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bmacd

Trad climber
Beautiful, BC
Apr 13, 2010 - 02:14am PT
one different feature about this guide is that it does not list the names of the FA parties, so no ego trips here.

Another full on guidebook botch. If it was truly an egoless guidebook the authors name should be absent as well. Kevin what are you thinking ???

Dismiss the people who had the wherewithal to put the route up by excluding them from the guidebook is a feature ? I think not. It is pure disrespect.

Approach Devils Thumb from Brandywine by snowmobile in winter. Possibly do it in a day with experienced riders / Winter Alpinists. I have a Skidoo 800 ready to rock and roll ... except I havent climbed in 10 years. Been a few years since I was out past Powder Mtn but heres a picture taken from Powder Dome summit or nearby.

Cayley with Pyroclastic in behind it ...
Cayley with Pyroclastic in behind it ...
Credit: bmacd
Tricouni

Mountain climber
Vancouver
Apr 13, 2010 - 02:31am PT
Bmacd:
Approach Devils Thumb from Brandywine by snowmobile in winter. Possibly do it in a day with experienced riders / Winter Alpinists. I have a Skidoo 800 ready to rock and roll ... except I havent climbed in 10 years. Been a few years since I was out past Powder Mtn but heres a picture.

The photo looks like Cayley (north ridge head-on) with Pyroclastic Peak behind. Vulcan's thumb not visible - is hidden by Pyroclastic. (Those wilth a smattering of geology will recognize that, if a peak is named Pyroclastic, it's not going to be clean granite....)
hamie

Social climber
Thekoots
Apr 13, 2010 - 02:40am PT
oops, my bad. the comment about no names, so no ego trips is mine. it wasn't on the cover, although the post does read as if kevin had said it. sorry all. sloppy reporting....
bmacd

Trad climber
Beautiful, BC
Apr 13, 2010 - 02:54am PT
Oh Vulcans Thumb is behind Pyrocastic, okay my mistake. Well I have the approach dialed in, in fact seems I overshot Devils thumb that trip. Definitely a full day trip from Brandywine maybe more to climb it. Of course I am hardly up for a chostastic Winter FA, ....

Uhmm is there a problem with snowmobiles ? I have been out of the loop for a while .... Does trying to save Bute Inlet give me carbon credits for my sled ? Except we used a helicopter and a Cessna at Bute ... oh boy I can't seem to do much right.

Cayley viewd from the North
Cayley viewd from the North
Credit: bmacd
bmacd

Trad climber
Beautiful, BC
Apr 13, 2010 - 03:03am PT
Ah okay found my shot of Vulcans Thumb, I believe ...
Vulcans Thumb, Pyroclastic and Cayley all behind hill in foreground
Vulcans Thumb, Pyroclastic and Cayley all behind hill in foreground
Credit: bmacd
click photo to enlarge
Chief

climber
Apr 13, 2010 - 10:15am PT

Another full on guidebook botch. If it was truly an egoless guidebook the authors name should be absent as well. Kevin what are you thinking ???
Dismiss the people who had the wherewithal to put the route up by excluding them from the guidebook is a feature ? I think not. It is pure disrespect.

Bruce, thank you for having the balls to call Kevin on his bullsh#t, revisionist, egregiously inaccurate and narrow interpretation of other peoples efforts.

His description of Cruel Shoes and Northern Lights relegate my involvement to that of virtual "also ran" rather than the guy that did the first ascent.
I also call bullshit on his claim that Loeks and Putnam got to the left side free from Merci Me before I did.

Sorry to go off on a tangent here folks but Bruce hit a long standing sore spot.
Kevin has chosen to arbitrarily misrepresent or qualify many peoples accomplishments in his guidebooks and I'm sick of it and speaking out.

Perry Beckham
bmacd

Trad climber
Beautiful, BC
Apr 13, 2010 - 11:56am PT
Look at how much the Americans value their history of climbs and climbers who put them up. Parts of this forum are a passionate testament to those pioneers. Imagine what Steve Grossman or Clint Cummins would have to say about a yosemite guidebook with no mention of who the first ascentionists are. Hartouni has everyone in a searchable database.

Anders if you want a book project forget climbing in the 70's at Squamish and consider chronicling the people who explored the coast range right up to whats going on now out there. You will have a much broader target audience.

Bruce Kay what do you think the relief is on the east face of Vulcans thumb ? The final tower looks awful, our own version of the rockies except probably far far worse. Some sledder should go out there and shoot a few HD images of the east face and drop them off at the climbing shop in Squish to rile up the new blood.

Lake Lovely Water was where I hooked up with a very large breasted Exotic french Canadian girl .... something in the water ? Definitely so - Lake Firewater ....

Perry thanks for the morning wake-up call ! Guidebooks eventually form part of the historical record, their authors perhaps don't always realize their responsibilities at the time.

Garabaldi from the north, 1978 when I was a glaciological field techni...
Garabaldi from the north, 1978 when I was a glaciological field technician working out of Sentinel Bay, Garabaldi Lake.
Credit: bmacd
click for larger image

We climbed Garabaldi from Sentinel Bay once, that was a slog ...

klk

Trad climber
cali
Apr 13, 2010 - 12:21pm PT
Look at how much the Americans value their history of climbs and climbers who put them up.

This is correct, if by "Americans" you mean roughly three dozen fat, aging, cranky alcoholics most of whom would never even consider throwing down retail for a new paperback edition of practically anything.
bmacd

Trad climber
Beautiful, BC
Apr 13, 2010 - 02:37pm PT
Guide books are part of the historical record so discussing this here is not OT or Taboo.
Ghost

climber
A long way from where I started
Apr 13, 2010 - 03:01pm PT
Look at how much the Americans value their history of climbs and climbers who put them up.

We used to value our history in Canada, too. Maybe even moreso than the Americans. The trend toward ignoring history, or pretending it isn't relevant, is sad.

Maybe on a sport crag where all that's involved is putting up one more line of bolts among dozens, the name of the bolter isn't all that important. Or maybe it is, even then.

But any of us who has spent the hundred hours per pitch required to prepare a route at Squamish, or expended the sweat and blood required to get onto something new in the Coast Range, has got to be insulted by the depersonalization of our efforts.

No guidebook author is ever going to do the job perfectly. But most try. I hope the idea of leaving out the history that goes with our names dies quickly.

D
Mighty Hiker

climber
Vancouver, B.C.
Apr 13, 2010 - 08:49pm PT
We seem to have several tangents going at once, and I can only pop by occasionally.

I once heard, second or third hand, that the rift in the BCMC in the 1920s had in part to do with Saturday night activities at the cabin on Grouse offending some of the more prim and proper members. I wonder if that, plus perhaps the usual personality clashes, precipitated the schism? It may also be that Tom Fyles was thought by a few to be overbearing - that is, too overbearing for a 'mere' postie, in those still class-ridden times. Certainly the local ACC was long seen as the establishment organization, and the BCMC a more egalitarian group. Though such generalizations have less meaning than they used to.

A history of the first 40 - 50 years of climbing at Squamish will be enough for me, I think. Just thinking and planning and literature review, the Slab Alley project, and discussion, has taken most of a year. Hopefully someone like hard-as-nails Tricouni will take up a Coast Range history, or history of mountaineering in BC - which does include some of the Rubbly/Rocky Mountains.

I once posed the question to Oploplanax as to whether there was any unnamed or unclimbed summit visible from within the boundaries of greater Vancouver. That is, a peak showing a 50 m/100 ft contour on a map. An intriguing question. (Oploplanax is a fancy word for devil's club, one of our local ornamental shrubs.)

The Vulcan's Thumb is visible from the highway north of Squamish, and perhaps we should auction off the 'right' to its first ascent to some sucker. It might be a good fundraiser for the Climbers' Access Society.

I'll be at the BCMC social tonight, drinking my tea and eating my cookie, enduring the usual maundering. They have a valid point - snowmobiles, and motorized activities generally, are inappropriate in parks and wilderness. Mountaineering and climbing are about both means and ends. As we all know, if any means of getting to the top is acceptable, there isn't much merit in the ascent. In addition to their environmental impacts, "sledheads" seem to readily confuse means and ends.

As for history... Well, we all have our own perspective on it. Climbers being a somewhat proud, territorial, and critical bunch both helps and hinders. Also, writing climbing history is not a money-making activity, unless it's dumbed down to the tourist level, with lots of pretty photos. It is feasible to make money writing guidebooks, although with changing technology perhaps not for much longer. (Advertisements in guidebooks strike me as tacky, but maybe are now necessary.) We are fortunate at Squamish to have not one but two writers and publishers of climbing guidebooks for the area. They both produce what are overall very useful publications, and do a good job. One shows some bias, in terms of who did what when. It's annoying, in that it could easily be corrected. As Ghost observes, for a generic sport-climbing area, it may not matter much. When there is some history, it's important to try to get it right, in guidebooks and all the more so in histories.

I cringe to think of errors I've made in past writing about climbing, e.g. in the 1980 guidebook. Perhaps I was young enough then that it can be forgiven.

I haven't seen the new select guide that Hamish refers to, but am looking forward to it.
Jim Brennan

Trad climber
Vancouver Canada
Apr 13, 2010 - 11:22pm PT
I read once that mountains are transcendent. This is good news for all, as we focus on methods of transport to the good stuff.

I had a dream once where I was Penduluming between big wall islands in the sun.All it meant was the subconscious was telling me I was wasting time with present endeavors and needed to pull the pin in order to be free.

Guide writing must be a thankless task regardless of the income. That the Class Warrior has a grind stone for his pencil sharpener doesn't make the accomplishment of others less valid.
bmacd

Trad climber
Beautiful, BC
Apr 13, 2010 - 11:25pm PT
the Class Warrior has already reaped what he sowed ... just as we all do
hamie

Social climber
Thekoots
Apr 14, 2010 - 12:02am PT
There is now a link to the museum site, and a link to this SuperTopo forum thread on the website of the Anachronistic Club of Canada [ACC]. We have a spy in our midst........
Ghost

climber
A long way from where I started
Apr 14, 2010 - 12:07am PT
There is now a link to the museum site, and a link to this SuperTopo forum thread on the website of the Anachronistic Club of Canada [ACC].

I took a look at the Airborne Climbers of Canada site and didn't see any link. Can you give us a url?
Chief

climber
Apr 14, 2010 - 12:10am PT
Nice work Anders.
Jim and bm, I don't see a warrior or any class.
Jim Brennan

Trad climber
Vancouver Canada
Apr 14, 2010 - 12:12am PT
Thanks Hamie !

Don't reveal your contact,unless it's Branson's naked friend.
bmacd

Trad climber
Beautiful, BC
Apr 14, 2010 - 12:17am PT
Chief sez:
Jim and bm, I don't see a warrior or any class

Touche !

We could grind this pyroclastic axe forever ....
Ed Hartouni

Trad climber
Livermore, CA
Apr 14, 2010 - 01:11am PT
there are a lot of problems with "contemporary" history in Yosemite Valley... there has been no comprehensive guide book since 1994, probably 1000s of climbs are undocumented, little of this has reported in the climbing journals because most of this development doesn't reach the level of notoriety.

Who ever wants to write whatever history they think they can, should. The development of the 70s, now 40 years ago, will be lost as that generation of climbers comes to an end.

Canadian climbing has a long, proud history, and it should be told... there are wonderful stories held by just a relatively few climbers. I don't know how to implore you all enough.... but to say that the only stories that will survive are the ones you write down. Perhaps a few of the spoken stories will be recalled and written by those young ones who have heard them and piece them together, but once their attention turns to recording history, as ours did when we got old, they will wish they knew more.

It doesn't matter in the larger scheme of things, of course, but it is something we once did, it was the way we decided to spend a large part of our lives. It would be a wonderful legacy to pass those stories along.
Wayno

Big Wall climber
Seattle, WA
Apr 14, 2010 - 02:14am PT
You gotta love this Ed guy. Well said.
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