Search
Go

Discussion Topic

Return to Forum List
Post a Reply
Messages 61 - 80 of total 196 in this topic << First  |  < Previous  |  Show All  |  Next >  |  Last >>
hamie

Social climber
Thekoots
Apr 13, 2010 - 01:09am PT
Calling this virtual museum "A People's History of BC Mountaineering" is a bit of a stretch. Someone mentioned upthread that the last 30 years or so are missing. Also missing is any mention of the Interior Mountains. For you coastal [and southern] people that's the Cariboo Mountains, the Monashees, the North and South Selkirks and the Purcells. Just minor league stuff like Roger's Pass, where it all started, the Bugs etc. etc..... They probably got a bigger grant by claiming to cover all of BC.

Bruce Fairley isn't history in the Coast Range, or anywhere else. He did a big route down there last summer [2009], and it should be in the next CAJ.

Tami is partially correct when she says that VOC was primarily a dating club. When I was a member it was both a dating and a downhill skiing club, but definitely not a climbing club. The climbing was done by the aptly named Splinter Soc. Talking of dating, that's also where Tricouni met his wife!! I always say that I should have married a VOC girl as well. Hindsight.

Tricouni takes too long to type, so I'm just going to call him Nails. There is a good picture of Nails on this museum site, which is credited to Barry Hagen. I noticed an uncanny resemblance to a photo which i took of Nails on the third morning of our ascent of the U Wall. I would go as far as to say that it looks EXACTLY the same. But museums never make mistakes.

On a slight tangent, I received my complementary copy of Kevin McLane's new guidebook 'Canadian Rock--Select Climbs of the West' this afternoon. It's terrific. All the very best rock routes in Alberta and BC. Quoting from the back cover:
70 climbing areas
1300 climbs
2300 pitches
800 photos and topos


one different feature about this guide is that it does not list the names of the FA parties, so no ego trips here.
----so much to climb, so little time.

Cheers H.

Tricouni

Mountain climber
Vancouver
Apr 13, 2010 - 01:15am PT
Hamie:
Tricouni takes too long to type, so I'm just going to call him Nails. There is a good picture of Nails on this museum site, which is credited to Barry Hagen. I noticed an uncanny resemblance to a photo which i took of Nails on the third morning of our ascent of the U Wall. I would go as far as to say that it looks EXACTLY the same. But museums never make mistakes.


Oh yes, they do make mistakes! Glad you pointed that out; I'm about to email and get it fixed. (I've pointed out another error to them as well.) I didn't know who took it, but makes sense that it was in U Wall days.

Glad that Fairley is still making history in the Coast Mtns.

Glenn
hamie

Social climber
Thekoots
Apr 13, 2010 - 01:23am PT
Make that Hardass Nails!!
Tricouni

Mountain climber
Vancouver
Apr 13, 2010 - 01:24am PT
Hamie:
Calling this virtual museum "A People's History of BC Mountaineering" is a bit of a stretch. Someone mentioned upthread that the last 30 years or so are missing. Also missing is any mention of the Interior Mountains. For you coastal [and southern] people that's the Cariboo Mountains, the Monashees, the North and South Selkirks and the Purcells. Just minor league stuff like Roger's Pass, where it all started, the Bugs etc. etc..... They probably got a bigger grant by claiming to cover all of BC.

Several people, including me, have pointed out that it's essentially a Coast Mtns site. There are other institutions (ACC, Archives of Cdn Rockies, AAC) that have extensive archives of Rockies stuff - not sure about the Interior Ranges. The North Van site can't compete with them. But you are probably correct: the $$ they received from the Feds was probably tied to something broader than just SW BC.

But, some years ago, I contacted Archives of Cdn Rockies about donating some very early Coast Mtns and Omineca Mtns stuff - they were supremely uninterested. So those photos are at UBC now.

There's lots of room for different approaches to a "History of Climbing in BC." The North Van site is just a start, I hope.

Glenn
Tami

Social climber
Canada
Apr 13, 2010 - 01:50am PT
David as a condition of steal.......erm.........taking .......our water can they please take Gordo The DUI ?


neebee

Social climber
calif/texas
Apr 13, 2010 - 01:58am PT
hey there mighty hiker, say, thanks for the interesting post...

wow, tami is here... say, there, and hey there, tami...

happy to see you,
god bless your day, night, or whatever, as to whatever time
it is now... (it is tue, 1:51 am here) ...

:)
Mighty Hiker

climber
Vancouver, B.C.
Apr 13, 2010 - 01:59am PT
At least the Virtual Museum exhibit is called A People's History of B.C. Mountaineering, rather than The History of... It suggests that it isn't claiming to be anything more than it is.

Historiography is a fascinating subject, to me anyway.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historiography
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Annales_School
Jim Brennan

Trad climber
Vancouver Canada
Apr 13, 2010 - 02:09am PT
Maybe all of us from the axe grinders to the irrelevant should meet up for a beer, or some few!

Hamish and Glenn, Ghost and the Tami, BmacD,Pate and Perry, so slam me. The fun is what matters with Bricks and Foodeater, with Andy and Anders the cold's no defeater.

So offer up peaks and the tries full of slander, the truth is for wankers so what does it matter. The goods we've experienced without an appearance and friendship is first so don't pray for the worst.
bmacd

Trad climber
Beautiful, BC
Apr 13, 2010 - 02:14am PT
one different feature about this guide is that it does not list the names of the FA parties, so no ego trips here.

Another full on guidebook botch. If it was truly an egoless guidebook the authors name should be absent as well. Kevin what are you thinking ???

Dismiss the people who had the wherewithal to put the route up by excluding them from the guidebook is a feature ? I think not. It is pure disrespect.

Approach Devils Thumb from Brandywine by snowmobile in winter. Possibly do it in a day with experienced riders / Winter Alpinists. I have a Skidoo 800 ready to rock and roll ... except I havent climbed in 10 years. Been a few years since I was out past Powder Mtn but heres a picture taken from Powder Dome summit or nearby.

Cayley with Pyroclastic in behind it ...
Cayley with Pyroclastic in behind it ...
Credit: bmacd
Tricouni

Mountain climber
Vancouver
Apr 13, 2010 - 02:31am PT
Bmacd:
Approach Devils Thumb from Brandywine by snowmobile in winter. Possibly do it in a day with experienced riders / Winter Alpinists. I have a Skidoo 800 ready to rock and roll ... except I havent climbed in 10 years. Been a few years since I was out past Powder Mtn but heres a picture.

The photo looks like Cayley (north ridge head-on) with Pyroclastic Peak behind. Vulcan's thumb not visible - is hidden by Pyroclastic. (Those wilth a smattering of geology will recognize that, if a peak is named Pyroclastic, it's not going to be clean granite....)
hamie

Social climber
Thekoots
Apr 13, 2010 - 02:40am PT
oops, my bad. the comment about no names, so no ego trips is mine. it wasn't on the cover, although the post does read as if kevin had said it. sorry all. sloppy reporting....
Tami

Social climber
Canada
Apr 13, 2010 - 02:42am PT
Oh boy BruceM yer gonna open a whole NEW can o' worms by mentionin' the snomo word :-D .


I'm gonna duck 'n run now ........





Oh, and Jim I'm only gonna attend if you actually get up on the table and SLAM that post :-D . Hey , I didit here in the privacy of my own home. Hee heee heeeee.........

bmacd

Trad climber
Beautiful, BC
Apr 13, 2010 - 02:54am PT
Oh Vulcans Thumb is behind Pyrocastic, okay my mistake. Well I have the approach dialed in, in fact seems I overshot Devils thumb that trip. Definitely a full day trip from Brandywine maybe more to climb it. Of course I am hardly up for a chostastic Winter FA, ....

Uhmm is there a problem with snowmobiles ? I have been out of the loop for a while .... Does trying to save Bute Inlet give me carbon credits for my sled ? Except we used a helicopter and a Cessna at Bute ... oh boy I can't seem to do much right.

Cayley viewd from the North
Cayley viewd from the North
Credit: bmacd
bmacd

Trad climber
Beautiful, BC
Apr 13, 2010 - 03:03am PT
Ah okay found my shot of Vulcans Thumb, I believe ...
Vulcans Thumb, Pyroclastic and Cayley all behind hill in foreground
Vulcans Thumb, Pyroclastic and Cayley all behind hill in foreground
Credit: bmacd
click photo to enlarge
Chief

climber
Apr 13, 2010 - 10:15am PT

Another full on guidebook botch. If it was truly an egoless guidebook the authors name should be absent as well. Kevin what are you thinking ???
Dismiss the people who had the wherewithal to put the route up by excluding them from the guidebook is a feature ? I think not. It is pure disrespect.

Bruce, thank you for having the balls to call Kevin on his bullsh#t, revisionist, egregiously inaccurate and narrow interpretation of other peoples efforts.

His description of Cruel Shoes and Northern Lights relegate my involvement to that of virtual "also ran" rather than the guy that did the first ascent.
I also call bullshit on his claim that Loeks and Putnam got to the left side free from Merci Me before I did.

Sorry to go off on a tangent here folks but Bruce hit a long standing sore spot.
Kevin has chosen to arbitrarily misrepresent or qualify many peoples accomplishments in his guidebooks and I'm sick of it and speaking out.

Perry Beckham
bmacd

Trad climber
Beautiful, BC
Apr 13, 2010 - 11:56am PT
Look at how much the Americans value their history of climbs and climbers who put them up. Parts of this forum are a passionate testament to those pioneers. Imagine what Steve Grossman or Clint Cummins would have to say about a yosemite guidebook with no mention of who the first ascentionists are. Hartouni has everyone in a searchable database.

Anders if you want a book project forget climbing in the 70's at Squamish and consider chronicling the people who explored the coast range right up to whats going on now out there. You will have a much broader target audience.

Bruce Kay what do you think the relief is on the east face of Vulcans thumb ? The final tower looks awful, our own version of the rockies except probably far far worse. Some sledder should go out there and shoot a few HD images of the east face and drop them off at the climbing shop in Squish to rile up the new blood.

Lake Lovely Water was where I hooked up with a very large breasted Exotic french Canadian girl .... something in the water ? Definitely so - Lake Firewater ....

Perry thanks for the morning wake-up call ! Guidebooks eventually form part of the historical record, their authors perhaps don't always realize their responsibilities at the time.

Garabaldi from the north, 1978 when I was a glaciological field techni...
Garabaldi from the north, 1978 when I was a glaciological field technician working out of Sentinel Bay, Garabaldi Lake.
Credit: bmacd
click for larger image

We climbed Garabaldi from Sentinel Bay once, that was a slog ...

klk

Trad climber
cali
Apr 13, 2010 - 12:21pm PT
Look at how much the Americans value their history of climbs and climbers who put them up.

This is correct, if by "Americans" you mean roughly three dozen fat, aging, cranky alcoholics most of whom would never even consider throwing down retail for a new paperback edition of practically anything.
bmacd

Trad climber
Beautiful, BC
Apr 13, 2010 - 02:37pm PT
Guide books are part of the historical record so discussing this here is not OT or Taboo.
Ghost

climber
A long way from where I started
Apr 13, 2010 - 03:01pm PT
Look at how much the Americans value their history of climbs and climbers who put them up.

We used to value our history in Canada, too. Maybe even moreso than the Americans. The trend toward ignoring history, or pretending it isn't relevant, is sad.

Maybe on a sport crag where all that's involved is putting up one more line of bolts among dozens, the name of the bolter isn't all that important. Or maybe it is, even then.

But any of us who has spent the hundred hours per pitch required to prepare a route at Squamish, or expended the sweat and blood required to get onto something new in the Coast Range, has got to be insulted by the depersonalization of our efforts.

No guidebook author is ever going to do the job perfectly. But most try. I hope the idea of leaving out the history that goes with our names dies quickly.

D
Mighty Hiker

climber
Vancouver, B.C.
Apr 13, 2010 - 08:49pm PT
We seem to have several tangents going at once, and I can only pop by occasionally.

I once heard, second or third hand, that the rift in the BCMC in the 1920s had in part to do with Saturday night activities at the cabin on Grouse offending some of the more prim and proper members. I wonder if that, plus perhaps the usual personality clashes, precipitated the schism? It may also be that Tom Fyles was thought by a few to be overbearing - that is, too overbearing for a 'mere' postie, in those still class-ridden times. Certainly the local ACC was long seen as the establishment organization, and the BCMC a more egalitarian group. Though such generalizations have less meaning than they used to.

A history of the first 40 - 50 years of climbing at Squamish will be enough for me, I think. Just thinking and planning and literature review, the Slab Alley project, and discussion, has taken most of a year. Hopefully someone like hard-as-nails Tricouni will take up a Coast Range history, or history of mountaineering in BC - which does include some of the Rubbly/Rocky Mountains.

I once posed the question to Oploplanax as to whether there was any unnamed or unclimbed summit visible from within the boundaries of greater Vancouver. That is, a peak showing a 50 m/100 ft contour on a map. An intriguing question. (Oploplanax is a fancy word for devil's club, one of our local ornamental shrubs.)

The Vulcan's Thumb is visible from the highway north of Squamish, and perhaps we should auction off the 'right' to its first ascent to some sucker. It might be a good fundraiser for the Climbers' Access Society.

I'll be at the BCMC social tonight, drinking my tea and eating my cookie, enduring the usual maundering. They have a valid point - snowmobiles, and motorized activities generally, are inappropriate in parks and wilderness. Mountaineering and climbing are about both means and ends. As we all know, if any means of getting to the top is acceptable, there isn't much merit in the ascent. In addition to their environmental impacts, "sledheads" seem to readily confuse means and ends.

As for history... Well, we all have our own perspective on it. Climbers being a somewhat proud, territorial, and critical bunch both helps and hinders. Also, writing climbing history is not a money-making activity, unless it's dumbed down to the tourist level, with lots of pretty photos. It is feasible to make money writing guidebooks, although with changing technology perhaps not for much longer. (Advertisements in guidebooks strike me as tacky, but maybe are now necessary.) We are fortunate at Squamish to have not one but two writers and publishers of climbing guidebooks for the area. They both produce what are overall very useful publications, and do a good job. One shows some bias, in terms of who did what when. It's annoying, in that it could easily be corrected. As Ghost observes, for a generic sport-climbing area, it may not matter much. When there is some history, it's important to try to get it right, in guidebooks and all the more so in histories.

I cringe to think of errors I've made in past writing about climbing, e.g. in the 1980 guidebook. Perhaps I was young enough then that it can be forgiven.

I haven't seen the new select guide that Hamish refers to, but am looking forward to it.
Messages 61 - 80 of total 196 in this topic << First  |  < Previous  |  Show All  |  Next >  |  Last >>
Return to Forum List
Post a Reply
 
Our Guidebooks
Check 'em out!
SuperTopo Guidebooks


Try a free sample topo!

 
SuperTopo on the Web

Review Categories
Recent Trip Report and Articles
Recent Route Beta
Recent Gear Reviews