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Ghost

climber
A long way from where I started
Apr 12, 2010 - 01:37am PT
I went with Bricks, Bob milward and pete shackleton

Wow. If you were to try to come up with three guys about whom stories could be told until the End of Days, those three would have to be at the top of the list.

I can't even begin to remember how many times Pete Shack said "Oh, I don't know. I'm really out of shape right now. No way I can climb/run/ride worth a sh#t. I don't know if I should even go out. You'll have to wait for me all day..." And then he'd just smoke me on whatever the day's adventure was. Master sandbagger.
Tricouni

Mountain climber
Vancouver
Apr 12, 2010 - 01:50am PT
Ghost:
I haven't visited the virtual museum, but any attempt at telling the story of BC mountaineering by looking through the lens of club membership seems kind of silly.

BCMC? ACC? Sure, there was plenty of climbing done on club trips, but there was, and is, just as much done by climbers. Not club members, just climbers.


The virtual museum thing (in which I had no hand, didn't know about it until a week ago) is simply one window on things. It comes, in part, out of the BCMC centennial video and related research, and partly out of the fact that the museum and the BCMC both have extensive archives of photos, diaries, etc. by early BMCM members. I hope they can expand the site to include the ACC, the BCMC, the RRC, the VOC, the FSSSCC, and the unaffiliated (to use an AAC term). It's a start; we can either mock it or suggest how to improve it.

But most climbing wasn't done on club trips, not then, not now. As I said above, some people were in one club, some in another, some in both, and some in no club. Some of the best climbers didn't need the clubs: they met like-minded friends outside the clubs. Many people meet friends, learn some basic skills, and quickly outgrow the clubs.

But others (Culbert, me, Fyles, Carter, Beckey, Clarke many others) found our climbing partners through the assorted clubs. We learned basic skills and mostly moved on. Many quit the clubs; others kept up memberships but didn't take much of an active role. We may have moved on, but loyalty to the clubs can remain: the BCMC certainly changed my life, and I met my wife through the VOC. I don't think I've been on a club trip in 40 years, but I still sign my name in summit records "Glenn Woodsworth, BCMC."


Tami

Social climber
Canada
Apr 12, 2010 - 02:48am PT
I liked that John Clarke signed summit registers with his MEC number. Which was, if I recall correctly, in the 'twenties c'os - as he said - he had to get drunk before parting with the fin to become a member ....on that nite the party happened to get it all started.

Not that I"m cheerleadin' fer MEC.


Glenn you do realize that our "ghost" is the nefarious Davie Harris, and he probably signs the summit registers "Glenn Woodsworth , BCMC " :-D just to mess with you. hahahahhaaaa.....

Indeed the pic on the previous page does look like Mr. Shannan.......but , sans hearse.

Lotso' fodder growin' on this thread. Too bad there aren't more of the bad lot previously mentioned who would post to ST. It would be stories a go go and much more interesting then the YER A DOUCHEBAG threads.

I always wonder if those guys KNOW each other or iszit just pissin' in the wind ?

Oh, and I TREEPLANTED with the holey Mike D before he became an Everesteer and whatnot :-D .

Ghost

climber
A long way from where I started
Apr 12, 2010 - 10:04am PT
I hope they can expand the site to include the ACC, the BCMC, the RRC, the VOC, the FSSSCC

And the Lobsters. Can't really talk about mountaineering in BC without The Red Lobsters Mountaineering Club.
Bruce Kay

Gym climber
BC
Apr 12, 2010 - 10:50am PT
I always thought that whem pete shack got all excited and his eyes started to bulge out and he got that maniacal grin on his face - he looked exactly like Marty Feldman.

anyone know if shack and joyce made it home from the south seas yet?

and did someone say Bricks passed away or something about a hearse?

edit: oh yeah.. his hearse!
Chief

climber
Apr 12, 2010 - 11:14am PT
I've seldom been inspired or impressed by the "Beard Stroking, Pontificating Clubbers".
(I had an encounter with one of their senior ilk at the Lake Lovelywater hut a few years ago that left me disgusted to this day)

Hugh Burton's account of their ascent of the Cassin (Hugh apparently wore jeans over his capilene) or being chased off the North Howser by a wild lightning storm after climbing Warrior are much more inspiring examples of BC Mountaineering.

Perry
Bruce Kay

Gym climber
BC
Apr 12, 2010 - 11:21am PT
the problem with clubs is that they involve leaders

kind of like government
Bruce Kay

Gym climber
BC
Apr 12, 2010 - 11:59am PT
here's one for the books...

did you guys know that Bob Milward did the first winter girdle traverse of Ben Nevis?

i sh#t you not
bmacd

Trad climber
Beautiful, BC
Apr 12, 2010 - 12:07pm PT
I took the BCMC crevasse rescue and glacier travel course in the 70's. I think clubs perform a great service helping people get started and connect with like minded others. For those commenting above whom are "born to climb" (Homo Alipnus) clubs serve little purpose.

50 years ago the club thing would have been a much different atmosphere than today I think. Certainly the historical aspect of club archives are valuable to all.

I think this "Climbing to the clouds" should focus on the history of climbing on the coast. The rockies is already well documented. The coast historical fragments are still scattered in the attics of individuals, be they club members or not.

 http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=phyllis+munday&aq=f

A major project to collate it all.
Ghost

climber
A long way from where I started
Apr 12, 2010 - 12:09pm PT
I've seldom been inspired or impressed by the "Beard Stroking, Pontificating Clubbers". (I had an encounter with one of their senior ilk at the Lake Lovelywater hut a few years ago that left me disgusted to this day)

Which brings up another interesting point. While it's true that in the very early days climbing clubs had a big impact -- in the sense that club members going on club trips actually did some serious climbing -- I think it's also true that the clubs have sometimes stood in the way of climbing. Or at least, because of their stodgy atmosphere and sometimes restrictive approach, driven away many climbers. Clubs have rules, a lot of climbers hate the idea of rules being applied to climbing.
Tricouni

Mountain climber
Vancouver
Apr 12, 2010 - 12:12pm PT
Chief wrote:
I've seldom been inspired or impressed by the "Beard Stroking, Pontificating Clubbers".
(I had an encounter with one of their senior ilk at the Lake Lovelywater hut a few years ago that left me disgusted to this day)

I've met plenty of that type, too, with similarly disgusting results. Oddly enough, one of the worst was at the Lake Lovelywater hut - something in the water there? And one at the Gunks.
Pate

Trad climber
Apr 12, 2010 - 12:25pm PT
Okay so this is the second post in this most legitimate of threads & I won't go all L or Pate on you

you can aspire to greatness though Tami- everyone can dream. few reach the prowess of L and I.

I was once told by Rudy Beglinger about the number of unclimbed summits in BC, both the Coastal Range and interior; he said over 90% of the peaks were unclimbed, and named with only numbers. Is that true?
Reilly

Mountain climber
Monrovia, CA
Apr 12, 2010 - 12:51pm PT
"Beard Stroking, Pontificating Clubbers"

Thank heavens we've none of those here!
Chief

climber
Apr 12, 2010 - 01:04pm PT
My comments about the clubs was about some people in some local clubs and not mountaineering clubs in general.

One of my first trip into the mountains was with Peter Croft and a couple people on an Island Mountain Ramblers outing. It changed my and now that I think about it, Tom DeGroot had a beard and he did stroke it a lot and did pontificate.
Dave Robert's exploits with the Harvard Mountaineers stand out as early inspirations for me.
Locally, the Auger/Tate Woodsworth effort on U Wall stands out as a club effort that set the highest big wall standards of the day.

That puke at Lovelywater just happens to represent an arrogant "upper crust" mentality that stimulates my hurl reflex.

Respectfully,

PB

ps. Rudy's frikkin high!
bmacd

Trad climber
Beautiful, BC
Apr 12, 2010 - 01:16pm PT
Pate 90% is a ridiculous figure. The peaks are rated by prominence on this site

The website is not a simple wiki. It is a geographic information system, organized by lat-long. This means searches are not based on placenames, they are based on geographic proximity. This is important, because hundreds of the articles involve mountains that are unnamed

http://www.bivouac.com/default.asp
Tricouni

Mountain climber
Vancouver
Apr 12, 2010 - 01:32pm PT
I was once told by Rudy Beglinger about the number of unclimbed summits in BC, both the Coastal Range and interior; he said over 90% of the peaks were unclimbed, and named with only numbers. Is that true?

Depends what you mean by a peak. There are still plenty of small summits that have never been climbed, including many with names. 90% is far too high. Plenty of small, hard pinnacles. Even a few relatively high-prominence (for the region), hard peaks remain, but you have to know where they are!

Most summits in the Coast Mtns don't have names, so people just talk about "Peak 9535" when they talk about them at all. The owners of Bivouac.com have taken to wandering around (electronically) with a big salt-and-pepper shaker full of useless names, sprinkling liberally. Don't get me started....
MH2

climber
Apr 12, 2010 - 01:58pm PT

I was once a member of a club that now belongs in a museum.



Tami

Social climber
Canada
Apr 12, 2010 - 02:07pm PT
I don't think it's fair to say "the clubs" but there were - and prolly still are - some real asshats in the clubs - and otherwise - who 'looked down' on rock climber-types, considering them some kind of lifeform distinct from homo mountaineerus.

Of course Steve & Hugh's ascent of the Cassin was rad & I totally agree Burton prolly wore jeans but not over capilene - over some shitty wool longjohns he otherwise wore on cold days in town. :-D

The "clubs" did some hard mountaineering back when Tom Fyles was leading trips but that wasn't fifty years ago, it was eighty years ago. By the war, the clubs were serving to introduce folks to the hills and the VOC , in particular was a dating club as much as it was a climbing club - which makes sense if you think of the ol biological urge. My parents met at the VOC in the fall of 1945.

I imagine the last 'hard trip' any club led was when Hugh put onto the ACC Vancouver Section list that he'd lead Uncle Ben's if anybody wanted to accompany him. I think that was in '76.

Sure there are people affiliated with the clubs who were doing hard trips but I'd say they were NOT the norm.

And Pete Shack TOTALLY looks like Marty Feldman when he gets going.

Hilarious about Milward doing that FWA on the Ben. He STILL looks like Christopher Robin. HAHAHAHA..... never ever in the history of mountaineering has there been a MORE UNLIKELY looking 'hard guy'.


edit .... ^^^^^ HAHAHAHAAHAAAAA HAHAAA
Mighty Hiker

climber
Vancouver, B.C.
Apr 12, 2010 - 02:08pm PT
I recently read the first volume of Royal Robbins' autobiography, To Be Brave. It's well written and interesting, mostly about his youth, framed by his solo ascent of the Leaning Tower in 1963. One interesting aspect is his introduction to mountaineering and climbing, through the boy scouts and then the Sierra Club. He has a lot of praise for the organizations and their leaders. How many of us here got started through some similar program - scouts, guides, outward bound, local clubs, etc? Even now? Yes, such groups are now usually far from the leading edge, tend to be run by older people who like to reminisce (kind of like SuperTopo), and can be conservative and stodgy. But credit where credit is due, and they've contributed a lot.

Painting clubs with a broad brush doesn't make a lot of sense. Some have somewhat reinvented themselves, too - such as the AAC, in part in response to the success of the Access Fund.

I have no more liking for being organized in my climbing by others than anyone else. But it's part of our modern world, whether it's those who manage the places we like to go to or whatever. Like it or not, climbers have to be organized and represented - that's how democracy works. The Climbers' Access Society of BC was created in 1995 for that role, to ensure there was effective representation on key issues. Being anti-organization and anti-authority as kneejerk thing is senseless, as society becomes increasingly interdependent.

the Auger/Tate Woodsworth effort on U Wall stands out as a UBC club effort
As in Tim Auger, Dan Tate, Glenn Woodsworth and Hamish Mutch of the Varsity Outdoor Club, in 1966. A stout effort. Two of the four post here. Maybe someday one of them will post stories about the Cacodemon Climbing Club.
bmacd

Trad climber
Beautiful, BC
Apr 12, 2010 - 02:36pm PT
Tricouni can you recommend an alternate compendium of info for BC peaks other than Bivoac.com. Paper or electronic is fine, I'm just curious and would like to do some digging around on the coast range.

Thanks
Bruce
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