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BLUEBLOCR
Social climber
joshua tree
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Aug 14, 2014 - 12:22am PT
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That's Great Ken , Thanks
i was mostly wondering how deep into our boldly functioning does depression go. All the way to DNA, or is it in the cells?
Can it be handed down from our parents, is what i'm really asking?
Locker's link was very informative on the mechanics, but i didn't see anything about Genetics.
Nice Neebee!
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Aug 14, 2014 - 10:38am PT
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Can it be handed down from our parents, is what i'm really asking?
It very commonly runs in families which strongly suggests that it can be genetic. However, clearly not always.
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Big Mike
Trad climber
BC
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Aug 15, 2014 - 04:35pm PT
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Bump because this thread deserves to be seen.
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skitch
climber
East of Heaven
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Sep 17, 2014 - 04:42pm PT
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So my wife convinced me to see a therapist, the therapist thinks that I need to try drugs, recommended Welbutrin.
I've never tried antidepressants, but my dad started taking celexa a few years ago and says that it helped him. My cousin tried taking something a few years back, said it made him even more suicidal.
Anyone tried welbutrin? the side effects don't sound horrible. . .
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Gary
Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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Sep 17, 2014 - 04:56pm PT
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I think of Jeff Batten often as well. I never called him friend, though I should have.
I didn't see it coming. I didn't understand.
There was nothing I could have done, likely. Not that kind of relationship. He was a troll after all and like all trolls when he tried to be serious, when he tried to drop the veil and be himself?
He was rejected. Because of his own past.
Dingus, it still bothers me, too. I was lucky enough to climb with Jeff on a couple of occasions. He didn't seem depressed, he was happy-go-lucky. We talked about usenet agents and UCLA coeds.
When he started posting about depression, I figured it was just another troll, same as you. Even saw him at Stony Point about that time. We just exchanged some pleasantries that day, but he was smiling and cruising around to boulders.
I even thought the suicide was a troll, until I asked a fellow I know who taught at CSUN.
Not sure what any of us could have done, but I wished I'd reached out to him a bit more.
He was a good man to rope up with.
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survival
Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
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Sep 17, 2014 - 05:03pm PT
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Tough thread.
I have two really good friends who struggle with the blackness at all times.
What should I suggest?? Sh#t,....
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John M
climber
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Sep 17, 2014 - 05:32pm PT
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Anyone tried welbutrin? the side effects don't sound horrible. . .
I have.. I'm probably not the best person to ask as I have difficulties taking anti depressants.
(understatement)
My background
lifetime dealing with depression
tried anti depressants for over 8 years. Tried over 30 different anti depressants. only a couple helped me for a short period of time. Most gave me debilitating side effects.
On the other hand, it appears many people have success with them. JohnE on this forum has told his success story a number of times here.
My point is that everyone is different and reacts differently to these kinds of meds. If I were you and I didn't have a history of difficulties taking prescription meds, then I would probably try it, though I would want a good doc overseeing things. Not just a family doc seeing you every 6 weeks. But someone seeing you at least once a week until you determine if its going to work for you. If you have decent medical insurance, then I would see a psychiatrist, though let me warn you, they can be some of the weirdest people on the planet. Many of them have their own social/psychosis. But then to study in depth the interplay of meds on the brain and the mind, you have to be something of a nerd.
I hope that helps.
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the albatross
Gym climber
Flagstaff
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Sep 17, 2014 - 08:35pm PT
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Tough thread.
I have two really good friends who struggle with the blackness at all times.
What should I suggest?? Sh#t,....
Be a friend.
Listen.
Tell your friends that you love them. That them many people love them.
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survival
Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
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Sep 17, 2014 - 08:39pm PT
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Thanks man, that's what I shoot for.
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the albatross
Gym climber
Flagstaff
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Sep 17, 2014 - 08:51pm PT
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Sometimes the darkness is too strong for some people.
That's a tough thing for most to accept.
I always try to remember that we are all going to die some day. Every single one of us. Dead.
That is why we should enjoy life as long as we are able.
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Ghost
climber
A long way from where I started
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Sep 17, 2014 - 08:59pm PT
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I have two really good friends who struggle with the blackness at all times. What should I suggest?? Sh#t,....
There is no answer to that question Bruce. Or maybe there are as many answers as there are depressed friends. What helps one might make things worse for another.
Albertross pretty much summed it up -- make sure they know you love them.
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Big Mike
Trad climber
BC
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Sep 17, 2014 - 09:46pm PT
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Sandra takes Welbutrin. It seems to help her, although since she's been on it so long, her psyc recently perscribed another drug as a booster. Trick seems to be, see how you do on it and decide for yourself.
I've managed to stay away from anti-depressants so far..
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BLUEBLOCR
Social climber
joshua tree
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Sep 17, 2014 - 11:12pm PT
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Thanks Mooseman!
Depression or substance abuse would change that protein production. Some of those changes can be permanent when the DNA gets effected.
Back then i was trying to imagine how we pass down "traits" to our offspring. The obvious being in the body's structure, the things we can see. My daughter looks just like her mom.(but she's smart like me)! Those are the obvious physical traits. Lately i've been hearing addictions like, alcohol, drug, etc. can be "passed down"? And even depression. Which lead me to wonder if they are genetically(in the "meat) carried along, or are they passed down by a social environment when growing up?
Then try and diagnose to find a preventative..
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skitch
climber
East of Heaven
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Sep 18, 2014 - 09:51am PT
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My biggest issues, and I'm just guessing that they are depression related since my dad seemed to be the same way before taking meds, are a constant feeling of aggravation, super pessimistic, and I get zero joy out of life.
Ever stand in line and have somebody "accidentally" cut in front of you, does that make a small volcano blow up inside of you??? I feel like their is boiling pot of lava in my chest just waiting for the slightest inconvenience to make it explode, all the time.
I cannot, for the life of me, find any good in anything. All I can do is see the negative aspect of everything. I went bouldering with some people I know last night, all I can think is "how can they be so goddamn happy".
I can't keep friends because it's sooo hard, and fake feeling, to be positive. When I talk all that pours out is negative comments about life, myself, etc.
I have been climbing relatively well compared to my past, but whenever I finish a climb all I can think about is the 1 mistake I made on the climb. If I send it "perfectly" all I can think is I should have tried something harder.
I feel like I am just another of a million evolutionary experiments that went wrong.
Hopefully drugs and therapy work, otherwise my wife is stuck with a piece of sh#t that only wants to drag everyone else that comes into contact with me down to my sick little sh#t-filled pit.
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skitch
climber
East of Heaven
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Sep 18, 2014 - 10:13am PT
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I've definitely thought about smoking weed, I've tried in the past and it seemed to make a difference while I was stoned, but as soon as it's gone I'm back to the same pit'o'despair feeling that I normally feel. Can't see getting any work done while I'm stoned, seems to get me lost in my thoughts. . .
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Bruce Morris
Social climber
Belmont, California
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Sep 18, 2014 - 10:13am PT
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Multi-generational trauma is why depression runs in families. I know that medical dogma runs: DNA-RNA-Protein, but it's more like Bruce Lipton insists, DNA plus environment, environment, environment. If you just take anti-depressants without dealing with the underlying psychological and environmental causes behind your depression, it's just going find some other way of expressing itself. I think the psychologists call the phenomenon, symptom substitution.
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John M
climber
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Sep 18, 2014 - 10:49am PT
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Skitch.
There are lots of various possibilities. This is just my understand based on my own life experience. I am not a trained professional.
The possibilities involve our thinking patterns, our genetics, and what habits we developed based on our life experiences, plus a few other things.
A professional can help you sort this out.
Sometimes just our life experiences and our thinking patterns can lead to the inability for our body to make the proper balance of hormones for us to be able to feel okay. Other times genetics plays a role.
A very simplified example of how our life experiences and thinking patterns can sabotage us is..
We have some bad experiences. say we lose our job and we have some health problems. Please remember that this is very simplified. We then start thinking things like.. I will never get better. I will never get a new job. Life is too hard. etc.. That then possibly leads us to not taking proper care of ourselves. Maybe we overindulge in recreational drugs such as booze. Or we don't eat properly, or we don't get regular exercise. All of these things can inhibit ones body from creating the proper balance of hormones. Once that happens, then it becomes more and more difficult to feel okay or even good. The inability to feel good even when we are doing something we normally enjoy, then exasperates the whole situation, which then magnifies the downward cycle.
For some people you can toss in genetics. Perhaps they just normally only produce a low level of certain necessary hormones and once they get into the above cycle, it just snowballs.
Either way… what can help to break these kinds of cycles is therapy to identify what thought process are sabotaging oneself, what tools one could use to break these cycles, and when and how to use them. Books can help you understand this, but a really good therapist can help you cut through the bullshit and identify why you specifically have going on.
Toss on top of that the possibility that meds can help you break these kinds of cycles and my best suggestion to you would be to go see someone trained in these kinds of things.
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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Sep 18, 2014 - 11:03am PT
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Multi-generational trauma is why depression runs in families. I know that medical dogma runs: DNA-RNA-Protein, but it's more like Bruce Lipton insists, DNA plus environment, environment, environment. If you just take anti-depressants without dealing with the underlying psychological and environmental causes behind your depression, it's just going find some other way of expressing itself. I think the psychologists call the phenomenon, symptom substitution.
I suspect this is often true, but not always. In my case, the depression was endogenous. In other words, the depression came first. Only then did I have issues I needed to resolve. First, I needed medication. Then I needed psychological advice to deal with the issues caused when my depression made me unable to function normally.
I think depression confuses us because it differs from, say, appendicitis. The latter we recognize as always being a medical condition, requiring medical intervention. Depression symptoms may or may not result from a medical condition requiring medical intervention. Most importantly, few people suffering from depression have the ability to self-diagnose, although they often unintentionally self-medicate.
John M gives the best advice: seek professional help. They really can change your life for the better.
John
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Big Mike
Trad climber
BC
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Sep 18, 2014 - 11:07am PT
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Agreed dr f.
Skitch. Sounds like you're in a rut. Happens sometimes for sure. There is no cure all, but trying different methods and finding a solution that works for you is the answer. You've accomplished the first step by admitting that it's an issue.
Weed works, but when i'm really down it makes me lazy too so sometimes it's not the answer. Realizing you don't want or have to feel that way and taking steps to combat the issue will go a long way to restoring your happiness.
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High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
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Sep 18, 2014 - 11:19am PT
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skitch, just posting what you probably already have in mind, so it's just for reinforcement sake... consider a very many strategy approach (cf: one-strategy approach) as part of your playbook for this thing.
Have you tried meditation? You probably already have. btw, Sam Harris has a new book out just this week on this very thing regarding meditation, restless mind, discursive unwanted thinking (leading to uber worry, etc.) and secular spirituality without religion.
Good luck.
"Black care rarely sits behind a rider whose pace is fast enough."
EDIT I see others have pretty much said much the same thing. Poignant post. Best of luck.
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