? I think the "truth" is that humans are an insignificant spec in the history of our universe. So small that we invent our own delusions about our place in the universe so that we may feel purpose. I doubt any other life forms in this universe have even come 1 million lights years from our planet, if they exist at all.

Klimmer: How do you think these beings achieved light travel?


Here is a great rendering of our universe.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=17jymDn0W6U
Klimmer

Mountain climber
San Diego
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 30, 2010 - 12:35am PT
Rokjox, Werner, and others who have posted positive messages . . .


Thanks :-)
TomCochrane

Trad climber
Boulder Creek CA
Apr 30, 2010 - 12:40am PT
Some of you are reminding me why I like to be alone in the mountains as far as possible from the thoughts and voices of other people.

Speaking as a contractor systems engineer and project manager working at NASA on the Constellation lunar program and International Space Station program; I'll suggest that we have much to learn...

and good manners are the lubrication for civilization; please be more respectful of each other...

and I like Gandhi's reply to reporters asking his opinion of Western civilization: "I think it would be a good idea!"

If you want well researched information on unusual phenomena, check out my lifelong friend Linda Moulton Howe on earthfiles.com...
bmacd

Trad climber
Beautiful, BC
Apr 30, 2010 - 01:05am PT
Our Universe at Home Within a Larger Universe? So Suggests Physicist's Wormhole Research

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/04/100406172648.htm

Could our universe be located within the interior of a wormhole which itself is part of a black hole that lies within a much larger universe?

Such a scenario in which the universe is born from inside a wormhole (also called an Einstein-Rosen Bridge) is suggested in a paper from Indiana University theoretical physicist Nikodem Poplawski in Physics Letters B. The final version of the paper was available online March 29 and will be published in the journal edition April 12.

Poplawski takes advantage of the Euclidean-based coordinate system called isotropic coordinates to describe the gravitational field of a black hole and to model the radial geodesic motion of a massive particle into a black hole.

In studying the radial motion through the event horizon (a black hole's boundary) of two different types of black holes -- Schwarzschild and Einstein-Rosen, both of which are mathematically legitimate solutions of general relativity -- Poplawski admits that only experiment or observation can reveal the motion of a particle falling into an actual black hole. But he also notes that since observers can only see the outside of the black hole, the interior cannot be observed unless an observer enters or resides within.

"This condition would be satisfied if our universe were the interior of a black hole existing in a bigger universe," he said. "Because Einstein's general theory of relativity does not choose a time orientation, if a black hole can form from the gravitational collapse of matter through an event horizon in the future then the reverse process is also possible. Such a process would describe an exploding white hole: matter emerging from an event horizon in the past, like the expanding universe."
A white hole is connected to a black hole by an Einstein-Rosen bridge (wormhole) and is hypothetically the time reversal of a black hole. Poplawski's paper suggests that all astrophysical black holes, not just Schwarzschild and Einstein-Rosen black holes, may have Einstein-Rosen bridges, each with a new universe inside that formed simultaneously with the black hole.
"From that it follows that our universe could have itself formed from inside a black hole existing inside another universe," he said.

By continuing to study the gravitational collapse of a sphere of dust in isotropic coordinates, and by applying the current research to other types of black holes, views where the universe is born from the interior of an Einstein-Rosen black hole could avoid problems seen by scientists with the Big Bang theory and the black hole information loss problem which claims all information about matter is lost as it goes over the event horizon (in turn defying the laws of quantum physics).

This model in isotropic coordinates of the universe as a black hole could explain the origin of cosmic inflation, Poplawski theorizes.

Poplawski is a research associate in the IU Department of Physics. He holds an M.S. and a Ph.D. in physics from Indiana University and a M.S. in astronomy from the University of Warsaw, Poland.

Klimmer

Mountain climber
San Diego
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 30, 2010 - 01:10am PT
Port,

I do have a bias and I will readily admit it.

I come from a Christian Cosmological point of view. But I am willing to look into any educated guess and point of view. Empirical data does matter and it can change my point of view.

For some reason, out of all the massive Universe, Earth is a focus. It is also a focus for the Heavenly Hosts. They care what happens here. There is something about GOD's creation of Man. We were made physical and a little lower than the Angels. But he cares about us. They care about us. Some even went so far to falling in love with man and got to "know" Man in the Biblical sense.

I do not know where Heaven is. It would be very cool to know.

The Good Book says GOD is Light. Perhaps his Heavenly Host can also transform as light and travel at the speed of light throughout the Universe. As light you don't have to deal with the mass going off the scale, nor the enormous amounts of energy that are required to travel at these speeds, as Einstein determined would be the case.

I think they are Intra-Terrestrials and not Extra-Terrestrials. Well, I suppose it can be argued that Angels or Fallen Angels are Extra-Terresrial. But their off-spring with mankind, Nephalim, would be Intra-Terrestrial.

I think it is all about our hidden history, and not a distant intellectual life form travelling from a distant Star or Galaxy to be here, with the exception of Angels who can travel at the speed of light, and are therefore not hampered by such constraints.

Can I prove any of this? No. It is hypothesis, speculation, and faith at this time.

Mighty Hiker

climber
Vancouver, B.C.
Apr 30, 2010 - 01:19am PT
As this seems to be developing into parallel threads, here's a fine bit of art from Frogner Park in Oslo, the famous sculpture garden of Gustav Vigeland. It's called Sinnataggen, which roughly means the shrieking baby.
Credit: Mighty Hiker
MisterE

Social climber
Across Town From Easy Street
Apr 30, 2010 - 01:43am PT
I am just fascinated...and tired of popcorn...chocolate anyone?

Just desserts for all!
LithiumMetalman

Trad climber
cesspool central
Apr 30, 2010 - 02:01am PT
Think about it for a moment folks.

This is just an observation on my part:

NASA Space Program & Air Force Space Program

are

2 different programs, yet share 'some' cross-over.

Both program has to disclose budget amount to the public and feds on what, where and how much money is being spent. (There is an exception)

Take this into perspective

NASA's 2010 proposed fiscal budget is $20 billion

http://www.nasa.gov/home/hqnews/2009/may/HQ_09-102_FY2010Budget.html

That's $18-20 billion a year to run, maintain infrastructure and research new technologies.

That may sound alot.


however


Let's look at the Air Force fiscal budget for 2010:

$160.5 billion for 2010 fiscal

http://www.af.mil/news/story.asp?id=123148160

That's just to run the infrastructure, people, modernization.

This does include some research funding ($12 billion went to Space research technologies funding), but not all, from what I understand:

We have to include DARPA funding which the unclassified budget for 2010 fiscal year can be seen here (It's about $3 billion a year, has unclassified monies on Space development)

http://www.darpa.mil/Docs/FY2011PresBudget28Jan10%20Final.pdf

and let's not forget Department of Defense unclassified funding of about $80 billion in research (For aerospace/space budget look at line 5 0602201F - line 9 0602601F)

http://comptroller.defense.gov/defbudget/fy2011/fy2011_r1.pdf

This is just some of the unclassfied funding for space and air programs

This does not include undisclosed funds for further research or development! (This is the exception)

So fiscal recap:

Civilian NASA $ vs Military Air Force $$$


Also:

The Air Force Space program (And all defense programs) can utilize private sector as well as public sector research for further development, it's encouraged:

http://https://www.cfda.gov/index?s=program&mode=form&tab=step1&id=2b425843d94185da0e1258f35505a37b

NASA is only now being encouraged to expand more into the private sector now (always had a prescence)...but if one looks at the history of the Apollo program...NASA utilized both public AND private sectors to greater degree than now...not unlike the Military.

Last but not least:

-NASA must share all technological discoveries with the public as stated in Space Act of 1958

-The Air Force Space Program does not have too.


So what does this mean?

That means money applied to US Air Force Space research, public AND private sectors means an increased utlization of research, resources & most importantly: increase in technological achievements over NASA. (they loaned $200mil to help out NASA with the last launch)

So what does this have to do with the moon?

Well the moon is fantastic source for Helium-3 for nuclear fusion power and as someone said "He who owns the moon, owns energy = dominant power"

so

I would not be too surprised if we have gone back to the moon (after the Apollo program) to claim stake, establish facilities & mine for H-3 for fuel

I wouldn't be too surprised if the military space research had figured out the prototypes, if not more, on nuclear fusion engine technology.

Think that sounds a little too far fetched?

Check out what Helion technologies & Tri-Alpha (that's just a few out of many) have been up to on nuclear fusion technology recently.


Anyways, apologize for the length of the blurb, these are just my thoughts.


As in terms of aliens on the backside of the moon, could be some grain of truth there, but who knows? ;-)

Cheers







MisterE

Social climber
Across Town From Easy Street
Apr 30, 2010 - 02:07am PT
WandaFuca

Social climber
From the gettin place
Apr 30, 2010 - 02:08am PT
Werner likes to dismissively refer to, "mental speculations!"

I don't think there is anything wrong with speculation, but as I said earlier . . .


I'd tell you to use Occam's Razor, but they probably don't let you near anything sharp in your institution.
Klimmer

Mountain climber
San Diego
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 30, 2010 - 02:09am PT
LMN,

All true. NASA is DoD. You have to read the mission statement and charter of NASA carefully and it spells it out. And DoD has a very deep secret pocket.

The book Dark Mission: the Secret History of NASA goes into detail on this.
http://www.darkmission.net/
Mighty Hiker

climber
Vancouver, B.C.
Apr 30, 2010 - 02:17am PT
Eric's photo poetically sums it up.
Klimmer

Mountain climber
San Diego
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 30, 2010 - 03:00am PT
Thanks TomCochrane. Good site.


http://www.earthfiles.com/

April 26, 2010 - Physicist Stephen Hawking Says Cosmic
Alien Life Probable and Perhaps Dangerous.

“To my mathematical brain, the numbers alone make thinking about aliens perfectly rational. The real challenge is to work out what aliens might actually be like. ... If aliens visit us, the outcome would be much as when Columbus landed in America, which didn't turn out well for the Native Americans.” - Stephen Hawking, Ph.D., Theoretical Physicist and Mathematician


Stephen Hawking: alien life is out there, scientist warns
Stephen Hawking has suggested that aliens almost certainly exist but has warned humanity not to try to contact them.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/space/7631252/Stephen-Hawking-alien-life-is-out-there-scientist-warns.html
Klimmer

Mountain climber
San Diego
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 30, 2010 - 03:05am PT
Rokjox,

Good stuff. I didn't know about The X-37B Robotic Space Plane. How difficult would it be to design one for manned flight? Not very me thinks.
LithiumMetalman

Trad climber
cesspool central
Apr 30, 2010 - 03:35am PT
the limiting factor to Space travel is the fraility of the human body.

The human body is a marvel of biological engineering (Nature is just a marvel, the efficiency and natural design)

Let's face it, the human body works well here on Earth (relatively well, user's experience may vary), but it blows in Space. We need oxygen, we can't take more than several G forces before going "splat", our brains cannot handle sensory input at extremely high speed forces, and we need to pee.


So, if one was to travel across space: how so?

Just a speculation:

-Reduction in mass and g-force by cancelling out with negative mass and g-force(a theory, read up on Hermann Bondi's work)

-I think this can be achieved if one was to use inertia damping?

-Move space instead of moving the ship

-Change the state of vaccuum within the vaccuum state to travel faster than light, far fetched, but this is a gut feeling.

-Change the vibratory state of known states, realms, planes, to phase?

-Create a biological self-repairing machine that can handle space, and interdimensional shifts (increased robustness of the sensory system)

-Use said above entities as remote cameras or viewers without risking oneself's frailities

-Understand time does not work the exactly same in space as it does on Earth

-ok that was er fun.







LithiumMetalman

Trad climber
cesspool central
Apr 30, 2010 - 03:54am PT
Using an unmanned craft prolly allows for

-reduction in pilot error
-faster & better response time
-ability to perform maneuvers that could kill a pilot
-Stay in space longer than a human

Usage wise? Who knows.

X-37B looks dated.
Tomcat

Trad climber
Chatham N.H.
Apr 30, 2010 - 06:36am PT
I MUST have one of those shoulder patches showing the Lunar Module and the Command/ Orbiter with presumably nylon (or perhaps Dyneema?)straps around the "Ark",lifting off.

Must I tell you.
Pate

Trad climber
Apr 30, 2010 - 09:10am PT
LithiumMetal is so obviously you RokTard- you are such a loser!

Hah! After his first post you post congratulating him in less time than it takes to read the rambling moronic post.

When you are known for writing the longest, stupidest, pointless threads you stand out like a sore thumb.

Nice try Wolf Boy.
Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
Why'djya leave the ketchup on the table?
Apr 30, 2010 - 10:51am PT
Ummm, dudes?

Before you start dismissing Klimmer and signing on with Rocky, perhaps you should consider this:

[url]http://www.sacbee.com/2010/04/26/2707159/us-defense-agencys-hypersonic.html[/url]



The hypersonic glider robot thingie disappeared. That's right, they lost it. Last week, it launched from Vandenberg and was promptly lost. Gone.

It just went up, telemetry was 'lost' and it disappeared.

Dept of Defense has been mum on the matter, since.

GONE, I tell you.

Put that in your pipes and smoke it! OK some of you are hard drinkers, its okay if taken neat.

DMT
goatboy smellz

climber
Nederland
Apr 30, 2010 - 10:57am PT
Maybe it's on MT Ararat.
TomCochrane

Trad climber
Boulder Creek CA
Apr 30, 2010 - 11:23am PT
http://www.flixxy.com/hubble-ultra-deep-field-3d.htm
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Apr 30, 2010 - 11:41am PT
The X-37B is the logical successor to the apparently shuttered 'Aurora' program. Why endanger human lives plus go to the expense of providing potty facilities which we all know was a major oversight on the B-2 program?

From all I've read the X-37 launched successfully and is in orbit and that's all the Air Force is gonna tell us. It could be up there for up to 9 months!
Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
Why'djya leave the ketchup on the table?
Apr 30, 2010 - 12:03pm PT
Its GONE bro.

DMT
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Apr 30, 2010 - 12:08pm PT
Dingus,
Where'd you see that they lost telemetry? Are you sure Klimmer didn't 'jack it to go find his Ark?
LithiumMetalman

Trad climber
cesspool central
Apr 30, 2010 - 01:09pm PT
Confusing the lost with the HTV-2 glider?

http://www.defensenews.com/story.php?i=4601925&c=AME&s=AIR
bmacd

Trad climber
Beautiful, BC
May 1, 2010 - 12:31am PT
apollo 20 hoax debunked here ...

http://apollohoax.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=theories&action=display&thread=1000&page=1

the most obvious flaw being you cannot secretly launch a Apollo class Saturn 5 rocket from anywhere in the United States, particularly from Vandenberg eastward over continental United States. The Stage 1 booster lands in Nevada or Arizona on someones head !!
Cosmiccragsman

Trad climber
AKA Dwain, from Apple Valley, California
May 1, 2010 - 01:49am PT
I don't know why so many people don't beliebe in Spaceships.
I'll sell you plans to mine for ONLY 25 Million bucks.

Chiloe

Trad climber
Lee, NH
May 1, 2010 - 09:21am PT
Just watched last year's indie sci-fi movie Moon, and thought that was pretty cool.
No massive arks, but the FX are well enough done -- especially when you think about
what they had to show the main characters doing.

Director Duncan Jones says he wanted to make a "grown-up" space film, influenced by
the feel of earlier movies such as Silent Running, Outland, or the first Alien.

I thought he did that pretty well, and also caught some weird spirit of the old Twilight
Zone
scripts.
Klimmer

Mountain climber
San Diego
Topic Author's Reply - May 1, 2010 - 10:45am PT
RetiredAFB and the other Moonwalker1966delta, don't they mention the launch of Apollo 19 and Apollo 20 were at night? And Moonwalker1966delta has posted supposed footage of the Apollo 19 (or Apollo 20?) launch, showing that it was indeed at night.

Officially, there was only one night launch in the Apollo program, and that was Apollo 17. HHhhhhhmmmmmm. Perhaps practice for the clandestine night launches to come?

See this wiki page and scroll to the bottom:
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:tVW0JOzNvEgJ:en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saturn_V+Were+any+Apollo+rockets+launched+at+night%3F&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

Here is Moonwalker166delta site with the launch of Apollo 19:
http://www.youtube.com/user/moonwalker1966delta#p/a/u/0/L4kSmezXPNo



All we have to do is match the official night launch footage of Apollo 17 to the night launch footage of Apollo 19 or 20 and see if they are one and the same.

Me thinks, maybe they are not exactly the same, which would then indicate the night launch footage that Moonwalker1966delta has posted is something other than Apollo 17 launching. Perhaps it is Apollo 19 (or maybe footage of Apollo 20). Under the cover of night and late at night, you could even launch now from Vandenberg and no one would know except for the noise. Remember, this was back in the mid 70's. Easy to get away with a lot of stuff with no one looking.

Also the footage of the Astronauts getting into the capsule near the launch time. You do see faces and no insignia on the astronauts. Seems someone could press NASA to exactly identify everyone in the image upon boarding and who exactly are all those technicians? When exactly did this event take place? We want the names and identies of all people in the footage. And we want the exact time and location of where this took place.

It is time for some FOIA requests.



Edit:

Also FOIA requests for all the hi-resolution imagery that no doubt the LRO has now taken of the site and region near 18.5 degrees South, and 117.5 degrees East on the Moon. All of it and from different swaths so that the entire site can be viewed in Hi-Res 3D.
Port

Trad climber
San Diego
May 1, 2010 - 03:15pm PT
Even if you had all the evidence to the contrary, you would find some loop whole to justify the conspiracy.
Pate

Trad climber
May 1, 2010 - 03:21pm PT
RokJox can't let anything die, fighting a war on two fronts- it's never worked out for the nations that tried.

(ps, did that lame post up there @ you get axed RJ? at least i refuted it ;) had your back on that one, i'm not totally indecent.)
Pate

Trad climber
May 1, 2010 - 03:24pm PT
that lame comment @ felons voting
Mike Bolte

Trad climber
Planet Earth
May 1, 2010 - 03:33pm PT
clandestine night launches? Do you reckon they used some kind of cloaking device Klimmer?

HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Arid-zona
May 1, 2010 - 03:38pm PT
Klimmer is 7 kinds of awesome.
Port

Trad climber
San Diego
May 1, 2010 - 04:34pm PT
You're basing your arguments on grainy youtube videos from sources we know nothing about. I've never heard these names before and Im sure there is more to their background than they let on. They make claims that are so patently unprovable that it brings into questions their objectivity. But thats what allows you to continue making claims like Arcs on the Moon, because none of these hypotheses can be disproven.
Mighty Hiker

climber
Vancouver, B.C.
May 1, 2010 - 04:47pm PT
Just what is it that lays sideways on the ground, yet possesses enough structural integrity to appear to have clearance under it and is about an eighth mile long of free hanging tubular material?
A giant fossilized alien turd?
Klimmer

Mountain climber
San Diego
Topic Author's Reply - May 1, 2010 - 07:37pm PT
Here is official NASA footage from the Apollo 17 launch . . .

Launch of Apollo 17 (TV Feed and NASA Footage). This is the only "official" night launch of an Apollo mission:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rmwc8E9fCLI



See this wiki page and scroll to the bottom. It verifies Apollo 17 was the only night launch:
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:tVW0JOzNvEgJ:en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saturn_V+Were+any+Apollo+rockets+launched+at+night%3F&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us





Compare and contrast that with the night launch of "Apollo 19" posted by Moonwalker1966delta:
http://www.youtube.com/user/moonwalker1966delta#p/a/u/0/L4kSmezXPNo




Clearly the 2 are very different in so many ways. Assuming nothing is faked:

1) the towers are different color.
2) the towers are different in construction.
3) the markings on these Saturn V rockets are different.
4) the artificial lighting on both rockets is different.


These seem to be different launches. NASA only admits to one official Saturn V night launch and that is with Apollo 17. Obviously there was more than one Saturn V night launch.

The question is why, when only one is admitted to?
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
May 1, 2010 - 07:48pm PT
The question is why, when only one is admitted to?

Simple, they didn't want to pay overtime.
Pate

Trad climber
May 1, 2010 - 09:55pm PT
More pictures and diagrams to prove complete idiocy.
Klimmer

Mountain climber
San Diego
Topic Author's Reply - May 1, 2010 - 10:14pm PT
Remember, substance and not weak minded knee-jerk attacks.

Diesel_Smoke

Big Wall climber
May 1, 2010 - 10:19pm PT
"See this wiki page and scroll to the bottom. It verifies Apollo 17 was the only night launch:
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:tVW0JOzNvEgJ:en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saturn_V+Were+any+Apollo+rockets+launched+at+night%3F&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us "

The authoritative source is wikipedia?

The problem with wikipedia is virtually anyone can edit wikipedia... Although I'm not implying or inferring any quack or delusional individual would ever publish inaccurate information that may or may not corroborate a conspiracy theory, or alternatively, that any reasonable individual would ever solely base any theory on Wikipedia’s citation.
Klimmer

Mountain climber
San Diego
Topic Author's Reply - May 1, 2010 - 10:41pm PT
Another thing to do is to look at every Ingress Room image of the Astronauts loading onto the Apollo Saturn V rockets for each of the missions Apollo 4 - Apollo 17 and identify them, and post them in the order according to the Apollo mission number.

Then carefully compare them to the Ingress Room images and video posted by RetiredAFB of Apollo 20. Do any of the Ingress Room images from any of the public known official Apollo missions match what was posted as Apollo 20?

If they do not, then that is evidence the images are not of Apollo 4 - Apollo 17, but of some "other" unidentified mission.

This would be more evidence in the Apollo 20 camp. Pretty hard to fake Ingress Room images and real video of said event. How does one go about faking something like that without a massive Hollywood budget?

From the youtube video compilation of RetiredAFB original videos by Ramistrip.com:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NZZWDpICa_U&feature=player_embedded



Ingress Room Image from Apollo 10 mission:





Ingress Room Image from Apoll 12 mission:






Ingress Room Images from the Apollo 20 mission. Do any other official NASA Apollo missions exactly match this Ingress Room look, the 3 technicians (one NASA and 2 from Rockwell International) and the 2 Astronauts loading? If not then this is indication that these images and video are not from any official Apollo mission. This would be more evidence in support of Apollo 20:








We also have 3 names:

Commander William Rutledge

Astronaut Leona Marietta Synder

Cosmonaut Alexey Arkhipovich Leonov
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexey_Leonov



We also have a Apollo 20 Mission Patch:

Chief

climber
May 1, 2010 - 10:45pm PT
Very interesting post.
Even more interesting responses.

With the advent of digital editing, still images, especially grainy ones from the moon can no longer stand alone as conclusive evidence of anything. Having said that, Klimmer's suggestion is no more outlandish than many shaky theories accepted by humans.

The world is flat.
Mary was impregnated by god and experienced an immaculate conception and virgin birth.
The devil made me do it.
The sinking of the Lusitania was unprovoked.
Pearl Harbor was a surprise attack.
NV patrol boats carried out torpedo attacks on the Maddux in the Tonkin.
Men in caves shut down US air defenses and brought down the Towers with hijacked airplanes.
Tower Seven.
The Iraqi's were building weapons of mass destruction.
Unregulated free market economies are good for us.

Klimmer

Mountain climber
San Diego
Topic Author's Reply - May 1, 2010 - 10:46pm PT
DS,

The fact that Apollo 17 is the only official night time Apollo launch is easily verified or debunked. I looked. Yes, Wikipedia sometimes gives out bad data but it can easily be cross-referenced and verified with other sources.
Diesel_Smoke

Big Wall climber
May 1, 2010 - 11:01pm PT
Well, if your source is as solid as the bible I'll believe you - Conspiracy!

What is your anticipated course of action? Have you considered limiting your audience, perhaps initially confined to ST for the preservation of your identity and life? These issues are dangerous, and proper protocols must exist to ensure your safety! I've seen the movie Conspiracy Theory and I'm well versed in paranormal activity and small weapons combat (primarily nunchaku and crossbow) . If you are needing a partner or confidant, here is my video application: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MQYSTWVeApI
The user formerly known as stzzo

climber
Sneaking up behind you
May 1, 2010 - 11:13pm PT
193 posts and no references to the bible code???

I'm very disappointed.
bmacd

Trad climber
Beautiful, BC
May 1, 2010 - 11:24pm PT
nothing photographic, or video in nature can be considered evidence in the 21st century

you need a body and DNA test results
Pate

Trad climber
May 1, 2010 - 11:32pm PT
When does your acid generally start to wear off?
WandaFuca

Social climber
From the gettin place
May 1, 2010 - 11:48pm PT
I'm pretty well read. I enjoy a good story. With fiction, be it movies or books, you have to suspend your disbelief.

But for many people, that which allows them to enjoy fiction, is also that which allows them to believe the lies of politicians, conspiracy theories, and religion.

When a narrative makes a claim to truth or factuality you need to suspend your belief.
Klimmer

Mountain climber
San Diego
Topic Author's Reply - May 1, 2010 - 11:55pm PT
bmacd,

Really? Wow, then you know nothing of the intelligence, remote sensing, and scientific world.


From video posted by RetiredAFB:
http://www.revver.com/video/797542/apollo-20-ebe-mona-lisa-tv-unscheduled-transmission/


I think the following image of the Astronaut/Cosmonaut is of Alexey Leonov, and not Cmd William Rutledge of the supposed Apollo 20 mission from within the LM on the surface of the Moon:




Here is an official image of Alexey Leonov near that period of time:




Notice the balding head, the long straight bridge nose, the mouth, and the deep facial lines on either side of the nose outlining the cheeks. I think it is Alexey. And in reduced gravity environments of 1.63m/s^2 acceleration due to the Moon's reduced gravity, compared to 9.8m/s^2 acceleration here on Earth, facial features will distort a little.

It is Alexey or they found a look-alike actor to fake this video.
Klimmer

Mountain climber
San Diego
Topic Author's Reply - May 2, 2010 - 12:21am PT
I will do a thorough facial analysis soon with ratios of both images on Alexey. The ratios of certain facial features of the actual known image of Alexey and the one from Apollo 20 on the surface of the Moon. My hypothesis is that facial ratios will be exactly the same. Identical.
Port

Trad climber
San Diego
May 2, 2010 - 12:21am PT
OK. Who is retiredAFB? Who are his colleagues? What is his background? Is he objective? What is his reputation? What is his agenda (everyone has one)? A large number of your theories are based in his videos. Have you applied the same criticism to him as you have NASA?

These hypotheses your've presented are outlandish. Any life form would need to travel maybe a million times the speed of light to move through the universe. And that technology is in the form of an Arc? like the one Noah built? Seems unlikely to me

I hope you can understand my skepticism. And Im not saying I cant be convinced. Its just what you provide as "evidence" is highly dubious.
WandaFuca

Social climber
From the gettin place
May 2, 2010 - 12:24am PT

I will do a thorough facial analysis soon with ratios of both images on Alexey. The ratios of certain facial features of the actual known image of Alexey and the one from Apollo 20 on the surface of the Moon. My hypothesis is that facial ratios will be exactly the same. Identical.



Duuuuuude . . .
Klimmer

Mountain climber
San Diego
Topic Author's Reply - May 2, 2010 - 12:32am PT
Proving something massive is there on the Moon is the easy part, if NASA cooperates, proving it's origin is another.

We don't have to prove that to begin with, although if Apollo 20 did indeed happen, then NASA has a major scoop on that info (of course).

Obviously, if something massive is there then it came from somewhere. Yes? I agree that that is hard to fathom. But reality is, regardless of our preconceived limited scientific understandings.

I've already stated my hypothesis regarding its origin.
mojede

Trad climber
Butte, America
May 2, 2010 - 12:33am PT
"Any life form would need to travel maybe a million times the speed of light to move through the universe."--Port




It would depend on how far away from Earth they started from, if you want to use the technology available to us today.

Your statement's exaggeration shows through as ignorance--not meaning to offend here, just pointing out the weakness in the sentence proffering...
Klimmer

Mountain climber
San Diego
Topic Author's Reply - May 2, 2010 - 12:36am PT
Wanda,

You do realize that facial features and their distances and these ratios are unique identifiers don't you?

Photogrammetry can be done on the human face and it works very well for identification purposes. It's empirical. It's reproduceable. It's science.
LithiumMetalman

Trad climber
cesspool central
May 2, 2010 - 01:43am PT
This thread is still going?

Wow.

Rock on!
Wayno

Big Wall climber
Seattle, WA
May 2, 2010 - 01:47am PT
They are not ready.
LithiumMetalman

Trad climber
cesspool central
May 2, 2010 - 01:51am PT
“For it is a land of illusion, a place in the mind, a shimmering mirage of riches and mystery and death. These illusions have distorted its landscape and contorted its history.”

Richard E. Lingenfilter.
Jim Brennan

Trad climber
Vancouver Canada
May 2, 2010 - 02:02am PT
We come in peace.


Port

Trad climber
San Diego
May 2, 2010 - 02:02am PT
When you have pictures of an actual space craft ( not blurry black and white photos or computer renditions) Ill believe. And I did watch the posted videos. They're hardly objective.

I think the real reason you all love this stuff is that it makes you feel smarter and more enlightened than the general public. You don't realize it but you've created your own little science fiction world in which you play a leading role as an investigator. It scares me. Seriously.
Port

Trad climber
San Diego
May 2, 2010 - 02:13am PT
mojede, Im not exaggerating. I said Universe, not galaxy or solar system. It would take 13 billion light years to cross our universe. Maybe they are closer, but I doubt it. Theres really no way to know.
Jaybro

Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
May 2, 2010 - 02:20am PT
Send toiet paper?
Flush the moon?
Mighty Hiker

climber
Vancouver, B.C.
May 2, 2010 - 02:20am PT
There's not only an ark on the far side of the Moon, but the Martians love us.
Credit: Mars Global Explorer/NASA
http://www.spaceref.com/news/viewsr.html?pid=11874
Port

Trad climber
San Diego
May 2, 2010 - 02:24am PT


People say they see Jesus in this tree. I see tree bark.
Watusi

Social climber
Newport, OR
May 2, 2010 - 02:28am PT
Russ says they've located these creatures on earth...

I think they are more like this, myself...
Port

Trad climber
San Diego
May 2, 2010 - 02:29am PT
"they" could be closer, youre right. But to move efficient through space they would need to travel at light speed no? Even the closest planets with stars in their systems are 15 lights years away.
Port

Trad climber
San Diego
May 2, 2010 - 02:32am PT
And Yes. I would need to see them. So until then this is a pretty stupid discussion. Good luck finding this spaceship on the moon. peace.
Port

Trad climber
San Diego
May 2, 2010 - 03:24am PT
This guy is your primary source? Or are these lies told to hide the REAL truth.
http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/User:Moby-Dick4000/Apollo_20_hoax

The Apollo 20 hoax is a story told in a series of YouTube videos of a phony manned lunar mission whose purpose was to retrieve ancient alien artifacts from the moon. Thierry Speth, a French video artist, claimed to be the perpetrator of the hoax on 9 July 2007 on Need2Know.eu, an internet bulletin board.[1] However, no news organization has ever attempted to verify Speth's claim. The videos have drawn over 200,000 views since their appearance on YouTube.

In April, 2007 a series of videos began appearing on YouTube under the username retiredafb telling the story of Apollo 20.[2] Then on 25 March 2007, Italian ufologist Luca Scantanburlo interviewed somebody who identified himself as William Rutledge who claimed to be the commander of the Apollo 20 crew. Rutledge also claimed to be the account owner of retiredafb. However, Scantanburlo never met Rutledge in person because he conducted the interview over Yahoo! Messenger .[3]
During the interview, Rutledge claimed Apollo 20 was a top-secret mission launched in mid August of 1976 from Vandenberg Air Force Base in Santa Barbara, California and conducted jointly by the United States and the former Soviet Union. He said the other mission members were American Leona Snyder (an apparently fictitious person) and former Soviet cosmonaut Aleksei Leonov, the first human being to walk in space. The purported lunar landing site of the mission was near Delporte crater on the far side of the moon. Rutledge said the videos show that he and Leonov discovered the remains of an ancient lunar civilization.[4][5] He also said they brought back artifacts to earth for study, including a hibernating female alien.
Four months later, video artist Speth claimed responsibility for the hoax and explained that the entire story was fabricated.
[edit]YouTube videos

The hoaxer began posting the videos on April Fool's Day, a hint that the story was nothing more than an elaborate prank. He/she has since moved most of the videos to Revver.com under the same username (retiredafb).[6] However, others are scattered throughout YouTube posted by several account users, thereby making it difficult to determine the true identity of the hoaxer. Each continues to draw thousands of views.
Despite the realistic appearance of the videos, amateurs have easily debunked them on YouTube and elsewhere on the internet.[citation needed]
The videos are short, each only lasting a couple of minutes. If viewed in their intended sequence, they tell a partial story of the mission, starting with astronauts boarding Apollo 20 and ending with the extraordinary "discoveries" on the moon. They include the following images:
Ruins of an alien spacecraft
Ruins of an alien city [7]
The body of a hibernating female alien [8]
Apollo 20 flight plans and mission patches
The launch of Apollo 20
William Rutledge walking on the moon [9]
[edit]The truth behind the hoax

Like many hoaxes, this story is a mixture of facts and fiction. The starting point for it are photos that Apollo 15 astronauts took while in lunar orbit. The photos show what look like a cigar-shaped object resting in a crater. The hoaxer used these photos to create the image of pock-marked alien spacecraft on the moon. The NASA photos are real.[10] However, NASA never claimed they include images of alien spacecraft. The object in question is nothing more than a natural part of the lunar terrain.
In truth, Apollo 20 was a mission that never got off the ground -- literally. It was one of three lunar missions NASA cancelled due to lack of funding along with Apollos 18 and 19. The last NASA lunar mission was Apollo 17, launched in 1972. The next Apollo mission was the Apollo-Soyuz Test Project coordinated by the United States and the former Soviet Union in 1975. However, its mission was to remain in low earth orbit and to dock with a Soviet Soyuz spacecraft, something it accomplished successfully. Some mistakenly refer to that mission as Apollo 18.
Some of the stages for the Saturn V rockets intended for NASA’s three cancelled lunar missions had already been constructed before their cancellation. According to the hoaxer's story, these were all used on lunar missions for Apollos 18, 19 and 20. In reality NASA used one of these to launch Skylab into orbit in 1973. The others are on display at three American space centers: the John F. Kennedy Space Center near Cape Canaveral, Florida; the Johnson Space Center in Houston, Texas and the United States Space & Rocket Center in Huntsville, Alabama.
Timid TopRope

Social climber
Paradise, CA
May 2, 2010 - 10:30am PT
Everyone knows the moon is made of cheese. Therefore a ship that landed on the moon would get moldy very fast so not likely to be a ship.

The only other theory that I believe to be absolutely and irrefutably true is that the concept of the moon is a total lie. It is a night fairy to help us see at night when the sun fairy is sleeping.

The night fairy called the moon is much too small to have anything other than maybe a flea on it. Just use your common sense next time you look up at this "supposed" moon and you can see it is not much bigger than your fingernail. And some nights it is not there at all because it needs to sleep just like you and me.

I keep correcting moon entries on Wiki to explain this but some others that think they know better keep putting in their own gobbly-gook and change it back.

Therefore, I beseech those on ST to suspend their false theories and accept mine, the only truth to be told.

Again, it is impossible to have these moon conspiracies as there is no moon, but only a lie you have been fed since a child.
Klimmer

Mountain climber
San Diego
Topic Author's Reply - May 2, 2010 - 12:28pm PT
Rokjox,

Thanks for mentioning updating Google Earth. I did so also recently and didn't realize that they have included better resolution base imagery from Lunar Orbiter Mosaic for the Moon. Very cool. All I had to do was click on the radio button and voila!

Although with the newest LRO imagery posted and available we wouldn't be doing this. Everyone would know the truth then.

So I re-did my work and now it is much improved with better lat./long. and it is now possible to kinda measure the craft on the better imagery, although it is still very pixelated and blurred.














One thing people need to realize, there are indeed faked videos within this story. Anyone who has been following this story since April of 2007 knows this. The thing is, there is real, mixed with fake. It takes time to sort through it all.

This is classic COINTELPRO and our government has a really long established track record, and long time experience at doing this sort of thing. Mix real with fake, then you have plausible deniability, can denie it, yet at the same time let real info get through. This works to debunk the story within most people's mind. If some of it is faked then they can buy into it all being faked. Voila! story debunked. But not so fast. It also serves in allowing a story to stew and simmer for a long, long time, allowing people to get used to the idea over long periods of time, depressing the shock value.

I have no doubt that the massive object is there, and it is intelligently designed. Did they land and go over and retrieve an alien? I don't know about that. I do believe at the least, that NASA Apollo missions flew over for a closer look at a minimum. This maybe is all that Apollo 20 did. It could be they never landed. Wanted to, but didn't. The alien footage maybe a very elaborate hoax. A what if we did, what would we have found?

I try to stick with the imagery that looks real and can be verified and measured against what we know is real. Photogrammetry can be done with all images and there are cross-referencing techniques that we can do to know and verify if the imagery is real, or faked with bad clay models or digital fakes.

It is much harder faking imagery within the Ingress Room of the Apollo Missions, within the LM, real human faces, and real imagery from NASA Apollo missions, that have indeed taken many images of the site on the farside of the Moon.

It will take time to sort through and really cross reference, and validate all the good imagery using techniques of photogrammetry. What needs to be done is to cross reference all the really good flyover imagery that appears real in all of its form, to those images that we know are real and officially from NASA. Photogrammetry can do this. It takes time and patience, but it can be done. The stuff that looks like clay modelling is clay modelling. I don't even consider that.

Even the best faked modelling, and faked imagery can not be done so well as to mimic exactly all the measurements that can be done and the ratios measured and compared between suspect imagery and real authentic imagery. That is why careful, precise photogrammetry works.

And like I said, photogrammetry can also be done with the human face to help verify the identity of someone.
Mike Bolte

Trad climber
Planet Earth
May 2, 2010 - 12:34pm PT
this is really unbelievable.
Klimmer

Mountain climber
San Diego
Topic Author's Reply - May 2, 2010 - 01:29pm PT
COINTELPRO has never stopped. All US government agencies into spying and intelligence probably have there own programs: FBI, CIA, DOD, etc.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COINTELPRO

On Wikileaks not too long ago you could look at and download the entire DOD FM Manual on COINTELPRO used within Special Forces. That manual is probably still up for browsing and download. Read it and your eyes will be opened. Just how far do you think our government is willing to go to fake things?

Read it and weep for our country.

Wikileaks: U.S. Special Forces Counter-Insurgency Manual FM 31-20-3
June 16th, 2008
http://cryptogon.com/?p=2751

In the above article there is a link to the original FM document at Wikileaks . . .


Wikileaks is still in fund raising mode, so they are not posting their searchable archive.



Here is a link that will work:

http://thepiratebay.org/torrent/4246204/US_Special_Forces_counter-insurgency_manual_FM_31-20-3
monolith

climber
Berkeley, CA
May 2, 2010 - 02:41pm PT
Haha, any evidence debunking a conspiracy is considered countelpro.

Who can argue with that?

Keeping chewing your 'mental gum' Klimmer, that's all it is.

But you might consider spitting it out, instead of swallowing whole.
Karl Baba

Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
May 2, 2010 - 03:06pm PT
If you believe in Angels, aren't they just a high vibration alien?

Physics travel restrictions on beings on different dimensions are probably different. Do they charge for carry on luggage?

We make so many assumptions about things that are far out of league of understanding. We don't know what our next major technological shifts and breakthroughs are going to be, much less for folks who have may have had advanced civilization for millions of years, not just 10,000.

Like Seti. What make them think aliens would be using radiowaves to communicate?

Peace

Karl
Pate

Trad climber
May 2, 2010 - 03:14pm PT
Everyone knows what anal probes are for and how aliens communicate.
Credit: Pate
Credit: Pate
Credit: Pate
Mighty Hiker

climber
Vancouver, B.C.
May 2, 2010 - 04:57pm PT
Wasn't Klimmer supposed to be at the Woodsonfest? Was he sighted there, and did anyone get a photo? Has anyone here met Klimmer, besides maybe Weld_It?
mojede

Trad climber
Butte, America
May 2, 2010 - 06:15pm PT
Hoes before bros:-)
Klimmer

Mountain climber
San Diego
Topic Author's Reply - May 2, 2010 - 06:58pm PT
Clinton White House Chief John Podesta on UFO disclosure
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R2Sz-MgoFos

Steven Spielberg on UFO's and Jimmy Carter 1977
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P9TY6yg4ejM&feature=related

Ex President Jimmy Carter UFO
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XrJeBCi47ME&feature=related

Ray-Gun's ALIEN speech to UN
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ag44dRO8LEA&feature=related

Ufo Disclosure Edgar Mitchell CNN Obama Administration April 21 2009
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G4x-EGrMW_I&feature=related

Ex Astronaut Says Feds 'Know' UFOs Exist 21.4.2009
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WlOZtfy0MwY&feature=related

Astronaut Gordon Cooper Talks About UFOs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dvPR8T1o3Dc&feature=related

NASA Gordon Cooper UFOs are visiting the Earth
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tkBhME9RCjc&feature=related

Astronaut Buzz Aldrin Recounts Apollo 11 UFO Encounter
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XlkV1ybBnHI&feature=related

Buzz Aldrin Reveals Existence of Monolith on Mars Moon
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bDIXvpjnRws&feature=related

U.F.O DISCLOSURE PROJECT -FULL VERSION
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7vyVe-6YdUk&feature=related

Clinton's (UFO) Speech in Hong Kong 14 Sep 2005
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c3F3CXspsuo&feature=related

The Vatican's Take on Aliens?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8gB7QhHcYIE&NR=1&feature=fvwp

YouTube - Michio Kaku On Aliens On Physics ...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kw8dcb8iKSM&feature=related


UFO Contact - Former Canadian Defence Minister
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RGyFWyNuF3s&feature=related




C'mon guys. You naysayers need to get caught up. Many are way ahead of you.



Pull your heads out of the ground and take a look around.
GDavis

Social climber
SOL CAL
May 2, 2010 - 07:25pm PT
"I still can't believe Klimmer is a teacher."

You must not be familiar with the way things work in California.
bmacd

Trad climber
Beautiful, BC
May 2, 2010 - 07:44pm PT
The Motivation for hoaxing videos on Youtube is a program called Adsense revenue sharing by Google. I think it's what Chris uses on Supertopo.

With the kind of view numbers these UFO/Ark Apollo 20 conspiracy videos generate it would be quite lucrative.
Mighty Hiker

climber
Vancouver, B.C.
May 2, 2010 - 07:47pm PT
Which would prove that there really is one born every minute...

Anyway, what if the ark came to earth at the Arking Plot in Camp 4?
Klimmer

Mountain climber
San Diego
Topic Author's Reply - May 2, 2010 - 07:48pm PT
I feel really sorry for you guys.

It must be scarry in your little narrow naive private sheltered worlds.

No substance just ridicule. The definative evidence of a small mind.
WandaFuca

Social climber
From the gettin place
May 2, 2010 - 08:03pm PT
I feel really sorry for you guys.

It must be scarry in your little narrow naive private sheltered worlds.

No substance just ridicule. The definative evidence of a small mind.


It must be exciting in your upside-down world of gullibility, where the most fantastic and outrageously improbable explanations appear to be the most credible and reasonable.

What's next, Venusian Leprechauns?
Pate

Trad climber
May 2, 2010 - 08:18pm PT
"I feel really sorry for you guys"

There you go Klimmer, that's it in a nutshell. Your condescending attitude is what gets you the replies you get in the tones you don't like.

Take that condescending attitude and use it for a self administered anal probe.
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Full Silos of Iowa
May 2, 2010 - 08:18pm PT
Weschrist- That was so well said it made me feel good again. Thanks.

How does a teacher spell so poorly? Isn't he supposed to have a higher standard to hold himself to?

I do wonder now if he ain't a troll. Talk about being had as a possibility!


Mighty Hiker wrote-
"Wasn't Klimmer supposed to be at the Woodsonfest? Was he sighted there, and did anyone get a photo? Has anyone here met Klimmer..."

Anyone?
Mighty Hiker

climber
Vancouver, B.C.
May 2, 2010 - 08:19pm PT
Hey, I got the word "plot" in my last post. What more do you want?
L0CKER

Social climber
State of Confusion
May 2, 2010 - 08:21pm PT

"Right now you should watch me work as a hoe in the garden!"

































































































photo not found
Missing photo ID#155830
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Full Silos of Iowa
May 2, 2010 - 08:25pm PT
Pate wrote-
"There you go Klimmer, that's it in a nutshell. Your condescending attitude is what gets you the replies you get..."

I'm thinking now he thrives on it. Look how he's come back with a vengence with this stuff. -After being "outed and shopped" as Mister E said a few pages back.

Paging LOCKER...
L0CKER

Social climber
State of Confusion
May 2, 2010 - 08:27pm PT

"Paging LOCKER... "

















YOU RANG??????????
Pate

Trad climber
May 2, 2010 - 08:36pm PT
He's the Garden Bottom Bitch.

I sometimes think that condescension is a last ditch attempt to win some sort of argument or disagreement- it is the ultimate dismissal of someone's views or beliefs.

I don't feel sorry for you Klimmer- I hold you accountable for your ignorance.
Klimmer

Mountain climber
San Diego
Topic Author's Reply - May 2, 2010 - 08:38pm PT
Yep. Its really sad.

The Bully Club of ST, is alive and well. The reason many have left ST.

None of you ever really talk substance, only ad hominem attacks constantly.


All we get are Cyber Bullies. You're infamous on ST. It gets really old.
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Full Silos of Iowa
May 2, 2010 - 08:38pm PT
Pate wrote-
"I don't feel sorry for you Klimmer- I hold you accountable for your ignorance."

Damn straight.

I'm a fan of Sam Harris, whose stance is that there's a place for shame, for shaming in society, and for shaming those who pander bronze-age ignorance and superstition in the 21st century. My stance, too.

Klimmer's inspired me to strengthen this stance, I think.


Yeah, here comes the Talking Points vocabulary of the supernaturalists and crazies, too. "Cyber-bullies!" "Hate!" "Haters!" "Arrogant!" "Attackers!" Don't let this gilligan reframe it.

"None of you ever really talk substance..."
Rich!

What do you want to talk about? Ohm's Law? Actin-myosin filament theory as a basis for muscular movement and behavior? Carl Sagan's "Cosmic Calender"? Environmental conditions on Titan that might be conducive to life. Mitochondria? Switching power supplies? Derivation of E=mc2. (Have you done it?) Game theory? Prisoner's Dilemma? and how it's kinda playing out in the fossil fuel depletion? the proof to five and only five perfect solids? What? C'mon.

Post up something "substantive" that one gets in college science or graduate school and you'll get different responses.

You baffle with b.s. You don't dazzle with any brilliance. Go read a Lubert Stryer Biochemistry book, come back, then post up all that crazy crap.
Mighty Hiker

climber
Vancouver, B.C.
May 2, 2010 - 08:47pm PT
Perhaps we need to have a meeting at the Integratron to sort this out?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Integratron

Anyway, the people capable of believing in an Apollo 20 mission seem much the same as those who believe that Apollo 11 never happened.
WandaFuca

Social climber
From the gettin place
May 2, 2010 - 08:49pm PT
Anyway, the people capable of believing in an Apollo 20 mission seem much the same as those who believe that Apollo never happened.



Reality lies somewhere between Werner and Klimmer.





WandaFuca

Social climber
From the gettin place
May 2, 2010 - 08:54pm PT
Maybe Klimmer can get to the bottom of this cosmic celtic conspiracy . . .


















































Credit: WandaFuca


High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Full Silos of Iowa
May 2, 2010 - 08:57pm PT
Anyway, Klimmer, thanks for being our "poster child" or simply personification here at the Taco for you know what. You're our opportunity, or, let me speak for myself, my opportunity, to vent. Again, thanks. Feels good.
Klimmer

Mountain climber
San Diego
Topic Author's Reply - May 2, 2010 - 08:59pm PT
Q: Why would you ever post on a OP topic that you are not interested in or think completely out of this world and bat-poop crazy?

No one is forcing you to respond.

I skip topics and threads all the time. If I don't have anything constructive to say, I pass it by.

I do not attack anyone. I will call out bad behavior. Apparently you haven't heard of manners or the Golden Rule.



Recall, the OP is about the massive object on the farside of the Moon.
monolith

climber
Berkeley, CA
May 2, 2010 - 09:09pm PT
Hey Klimmer, was this one of your 'constructive' posts?

http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.php?topic_id=1126598&msg=1126806#msg1126806

You know, the one about angels f*#king humans, creating supernatural offspring that pissed off God and confirms the angry, violent, old testament God.

High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Full Silos of Iowa
May 2, 2010 - 09:10pm PT
We don't "attack" anyone either. We are men and women of laws, afterall. We too "call out bad behavior". What's more, we call out bad belief, too, as it bears on better practices in the practice of living. So the point is, there is a reason, or reasons, behind it.

Reminder. Beliefs matter. Beliefs are "behavioral drivers" in the human species. (e.g., That's why the world is having a problem with Islamic jihadists right now.) That's the modern understanding since the 16th century.

re: 1. "attack" 2. "bully" 3. "hate" Watch your words. Words matter, too. (Unless you're a hip-hop artist, then I for one will be more forgiving. But your pic a few pages back and your posts so far don't suggest it.)


EDIT Yeah, Monolith, ain't that something.
Klimmer

Mountain climber
San Diego
Topic Author's Reply - May 2, 2010 - 09:22pm PT
Monolith,

I certainly didn't state it like you did.

And yes, that is what the Book of Genesis discusses and the Book of Enoch.

I can tell you don't have faith in either. That is your choice.

I'm not saying these things in isolation. It is discussed in detail in books, religious texts that are held sacred by many around the world who believe including me.

So you do not believe. You do not see it that way. Why slam the faith of so many? Why not just roll your eyes, say "whatever," and walk on?

Live and let live. I'm not demanding anyone agree with me. I'm just wanting people to consider it, to talk about it, pro and con. If we disagree then we disagree. Manners should always prevail.

High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Full Silos of Iowa
May 2, 2010 - 09:25pm PT
Here it is from another perspective...

I pay attention to this thread to get a sense of how others are responding to your nonsense and Abrahamic Christian fundamentalism. This sense or "feel" happens to be important to me.

And my sense is, times ARE changing. My kindred spirits were burned at the stake 300-400 years ago. They're not anymore and Abrahamic religious institutions across continents and around the world are flailing. Thank goodness. Can't happen soon enough.

So it's not all about you or your crazy topics, Gilligan.
Diesel_Smoke

Big Wall climber
May 2, 2010 - 09:35pm PT
I digress; the Klimmer-like fundamentalist's views are truthfully the most reasonable and favorable of those who are aligned with religious dogma.

The effort of their adamant debating is honestly, in my opinion, evidence of genuine care for others. Their internal interest for others, in addition to their religious beliefs, reinforce ideas their efforts as beneficial and necessary for those not of belief. While their efforts may amuse and irritate, a greater degree of concern and intelligence exists in them than their indifferent religious counterpart.

The religious 'moderates' are the most loathsome, feeble minded, and self-interested of all religious (and non-religious) sects. While fundamentalists may justify their beliefs with remarkably poor evidence and bizarre conclusions, moderates cite nothing but self-interested rewards for their beliefs. These feeble-minded 'believers' need no understanding for any event; no cause/effect evidence needed for accepting their beliefs.

Individuals who merely foreclose their belief as a guarantee of future incentives and salvation demonstrate the lowest imaginable level of intellectual achievement. Any requirement of evidence for 'truth' is an obvious indication of higher function. Similarly, refusing the comforts and incentives of faith is not actually a satisfying solution. Obviously, declining 72 virgins isn't a casual decision. And, maybe, within the quiet confines of my mind, on my death bed, I'll accept... just to feebly 'see what happens.'

Thus, I sincerely applaud the efforts and concern of Klimmer, et al. The internal goodness as manifested in your actions, despite religious dogma, is likely real concern for others' salvation. Your ability to consider and imagine beyond the constraints of religion is welcoming.
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Full Silos of Iowa
May 2, 2010 - 09:42pm PT
I see what you're saying so I won't disagree.

Yet, then again, I'm also with the likes of Sam Harris: Both camps are a menace. Each in their own way.

Case in point: I'd rather a suit-case size nuclear bomb were in the hands of a moderate Christian or Moslem than a fundamentalist one.



EDIT 6:43. Well, then Jim, I guess were defining "bullying" these days differently then. So let's throw in "attacking" and "hating" too. Then again, not. That's b.s.
Jim Brennan

Trad climber
Vancouver Canada
May 2, 2010 - 09:42pm PT
Klimmer can defend himself.

That some of what he thinks isn`t what I think, has no consequence. What does ring true is his point about bullying. It`s possible to get a point across while respecting your opponent.

Yeah, I know I`m guilty of posting indignantly without caution but why bully someone who makes you imagine. It`s fun to consider aliens and space ships from another solar system. Like I said before, The things I know that can`t be changed, just oppress for the sake of money.
cintune

climber
the Moon and Antarctica
May 2, 2010 - 10:22pm PT


I like Klimmer's posts, actually, they beat the political threads anyway.
Fritz

Trad climber
Hagerman, ID
May 2, 2010 - 10:40pm PT
Klimmer: I do respect that you believe all angles of the question should be considered.

However:

Elizabeth Kubler-Ross' book, "On Death and Dying” identifies five stages of accepting death.

• Denial (this isn't happening to me!)

• Anger (why is this happening to me?)

• Bargaining (I promise I'll be a better person if...)

• Depression (I don't care anymore)

• Acceptance (I'm ready for whatever comes)



Perhaps you should accept:

those stages may apply to those who present ST threads with controversial material.







Sometime: you just have to let go.



Best wishes, Fritz
Jennie

Trad climber
Elk Creek, Idaho
May 2, 2010 - 10:46pm PT
“The religious 'moderates' are the most loathsome, feeble minded, and self-interested of all religious (and non-religious) sects. While fundamentalists may justify their beliefs with remarkably poor evidence and bizarre conclusions, moderates cite nothing but self-interested rewards for their beliefs. These feeble-minded 'believers' need no understanding for any event; no cause/effect evidence needed for accepting their beliefs.”



Moderate Christians ?

“So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spew thee out…”

Rev 3:16
Port

Trad climber
San Diego
May 3, 2010 - 11:09am PT
I don't think ignorance is the right word to describe Klimmer. He is quite aware. He just chooses fantasy and conjecture. I think he is harmless.
Klimmer

Mountain climber
San Diego
Topic Author's Reply - May 3, 2010 - 11:19am PT
Guys,

I have a moment now since students are still state testing.

Seems you all have a very short memmory.

I suppose you would say the same thing towards these great men of science and faith: Copernicus, Galileo, Kepler, Newton and many, many more.

Not that I'm in that class, only to point out doing science and having faith are compatible.

I've already stated I'm a Theistic Evolutionist. Do we know our history completely without flaw? Do we see crystal clearly regarding our past? Do we know all? Do we know all the connections within Evolution and exactly how it happened? Yes, we have have theories with evidence, but they are incomplete.

We have a hidden past that is being revealed slowly.

Hypotheses gentlemen are educated guesses. We can all speculate. And speculation leads to investigation and the scientific method . . .

Let me know when you know it all. Thanks.
Klimmer

Mountain climber
San Diego
Topic Author's Reply - May 3, 2010 - 12:40pm PT
So who among you is brave enough to go in on a FOIA request from NASA with me regarding the massive object on the farside of the Moon? I would request a specific region with 4 corners described by lat/long with the center nadir over the center of said object, and I would request the latest and highest resolution of all LRO images of said object from a multitude of perspectives for 3D viewing.

The center mass of the massive object is (according to Google Moon):

18 degrees 43 minutes South Lattitude

117 degrees 41 minutes East Longitude



Making NASA FOIA requests:
http://www.hq.nasa.gov/pao/FOIA/

The LRO Mission:
http://lunar.gsfc.nasa.gov/
The LRO Mission team:
http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/LRO/team/index.html
http://lunar.gsfc.nasa.gov/science.html
http://lunar.gsfc.nasa.gov/gallery.html
http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/LRO/multimedia/index.html
dirtbag

climber
May 3, 2010 - 12:46pm PT
Not me.


But if there aren't any documents,which will probably be the case then what? Will it become fodder for a new conspiracy?
Mike Bolte

Trad climber
Planet Earth
May 3, 2010 - 12:57pm PT
"brave enough"?
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
May 3, 2010 - 12:59pm PT
^^^^ two or more out that far on a limb could be scary!
Klimmer

Mountain climber
San Diego
Topic Author's Reply - May 3, 2010 - 01:48pm PT
You do know that I'm only requesting the latest up to date imagery from the Lunar Recon. Orbiter (LRO) that is now imaging the entire Moon surface at the highest resolution ever. It is so good we can now see the tracks on the Moon's surface from the Apollo missions.

I would not be asking for interpretation, just the images. Just the raw images. No purposeful manipulation, no pixellating, no masking, just the virgin raw images as they come from the LRO for said region.

This program has been paid for with our tax dollars. These images belong to all US citizens. They are the peoples' images. We should have complete access to them.
Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
Why'djya leave the ketchup on the table?
May 3, 2010 - 01:53pm PT
I don't understand why Klimmer attracts the insults some of you hurl at him in virtually every reply. He doesn't respond in kind. You all must feel pretty damned stupid to get trolled like that....

DMT
Chiloe

Trad climber
Lee, NH
May 3, 2010 - 02:03pm PT
From the olde days of Bill Zaumen on the wreck, DMT has spoken out against ganging
up on the odd kid. I truly respect that.
howlostami

Trad climber
Southern Tier, NY
May 3, 2010 - 02:15pm PT
The only reason the chinese have a space program is so they can plant an ark on the dark side of the moon :)
rectorsquid

climber
Lake Tahoe
May 3, 2010 - 04:38pm PT
Although a few scientists throughout history have had ideas that seemed crackpot, such as thinking that the earth is round, most crackpots have turned out to be crackpots.

It will suck of Klimmer turns out to be right but statistically, he's a crackpot by believing that there is a giant space ark on the dark side of the moon.

I'm not at all sure how thinking that he is a crackpot about this has anything to do with religion but I guess anyone who shows pictures like those on the cover of the Enquirer and then talks of God is going to be condemned for both.

Also, Galileo was not some unknown guy posting on the internet. When I hear that someone at NASA thinks this is more than a simply Photoshop trick then I might pay more attention. Until then, I'll stick with the traditional view that there is no space ark on the moon and that it's just some silly idea being supported by wackos.

I look forward to being wrong but that doesn't mean I'll just believe any outlandish idea like this. If I believe this, I'll have to believe in Santa Claus, vampires, and a balanced budget, too.

Dave

[edit to add] Attacking Klimmer and not just the idea presented is a bit weak. There are far crazier people teaching our kids. At least Klimmer doesn't seem to hide anything. I hope he doesn't teach this stuff to kids as truth or I'll start siding with the haters.

healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
May 3, 2010 - 04:49pm PT
It's a dollars and cents issue when an agency like NASA has to burn much needed dollars responding to thousands of quack FOIA requests...
Klimmer

Mountain climber
San Diego
Topic Author's Reply - May 3, 2010 - 05:13pm PT
Rokjox, thanks.

Come on guys. Do I know if it is a Space Ark of intelligent design?
No I do not.

Do I think that it could be, from the images and story floating around regarding Apollo 20? Yes it could be. There are elements of this story that seem to be true. Bits of real truth seem to be and could be leaking out.

No, I do not talk about this with students. There are many things I do not talk about with anyone. I have stated this many times before.

One of the neat things about the internet, is that you can float strange ideas and opinions without any significant flack. Well, ok, I used to think this. Flack just seems to be coming my way on ST though.

Gee, on this thread too much private info has been released. I have never done to anyone what has been done to me here on this thread. I would never do that kind of Bovine Dung to someone.

I'm asking questions and looking for real answers. I know NASA knows already. I would like to know also. I think many, many people all over the Earth would like to know.

They (NASA Apollo Missions) have taken many images of this object and has been shown in the historical image record. If it was just a ridge, if it was just an anomoly along the side of a crater, then I do not think they would give it any time and we wouldn't see so many official images of the massive object.

We are talking about a structure/object that is about 4500m by 850m or so in size and casts a shadow. Anything natural like a meteor slamming into the Moon at high impact speeds would create a massive crater, and it would vaporize. Check out Dr. Melosh's Impact Crater Calculator on-line and put in the size of this impactor to match the size of this object and you will see the crater would be massive.

A massive rock/asteroid this size does not come to rest on the Moon's surface gently.
Chiloe

Trad climber
Lee, NH
May 3, 2010 - 05:14pm PT
With evident embarassment, NASA caved in to public pressure for a serious response about that "face on Mars."

http://science.nasa.gov/science-news/science-at-nasa/2001/ast24may_1/

But of course a serious response from NASA had no effect on believers.

http://www.metaresearch.org/solar%20system/cydonia/proof_files/proof.asp
Mighty Hiker

climber
Vancouver, B.C.
May 3, 2010 - 05:16pm PT
But the Martians love us, and here's proof.
Credit: NASA
dirtbag

climber
May 3, 2010 - 05:21pm PT
Gee, on this thread too much private info has been released. I have never done to anyone what has been done to me here on this thread.

I agree, and I think a lot of people should be ashamed.
Port

Trad climber
San Diego
May 3, 2010 - 05:22pm PT
Here is a list of sites that debunk most of Klimmer's claims. It appears that a man name Thiery Speth has made up this whole thing.


http://sites.google.com/site/tasfastas/apollo20-pseudospaceship

http://blog.sublime.ca/2007/06/spaceship-debunked.html

http://apollohoax.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=theories&thread=1000&page=1

http://www.articlesbase.com/science-articles/the-apollo-20-alien-spaceship-hoax-307209.html

http://www.galaxiki.org/web/main/_blog/all/the-apollo-20-alien-spaceship-hoax.shtml

http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/User:Moby-Dick4000/Apollo_20_hoax

http://www.engineerpages.info/wp/article/the-apollo-20-alien-spaceship-hoax/

cintune

climber
the Moon and Antarctica
May 3, 2010 - 05:31pm PT
As good a place as any to drop this little research gem:
Brain shuts off in response to healer's prayer

27 April 2010 by Andy Coghlan

WHEN we fall under the spell of a charismatic figure, areas of the brain responsible for scepticism and vigilance become less active. That's the finding of a study which looked at people's response to prayers spoken by someone purportedly possessing divine healing powers.

To identify the brain processes underlying the influence of charismatic individuals, Uffe Schjødt of Aarhus University in Denmark and colleagues turned to Pentecostal Christians, who believe that some people have divinely inspired powers of healing, wisdom and prophecy.

Using functional magnetic resonance imaging (fMRI), Schjødt and his colleagues scanned the brains of 20 Pentecostalists and 20 non-believers while playing them recorded prayers. The volunteers were told that six of the prayers were read by a non-Christian, six by an ordinary Christian and six by a healer. In fact, all were read by ordinary Christians.

Only in the devout volunteers did the brain activity monitored by the researchers change in response to the prayers. Parts of the prefrontal and anterior cingulate cortices, which play key roles in vigilance and scepticism when judging the truth and importance of what people say, were deactivated when the subjects listened to a supposed healer. Activity diminished to a lesser extent when the speaker was supposedly a normal Christian (Social Cognitive and Affective Neuroscience, DOI: 10.1093/scan/nsq023).

Schjødt says that this explains why certain individuals can gain influence over others, and concludes that their ability to do so depends heavily on preconceived notions of their authority and trustworthiness.

It's not clear whether the results extend beyond religious leaders, but Schjødt speculates that brain regions may be deactivated in a similar way in response to doctors, parents and politicians.

http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg20627574.200-brain-shuts-off-in-response-to-healers-prayer.html

healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
May 3, 2010 - 05:32pm PT
I know NASA knows already.

The problem with your premise starts with thinking like this...
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Full Silos of Iowa
May 3, 2010 - 05:34pm PT
Healyje- Stop attacking him.
Klimmer

Mountain climber
San Diego
Topic Author's Reply - May 3, 2010 - 06:03pm PT
YES. NASA KNOWS.

The thing is, UFO disclosure has already really taken place, but no one really seems to listen. Why is that?

NASA does know, and here is why . . .

(Now I did post this before but I doubt you watched and learned. Maybe you guys can now watch and see just how much NASA knows. They know alright. These people talk because they were in the inside, now retired, so they can. Many on the inside can not talk or they run the risk of losing their jobs)

Clinton White House Chief John Podesta on UFO disclosure
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R2Sz-MgoFos

Steven Spielberg on UFO's and Jimmy Carter 1977
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P9TY6yg4ejM&feature=related

Ex President Jimmy Carter UFO
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XrJeBCi47ME&feature=related

Ray-Gun's ALIEN speech to UN
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ag44dRO8LEA&feature=related

Ufo Disclosure Edgar Mitchell CNN Obama Administration April 21 2009
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G4x-EGrMW_I&feature=related

Ex Astronaut Says Feds 'Know' UFOs Exist 21.4.2009
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WlOZtfy0MwY&feature=related

Astronaut Gordon Cooper Talks About UFOs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dvPR8T1o3Dc&feature=related

NASA Gordon Cooper UFOs are visiting the Earth
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tkBhME9RCjc&feature=related

Astronaut Buzz Aldrin Recounts Apollo 11 UFO Encounter
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XlkV1ybBnHI&feature=related

Buzz Aldrin Reveals Existence of Monolith on Mars Moon
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bDIXvpjnRws&feature=related

U.F.O DISCLOSURE PROJECT -FULL VERSION
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7vyVe-6YdUk&feature=related

Clinton's (UFO) Speech in Hong Kong 14 Sep 2005
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c3F3CXspsuo&feature=related

The Vatican's Take on Aliens?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8gB7QhHcYIE&NR=1&feature=fvwp

YouTube - Michio Kaku On Aliens On Physics ...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kw8dcb8iKSM&feature=related


UFO Contact - Former Canadian Defence Minister
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RGyFWyNuF3s&feature=related




If an honest person would watch all the videos above, you would come to know Aliens/UFOs are a real phenonmenon, you do not have to be bat-poop crazy or be a fruit-loop to known it is real and this phenomenon has been occurring throughout mankind's recorded history.
Mighty Hiker

climber
Vancouver, B.C.
May 3, 2010 - 06:09pm PT
UFO Contact - Former Canadian Defence Minister
Paul Hellyer was our Minister of Defence from 1963 - 68. He's now 87, and hasn't been active in current affairs in any substantive or consistent way since the 1970s. Overall not entirely credible. A video of him from 2005 saying that he believes in UFOs is pretty thin gruel.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Hellyer
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
May 3, 2010 - 06:18pm PT
Basic math debunks the whole shebang.
Klimmer

Mountain climber
San Diego
Topic Author's Reply - May 3, 2010 - 06:21pm PT
MH,

Do you not know that the Canadian gov has an official site that allows people to look at your governments archives of UFO Canadian sightings and associated phenomenon?

I would google the site but I'm tired. It has been a long day. More work to do at home. It exists.


Here are some:

http://www.collectionscanada.gc.ca/databases/ufo/index-e.html

http://www.ufoevidence.org/topics/canada.htm



Boy, you Canooks must be into some strange kinda wacky weed to believe all this stuff. Sarcasm. It's really ok. You just want to know the truth.
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
May 3, 2010 - 06:25pm PT
Nothing in the Carter, Reagan, or Clinton youtube videos you posted even vaguely suggests any of the three believe/d in UFO's.
Mighty Hiker

climber
Vancouver, B.C.
May 3, 2010 - 06:25pm PT
Although Reagan seemed the sort of person capable of believing in UFOs...
Klimmer

Mountain climber
San Diego
Topic Author's Reply - May 3, 2010 - 06:37pm PT
Nothing in the Carter, Reagan, or Clinton youtube videos you posted even vaguely suggests any of the three believe/d in UFO's


If you post all the interviews with Carter regarding his sighting he does admit to seeing a UFO, in some he admits he isn't sure what it is, in some he says it might be, and in others he says no, he doesn't believe stuff like that is possible. But in all he is consistant with seeing a UFO. He has.

Reagan eludes to the idea that Aliens are among us already.

Clinton talks about and eludes to the idea that we have a government within a government. And yes he did try to find out about Rosewell and Area 51. "They" shut him down. "They" never agreed or abidded by his need to know, because as the President of the United States, he wasn't on a need to know basis. We do indeed have a government within a government. One is permanent throughout all administrations, and one is not. One is voted in every 4 years. The other is never voted in, and is always permanently there, whether we want it or not.
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
May 3, 2010 - 06:52pm PT
No, Carter says he saw something he can't explain, he does not believe it was a craft piloted by aliens.

No, Reagan was using a hypothetical as an example of the kind of event that could / would unite humanity. He 'eludes' nothing whatsoever.

No, Clinton 'eluded' to the fact there might be a crank career employee sitting on material he hasn't seen. It's entirely unlikely and even if such a crank did have material, it would be the same lame junk everyone else with this proposition has.
scuffy b

climber
Where only the cracks are dry
May 3, 2010 - 06:56pm PT
To answer Mighty Hiker's earlier questions (I won't quote them, you'll
have to guess), I have in fact met Klimmer: not at the WoodsonFest but at
the Woodson Shindig (2007).
He is personable, intelligent and lively, and he can climb. I will offer
one caveat.
He spent what might be considered an inordinate amount of time in quasi
secret discussions with "Phantom X", the main topic being a highly
esoteric and restricted document with a title like The Revenge of the
Itus.
The author is supposedly one "Dennis Adams" (I'm So Sure).

It is telling, perhaps, that Phantom X has never subsequently produced
this document despite repeated requests.

As for Weld_it, I have yet to meet that rising star of trad radness. I
understand that he has unlimited Man Potential in addition to his generous
concern for the safety of the climbing community.
Mighty Hiker

climber
Vancouver, B.C.
May 3, 2010 - 07:01pm PT
I've met Weld-It, or at least someone claiming to be Weld-It. He/she was not a space alien.
Jongy

Gym climber
Ciudad Juárez, Ch Mexico
May 3, 2010 - 07:07pm PT
what is with all of the posts that are not climbing related? Shouldn't there be another section for information that isn't related to climbing? I was hoping to find some information on this great form about fabricating my own climbing holds. But it seems in between a few not so great trip reports there is nothing but political discussion. What is wrong with you people? Go somewhere else?
donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
May 3, 2010 - 07:10pm PT
Jongy you couldn't be more right. Political/religious threads get far more posts than climbing ones. Hell, the odd sex thread even gets buried by the other crap. Must have something to do with all the people from LA.
Weld_it

Trad climber
Chatsworth
May 3, 2010 - 07:15pm PT
Hey! I want to learn about making climbing holds too. All this alien stuff is a bummer and they should just go watch E.T. or something and leave the radness of this climbing forum to the rad climbers.
Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
Why'djya leave the ketchup on the table?
May 3, 2010 - 07:19pm PT
HELLYeah~ You got Donni on the hook here now BROUGH!!!1111

Ask him for his favorite hold fabrication recipe, lol!

DMT

Jongy

Gym climber
Ciudad Juárez, Ch Mexico
May 3, 2010 - 07:21pm PT
Who is Donni? Donni if you are reading this can you tell me about your favorite climbing hold recipe?
donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
May 3, 2010 - 07:25pm PT
Son, I don't do plastic but even a discussion about (ugh!) indoor "climbing" is better that the pseudo science/religious conspiracy crap we've been getting.
donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
May 3, 2010 - 07:33pm PT
You have a point Rokjox, waiting at the airport for a friend to arrive from England, I must be bored to the point of stupidity.
Weld_it

Trad climber
Chatsworth
May 3, 2010 - 07:37pm PT
Wake up Rokjox! I have been digging this thread from the begining but i also would like to know about holds. This is a free country and I can read and post wheere I want. You might need to relax a bit and maybe pull on your wall if you have one. It is fun! Slow down the hate trane bra!
Jongy

Gym climber
Ciudad Juárez, Ch Mexico
May 3, 2010 - 07:41pm PT
donini if you would like you can buy some of my holds and build a wall for yourself.
Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
Why'djya leave the ketchup on the table?
May 3, 2010 - 07:42pm PT
How do you make them? What's your recipe?

DMT
Jongy

Gym climber
Ciudad Juárez, Ch Mexico
May 3, 2010 - 07:43pm PT
Yeah, how do you make them? I need to know.
Weld_it

Trad climber
Chatsworth
May 3, 2010 - 07:45pm PT
You can PM me with how you do it so "Flash Gordon" up thread will mellow out. How do you do it?
Weld_it

Trad climber
Chatsworth
May 3, 2010 - 07:50pm PT
huh? I'm no n00b rokjox and understand respect and I asked politly for info on making some rad holds. Waht is wrong with that?
Weld_it

Trad climber
Chatsworth
May 3, 2010 - 07:59pm PT
rokjox, but all the hot hold makers are in this thread. have you ever made any holds and if so, how did you do it? PM me later if you are watching alice in wonderland or something
WBraun

climber
May 3, 2010 - 08:05pm PT
I will make hold.

Choke hold.

Goes around your weld_it neck till you turn blue ....
Mighty Hiker

climber
Vancouver, B.C.
May 3, 2010 - 08:09pm PT
So much for Werner the pacifist...

Anyway, you may not be strong or fast enough. I hear Weld_It's a tough customer.
WBraun

climber
May 3, 2010 - 08:10pm PT
Fuk you I was never ever a pacifist.

I'm a brutal killer of stupid trolls .....
Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
Why'djya leave the ketchup on the table?
May 3, 2010 - 08:10pm PT
I know a guy who sealed a cracked engine block with it.

DMT
Weld_it

Trad climber
Chatsworth
May 3, 2010 - 08:24pm PT
dude--- that was a TV show, not a documenitary!!! LOL
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
May 3, 2010 - 08:38pm PT
I don't know what all the fuss is about as they are already amongst us...
You talkin' to me?
You talkin' to me?
Credit: Reilly
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
May 3, 2010 - 08:41pm PT
Yeah, it's a thread dedicated to the exploration of ideas - oh-how-I-wish ideas that are then embellished with elobarately fabriacted 'facts', photos, ridiculous analyses, quotes out of context (hell, contexts out of context), and all sorts of other crock. It would be 'innocent' enough except in the age of the Internet this endless manufacturing of conspiracies does have a corrosive effect on society over time. Bad enough we can't seem to graduate more than half our highschool students and at the same time have so many people truck in this drivel. That someone attempts to do both does raise a concern in some folks; but that's cool so long as he keeps this stuff to himself at work.
Jongy

Gym climber
Ciudad Juárez, Ch Mexico
May 3, 2010 - 09:02pm PT
But that's the thing. I want to make holds out of natural material. Not plastic.
Weld_it

Trad climber
Chatsworth
May 3, 2010 - 09:05pm PT
Natural would be cool! Waht you dudes got down there to use for holds?
Klimmer

Mountain climber
San Diego
Topic Author's Reply - May 3, 2010 - 09:07pm PT
Climbing holds! Climbing holds??? What is this thread coming tooooo!!??

Better than plastic climbing holds are real rock climbing holds. Go to your favorite climbing crag and permanently borrow choice pieces of talis and flakes fallen on the ground of rock, whether they are granite, limestone, sandstone, basalt, tuff, whatever. Drill a 3/8" straight hole for the bolt plus washer, and cut a gasket for the back of your real rock manufactured hold out of old bicycle inner-tube and place between the rock and the artificial wall, and Voila! you have yourself a genuine great climbing hold that feels and climbs like real rock. Duh!!! It is. And the best part, every hold is unique. No 2 are alike.

I have made many such holds. They're great.


The most expensive of these types of holds are from the Moon. Moon rock climbing holds go for about $50,000/g or more. I say we get up there and bring back more than 380kg worth that Apollo brought back. Surely, the more we can bring back the cheaper the hold, don't you think?

Back to the Moon!
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
May 3, 2010 - 09:10pm PT
Rokjox - speed of light, distance to nearest planet with intelligent life, and the energy required to travel anywhere near the SOL - it's an exercise in time travel consuming near infinite energy. Good luck with the odds of that ever happening once, let alone happening all the time with Earth somehow always the destination of choice. We must be high up on galactic travel agents' "must do" list.

And look at Klimmer's Apollo 20 shoulder patch, what does that imply? Aside from the fact neither craft had any such capability, where would they take it? Ridiculous.
Weld_it

Trad climber
Chatsworth
May 3, 2010 - 09:12pm PT
klimmer--- holds on the ground in joshua tree are illegal to take and the ones i drilled from Stoney Point all broke. I need a new drill or some super plastic stuff to mold my own and make a new wall. The rangers are the only ones with jtree holds on there walls LOL!
cintune

climber
the Moon and Antarctica
May 3, 2010 - 09:16pm PT
Some Adirondack anorthosite could sub for moon rock holds, only a few billion years younger than the real thing, but otherwise an almost perfect match.
Pate

Trad climber
May 3, 2010 - 09:25pm PT
Looks like someone took over the helm of the moron ship.......


.....anyhow- Klimmer, you need to be directly addressed.

Yep. Its really sad.

The Bully Club of ST, is alive and well. The reason many have left ST.

None of you ever really talk substance, only ad hominem attacks constantly.


All we get are Cyber Bullies. You're infamous on ST. It gets really old.

point by point:

1) That may be your opinion, but you're being a melodramatic woosy.

2) a-If you are referring to me you are wrong. I engage very few people directly in an aggressive way. RokJox and LEB are the primary ones. They get what they ask for, there is no bullying. In fact they are the only ones I engage besides you here in this thread. In this day and age, with the intense divisiveness being created by the Christian Right, I relish the opportunity to have at ignorant misinformed idiots like you.

b- No one has left SuperTopo, certainly not because of me or any one else's behavior. No one. Maybe LEB is taking a hiatus, but that's a good thing, and she'll certainly rise from the dead, she always does. You may believe this because you hear RJ screaming it from the mountaintop, but it's not true. It's just hot air like Glen Beck spray, just because you repeat it over and over again doesn't make it true. Everyone is still here. They just don't get involved in your crap. You would see this if you participated in any of the TR's, gear reviews or climbing related threads. I do, and I've NEVER seen your name there. Do you even climb?

3) It is you who lack substance. Misinformed statements that rely on half truths are not a solid basis for argument- nor are hastily assembled lists of links to conspiracy theory web sites. You have not made one single post of any substance on either this or the other thread. It's all been whining. Give us some facts or philosophy man, not just paranoia by-product.


4) a-All you get are cyberbullies? Hardly, look at the participants in this retarded thread.

b- I'm infamous? Hardly, and judging from the amount of PM's in my inbox, and the people they are from, I'm sure I offend very very few people. You would be surprised how many people PM me Klimmer, and the support they show, they understand humor.

5) IT GETS REALLY OLD- It's your belief system and arguments that are old Klimmer.


Carry on with your campaign of ignorance and stupidity. Reading your posts makes me understand what it must be like listening to you at a faculty meeting, complete with rolled eyes, smirks and guffaws.
Pate

Trad climber
May 3, 2010 - 09:39pm PT
Many of these same individuals would have no problem letting homosexuals, bisexuals, abstainsts, hedonists, Stalinists, communists, socialists, atheists, animists, dyads, druids, and drunks teach children in public or private schools; but KLIMMER, because he professes a belief in a Christian GOD of whatever stripe, you think its permissible to castigate him and try and destroy his credibility?
This is why you're a dick RokJox. Homosexuals teaching kids? Check. Bisexuals teaching kids? Check. Hedonists teaching kids? You're a moron. Stalinists? You're outdated, but yes, check. Communists? Check, gladly. Socialists? Again, check, gladly. Atheists? Check. The last three make you an as#@&%e for including in the same list.

Who is the REAL HATE-MONGER RJ??????? THAT WOULD BE YOU.
Port

Trad climber
San Diego
May 3, 2010 - 09:40pm PT
Pate's right. Im done with this. I cant argue with someone who bases their beliefs on Youtube videos. I think you pose interesting questions Klimmer, but thats all they are. Shadow governments, 911 conspiracies, religions prophecy..... anything else you want to share? They are all part of the same bullsh*t.
goatboy smellz

climber
Nederland
May 3, 2010 - 09:40pm PT

Chiloe

Trad climber
Lee, NH
May 3, 2010 - 09:42pm PT
Nobody said it had any sort of passengers.

Umm, yeah, the original hoax behind this thread includes a video of a "female alien mummy."
Cosmiccragsman

Trad climber
AKA Dwain, from Apple Valley, California
May 3, 2010 - 10:04pm PT
I believe there were Nephalim that lived on this world at one time,
And I think there is a possibility that there are people alive today
whose ancesters may have been Nephalim.

I also think a lot of the old Mythology in the world may be related to the Nephalim.

As for Aliens, I have a hard time believing in them.
Pate

Trad climber
May 3, 2010 - 10:09pm PT
Pate, I made that list because it WAS ridiculous.

All right, I apologize. What's wrong with druids though? Having a druid friend can get you out of an occasional jam.
Cosmiccragsman

Trad climber
AKA Dwain, from Apple Valley, California
May 3, 2010 - 10:29pm PT
"You got funny eyes there fella."





All the better to SEE you with,
my PRETTY.


Was Goliath part Nephilim? Gen: 6.4

Flashy P

climber
Sparks, NV
May 3, 2010 - 10:43pm PT
I'm excited that the topic of making holds out of plastic came up finally.

I'd like to make some plastic holds out of natural material also. What is the most natural plastic to use?
Cosmiccragsman

Trad climber
AKA Dwain, from Apple Valley, California
May 3, 2010 - 10:45pm PT
I have really bad astigmatism.
and I can't go the regular lasik route.
So, I make do with glasses

Those glasses on my avatar are not my real glasses.
I just photoshopped this from this guy.
photo not found
Missing photo ID#156001
Flashy P

climber
Sparks, NV
May 3, 2010 - 10:48pm PT
Jongy was asking donini about making plastic holds, it seemed like he knew what he was talking about.

Is donini a comp climber?
stich

Trad climber
Colorado Springs, Colorado
May 3, 2010 - 11:32pm PT
This is worse than the image of Kermit the Frog on Mars near Alba Patera or the stupid face.
Chiloe

Trad climber
Lee, NH
May 3, 2010 - 11:43pm PT
I keep learning new stuff from this thread. Personally, I'm glad Klimmer started it.
And now thanks to Stich, I know that Kermit lives on Mars.

Tami

Social climber
Canada
May 3, 2010 - 11:46pm PT
Flashy - Donini is most certainly a comp climber. He'd like to comp his climbing .........I bet.




Carry on carrying on.
Klimmer

Mountain climber
San Diego
Topic Author's Reply - May 3, 2010 - 11:54pm PT
Rokjox,


I've had these on my amazon.com wish list for sometime now. Haven't purchased them but would like too:

I Could Tell You But Then You Would Have to be Destroyed by Me: Emblems from the Pentagon's Black World [Hardcover]
Trevor Paglen
http://www.amazon.com/Could-Tell-Then-Would-Destroyed/dp/1933633328/ref=wl_it_dp_o?ie=UTF8&coliid=I1ONZDX3MP34OH&colid=2GL3DFQ4AXH2G



Review
"A fascinating set of shoulder patches designed for the Pentagon's Black Ops programs."
—Stephen Colbert, The Colbert Report

“A glimpse of [the Pentagon’s] dark world through a revealing lens—patches—the kind worn on military uniforms.... The book offers not only clues into the nature of the secret programs, but also a glimpse of zealous male bonding among the presumed elite of the military-industrial complex. The patches often feel like fraternity pranks gone ballistic.”
—William Broad, The New York Times

“Gives readers a peek into the shadows ... Department of Defense spokesman Bob Mehal told Newsweek that it ‘would not be prudent to comment on what patches did or did not represent classified units.’ That’s OK. Some mysteries are more fun when they stay unsolved.”
—Karen Pinchin, Newsweek

"An art book that presents peculiar shoulder patches created for the weird and top secret programs funded by the Pentagon's black budget... an achievement."
—Timothy Buckwalter, The San Francisco Chonicle

"I was fascinated... [Paglen] has assembled about 40 colorful patch insignia from secret, military 'black' programs that are hardly ever discussed in public. He has plenty of regalia from the real denizens of Area 51."
—Alex Beam, The Boston Globe

"An impressive collection."
—Justin Rood, ABC News

"The iconography of the United States military. Not the mainstream military, with its bars and ribbons and medals, but the secret or 'black projects' world, which may or may not involve contacting aliens, building undetectable spy aircraft, and experimenting with explosives that could make atomic bombs look like firecrackers. Here, mysterious characters and cryptic symbols hint at intrigue much deeper than rank, company, and unit."
—UTNE Reader

"Of course, issuing patches for a covert operation sounds like a joke...but truth be told, these days everything is branded. Military symbols are frequently replete with heraldic imagery—some rooted in history, others based on contemporary popular arts that feature comic characters—but these enigmatic dark-op images, in some cases probably designed by the participants themselves, are more personal, and also more disturbing, than most."
—Steven Heller, The New York Times Book Review



Blank Spots on the Map: The Dark Geography of the Pentagon's Secret World [Bargain Price] [Hardcover]
Trevor Paglen
http://www.amazon.com/Blank-Spots-Map-Geography-Pentagons/dp/B002ACPM5E/ref=pd_bxgy_b_img_b


Top Secret Tourism: Your Travel Guide to Germ Warfare Laboratories, Clandestine Aircraft Bases and Other Places in the United States You're Not Supposed to Know About [Paperback]
Harry Helms
http://www.amazon.com/Top-Secret-Tourism-Laboratories-Clandestine/dp/1932595236/ref=pd_bxgy_b_img_b



There are many mission patches out there are "really way out there" that speak volumes about what they want to say but can't. Even the clandestine world likes to brag. Bragging is enherently human.
Phantom X

Trad climber
Honeycomb Hideout
May 4, 2010 - 12:28am PT
That's a good sized moonark! Is it secret?
Klimmer

Mountain climber
San Diego
Topic Author's Reply - May 4, 2010 - 12:40am PT
Cosmiccragman asked . . .


Was Goliath part Nephilim? Gen: 6.4


Yes, many well learned Biblical scholars say so. His people were Nephalim.


I would like to eventually put up a list of links that goes into a great deal of incredibly interesting facts and evidence concerning The Hidden History of Mankind. There is much that the official world of Archeology, Anthropology, and Paleontology ignores that tell another possible story of our ancestry. Many probably think I'm coming up with this stuff in isolation on my own. Nope. There are many wonderful scholars and resources that go into this in detail.

Even the thought of the Nephalim escaping the Biblical Flood Off-World via a massive spacecraft Ark is not my original thought. Others have thought it through and came up with that scenerio. I think it is plausible too, if one accepts the Bible as truth and the Book of Enoch as the truth and a missing Book of the Bible, and also note - it was also found in the Caves with the Dead Sea Scrolls.

If one accepts the Bible as truth. If one accepts that Fallen Angels mated with mankind and had off-spring called Nephalim. If one accepts that some Nephalim somehow escaped the flood and survived afterwards. Then they would have had to go off-World to do so, since the Bible says the entire world was covered, yet some Nephalim were after the flood. Then the situation is plausible.

Yes, I'm aware that this scenerio is bat-poop nuts to many, but the only new piece that is added that is not found in any religious and sacred books is the escaping off-world in a massive Spacecraft (Space-Ark), and perhaps it crashed onto the farside of the Moon.


Hey, all I want is for NASA to provide the hi-res images without any hanky panky of the entire region in question, from the LRO images, and enough imagery of said region to view the object in hi-res 3D. Let me see the all the actual real images from LRO, and I will be a happy camper. If it is natural and nothing is there, so be it. If something massive is there and it does indeed have intelligently designed features and the look, then you have to ask Who? When? And Why? The Nephalim escaping Earth is a working Hypothesis for Christians to consider.


monolith

climber
Berkeley, CA
May 4, 2010 - 01:17am PT
Cool, we're back to angels f*#king humans.

Why is that the angels always chose to be guys, Klimmer?

Or were there any that chose to be women?

Did they just not want to hang around pregnant for nine months?

This is what caused the old testament God to be angry and violent because the supernatural offspring were like throwing lightning bolts around and sh#t, right?

Was he also pissed off at the angels? Or was it like 'oh well, angels will be angels'?
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
May 4, 2010 - 01:18am PT
Has nobody brought up the possibility that this 'ark' is some kind of digital artifact or just plain weird low angle lighting? Seems to me too that it might have been shot with film and then digitized thereby raising the chances of artifacts even higher.

Also, it seems highly unlikely to me that a culture sophisticated enough to travel how many light years would then 'blow the landing'.
skywalker

climber
May 4, 2010 - 01:25am PT
really? Let me rephrase that (please pause a second when you say it and assert yourself), REALLY??????

S......
Weld_it

Trad climber
Chatsworth
May 4, 2010 - 01:29am PT
That "ark" looks a lot like a hold on my climbing wall that is sorta sloped and is a rad hang. Where did that Mexican dude go that was going to make the climbing holds go? I still have some qwetions about the mix and just what to use to make myown.
LithiumMetalman

Trad climber
cesspool central
May 4, 2010 - 01:30am PT
It's always good to keep the "skepticals" on, but not a closed mind.
Flashy P

climber
Sparks, NV
May 4, 2010 - 01:54am PT
I PM'd Jonga and he gave me his recipe for creating Mexican all natural climbing holds. By pouring a mixture of 1/4 Elmer's glue and 3/4 scented kitty litter into jello molds you can create some dab shapes.

To give them more stick you can apply heat prior to climbing.
Weld_it

Trad climber
Chatsworth
May 4, 2010 - 01:57am PT
that is so cool aobut the jello molds and hold mix. did he say white glue or the yellow stuff or who cares? how much heat and for how long?
Flashy P

climber
Sparks, NV
May 4, 2010 - 01:59am PT
He said that he uses the white Elmer's glue because he likes to sometimes eat a little bit when he's making them and says it tastes ok.
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
May 4, 2010 - 02:07am PT
I have no doubt there were, are, and will be other civilizations in the universe - it's pretty clear from the fact we exist that it's imminently possible for life to flourish throughout the universe. I would guess off-hand that there are likely a multitude of civilizations capable of reaching orbit and beyond as a result.

That's not the issue - time travel is the issue - as is the energy budget required to construct any such an object in orbit, or to provide for interstellar propulsion. And what would be the point of such an object? You keep going on about this possibility and that possibility without so much a single plausible conjecture as to how such a thing could be even remotely possible or why.
Weld_it

Trad climber
Chatsworth
May 4, 2010 - 02:10am PT
anything cool on mars?
Klimmer

Mountain climber
San Diego
Topic Author's Reply - May 4, 2010 - 02:27am PT
YES.

Lots. I'm tired. I'm going to bed. Will post up stuff on Mars later . . .

How about that giant golfball GOD hit into the giant sand-trap of Mars though?







Aw geees, it is gonna take another FOIA request with the MRO - HiRISE imagery from NASA. Why can't we just see it all without begging NASA for it?
Weld_it

Trad climber
Chatsworth
May 4, 2010 - 02:29am PT
how do you know that is on mars and not in some dudes backyard?
Ed Hartouni

Trad climber
Livermore, CA
May 4, 2010 - 02:39am PT
Klimmer, NASA's most likely released everything they have... but if you want to waste your time, go ahead and file a FOIA... http://www.hq.nasa.gov/pao/FOIA/

or you can ask them to shoot a picture of your favorite area:
http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/MRO/news/mro20100331.html

you can also stare at your ceiling and get a lot of really great patterns there too, or maybe the clouds (ever suspect that the way you "see" might be suggesting patterns that aren't what you perceive?).

I can send you a bumper sticker for your car... I need to get another one for 510 OW as the current one is pretty weathered, from the bumper sticker guy on Telegraph Ave:

"DON'T BELIEVE EVERYTHING YOU THINK"

my guess is that you're way on the other side of that advice.
Weld_it

Trad climber
Chatsworth
May 4, 2010 - 03:02am PT
are you drinkning? I asked about mars and you got all hippy on us by saying you are getting high on saliva LOL
Until that mexican dude shows up I'll wait for the mars stuff. that ark thing is played out bra.
Port

Trad climber
San Diego
May 4, 2010 - 03:06am PT
Look at Weld-it, port and flashy. they can't even let monkeys on a worthless free social network have a thread to them selves, and it's FREEE for them to take their bullshit to their OWN THREAD. All they have to do is show a LITTLE self restraint, and we could ALL have our own threads. But NO. They are im-mature and have to throw their sh#t into OUR cage, because they can't amuse themselves without f*#king up somebody's else's wet dream.

How about taking your bullshit to your own website where you can have your wet dream in peace? Klimmer posts this stuff here because he knows he will get us riled up.

They are a perfect example of immature racial profiles

Dude.......what are you talking about?
Ed Hartouni

Trad climber
Livermore, CA
May 4, 2010 - 03:20am PT
RJ
NASA's job, funded by a third of a billion Americans, is to answer the questions we ask. Who has a better right to ask the questions than the people who are funding the project?

I don't think so... NASA's "job" isn't to respond to every nutjob in this country or any other country (although they do respond a lot, amazingly).

What does NASA do? (http://www.nasa.gov/about/highlights/what_does_nasa_do.html);

NASA's mission is to pioneer the future in space exploration, scientific discovery and aeronautics research.

it doesn't say anything about pandering to the lunatic fringe, though they're happy to do it if they think it helps them politically...
MeatBomb

Gym climber
Boise, I dee Hoe
May 4, 2010 - 03:20am PT
Are you meat sticks still at this? What a circle jerk of losers!

edit to clarify: not you Ed. Them other losers with their head in the clouds and asses in the air waiting for the alien probe from South Park.
Ed Hartouni

Trad climber
Livermore, CA
May 4, 2010 - 03:32am PT
Those scientists are actually doing science...

...and they spent a bit of time putting the missions together, designing the instruments, writing the codes to process the images, and to analyze them. They'd like to actually get to do some science after the 10+ years it takes to put a mission together before they are consumed with a bunch of wacky requests to look for "giant golf balls embedded in a martian sand trap."

healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
May 4, 2010 - 03:37am PT
But you never attempt to even suggest answers to any of what I'm talking about. The problem with these sorts of discussions is that the participants never seem to be able to concurrently grasp and hold onto all three of the critical factors involved - the requisite distance, energy, and time scales. That seems once again to be the case here. In the case of this proposition you can't even seem to figure out how one might get it into orbit for a journey.

So let's play 'what if' with a like-sized cylinder of Titanium or something with similar structural qualities and mass:

Length: 5,000 Meters
Outer Diameter: 700 Meters
Inner Diameter: 690 Meters

What's that work out to in the way of volume of material and mass to source, refine, manufacture, and get to orbit:

Enclosed volume: 54,585,172.356 m3

Mass:

245,633,275,603 kg
541,528,676,073 lbs
270,764,338 tons

Given Earth's annual production of titanium-relatied ores / dioxides is about 5 million tons and that takes a shitload of energy to mine and process, let alone fabricate and send to orbit, it would seem to be quite a proposition even for an energy rich civilization. Even magically producing enough titanium from a moon would be a fantastical stretch of the imagination.
MeatBomb

Gym climber
Boise, I dee Hoe
May 4, 2010 - 03:38am PT
Rokjox, honest question: are you on any drugs now, prescribed or otherwise, and does your family know what you do here on the forum for hours a day?
MisterE

Social climber
Across Town From Easy Street
May 4, 2010 - 03:40am PT
People just don't understand me - why, oh why?

Maybe if I try harder, they will see what is so glaringly obvious.
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
May 4, 2010 - 05:09am PT
Well, I don't care how advanced or how long they live - amassing that much material from any source to produce an interstellar capable craft for any purpose would require more than hollowing out passing junk. And talking energy:

Accelerating one ton to one-tenth of the speed of light requires at least 450 PJ or 4.5 × 1017 J or 125 billion kWh, not accounting for losses

That would make powering our little visitor rack up about:

33,845,542,250,000,000,000 kWh

And 1/10th SOL would really only really be for commuting around the immediate galactic neigborhood.
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
May 4, 2010 - 05:48am PT
And none of that takes into account the intelligence, energy, or systems necessary to brake and do a soft landing on the moon. Again all implausible.
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
May 4, 2010 - 07:40am PT
Yes I have and again I don't find any of it remotely plausible as an explanation for Klimmer's interstellar Titanic.
Pate

Trad climber
May 4, 2010 - 09:06am PT
This thread has become the definition of stupidity.
stich

Trad climber
Colorado Springs, Colorado
May 4, 2010 - 09:24am PT
No way!

War is stupid!

This is...



fantasy!!!!
donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
May 4, 2010 - 09:27am PT
Ah Stich another F word....fantasy. Along with "faith" they lead to actions that Pate rightly describes as stupidity.
Klimmer

Mountain climber
San Diego
Topic Author's Reply - May 4, 2010 - 09:51am PT
Oh-kay, let's get back on track . . .


Yea, I may be seeing patterns that aren't really there, but then so are a million other people . . .

Massive Moon Object that amazingly looks like a massive ship and casts a shadow . . .

http://www.lpi.usra.edu/resources/apollo/frame/?AS15-P-9625

http://www.lpi.usra.edu/resources/apollo/frame/?AS15-P-9630




And there are many official images of said object in the NASA archives, yet all are amazingly at low res. Why? And why the heck do they keep taking images of said object and fly right over it and take even more? Yep, it is just an uninteresting ridge next to an impact crater. C'mon. Something is there that is massive.

I just want the same region at hi-res using the new LRO images. Is that so much to ask? I'm not asking NASA to interpret them. Just release the dang images.



Regarding the image of the massive "3D golf ball" on Mars . . . Someone said how do we know it wasn't taken in someone's backyard?

http://ida.wr.usgs.gov/html/m15012/m1501228.html





Once again, I'm not asking for NASA to interpret, I just want the MRO HiRISE images released publically of said region on Mars and let us have a detailed look-see. Again, is that so much to ask?

I want to be able to dial in and look at the detail, just as we now can do so for the Apollo Mission sites and see the Astronaut foot paths in the Lunar regolith. But I want to be able to do so for these 2 very interesting regions. One on the Moon, and one on Mars.

And make these images public so everyone can have a detailed look-see, not just a few people. Why not do so with the entire archive of the newest images? Make it a searchable database by lat./long. We paid for it. These images belong to the people.


WBraun

climber
May 4, 2010 - 09:53am PT
Ah yes, stupidity the big bad climber says ...

Another F word, ... faith.

Just see the climber have faith that he'll make it to the top of the big mountain.

Then when he reaches the top after all that suffering only to come back down and start all over again because he never found the real answer.

Stupidity ...... it swings in every direction.

Jongy

Gym climber
Ciudad Juárez, Ch Mexico
May 4, 2010 - 10:57am PT
I am over here weld_it. what's your question? I have some myself. Where did that donini person run off to? it seems like he was going to help me.

I'm not mexican though.
Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
Why'djya leave the ketchup on the table?
May 4, 2010 - 11:10am PT
If someone told the Donner Party, at their departure from St Louis, that someday (soon) they could walk into a hollow metal tube, close the door and fly through the air, to California, in a little over 3 hours time, eating lousy, expensive food (but its not PEOPLE).

They would have and could have come up with all sorts of 'that's impossible' scenarios.

And they would have been right. But a hundred seventy some odd years later.... things have changed.

Just as our current notions of the cosmos will change. WILL change.

Its easy to use covered wagon technology to dismiss commercial transcontinental flight.

DMT
Mike Bolte

Trad climber
Planet Earth
May 4, 2010 - 11:14am PT
"I would think in terms of conversion of mass into energy at 90% plus efficiency."

hmm, hydrogen fusion to helium (this powers the Sun) is the most efficient conversion of mass into energy we know about. What do you think that efficiency is? (answer 0.7%)

"A year of 1-G acceleration gets you close to the speed of light,"

OK, but don't forget F=ma. And when you are calculating the force to generate your 1-G acceleration don't forget special relativity! mass(relativistic)=mass/sqrt(1-v^2/c^2)

This last equation as v approaches c is the big problem.

EDIT: However, I bow to DMT's post. I'd love to be able to see the equivalent of Wikipedia a thousand years from now. Who knows what we are going to know about the Universe then.
Chiloe

Trad climber
Lee, NH
May 4, 2010 - 11:37am PT
Its easy to use covered wagon technology to dismiss commercial transcontinental flight.

Funny, I was having a randomly opposite thought last month as I looked out the window on a transcontinental flight. A relatively new 737, it was. If my younger self could time travel from a seat on one of the first jet airliners, a 707, half a century back -- I think I'd be surprised and disappointed by how *little* has changed.

The speed of sound is still there, the stratosphere is still thin, and it still ain't practical to fly an airliner any faster or higher than it was in 1960. Not only that but they *look* almost the same, apart from having 2 engines instead of 4.

Similar thoughts looking around at a highway or a home -- so much has not changed, where did the future go? Biggest change might be the digital stuff (now Avatar, that looks different!), but it's not so obvious at first. Lots of everyday mechanical things, from our cars to telephones and tvs, show incremental improvement but fall miles short of the Jetsons. And it's clear now that we're never gonna get there, never ride that spaceliner to Mars. Much less Alpha C.

Alas.
Mike Bolte

Trad climber
Planet Earth
May 4, 2010 - 11:51am PT
I don't know Chiloe, I think you need to think about 100 and 1000 and 10000 year increments.

On the other hand, it is hard for us humans on our little speck out in the boondocks of the Galaxy to get a real sense of the huge scale of the solar system, much less the solar neighborhood or the Galaxy. Human space flight to Mars is a huge challenge. It is really beyond anything we can imagine doing right now to travel to the nearest stars. But, wait 1000 years and the story will be different for sure.
Flashy P

climber
Sparks, NV
May 4, 2010 - 11:56am PT
Hi Jongy, I stayed up almost all night last night making Elmer's glue Kitty Litter holds. The first batch came out not so good, so I used a different type of kitty litter, Fresh Step instead of the bulk stuff from the PetCo. It has a great consistency and the finished holds released from the jello molds perfectly. Right now I am heating them with a butane torch to see if I can get them nice and sticky.

I sent an email to donini asking if he preferred yellow glue or Elmer's but he hasn't gotten back yet.
Chiloe

Trad climber
Lee, NH
May 4, 2010 - 12:10pm PT
It is really beyond anything we can imagine doing right now to travel to the nearest stars. But, wait 1000 years and the story will be different for sure.

For sure, it will. One way or another.
Flashy P

climber
Sparks, NV
May 4, 2010 - 12:18pm PT
Here are two jello molds I used that were inspired by this awesome thread.
Credit: Flashy P
Credit: Flashy P

My woody is looking dab!
Mighty Hiker

climber
Vancouver, B.C.
May 4, 2010 - 12:24pm PT
The physics of human interplanetary travel is daunting, but it appears that it would be feasible with current technology for humans to travel to Mars and to near Earth asteroids, at least.

The physics of human interstellar travel is insuperable, given our present and foreseeable technology, and understanding of the universe.

It's great fun reading science fiction, with all the wonderful ideas and technologies it talks about. But it's fiction.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
May 4, 2010 - 12:34pm PT
We wouldn't need to run away to the stars if we'd paid any attention to Thomas Malthus from the get-go.
donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
May 4, 2010 - 12:41pm PT
Quite a few folks here confuse fiction and fantasy with reality whatever the subject.
Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
Why'djya leave the ketchup on the table?
May 4, 2010 - 01:00pm PT
Chiloe my daughter and I were flippin channels last night, came across Star Trek Nex Gen. Now I really liked this show when it was prime time and have been a Star Trek fan my whole life, so far as I remember.

I think Captain Piccard is the most realistic 'commander' of any Star Trek version.

Anyway, they go on some 'away mission.'

"Kaity, you'd think that folks who can tele-tansport themselves through space, flick on a universal translator that can translate the air pressure waves emitting from alien species not yet encountered and can travel at speeds greater than light....

could invent a better flash light.

(they were using BULBS for christsakes!, hand held BULBS in a big square box).

My point being twofold...

1. Time waits for no science fiction. That sh#t start rotting as soon as you pick it. (hehe)

2. Often we are limited by a lack of imagination.

Example... brain to brain communication. Long a goal, eh?

I was climbing a peak in the desert, alone. Miles from no where, and no one. A vibration in my back pack alerted me to a thought.

A thought, in this case, as related by my daughter, some 300 miles away. I had a return thought and related it to her. This back and forth continued for quite some time. Then she had other thoughts, about other people, some even farther removed, and THEY commenced their thought communication across vast distances of space and time.

Its a small example of the seachange going on all around us, all the time.

50 years ago, on that 707? A child, flying with parents? That was ONE LUCKY KID! Perhaps .0001 % of humanity LUCKY.

Now that kid, an old business traveller, perhaps takes his business travel for granted. I know I do. For example, I routinely leave my arrangements to the last minute, trusting a system to 'provide.'

I get on the plane in the morning and get off a few hours later, a continent away, and go have some dinner and go to bed.

That's a damn miracle!

Hehe.

Who knows what trans' light speed horrors await us in the Great Void?

The Shadow Knows.

DMT
Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
Why'djya leave the ketchup on the table?
May 4, 2010 - 01:04pm PT
Come, Dingus, tell us what you're up to.

Who is 'us' precisely? You playing to the room?

DMT
Flashy P

climber
Sparks, NV
May 4, 2010 - 01:36pm PT
I don't know what you mean by weeded out. Am I not welcome here? I thought I would be able to get some good information on creating plastic hand holds, because SuperTopo is where all the best climbers post.

Rock jock is a term we use in the gym a lot. Do you have a lot of experience with comp climbing? That is the kind of climbing I love, it's the hardest type of climbing and takes the most dedication.
donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
May 4, 2010 - 01:39pm PT
Flashy P, Flashy P look before you leap. You might want to do a little reading about alpine climbing before you talk about difficulty and dedication.
Weld_it

Trad climber
Chatsworth
May 4, 2010 - 01:42pm PT
Rokjox is the conductor on the hate trane bra. I'm going to try out the mexican hold metihd later this week. sweet action bra!
Flashy P

climber
Sparks, NV
May 4, 2010 - 01:49pm PT
You're right, I will. Do you have any mag recomendations? I read a lot of Urban Climber and RocktPunkt, RocktPunkt I only look at the pictures. There was a rad send in Tyrolia by Gunter Funchtengh last month.

You have to train so hard to be dab on the woody. It look like when you are going on snow climbs you need to camp out a lot, that would be fun. I don't think you need to train as hard as you do for comps though.
LithiumMetalman

Trad climber
cesspool central
May 4, 2010 - 01:50pm PT
Theories are, well just very well-educated opinions, right?

For the last 70 years we have roughly based our understanding of relativity off Einsteins General Theory of Relativity.

It's a theory describing gravity as a geometric property of space and time.

However, it does not fully connect or answer the fundamental question of how general relativity can be reconciled with the laws of quantum physics to produce a complete and self-consistent theory of quantum gravity

For the most part, most of Einstein's theory has been been confirmed via observation or experimentally, however it is not the only theory on relativity of gravity.

It is by far the simplest, yet most consistent.

Is it the complete picture? No. It is a well-educated and formulated opinion that is mostly correct


Another example. Let's take a look at:

Mass-energy equivalence (part or relativity):

which we famously know it as

E = mc2 where energy and mass are equivalent and transmutable.

Basically states that any given amount of mass is equivalent to a certain amount of energy, and vice versa.

E=mc2 also is a basis on the interaction of matter and nuclear processes.

However matter is poorly understood, we have only rough understanding.

E=mc2 only explains the origin of energy of nuclear processes, not the origin of the energy.

Regardless, Einstein was the first to establish this theory just as Newton was one of the first to establish the theory of Universal Law of Gravity


The point is not to say E=mc2 or general relativity is right or wrong, the point is to realize that great ideas and understanding is based off "well-educated opinions that help point us into the right direction"

Einstein tweaked, refined, and based his understanding of general relativity off Newtonian gravitational laws, Lorentz's transformation, etc. to come up with world defining equations.

But that's it folks, not an end-all, be-all answer, it's a "guiding point in the right direction" a basis to be expounded upon, explored, refine, and if need be *gasp* changed

http://news.softpedia.com/news/The-First-Test-That-Proves-General-Theory-of-Relativity-Wrong-20259.shtml

Theories is how we learn and try to understand our world by refining, tweaking, digesting, regurgitating, incorporating ideas & most importantly imagining.

Imaginative well-educated opinions built upon other imaginative well-educated opinions.


“If at first, the idea is not absurd, then there is no hope for it, we can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them. The important thing is not to stop questioning. Curiosity has its own reason for existing.” -Albert Einstein


Cheers






Weld_it

Trad climber
Chatsworth
May 4, 2010 - 01:52pm PT
soooooo cool! I knew Rokjox was bad-0! Do you train to compete and what sort of holds to like best to get strong for compitiion? Any homemade holds?
Weld_it

Trad climber
Chatsworth
May 4, 2010 - 01:56pm PT
any of you hard dudes use that 8anew site to log your radness? Waht is your user name on there Rokjox? RAD SIGHT!
LithiumMetalman

Trad climber
cesspool central
May 4, 2010 - 01:57pm PT
Everyone is entitled to an opinion.

No matter how logical or how illogical it is.

I think both are needed or else we're stagnant.
Flashy P

climber
Sparks, NV
May 4, 2010 - 01:58pm PT
RokJox, thanks for your post. I knew you must be a comp climber. Maybe I'll try to comp in the Pocatello Pump next year, is the prize money good?

Have you ever won a comp before? You sound experienced. Will you tell me what holds are the best to train on for the Pocatello Pump? Do they use a certain brand or do they make their own plastic handholds?

I'm in a 4 day a week training cycle right now, I do Pilates and weights on the days off. I got a new creatine shake that is really bulikg my laterals up but may be giving me too much calf muscle. I measured them last week and they are 1/4 inch bigger this week.

You really do have to train much harder to comp than to climb outside, and the rope skills you need are way more serious.
Weld_it

Trad climber
Chatsworth
May 4, 2010 - 02:03pm PT
Pokeatello Pump sounds like something they do in Kentucky! LOL
scuffy b

climber
Where only the cracks are dry
May 4, 2010 - 02:09pm PT
Weld_it,


you really must control your enthusiasm for natural plastic holds.
Leave that for Jongy and Flashy P.
You must not dilute your essence, so to speak.
Remember, school is almost out.
Concentrate on improving your shunts, so you and Lost Arrow can go up on
El Cap and Kick Some Asss.

Remember this mantra:

Welders Are Rad
Flashy P

climber
Sparks, NV
May 4, 2010 - 02:10pm PT
Some comp names are real funny. The Ein Fahrtung at Huchster Palak in Dresden is really funny. They use homemade hold holds molded from local climbs, then recreate the exact climb indoors. Good prize money, scoring Euros is way more dabbed than dollars, it's 3 for one. I paid for almost half my airfair last year with my second place win.
Chiloe

Trad climber
Lee, NH
May 4, 2010 - 02:36pm PT
That was ONE LUCKY KID!

Hah, old enuf to recall Pan Am at Idlewild!
And when Connie's and Electra's were the cool thing before that. Never flew those but I could still spot one in a flash, head's full of clutter like that.

But that 737 last month, I know it's just an econoboxed 707 in its heart.
Klimmer

Mountain climber
San Diego
Topic Author's Reply - May 4, 2010 - 02:51pm PT
HFCS,

Lay off the corn syrup.

Man what a rant.


Perhaps you would like to rant about Sir Isaac Newton writing and having the following book published after his death. He didn't want to hear the rantings of someone like you. Step out of the box and take a chance. Doing so leads to discovery. Go ahead and ridicule Sir Isaac. I dare you.


Been on my Amazon.com wish list for some time. Haven't read it yet but I certainly intend to. Don't give me those weak arguments about how he had to believe because everyone else did around him.

No Sir Isaac thought for himself.

Observations Upon the Prophecies of Daniel and the Apocalypse of St. John [Paperback]
Isaac Newton (Author)
http://www.amazon.com/Observations-Upon-Prophecies-Daniel-Apocalypse/dp/1449599699/ref=wl_it_dp_o?ie=UTF8&coliid=I3E6WC5ZCI13FO&colid=2GL3DFQ4AXH2G

This is the same book in which he predicts the end of the World to occur in 2060 AD.

Weld_it

Trad climber
Chatsworth
May 4, 2010 - 02:55pm PT
so you guys climb and place in rad comps! COOL!

Who is radder, Rokjox or westchrist?
Flashy P

climber
Sparks, NV
May 4, 2010 - 02:59pm PT
RokJox sounds dedicated and driven. My bud Doughboy is the dabbest comper I know. He's under 3% body fat, I've seen him go2 days without eating, then carb load and caffeine binge,then crush at a comp.
Weld_it

Trad climber
Chatsworth
May 4, 2010 - 03:02pm PT
Try to keep it on topic dudes! This thread is about spacemen!
Chiloe

Trad climber
Lee, NH
May 4, 2010 - 03:05pm PT
This thread is about spacemen!

We're all spacemen on this bus.
Flashy P

climber
Sparks, NV
May 4, 2010 - 03:45pm PT
I like to show up at local comps and crush, it helps the climbers who live there realize that they need to dedicate more to the sport if they really want to succeed. 30% body fat is a lot RokJox, your Doctor must have measured you wrong, because that would make you obese, and there is no way that you could win the Pocatello comp if you were fat!
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
May 4, 2010 - 03:46pm PT
I'd say the question is whether comps eventually get you off the planet, ground under the next glacier, or consumed by an uber CA-MRSA. Also not sure if placing high is really a case of advancing the species.
Flashy P

climber
Sparks, NV
May 4, 2010 - 03:51pm PT
I'm not sure I understand. As far as the evolution of climbing goes, I bet in another 100 years that everyone will climb indoors because the outdoor cliffs just won't be hard enough anymore, and people will still be dabbing huge.

But what about making plastic holds? There has to be someone with a good recipe out there. I just tried to bolt on my new kitty litter holds and they crumbled when I drilled them. Should I use epoxy? That might be slick and it has not natural ingredients in it.
Weld_it

Trad climber
Chatsworth
May 4, 2010 - 03:56pm PT
i totally got this!

http://cgi.ebay.com/Vintage-Copper-Color-Rooster-Jello-Mold-Wall-Hanging-/330380835230?cmd=ViewItem&pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4cec3b799e#ht_500wt_1182

working on the mexicans recipe maybe later today after class
Jongy

Gym climber
Ciudad Juárez, Ch Mexico
May 4, 2010 - 03:58pm PT
I am not a mexican.
Weld_it

Trad climber
Chatsworth
May 4, 2010 - 04:01pm PT
sorry. i saw the 2 hats and just figgered. Isnt juarez in Mexico? are you just visiting?
Flashy P

climber
Sparks, NV
May 4, 2010 - 04:04pm PT
That hold is dabbed! You could put it on a runout where the last bolt is about knee level and you have to reach.

Jongy, are you like Central American? You guys are super strong on the greasy holds. Training in the humidity is hard. I even run a dehumidifier in my woody room and an air filter so the chalk doesn't affect my performance. I'd like to make home made natural chalk too.
brotherbbock

Trad climber
Alta Loma, CA
May 4, 2010 - 04:08pm PT
I am amazed that this thread blew up like this.

Inter-terrestrial beings on the moon to escape God flooding the Earth???????

Guess I should start putting more bullshit in my TR's if I want to generate more discussion.
Jongy

Gym climber
Ciudad Juárez, Ch Mexico
May 4, 2010 - 04:14pm PT
My mom is mexican indian and pops was from New Zealand. Pops lives in Chattanooga now though. I was born here in Juarez. The best rock climbing is indoors. I climbed my first 5.13 indoor rock climb when I was 17. Lot's of sex since then has kept me feeling young and in shape. Thank you for asking.

My first All Natural Hold. It's a sloper and I like slopers. I have small hands.

Credit: Jongy

Credit: Jongy

Credit: Jongy
Flashy P

climber
Sparks, NV
May 4, 2010 - 04:17pm PT
Gorilla Glue, I never heard of that but it sounds good for climbing. Using that dung and a coconut shell make that a really natural hold Jongy! That's really creative. I guess in a place like Mexico you have to be able to use all of your resources.
Weld_it

Trad climber
Chatsworth
May 4, 2010 - 04:18pm PT
is donnini mexican?

that hold is sofa-king-cool bra!
Jongy

Gym climber
Ciudad Juárez, Ch Mexico
May 4, 2010 - 04:20pm PT
The sand is really natural too. I had to catch a bus across the boarder to get it. I don't have a green card so I snuck across in a suitcase. I'm little. I'm just glad I'm not in arizona where they would arrest me.
Flashy P

climber
Sparks, NV
May 4, 2010 - 04:21pm PT
I think I read in a mag that he was from Portugal, and did a lot of deep water soloing there. He hangs out mostly in Thailand though now.
Weld_it

Trad climber
Chatsworth
May 4, 2010 - 04:26pm PT
i read in urban climber that Donnnini was Cambodian and still badass at like 80!!!

I'm not cambodian but Ibet in 60+ years ill be badass too LOL
Flashy P

climber
Sparks, NV
May 4, 2010 - 04:29pm PT
He said that Alpine climbing was the bomb. I think camping out is easy. I slept in my dad's volvo station wagon once at a comp in Houston behind the gym. It rained and I had the sun roof open, so I kind of suffered big time. My down quilt got damp and I stained the leather on the passenger seat. You don't have to train to camp.
Klimmer

Mountain climber
San Diego
Topic Author's Reply - May 4, 2010 - 04:32pm PT
I'm seriously thinking everyone on ST suffers from ADHD. Even me sometimes.

What were we talking about again?
Jongy

Gym climber
Ciudad Juárez, Ch Mexico
May 4, 2010 - 04:34pm PT
my all natural climbing holds
Credit: Jongy
Weld_it

Trad climber
Chatsworth
May 4, 2010 - 04:35pm PT
Spacemens DUDE!!! get some more links up
donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
May 4, 2010 - 04:39pm PT
Kinda seems like they've been sniffing the glue.
Flashy P

climber
Sparks, NV
May 4, 2010 - 04:54pm PT
I like the talking about holds and comping, because that's where it's at. With RokJox and donini here I feel like I can learn a lot about diet and from Jongy I can learn about making due with what you've got. I still say that comping is way more core than camping, even if you're camped on a mountain top.
Weld_it

Trad climber
Chatsworth
May 4, 2010 - 04:56pm PT
outside climbing is cool but being in the gym with all the colors and stuff is damn cool too


scuffy b
Weld_it,
you really must control your enthusiasm for natural plastic holds.
Leave that for Jongy and Flashy P.
You must not dilute your essence, so to speak.
Remember, school is almost out.
Concentrate on improving your shunts, so you and Lost Arrow can go up on
El Cap and Kick Some Asss.

Remember this mantra:

Welders Are Rad

hell yeah BRA! I totally got that!

I'm welding up a poop tube right now for me and juan and lost arrow for our elcap ascent
photo not found
Missing photo ID#156104
Flashy P

climber
Sparks, NV
May 4, 2010 - 05:44pm PT
Wow- those are some cool tools. I wish I had tools like that. I bet I could get my handmade plastic holds really sticky with that.
Weld_it

Trad climber
Chatsworth
May 4, 2010 - 11:29pm PT
how did that hold turn out jongy?
Cosmiccragsman

Trad climber
AKA Dwain, from Apple Valley, California
May 4, 2010 - 11:35pm PT
Hey Weld_it;
Let's go climbing sometime,
and talk about Aliens and Klowns,
and maybe you can pass onto me some of your welding secrets.
Weld_it

Trad climber
Chatsworth
May 4, 2010 - 11:36pm PT
sorry bra, I don't climb with drug users. I just say no.
Shack

Big Wall climber
Reno NV
May 4, 2010 - 11:42pm PT
Good idea on the metal poop toob bro! Way more bomber.
Plastic is ghey.
Is that a TiG?
What kind of rod you using?

Edit: With the 3 of you guys on el cap, you might want to make it bigger.
Cosmiccragsman

Trad climber
AKA Dwain, from Apple Valley, California
May 4, 2010 - 11:43pm PT
So you don"t DRINK either?
That's as much a DRUG as Hippy Lettuce is.
Klimmer

Mountain climber
San Diego
Topic Author's Reply - May 5, 2010 - 01:18am PT
Oh-kay, ladies and gentleman . . .

Here are some things to watch that go into the Hidden History of the Human Race. Not all of this is true. But you have to admit that we do not know our history very well. There are many discoveries that modern Archeology, and Anthropology can not explain, and often times ignores. I find it fascinating to think about.

Something is up. We need to know. Ask questions and seek answers.


The Hidden History of the Human Race:
http://projectavalon.net/lang/en/klaus_dona_en.html
http://projectavalon.net/Klaus_Dona_2.mp4

Ancient Aliens:
History Channel - Ancient Aliens (2009 Version) This program reveals that although alien sightings have become a big part of modern pop culture, they're nothing new. For thousands of years, people all around the world have pointed to the skies and seen incredible flying objects. Dramatic re-creations, historical artifacts and interviews with leading UFO experts make a case that alien life forms have been in contact with Earth since ancient times. David Hatcher Childress, Erich von Däniken, Michael Cremo, Jason Martell and many others interviewed.
URL:
http://www.youtube.com/user/RedIceHenrik#grid/user/0A4A2BD944FF646C

Ancient Aliens - (Fallen Angels) History Channel Documentary
http://uk.video.yahoo.com/watch/3848169/10503196

Japanese Atlantis – Japan
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zIu2rA0yd9s&feature=fvw

Fascinating Ancient Egyptian airplane yacht and helicopter etched into 2000 year old tomb Ancient Technology Or just hieroglyphics?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FCkmzftJkbE

Volare: Discovering Ancient airplanes!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0yvfxWWF8YM&feature=related


evidence for giants nephilim rephaim anunaki part 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N63lhtx2q8o&feature=related
evidence for giants nephilim rephaim anunaki part 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=18CY7ZaCfzY&feature=related

Forbidden History of The Nephilim Part1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ek4F65iqQBk&feature=related
Forbidden History of The Nephilim Part 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wxygR6gtYUE&feature=related
Forbidden History of The Nephilim Part 3
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vRy96RPX4rE&feature=related
Forbidden History of The Nephilim Part 4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FbPth0yB0A4&feature=related



Chuck Missler: The Return of the Nephilim 1/12
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xCk4VMTGme4

Cosmiccragsman

Trad climber
AKA Dwain, from Apple Valley, California
May 5, 2010 - 01:29am PT
Hey Klimmer;
I have a LOT of Chuck Misler cassettes
if you ever want to borrow them.

Also, Klimmer, Here is a good Book you can read online
or purchase, at this link if you are interested.

http://www.creationscience.com/onlinebook/


Cosmic
Klimmer

Mountain climber
San Diego
Topic Author's Reply - May 5, 2010 - 01:59am PT
Cosmic,

Thanks. Yes, I like Chuck Missler also.

However, I'm a Theistic Evolutionist. I am not in agreement with a young Earth. The Earth is about 4.6 Billion years old and the Universe is about 14 Billion years old. The science works. It is as old as radiometric dating indicates.

Where GOD talks about dinosaurs in the Old Testament, and he does! in Bible Code in the same exact area of the Bible it mentions Dinosaurs and the Asteroid Impact and their demise. That happened about 65 Million years ago. Michael Drosnin's book Bible Code discusses this in detail. Also Bible Code gave the exact date for the Shoemaker-Levy impact prior to it impacting into Jupiter. Amazing but true.

I agree with their faith in Jesus, GOD. But Creation Research out in El Cajon, I just have to smile and nod my head and be nice when I talk to Christians who beleive that way. My parents are that way. I have to be gentle always.

Christians have to move toward science. And Science has to move toward GOD. In the end both will be in agreement. I firmly believe that.
Weld_it

Trad climber
Chatsworth
May 5, 2010 - 02:11am PT
totally want to see some bibel code links
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
May 5, 2010 - 03:21am PT
What, No Trolls, Dragons, or Hobbits? What kind of two-bit planet is this?
willie!!!!!

Trad climber
99827
May 5, 2010 - 03:27am PT
Klimmer-

Although I am not religious and thing the bible code stuff is insane, I have found some of your "info" interesting. I sure as heck am not afraid of exploring the possibilities.

I'm really impressed with how you blow off the frat-boy onslaught and stick to your guns. And you managed to get a rise out of Ed, who as far as I can tell is one of the most laid-back hippies on earth.

Black female non-existent god-speed to you.
Ed Hartouni

Trad climber
Livermore, CA
May 5, 2010 - 03:41am PT
it's just the blind adherence to belief that astonishes me...

the bible code? same as staring at the ceiling looking for patterns... you'll find them...
willie!!!!!

Trad climber
99827
May 5, 2010 - 05:15am PT
Trust me, Ed, I hear ya. No disrespect intended.

I have marveled at YOUR ability to stay cool and factual. That's why seeing you get a little hot was noteworthy.
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
May 5, 2010 - 05:41am PT
"Fratboy" - yeah right, you just keep projecting that claptrap...
Klimmer

Mountain climber
San Diego
Topic Author's Reply - May 5, 2010 - 09:22am PT
Ed,

I do respect your ability to do science and your knowledge of science. I do no doubt. Far beyond me. I have learned lots from you.

However, just patterns in the ceiling?

OK, please tell me what this perfect 3D dome is doing in the middle of an impact crater on the surface of Mars? What could it possibly be? What Geologic/Impact phenomenon would allow this to happen? We understand the physics of impacts pretty well now. It is empirical. We can measure it. We can predict the crater size from the projectlie size. And we can predict the projectile size from the crater size.

This massive 500 ft or so 3D dome on Mars doesn't fit any of the physics known. (But it would be a perfect place to build a structure).

So Ed, what is your hypothesis as to what it is? And don't tell me it is sand blowing into the crater and forming a perfect 3D dome. PPppppppppfffff.

http://ida.wr.usgs.gov/html/m15012/m1501228.html





Here is PhD Melosh's Impact Crater Calculator on-line:
http://www.lpl.arizona.edu/tekton/crater.html


Klimmer

Mountain climber
San Diego
Topic Author's Reply - May 5, 2010 - 09:28am PT
I wish Michael Drosnin's book Bible Code was completely on-line but it isn't. There does seem to be bits and pieces of it though.

Here is a website that has copied some sections. Too bad they didn't copy the entire section of interest though.

Talking about impacts, dinosuars and Bible Code . . .

http://www.muphin.net/biblecode/07.htm



Edit:

Actually it seems you can go chapter be chapter . . .
http://www.muphin.net/biblecode/
http://www.muphin.net/biblecode/01.htm
Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
Why'djya leave the ketchup on the table?
May 5, 2010 - 10:48am PT
Oh I knows what that is!

DMT
Klimmer

Mountain climber
San Diego
Topic Author's Reply - May 5, 2010 - 11:17am PT
MB,

Nice try. The graphic you posted is not to scale and is for complex craters. Central uplift in craters has very particular dimensions and size relative to the crater surrounding it. This is known and empirical, and predictive.

The official image I posted on Mars is a simple crater, not a complex crater.

Choose a better graphic for a complex crater that is to scale and you will see the error in the graphic you posted. There are very specific ratio sizes in regards to the central uplift and the diameter of the complex crater.

Douglas Rhiner

Mountain climber
Good question?!?!?!?!?
May 5, 2010 - 11:32am PT
Damn Irish giants....... how did they get the blocks so perfect?


Credit: Douglas Rhiner


Credit: Douglas Rhiner
Ed Hartouni

Trad climber
Livermore, CA
May 5, 2010 - 11:44am PT
my hypothesis?
certainly looks like an impact crater to me

the morphology of craters depends on the local geology, the particulars of the impacter, the weathering of the site, etc... all of these are much more probable than concluding it is a structure built by aliens.

Further, it is difficult to tell, just from a satellite image, what is on the ground. Many images, with many different light angles, or better yet SAR (Synthetic Aperture Radar) images of the ground are better (wasn't there a SAR instrument on MRO?).

to my way of thinking, and I am an old fart, probably with a lot less intellectual creativity and openness then I used to have, is: impact crater highly probable, alien structure improbable.

If I were a research manager at NASA I probably wouldn't put a lot of resources (or any) into investigating such a thing.

As for the bible code, there is published mathematical/statistical literature showing that the decoded patterns are unspecific and agree with what you would expect from random coincidence. To extract prophecy from the code requires interpretation of the decoded "phrases." It is how horoscopes work, the "predictions" are so general that they can be interpreted as relevant, there is not predictive value as almost any outcome can be used to "prove" the fortune.

DMT complains that we lack imagination about the future, I suspect he thinks that some of modern physics is a bit airy-fairy... I remind you all that when Einstein formulated his "Special Theory of Relativity" it was published in 1905. The first powered air flight was in 1903. It was also in 1905 that Einstein published his explanation of the "photoelectric effect" by which electrons are ejected from the surface of a metal when light is shined on that surface. His explanation was the first application of quantum mechanics in a "modern form."

Einstein's third paper of that year was the explanation of Brownian motion, the random jittering of small particles on fluid surfaces due to the motion of atoms hitting the particle... a direct observation of atoms, if you will.

Atoms, quanta, space-time... in 1905. Most of you reading this have only a passing, superficial understanding of any of it, as you use technologies built from it, coming 105 years ago.

Don't lecture on the lack of imagination... there is a world out there which is imagined, in the same fantastic detail, and probably with the same importance 100 years hence.
Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
Why'djya leave the ketchup on the table?
May 5, 2010 - 11:53am PT
To what post are you replying there Ed? I don't recall saying Einstein lacked imagination.

DMT
Ed Hartouni

Trad climber
Livermore, CA
May 5, 2010 - 11:57am PT
May 4, 2010 - 08:10am PT
If someone told the Donner Party, at their departure from St Louis, that someday (soon) they could walk into a hollow metal tube, close the door and fly through the air, to California, in a little over 3 hours time, eating lousy, expensive food (but its not PEOPLE).

They would have and could have come up with all sorts of 'that's impossible' scenarios.

And they would have been right. But a hundred seventy some odd years later.... things have changed.

Just as our current notions of the cosmos will change. WILL change.

Its easy to use covered wagon technology to dismiss commercial transcontinental flight.

DMT

I refrain, usually, from stating what is technically impossible... I hate to say "you can't do that" unless well understood "laws of nature" are violated...

...and I do believe that things will change. But those seeds of change are here already...
Flashy P

climber
Sparks, NV
May 5, 2010 - 11:59am PT
I got very imaginative last night while working on my home made natural plastic handholds. Some came out pretty good, and I nailed a few to my woody. They took nails much better through pre drilled holes than trying to drill out large diameter holes for bolts. I made some pinner holds but also some buckets, using molds cast from my body parts filled with a mixture of gorilla glue and kitty litter. I trained very hard last night, no comping in the near future but if I want to be a truly dedicated climber who performs at the top of the ratings scale, I need to work hard every day.
Port

Trad climber
San Diego
May 5, 2010 - 12:01pm PT
May 4, 2010 - 08:10am PT
If someone told the Donner Party, at their departure from St Louis, that someday (soon) they could walk into a hollow metal tube, close the door and fly through the air, to California, in a little over 3 hours time, eating lousy, expensive food (but its not PEOPLE).

They would have and could have come up with all sorts of 'that's impossible' scenarios.

And they would have been right. But a hundred seventy some odd years later.... things have changed.

Just as our current notions of the cosmos will change. WILL change.

Its easy to use covered wagon technology to dismiss commercial transcontinental flight.

DMT

This statement can be used to justify the most improbable of predictions. I doesn't get us anywhere.
Flashy P

climber
Sparks, NV
May 5, 2010 - 12:07pm PT
has anyone else been experimenting with home made handholds? Hopefully Weld_it will get back in here and talk about his upcoming Nose climb. He is an indoor climbing, so I'm sure he will dab that send. Outdoor climbers would be way better if they'd just dedicate to being the best they possibly can and learning the skills to climb the upper grades. It's too bad they think .13 is hard and don't realize their full potential.
Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
Why'djya leave the ketchup on the table?
May 5, 2010 - 12:12pm PT
Fine. You don't like my statements. They are true nonetheless. I'm not justifying any prediction. I am dismissing a prediction (as pure conjecture) that interstellar space travel is impossible. To paraphrase Mr Costanza...

YOU DON'T KNOW THAT!!!111

DMT
Ed Hartouni

Trad climber
Livermore, CA
May 5, 2010 - 12:18pm PT
In the winter of 1846-1847 the Donner Party lived their infamous encampment in the Sierra, drawn to the promise of California.

James Clerk Maxwell entered the University of Edinburgh later that year. Less than a decade later he was on the path to synthesize the work of the highly mathematical German physics community and the highly empirical work of the English physics community into what we now recognize as Electromagnetism, also Classical Electrodynamics.

Electricity and magnetism were the first forces to be "unified" in a long standing program in physics pursing the notion that all forces are manifestations of a single force, though Maxwell didn't recognize what he was initiating, not all the forces of nature were known to him then...

It is true that given the plight of the Donner party, little from this world of physics could intervene to change their fates. And what could have possibly done so, from Maxwell's contribution, wasn't available until the advent of radio, based on the research of Hertz in 1888, and applied by Marconi in the 1890s. But I still marvel over the compact radios we now all use, the application of semiconductor technologies of the last decade... and of the idea that a small radio transmitter could transmit our distress signal with precise coordinates to an international emergency response network.

That came too late for the Donners.
Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
Why'djya leave the ketchup on the table?
May 5, 2010 - 12:20pm PT
Ed - Yup precisely my point.

DMT
Ed Hartouni

Trad climber
Livermore, CA
May 5, 2010 - 12:21pm PT
but we do know what would be required for interstellar space flight

we can write the specifications, then see what the technologies would have to provide...
...once done, you can decide for yourself if it is "impossible"
Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
Why'djya leave the ketchup on the table?
May 5, 2010 - 12:22pm PT
westy that's one way of looking at it I suppose.

Me I subscribe to the apoc floods as coming mostly from the flooding of the Black Sea.

So I don't get my balls wadded up over 6000 year old earth bullsh#t. Its really a side show.

DMT
Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
Why'djya leave the ketchup on the table?
May 5, 2010 - 12:25pm PT
We know how to build a covered wagon and clearly our space covered wagons are not up to the job of interstellar travel, *based on what we know today.*

Hence my Donner analogy.

Look we're going no where, here. Ciao,

DMT
Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
Why'djya leave the ketchup on the table?
May 5, 2010 - 12:25pm PT
Whatever, wes.

DMT
Pate

Trad climber
May 5, 2010 - 01:03pm PT
Credit: Pate
I can't believe some of the more reputable STians are actually seriously discussing this complete BS.

That's Klimmer on the right.

Ed lurking in the back left corner.

Dingus front left.

Wes pounding his head on the arm of the chair, rightly so.

Phantom X

Trad climber
Honeycomb Hideout
May 5, 2010 - 01:38pm PT
But how did the Donner Party get the ark on the moon? Explain that.
Klimmer

Mountain climber
San Diego
Topic Author's Reply - May 5, 2010 - 01:44pm PT
PX,

Man that made me laugh! Lol. :-))

I seriously think that photo of the insane is a great capture of ST. He-he. Man that is the truth.

Yes, I throw out crazy ideas and then see what sticks. Asking questions and making observations is the start of the process . . .
graniteclimber

Trad climber
Nowhere
May 5, 2010 - 01:45pm PT
Conspiracy Theories Explained
Random events are deeply meaningful to paranoid schizophrenics. Is something happening in their brains?
By Kathleen McGowan, published on November 01, 2004 - last reviewed on February 20, 2007

Paranoid schizophrenics are prone to delusions, tales in which random events become deeply meaningful. Some believe in complex conspiracies; others think they are Jesus Christ.

These stories sound crazy, but they may be the brain's efforts to make sense of its own internal messages, suggests Shitij Kapur, professor of psychiatry at the University of Toronto and vice president of research at the Canadian Centre for Addiction and Mental Health. In addition to other brain abnormalities, schizophrenics have too much dopamine. Just as addicts' desensitized dopamine systems make them feel that nothing matters, high levels of the neurotransmitter make schizophrenics believe that everything is significant.

Because the addict's dopamine-driven salience system keeps telling her that something very important is happening, ordinary events appear intensely meaningful. That police car? That song on the radio? That man with a cigarette walking by? They must be part of a massive international conspiracy.

Kapur calls it "biased inductive logic"—a top-down effort to explain the feeling that everything seems important. The cognitive parts of a schizophrenic's brain create the paranoid tale in an effort to explain the constant red alert blaring from the dopamine circuits, using any stimuli available. This is why delusions are culturally appropriate. African schizophrenics may fear they've fallen under the spell of a shaman, while Kapur's patients in Toronto think that the Mounties are after them.

Kapur cautions that this theory is still speculative, but it could support a radical idea: treating schizophrenia with cognitive therapy. If drugs control the overactive dopamine system, patients may then gradually unlearn their delusions.
Pate

Trad climber
May 5, 2010 - 01:49pm PT
Shitij

Hard to take a guy named Shitij seriously. Or Klimmer.
Klimmer

Mountain climber
San Diego
Topic Author's Reply - May 5, 2010 - 01:49pm PT
Here is a user friendly article on Simple vs. Complex Impact Craters . . .

http://www.psi.edu/explorecraters/background.htm

bmacd

Trad climber
Beautiful, BC
May 5, 2010 - 02:09pm PT
This thread reminds me of stuff I have video taped that people tell me can't possibly exist


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wormhole

The American theoretical physicist John Archibald Wheeler coined the term wormhole in 1957.

The theory of general relativity predicts that if traversable wormholes exist, they could allow time travel.

Traversable wormholes

Lorentzian traversable wormholes would allow travel from one part of the universe to another part of that same universe very quickly or would allow travel from one universe to another. The possibility of traversable wormholes in general relativity was first demonstrated by Kip Thorne and his graduate student Mike Morris in a 1988 paper; for this reason, the type of traversable wormhole they proposed, held open by a spherical shell of exotic matter, is referred to as a Morris-Thorne wormhole. Later, other types of traversable wormholes were discovered as allowable solutions to the equations of general relativity, including a variety analyzed in a 1989 paper by Matt Visser, in which a path through the wormhole can be made in which the traversing path does not pass through a region of exotic matter. However in the pure Gauss-Bonnet theory (a modification to general relativity involving extra spatial dimensions which is sometimes studied in the context of brane cosmology) exotic matter is not needed in order for wormholes to exist- they can exist even with no matter.[6] A type held open by negative mass cosmic strings was put forth by Visser in collaboration with Cramer et al.,[3] in which it was proposed that such wormholes could have been naturally created in the early universe.

Wormholes connect two points in spacetime, which means that they would in principle allow travel in time, as well as in space. In 1988, Morris, Thorne and Yurtsever worked out explicitly how to convert a wormhole traversing space into one traversing time.[7] However, according to general relativity it would not be possible to use a wormhole to travel back to a time earlier than when the wormhole was first converted into a time machine by accelerating one of its two mouths.[8]
survival

Big Wall climber
A Token of My Extreme
May 5, 2010 - 02:18pm PT
Phantom X

Trad climber
Honeycomb Hideout
May 5, 2010 - 02:19pm PT
Klimmer, we think your great here on our craft. I wish my son had you for a physics coach back when he was attending school, he loves stuff like this! You've met his mom, she's from Mars. She's my favorite Martian! It seems again that I am disappointed with Ed. All I can say is there you go again Ed. I gotta go cause I'm getting yelled at, keep up the good stuff. Glenn, can you please post the U-tube of John Glenn punching the skeptic? Thanks, PX
Klimmer

Mountain climber
San Diego
Topic Author's Reply - May 5, 2010 - 02:29pm PT
OK Mike,

I'm gonna make it easy.


http://www.psi.edu/explorecraters/background.htm

Simple Craters:

"The image to the left is a very simple, bowl shaped crater on the Moon and is typical of small craters that have formed relatively recently. It has a raised rim around the edge, and nice, sharp features. These sorts of craters are usually only a handful of miles across, at the most, on planets like the Earth, Mars, and the Moon."


Complex Craters:

"As mentioned before, not all craters are the same. While the smallest craters on a planet will be nice, simple bowl shapes, the medium to large-sized craters (my note: these will be miles across in diameter) will have a more complex form. Scientists refer to these as 'complex' craters. Like the crater shown here to the left, they can have ridges or 'terraces' inside of their rims with flatter floors, and a central peak, or ring of peaks.

The same goes for the lunar crater on the right. The floor is flatter, the crater rim is broken by many terraces, and the central group of peaks is in the form of a ring."


It is a matter of scale. The image of the crater on Mars is a simple crater. It is about 1500 ft in diameter. It cannot be a complex crater with a central uplift. To be a complex crater it has to be miles in diameter to have the energy necessary to form a central uplift.


I hope you are now clear on it. This is known. They have modelled Simple and Complex Craters. They are different by size in diameter, and also the Kinetic Energy involved. Only a complex crater forms a central uplift. But to be a complex crater it has to have a very large diameter. Miles in diameter, not a few 1500 ft.

healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
May 5, 2010 - 02:32pm PT
I am dismissing a prediction (as pure conjecture) that interstellar space travel is impossible.

I didn't say that - I said that interstellar travel is highly improbable from multiple perspectives. It's improbable from the perspective of a civilization acquiring the knowledge, technology and energy required. It's improbable from the perspective of a civilization surviving geological and biological events with the knowledge, technology and energy necessary for it. It's improbably from the perspective of an advanced civilization agreeing on investing the requisite resources for essentially no forseeable gain.

I said the material and energy demands necessary to source, build, and propel a craft the size of the one conjectured in the original post makes it a ludicrous proposition. I said there would be no motivation or rationale for it that even vaguely approaches a basic commonsense test. What's the payback devoting what would essentially be all of a civilization's resources over milleniums to produce a craft of that size and send it on such a journey? What sort of society could hold such a focus and get the type of agreement necessary? A doomsday scenario is the only one that makes any sense at all. Play that out, though - if we knew for sure our world would end in 3010 would we all buckle down, cooperate, and start dedicating all our resources and energy to build such a thing? Right.

And think about project management on such a gig - by the time you got a couple of generations into it would the challenges of continuity of knowledge / design / fab, qa/qc, maintaining and integrating generations old technology simply sink the whole effort?

Yeah, we built pyramids, but no one but Klimmer is suggesting anyone was talking about taking a lap around the local galaxy cluster in one.
Pate

Trad climber
May 5, 2010 - 03:11pm PT
I got up this morning and my garden gnome was facing 180 degrees from where he was yesterday. He was definitely up to something last night.
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Full Silos of Iowa
May 5, 2010 - 03:31pm PT
Clearly, Klimmer's like a modern day astrologer or National Enquirer contributor and you guys like this stuff. Entertainment value. Via Buck Rogers and Left Behind fantasy, I get it now.


photo not found
Missing photo ID#156241

P.S. To the naysayers, this photo was analyzed by Special Offices at NASA and was PROVED to be authentic in 2006. Only because of ONE courageous whistleblower of conscience does the public NOW have this photo as proof.


Weld_it

Trad climber
Chatsworth
May 5, 2010 - 04:09pm PT
rokjox
dumb-asses, this forum IS made of some of the best climbers around (not that they are on this thread, except Donini, WHO IS NOT MEXICAN!

Thanks for the complioment and i never said doninii was mexican as i believe he is cambodian. the guy who is mexican is the hold maker jongy.
Flashy P

climber
Sparks, NV
May 5, 2010 - 04:47pm PT
I checked with a friend during my left hand specific crimp lock off strength training last night and donini is from Montanegro. He realized his full potential by dedicating himself to a strict diet and arms only regimine on his home made woody, he actually has some home made holds on it. He moved on to deep water soloing in Thailand where he mastered climbs up to 5.14c using no footholds, utilizing the arm skills he practiced in Montanegro. He is 31 years old, not bad for an old guy! Thankfully he doesn't comp much- he'd take a lot of podiums from me and mt friends!
Weld_it

Trad climber
Chatsworth
May 5, 2010 - 04:55pm PT
no way donnii is a Montana"negro". UrbanC says cambodia but man he can crank and those are somebig number especially over water. RAD!!!!
Phantom X

Trad climber
Honeycomb Hideout
May 5, 2010 - 04:59pm PT
Was Donini on the Donner Party?
Flashy P

climber
Sparks, NV
May 5, 2010 - 05:02pm PT
Yes those are impressive numbers, I was told last night that he frequently pulls 5.14d with ver little work, under two weeks. He is very dedicated to echievinf his personal best and realizing his full potential. I heard he will even camp out at a crag overnight in order to spend the maximum daylight hours memorizing the holds. At 31 he doesn't have much longer as a good climber, maybe of I train hard and dedicate myself I will surpass him someday! I know im better than him probably on my woody, but he is an outdoor climber, so that is trad, carrying more than 6 draws can really bring your numbers down at least a letter grade, he must train with draws weighting him down, maybe a pound or two of draws.
Klimmer

Mountain climber
San Diego
Topic Author's Reply - May 5, 2010 - 05:04pm PT
I knew it!

Ann Coulter is really kinky.


She is definately bizarre. But enough about her politics.

















Man, has this thread gone wild at times. Eyes rolling . . .
Weld_it

Trad climber
Chatsworth
May 5, 2010 - 05:07pm PT
in exactly 43 minutes i am going to buy a coconutt and upgrade my woodie
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
May 5, 2010 - 05:14pm PT
And get rid of their original bodies too, partly as a consequence of living longer.

Sigh...
Weld_it

Trad climber
Chatsworth
May 5, 2010 - 05:14pm PT
rokjox
I got a friend with a pneumatic pump on his c*#k and HE has a better stick than you do.

rokjox hows it taste? im new to choking on man stick but you seem to have a handle on it LOL






(kidding. I'm not gay, not sure about you)
Phantom X

Trad climber
Honeycomb Hideout
May 5, 2010 - 05:21pm PT
Count me out of this expedition I have to bake a spacepie.
Flashy P

climber
Sparks, NV
May 5, 2010 - 05:27pm PT
RokJox, I just saw your post, thanks for talking with me! I can help with training if you want, weight loss is easy once you dedicate yourself! I once had a friend who was dabbing on Comme La Vache at Verdun. It has a 500 yard approach from the cars, so in order to keep his calf weight down he hired a coue of local guys to carry him in a beach chair! La Sportiva took care of the bill, it was a really impressive send, he downrated the climb to 5.14b. That isn't quite his full potential, but it still was a product of his determination and dedication, along with some crafty thinking too! He probably would not have crushed it if he had not been carried for the 3 weeks he worked the route.
Weld_it

Trad climber
Chatsworth
May 5, 2010 - 06:05pm PT
rokjox
If that is what it takes to "climb" sport 5-14 I got no respect at all. Crazy idiot stuff isn't impressive. In an ass-kicking contest a guy like that ain't going to be impressive at all. I don't see Caldwell doing that crap. Or quite a number of others I could name.

Google found these pretty fast and show the approach to the diehedral wall
dihedreal wall is my bitch
dihedreal wall is my bitch
Credit: Weld_it

and getting carried accorss the parking lot of the health food store to the radness of the gym.
paper or plastic?  he does plastic!
paper or plastic? he does plastic!
Credit: Weld_it
James Doty

Trad climber
Idyllwild, Ca.
May 5, 2010 - 06:18pm PT
The stuff from those other guys is pretty dumb but weld it is funny.