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Tricouni

Mountain climber
Vancouver
Apr 11, 2010 - 03:04pm PT
Tami wrote:
Hey Anders, havin' sniffed thru the thing I find it to be most excellent but oddly incomplete. FABULOUS to see the artwork of Shives !!

I totally agree; I like his work a great deal (but I'm pretty biased).

[quoteIt's more like RANDOM history of BC mountaineering. I think they missed out big stories like Slesse ( the first ascent, FWA, the airplane crash, NE Buttress, et'c ) to name one.

For sure. I hope they continue to build on it and deal with the last 30 years. Baldwin? Clarke? Kasian? Serl? Fairley? Croft? Foweraker? to name just a random few. The site's got great potential, but it's clear the focus will always be on the coast, which is fine with me. Another group will have to do the Interior Ranges and (shudder) the Rockies.

- Glenn (a Coast Mountains brat - always was, always will be)


bmacd

Trad climber
Beautiful, BC
Apr 11, 2010 - 03:20pm PT
So Foweraker is history ? Such promise now gone to waste ...
Tricouni

Mountain climber
Vancouver
Apr 11, 2010 - 03:25pm PT
Naw, Foweraker, Serl, Baldwin aren't history yet. Are they? I guess Fairley isn't history, either, but he seems to be history in the Coast Mountains. (That's what living in Golden does to you....)

When does one become a museum-piece?
mazamarick

Trad climber
WA
Apr 11, 2010 - 04:26pm PT
That must make Sinclair and Smaill history, right?
bmacd

Trad climber
Beautiful, BC
Apr 11, 2010 - 04:31pm PT
Relic hominids all of them, science should be done on their DNA.

More evidence that multiple classes of ancient branches of the hominid tree are still walking amongst us. Rarely observed and often misidentified yet the legends persist.

Homo Aplinus, more study and documentation of their existence is needed to pay tribute to the species.
Chief

climber
Apr 11, 2010 - 06:49pm PT
Relic Hominid?


Thanks Bruce, that explains everything. At last, I've found my tribe.
Reilly

Mountain climber
Monrovia, CA
Apr 11, 2010 - 08:15pm PT
Funny how these 'northern neighbors' threads don't seem to turn
into pissing matches even when someone gets accused of belonging
to a dead-end branch on the 'hominid' tree. Yous guys really are
different! :-D
Tami

Social climber
Canada
Apr 11, 2010 - 09:17pm PT
Yer a museum piece ........when ya post as "tricouni" :-D Hahahaha........who here actually KNOWS what tricounies are, eh ? ( Okay, on THIS forum there are LOTS of folks who wore boots w/ tricounis ) hahahaha again.

Glenn A ZILLION thanks for the post about the cabin & the history. Frankly I think that personal stuff is more important then the dates and ascents because it highlights the personalities and gut-reasons for the history to have happened.

One very wonderful thing about this type of forum is that it provides a platform for a people's history - such that it is, at times, unfettered, unfiltered, totally adulterated opinions. But that too is the history & it's the authors of the history books who tend to get to decide. That, and their publishers.

I'm always annoyed by history books that arbitrarily cut off at some date in the past. Living history can be written down........and, if some of it becomes more or less relevant in the future then so be it. But to just say that because the person is still alive ergo they aren't yet a museum piece is silly.

The Croft/Foodeater/SurlyDon traverse of the Wadd & range in '85 was spectacular history & had been predicated on the fast & light ascents those guys ( croft in particular ) had been doing in the Bugs & lower Coast Range in previous years.

By the same token the huge traverses that Clarke/Baldwin were doing in those years ( or later ? ) were also being challenged by Kobus B & Emily , and the kids who did the Fraser River to Alaska trip on skis ( I am SO SORRY but I have forgotten who this was - Vance Culbert, et'c ? Guy Edwards? The Rowat sisters were in on some of that. ) THAT is BIG history.

I"m sure not sayin' I know more then what these folks know but it would be great to see a more complete 'history'. A quick perusal of Chic Scott's Pushing The Limits would be a killer place to start.



Jim Brennan

Trad climber
Vancouver Canada
Apr 11, 2010 - 11:10pm PT
Some coastal types balance business acumen with great climbing skills.

Credit: Jim Brennan
Tami

Social climber
Canada
Apr 11, 2010 - 11:11pm PT
^^^^ Are those his LEGS or is he bi-penised and WALKING on them ?








The mind boggles.










bmacd

Trad climber
Beautiful, BC
Apr 11, 2010 - 11:49pm PT
CougarLife.com = 1000 Tami's

Anders, signup now ....
Jim Brennan

Trad climber
Vancouver Canada
Apr 12, 2010 - 12:43am PT
He's Hominid Representicus. A Renaissance dude around these parts.
Ghost

climber
A long way from where I started
Apr 12, 2010 - 12:57am PT
That picture looks kinda like Bricks.

I haven't visited the virtual museum, but any attempt at telling the story of BC mountaineering by looking through the lens of club membership seems kind of silly.

BCMC? ACC? Sure, there was plenty of climbing done on club trips, but there was, and is, just as much done by climbers. Not club members, just climbers.

And about the cabin thing, Tami's probably just pissed because Rat Hall doesn't feature prominently in museum.

D
Mighty Hiker

climber
Vancouver, B.C.
Apr 12, 2010 - 01:12am PT
David, the virtual museum 'exhibit' primarily relates to the period from the late 19th century, through the 1960s and 1970s. So is somewhat oriented toward what the BCMC and ACC and their members were doing, given that they had a finger in most of what was being done during that period. Yes, there's more to the story than that, e.g. in the 1960s the energy of the baby boomers in the VOC, and the appearance of independent climbers. (Jim Baldwin may have been one of the first.) But what's there is an interesting initiative, even if a bit too club-oriented, and can be added to.

Glad to see there's some interest in this subject - I hoped there would be. It's probably impossible to satisfy anyone let alone everyone with any museum display, let alone a new-fangled virtual display, but it illustrates the sort of thing that's possible. You can't fit everything in, of course, and historiography eventually rears its head.

Just back from a full day working on a project at Squamish. Cleaning an old route on the Apron, called Slab Alley. The first route on our Apron, done in 1961 by Jim Baldwin and Tony Cousins. The current phase is to physically clean up the route, restore the existing/accepted bolts (ten total), and consider options. The idea being to recreate a moderate and reasonably manageable independent route on the Apron. The 1961 route, done in mountain boots, involved some fierce slab climbing for the time.

There's some pretty cool virtual history on the YCA site - www.yosemiteclimbing.org
Ghost

climber
A long way from where I started
Apr 12, 2010 - 01:37am PT
I went with Bricks, Bob milward and pete shackleton

Wow. If you were to try to come up with three guys about whom stories could be told until the End of Days, those three would have to be at the top of the list.

I can't even begin to remember how many times Pete Shack said "Oh, I don't know. I'm really out of shape right now. No way I can climb/run/ride worth a sh#t. I don't know if I should even go out. You'll have to wait for me all day..." And then he'd just smoke me on whatever the day's adventure was. Master sandbagger.
Tricouni

Mountain climber
Vancouver
Apr 12, 2010 - 01:50am PT
Ghost:
I haven't visited the virtual museum, but any attempt at telling the story of BC mountaineering by looking through the lens of club membership seems kind of silly.

BCMC? ACC? Sure, there was plenty of climbing done on club trips, but there was, and is, just as much done by climbers. Not club members, just climbers.


The virtual museum thing (in which I had no hand, didn't know about it until a week ago) is simply one window on things. It comes, in part, out of the BCMC centennial video and related research, and partly out of the fact that the museum and the BCMC both have extensive archives of photos, diaries, etc. by early BMCM members. I hope they can expand the site to include the ACC, the BCMC, the RRC, the VOC, the FSSSCC, and the unaffiliated (to use an AAC term). It's a start; we can either mock it or suggest how to improve it.

But most climbing wasn't done on club trips, not then, not now. As I said above, some people were in one club, some in another, some in both, and some in no club. Some of the best climbers didn't need the clubs: they met like-minded friends outside the clubs. Many people meet friends, learn some basic skills, and quickly outgrow the clubs.

But others (Culbert, me, Fyles, Carter, Beckey, Clarke many others) found our climbing partners through the assorted clubs. We learned basic skills and mostly moved on. Many quit the clubs; others kept up memberships but didn't take much of an active role. We may have moved on, but loyalty to the clubs can remain: the BCMC certainly changed my life, and I met my wife through the VOC. I don't think I've been on a club trip in 40 years, but I still sign my name in summit records "Glenn Woodsworth, BCMC."


Ghost

climber
A long way from where I started
Apr 12, 2010 - 10:04am PT
I hope they can expand the site to include the ACC, the BCMC, the RRC, the VOC, the FSSSCC

And the Lobsters. Can't really talk about mountaineering in BC without The Red Lobsters Mountaineering Club.
Chief

climber
Apr 12, 2010 - 11:14am PT
I've seldom been inspired or impressed by the "Beard Stroking, Pontificating Clubbers".
(I had an encounter with one of their senior ilk at the Lake Lovelywater hut a few years ago that left me disgusted to this day)

Hugh Burton's account of their ascent of the Cassin (Hugh apparently wore jeans over his capilene) or being chased off the North Howser by a wild lightning storm after climbing Warrior are much more inspiring examples of BC Mountaineering.

Perry
bmacd

Trad climber
Beautiful, BC
Apr 12, 2010 - 12:07pm PT
I took the BCMC crevasse rescue and glacier travel course in the 70's. I think clubs perform a great service helping people get started and connect with like minded others. For those commenting above whom are "born to climb" (Homo Alipnus) clubs serve little purpose.

50 years ago the club thing would have been a much different atmosphere than today I think. Certainly the historical aspect of club archives are valuable to all.

I think this "Climbing to the clouds" should focus on the history of climbing on the coast. The rockies is already well documented. The coast historical fragments are still scattered in the attics of individuals, be they club members or not.

 http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=phyllis+munday&aq=f

A major project to collate it all.
Ghost

climber
A long way from where I started
Apr 12, 2010 - 12:09pm PT
I've seldom been inspired or impressed by the "Beard Stroking, Pontificating Clubbers". (I had an encounter with one of their senior ilk at the Lake Lovelywater hut a few years ago that left me disgusted to this day)

Which brings up another interesting point. While it's true that in the very early days climbing clubs had a big impact -- in the sense that club members going on club trips actually did some serious climbing -- I think it's also true that the clubs have sometimes stood in the way of climbing. Or at least, because of their stodgy atmosphere and sometimes restrictive approach, driven away many climbers. Clubs have rules, a lot of climbers hate the idea of rules being applied to climbing.
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