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| Messages 1 - 79 of total 79 in this topic |
Slakkey
Big Wall climber
From Back to Big Wall Baby
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Mar 30, 2010 - 10:15pm PT
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Sort of saw this on the horizon, It will be interesting to see who or if someone takes over the company
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Nadia Waggoner
Boulder climber
Laramie, wyoming
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Mar 31, 2010 - 11:42am PT
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Hi.
May be some body thinks that there is no reason to sell company, I have just run it, what actually i did for several months after Dave passed away.
I hope people can understand that it was very emotionally ( actually not technically)hard for me to be in the shop with out Dave, in the shop where we spend most our time together, where we worked together.
I hope I can find some body who will be same way like Dave was (climber and engineer), who can run this small company with large potential and do not trash it.
I hope I answered for question: why?
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HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
Arid-zona
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Mar 31, 2010 - 11:46am PT
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Someone buy this and start making badass cams again tia.
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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Mar 31, 2010 - 11:48am PT
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only 16 miles to Vedauwoo...
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couchmaster
climber
pdx
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Mar 31, 2010 - 11:52am PT
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Nadia: Malcom at Trango should be the first call. He can provide you an income stream based on each cam sold, and his small cams, the splitter cams, suck in comparison to Aliens, but the quality is certainly there. Love to see Trango mfg them. I emailed him to give him a heads up. Here's some of the inventors who went with Trango discussing why they did.
http://www.rockclimbing.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?do=post_view_flat;post=165047;page=4;sb=post_latest_reply;so=ASC;mh=25;
Malcolm has been very honorable towards them, and the inventors and Mfgs but especially we as climbers have benefited. Thanks Trango!
Good luck with whatever happens.
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Studly
Trad climber
WA
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Mar 31, 2010 - 12:24pm PT
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I like Couchmasters idea.
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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Mar 31, 2010 - 01:00pm PT
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Malcom is the man
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Mungeclimber
Trad climber
sorry, just posting out loud.
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Mar 31, 2010 - 01:26pm PT
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such an ideal piece of gear for walls, and even free climbing in most ways. hope this works out so they keep getting produced and even improved upon.
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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Mar 31, 2010 - 01:53pm PT
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They fit in Balch camp, Munge, hint...
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couchmaster
climber
pdx
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Mar 31, 2010 - 03:31pm PT
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Weld_it said: Do they need a welder as i will be available in about 45 days
Congrats on the early parole.
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10b4me
Ice climber
Ice Caves at the Sads
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Mar 31, 2010 - 04:01pm PT
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I hope Mal does take it over.
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Bill Sherman
Mountain climber
Thousand Oaks, CA
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Mar 31, 2010 - 04:06pm PT
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The hybrids gave us all a leg up on being able to clean old aid lines. A truly great product that I would hate to see disappear as well.
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Acer
Big Wall climber
AZ
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Mar 31, 2010 - 04:06pm PT
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I would like the current Employees do a BUY OUT.
That is what I would do.
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maldaly
Trad climber
Boulder, CO
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Mar 31, 2010 - 04:26pm PT
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I love my Aliens too, especially since I was able to proof test them to 1,200lbf each. Unfortunately, for a million reasons, this deal is probably not doable for us. But if there is anyone out there who is looking for a labor of love....
Climb safe,
Mal
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pud
climber
Sportbikeville
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Mar 31, 2010 - 04:28pm PT
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PM sent.
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msiddens
Trad climber
Mountain View
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Mar 31, 2010 - 05:36pm PT
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great devices...hope this gets worked out as I love 'em
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mooch
Trad climber
Old Climbers' Home (Adopted)
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Hmmm.....Balch Camp. Check your local listings before rooting. Hint, hint.
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paganmonkeyboy
climber
mars...it's near nevada...
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could we publicly buy it ? there's enough gearheads that love aliens - could we organize and hire someone to run it and do it that way ?
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LccMonkey
Trad climber
utah
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I wonder how much they want for it?
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Dick Danger
Trad climber
Lakewood, Colorado
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"I wonder how much they want for it?"
Yeah, me too. Someone post-up if details are known.
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Mimi
climber
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Aliens. A great movie. Even better pro.
All the best to you, Nadia.
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Ihateplastic
Trad climber
It ain't El Cap, Oregon
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paganmonkeyboy...
could we publicly buy it ? there's enough gearheads that love aliens - could we organize and hire someone to run it and do it that way ?
Simple answer, "Yes." Perhaps, if there really is the interest in being investors then an off-line discussion could/should occur.
LccMonkey
I wonder how much they want for it?
Dick Danger
Yeah, me too. Someone post-up if details are known.
Not to be too rude, but that discussion should NEVER occur here on a public forum! We are talking about someone's business. Something that means a lot to them and that privacy must be respected. Anyone interested in being considered as part of the business discussions process can contact Nadia and sign the proper paperwork.
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duncan
climber
London, UK
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DMM have no equivalent in their current range and must be thinking of producing a small cam. They recognise Aliens as the market leader. With their record of taking out-of-patent cam designs and trying to improve them, a Welsh Alien (an Englishman?) may be a possibility.
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scarcollector
climber
CO
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Ihateplastic your discretion is appreciated, we'll try not to violate any trust or confidentiality with specifics in this forum.
Since it's not a publicly traded company and is probably not going to be going through an IPO anytime soon, it cannot be "publicly" bought; however it could be financed through a private placement memorandum under Regulation D of the Securities Act of 1933.
I live just over the border in Colorado, and I've got some experience in putting deals together for manufacturing operations like this. I would be glad to help with advice on valuation, financing, operations management, etc.
-Jim
tarsier AT frii.com
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dustonian
climber
RRG
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someone buy this company. I can't climb el cap without hybrids!!
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Ihateplastic
Trad climber
It ain't El Cap, Oregon
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scarcollector,,, I agree
Since it's not a publicly traded company and is probably not going to be going through an IPO anytime soon, it cannot be "publicly" bought; however it could be financed through a private placement memorandum under Regulation D of the Securities Act of 1933.
My comment was generic, in that, sure people can "get together and buy/start/run a company." Beyond that, there are many, many fine details that need to be examined/discussed. Clearly you have a much better handle on this than I do! Perhaps if things come to pass...
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the Fet
climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
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Nothing sticks like Aliens. And my old ones need replacing, I hope someone keeps them alive.
I understand a price can't be posted but it would probably attract more potential buyers if a ballpark figure or range is posted. e.g. mid 6 figures?
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scarcollector
climber
CO
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Ihateplastic - you're right that essentially regular joe climbers could raise the money and "buy in." Much of the SEC regulation on this concerns how the stock could be advertised for sale, but if the money (or debt capacity) is there then a deal can be worked out.
Regarding price: with a company in a "distressed" situation the price and terms of a deal are often flexible. I doubt that the owners say "we want to get $xxx,xxx and we won't take a penny less because that's what the Net Present Value calculation says it's worth." It's often more like: "buy the assets for their depreciated cost, give us an equity share, and we'll finance the rest of the sale as debt" or something like that. My point is that there is often a lot of room for creative negotiation.
I should point out that I know nothing about this company or situation other than their little yellow ones are the sh#t on The Nose and that offsets have saved my bacon a few times.
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jsb
Trad climber
Bay area
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Is there anywhere to buy alien cams right now?
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slevin
Trad climber
New York, NY
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I have taken some serious whippers on small Aliens and walked away. I love the product and would love to get more, no matter what some people on the net said about the quality. So, assuming the right management and marketing, I could see this being a profitable investment project for someone. Especially considering that this is an established company with an sizable market share.
My concerns would mostly run along the following lines:
(a) would all of the technical personnel be retained by the company once it's taken over?
(b) how difficult would it be to find proper management for a business like that?
(c) could quality assurance concerns be addressed in a definitive manner and integrated into the marketing strategy?
Regarding price: with a company in a "distressed" situation the price and terms of a deal are often flexible. Well, distressed nature of the company in this case is purely perceptional and psychological. For someone who is a friend (which is the case) I guess the negotiations should be "creative", but not hardball.
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Ihateplastic
Trad climber
It ain't El Cap, Oregon
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Priviet Slevin...
All excellent points and well-presented.
Poka!
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Mr_T
Trad climber
The 7th Pin Scar on Serentiy Crack
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Sounds like the owner(s) want out and BD or Trango aren't interested. Best of luck, esp after the exploding cam debacle.
They're probably worth:
$X for the Alien brand name (now tarnished)- maybe a few hundred $k
$(0.1 * X) for the Alien patent - BD also makes a small cam now.
$Y plant/facilities
-$Z for any debt
-$W for outstanding liabilities from previous manufacturing defects (serious liability to name/brand). Can a previously made, defective cam out in the wild sink the new owner?
Fill in the blanks and that's about it. It's %100 clear that's what's left of existing management is walking away, as may other employees. You can't move the business without losing every employee. The existing cash flow is shaky at best - buyers have no guarantee on quality. Their market share is likely in decline - first the explode-a-cam, then word of a new owner/manufacturer. Its a competitive business with an 800lb gorilla (BD) to contend with.
EDIT: It's too bad to see a family type business go. I love my aliens. But as far as buying this - there's just aren't a lot of companies who could successfully do it.
And I might add that hybrids will fetch a pretty penny next summer. Heh- there's your answer - run off a stock pile now, store them, and keep the price/profit high with limited supply.
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Curt
Boulder climber
Gilbert, AZ
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I'm not surprised that BD, Trango etc. are not interested. CCH is worth essentially zero.
Curt
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pud
climber
Sportbikeville
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The last two posts expose the problem with posting this type of information on the internet.
People with little or no business experience spraying about things they do not understand or even have a clue. They do this with no regard for the people this type of abuse may effect.
I would never call some one that would do this a friend.
If CCH sells, it will be a positive experience for the current owners and the goodwill they have provided to so many will be returned.
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blahblah
Gym climber
Boulder
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Any buyer would and should be worried about liability for defective products made before the sale but should also consult a competent attorney to assess that potential liability. It may depend on the way the sale is structured and the issues *may* be manageable.
Just sayin don't make assumptions unless you are knowledgeable about this tricky legal area.
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Curt
Boulder climber
Gilbert, AZ
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...People with little or no business experience spraying about things they do not understand or even have a clue...
Have a look in the mirror, my friend.
Curt
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MTucker
Ice climber
Arizona
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"$X for the Alien brand name (now tarnished)- maybe a few hundred $k "
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
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Mr_T
Trad climber
The 7th Pin Scar on Serentiy Crack
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This is a for-sale post (see title). You put something up for sale, we're gonna come up with a price. Don't want us to talk price, don't put it up for sale in a public forum.
Thinking it over more, one possible deal that could keep CCH alive would be to structure it so the seller takes some % of profit over a few years, but relinquishes majority control. That would keep the original owner invested in the company financially, and reduce the buy in for a new owner. Though how it's structured liability wise, it's hard to say (ie you take over, get hit next week with a lawsuit for a cam you didn't make). The existing owner wants out (for very much justified personal reasons), and you'd be a co-owner. I just don't seen anyone ponying up the cash for an outright buy out - if you can make/sell a cam, why not just design your own?
Laugh all you want at the few hundred k argument. Unless you can reverse the declining market share, and compete with BD/Trango's R&D efforts, you're faced with negative growth. Eventually you'll stop turning a profit and as the 2nd owner, discover the company worth zero/negative. Oh, and any patents on the Alien will eventually expire/ have expired(?). Once those patents go away, the value of the company really drops (BD/Trango/OP or some new co are free to incorporate the design).
Before you go laughing, consider:
How many aliens are sold in the US each year at wholesale? Best case you'd match a fraction of 2008's sales. You've already lost ground to BD in the past year.
CCH probably sells to REI at %55 retail (based on outdated pro-deal figures from 12 years ago, and this being a specialty market). So you the manufacturer sell at about $30 a unit. Subtract out manufacturing, overhead, and liability insurance costs, and you're making maybe $10-15/unit? Being a new owner, don't think the insurance co is gonna just give you a favorable premium.
The average buyer purchases 10 of these in their lifetime, replacing perhaps 1/ year? Maybe 20,000 customers at best? So you're taking in $200-300k/yr before taxes. Given competition and eroding market share, this will steadily decline over the next 10 years to zero unless you expand/compete against BD (ie $ spent on R&D).
Sure, Aliens are worth $60 a pop, but CCH doesn't deal direct to customers. Adding on retail would involve significant changes to the company business (increased liability coverage as well as running sales, customer svc).
EDIT: For the record, Aliens are great cams. They're a great product. I have a set and love them.
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Mr_T
Trad climber
The 7th Pin Scar on Serentiy Crack
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Anyone know if the patent on the Alien cam is still in effect? One post on teh innertubes suggests it was filed in Dec 1988. That would suggest the patent has lapsed - Shanghai Custom Hardware can start running these off tomorrow?
(And no, I don't support the idea of outsourcing this, would never buy a cam from Shanghai.)
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Curt
Boulder climber
Gilbert, AZ
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The basic Alien patent (4,923,160) has expired. Nobody in their right mind would buy the company CCH--there is simply too much baggage and potential for future liability. Nadia's best bet would be to try and negotiate an asset purchase agreement with another company that may want to manufacture Alien cams in the future.
However, as I stated previously, the value here is not going to amount to much--probably not more than the value of the building and land (assuming CCH owns their facility) plus the value of the manufacturing equipment (machinery) and existing inventory. Mention of a LBO for CCH did give me a good chuckle, though.
Curt
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Gene
Social climber
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=
Colorado Custom Hardware
Colorado Custom Hardware is now for Sale. Company is making the famous Alien Cams. If you are interested please e-mail us cchaliens@aol.com
=
Best regards,
Nadia Waggoner
production/office manager
Colorado Custom Hardware
115 E.Lyon Street
Laramie, Wyoming 82072
Good luck and godspeed Nadia.
Best wishes for a good outcome. Disregard the peanut gallery and uniformed speculators.
Gene
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Curt
Boulder climber
Gilbert, AZ
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On the other hand, it's not always a good idea to ignore people who know what they're talking about.
Curt
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adatesman
Trad climber
philadelphia, pa
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@Curt- Actually, CCH had 2 patents on the Alien design; 4,923,160 and 4,832,289. IIRC one covered the internal springs and the other the sleeve trigger assembly. But it doesn't really matter anymore since both patents have expired (patent dates 5/90 and 5/89 respectively).
EDIT- Erm... Then again, I dunno offhand if 4,923,160 expired or not; depends on whether it falls under the old 17 year duration or new 20 year duration. I forget when the cutover date was...
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Mr_T
Trad climber
The 7th Pin Scar on Serentiy Crack
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Well then what's the story with liability? Anyone here an attorney? If you buy out CCH for $1, then discover tomorrow that a cam failed and you have a $10M lawsuit against CCH, what happens?
It'd be almost better to shutter CCH, let the outstanding liabilities disappear, start a new co, hire on Nadia to teach you to run your plant/manufacture/etc. Buy CCH's old machinery (or not - again what if a machine fails, hurts your employee?) Just copy the Alien design, rebrand it. We'd all get our hybrids, the killer design lives on.
I'd bet someone who wants to start a climbing co has some kind of opportunity here. You could manufacture bigwall specialty gear - alien style hybrids, port-a-ledges, hooks, etc.
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Curt
Boulder climber
Gilbert, AZ
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adatesman, Even with 20 year patent protection, both of those patents would have expired, since the clock starts ticking on the application date.
Curt
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Erik Sloan
climber
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Three cheers for our future cams!
Thank you Nadia for taking the torch from Dave. May the Joy he brought to climbers everywhere stay with you always.
Much Great Love to the next bearer of the internal-spring soft-metal-cam torch.
The future is sparkling as ever.
best
e
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Curt
Boulder climber
Gilbert, AZ
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...Well then what's the story with liability? Anyone here an attorney? If you buy out CCH for $1, then discover tomorrow that a cam failed and you have a $10M lawsuit against CCH, what happens?
Then the corporation has to defend against that lawsuit--or risk having a judgement entered against it. This particular problem can be avoided simply by buying the assets of the company instead of the actual shares of the corporation. In situations like CCH, a buyer would almost certainly want to pursue an asset purchase. The only downside is to the seller, who is then taxed on the sale proceeds as regular income--instead of the more favorable capital gains rates.
Disclaimer--I'm not an attorney, but my wife is.
Curt
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blahblah
Gym climber
Boulder
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The issue of what is called in legal jargon "successor liability" is at least somewhat more complex than Curt states above. A purchase of the assets (rather than the business itself) will not *necessarily* absolve the purchaser of all liabilities, in all jurisdictions.
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Gene
Social climber
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None of you valuation pundits know what is for sale until you have done your due diligence. I suspect none of you has done that. My best wishes to Nadia in selling whatever it is she is trying to sell. How is ownership of CCH held? What about that $50,000,000 prepaid liability policy? What about those wonderful gizmos Dave had on the drawing board when he passed? Have you considered all the non-recourse loans involved in the business? Yeah, Im making this up, but until you understand all aspects of what Nadia is trying to sell, why dont you shut your pie holes? Your uninformed speculations and opinions based on unsupported assumptions adds nothing to the discussion.
If you are interested, find out what you need to know. If you're not interested, don't fart in the punch bowl.
Or Ready, Fire, Aim.
g
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Curt
Boulder climber
Gilbert, AZ
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...The issue of what is called in legal jargon "successor liability" is at least somewhat more complex than Curt states above. A purchase of the assets (rather than the business itself) will not *necessarily* absolve the purchaser of all liabilities, in all jurisdictions...
The exceptions you allude to are extremely limited in nature. Naturally, you would want to have an attorney competent in this area of law draft any asset purchase agreement.
http://www.kamletlaw.com/NewsPage.aspx?id=Publications&article=122721874749265
Curt
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Curt
Boulder climber
Gilbert, AZ
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Gene, I'm sure you are sympathetic to CCH and all, but there are only so many ways to value a company. Yes, rigorous diligence is required before committing to a specific number, but it's not very likely that CCH is worth very much--sorry.
I am clearly speculating here--but the assumptions I'm making are pretty darn reasonable.
Curt
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Mr_T
Trad climber
The 7th Pin Scar on Serentiy Crack
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I'm confused why discussing the value of something listed as "for Sale" (see title) is so off-limits. Especially when the posting was solicited by the owner. This discussion is nothing against the owner - they made great cams - they just don't have a business that sells easily. The title of the tread is "for Sale" after all. It's not a job posting for a manager, it's "for Sale". It's not manage my company with me, it's buy my company.
And seriously, this is CCH, not someone's old port-a-ledge. Kind of like the Mig-19 that was up for sale on Ebay. We're gonna poke at it a bit.
And to answer:
Company is for sale - who care's how it's held (likely one person, Nadia). The whole thing is for sale. You really want a minority shareholder around?
Prepaid insurance? I don't think that's how most insurance co's roll.
Paying for un-released R&D - I've got a bridge to sell you.
Debt - only destroys remaining value.
Now if you'll excuse me, I have an F-16 to bid on...
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Gene
Social climber
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Curt,
No bias or interest in CCH. My point is that unless one truly knows what is being offered, speculation is just noise. You're probably correct that CCH ain't worth much. As an example of my point, look at the classic real estate situation. Two identical buildings in equally desirable locations are for sale. One has a 30 year lease to a creditworthy tenant. The other is leased for six months as head shop by the daughter of the RE owner. They are essentially the same except for the leases. Which is more marketable and worth more?
The devil is in the details of which we know knott. That's all.
g
EDIT: A client had a business worth about $2.1 million until it was discovered that it had about $850K in retained earnings that the IRS signed off on. Kinda changed the value.
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Erik Sloan
climber
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First off I want to say thank you to anyone who takes on the New Alien cam project. Cheers!
As the person who probably spends the most time thinking, staring at, and climbing USA's bigwalls I'll fill in some details for more recent comers:
Ten years ago everyone wanted to buy CCH, or get a lease on the patent for the internal spring design. I worked at the Mt. Shop in '02 and '03 and Ted told me that every Trade show a different vendor pulled him aside and opened his/her trenchcoat to reveal an Alien knockoff. 'As soon as we close the deal with Dave, or the patent is up' seemed to be the mindset. But Dave wouldn't budge on leasing the patent, allow other's to contract making cams for him(reportedly one distributorship offered to buy CGI machines and make the cams if they could have them to sell, such was the market share in the early 2000s), or sell the company. I remember Michael Haag, one of the Splitter cam inventors, telling me that their cams ultimately failed to take off because they needed the internal spring design.
So it seemed like Dave would ride out his last decades with a fat REI contract that kept his shop humming and left every other store in the world desperate to get his goods.
Then the cams started breaking. Distributors stopped carrying Aliens faster than Hans and Yuji climbed the Nose. But those of us that climb in Yosemite all the time(and a few other places like Colorado and the Gunks, no?) were so hooked we didn't care. Bounce test all your cams and you know they're good.
The cam breaking scandal created the real momentum for all the big companies to abandon dreams of an exact Alien knockoff and come out with something "better". Too bad those companies never came here to Yosemite and actually had people use they're cams a ton before releasing them, so they would know that they could compete with a product so uniquely bitchin that people would pay full price even knowing that some units had failed.
So now the folks at Trango, Bd, Metolius and so on have too much time and money invested in their supposedly superior small cams to entertain buying a company that makes a product that directly competes with one they already own/produce.
I write all this that hopefully someone who is new to the industry might recognize a unique opportunity in CCH, one that is perhaps not as invaluable as this current discussion would lead you to believe. Rest assured that even today, when the Mt. Shop gets a shipment of Aliens in they still sell out within a week. Every time. People still email me or ask me in person every week where they can buy Aliens, or tell me how they could not imagine having climbed they're last big wall route as clean without hybrid Aliens.
True, there seem to have been some parts of the CCH operation that undermined the company's reputation. But the massive interest in these products, despite these problems, should underscore how valuable they are to the climbing community.
Keep the Alien Love alive!
many cheers
e
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Erik Sloan
climber
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One of the most easily recognizable impacts Aliens have had on our current cams is the proliferation of the color-coded reinforced thumb loop, something that BD reps used to say their company would never make on a cam. Every year that Aliens were at the top it seemed another company switched over to nice, color-coded loops. Thanks Dave!
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Thorgon
Big Wall climber
Sedro Woolley, WA
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I hope Moses buys em!
Thor
Nohtin scarier, than an Alien with a Tomahawk!
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Jun 25, 2010 - 09:05pm PT
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Anything ever happen with this?
Seems like they would at least sell the patent
Peace
Karl
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caughtinside
Social climber
Davis, CA
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Jun 25, 2010 - 09:59pm PT
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patents are expired?
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ccendre
Mountain climber
vancouver, bc, canada
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Oct 25, 2010 - 04:05pm PT
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excuse me, but there is still some Alien can available around the word. I would like to buy this awesome cam. I try to contact the compagny (Colorado Custom Hardware Inc.) by email but she told me (please contact us in couple weeks. CCH is for sale now), and now it's been 1 month, so if someone can answer me to say yes or no or wait that would be nice. Thanks everyone
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Dalyte
Trad climber
Nevada
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Oct 25, 2010 - 05:42pm PT
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eBay would be the only better place to find it. Mark Miller sold couple sets last week after posted on taco in less than an hour. On eBay you might find some new but prepare to pay big $$$, used one goes for about $60 and up. Nobody makes CCH anymore and question if they will in a future. The closest cams to Aliens are Metolius Mastercams. Check Chris gear reviews.
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JP.Franklin
Trad climber
Santiago-CHILE
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Sadly I have parts and pieces for over 150 aliens. We were contracted for assembling some time before Mr. Waggoner passed away.
Donīt know what to do with this stuff....
Frank.
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Mungeclimber
Trad climber
sorry, just posting out loud.
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JP easy answer
MAKE THEM!
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Fishy
climber
Zurich, Switzerland
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Concerning spare parts - I have a red alien that is missing the screw at one end of the axel (the cams can now fall off). Any chance I could buy a few parts JP?
Pete.
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Holdplease2
Big Wall climber
Yosemite area
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JP:
I have a half dozen aliens with broken springs, bent axels, completely worn lobes, and I'm not the only one. You could probably set up a nice little repair business for a while, I know I would pay nicely to have these things working again.
Additionally, there are folks like Ryan at Nomad Ventures in Joshua Tree and Bernie (Dr. Cam) who runs some repairs through the Mountain Shop who might be happy to place a parts order with you, as it would give them a nice, unique service to offer.
-Kate.
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adatesman
Trad climber
philadelphia, pa
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Sadly I have parts and pieces for over 150 aliens. We were contracted for assembling some time before Mr. Waggoner passed away.
Donīt know what to do with this stuff....
Frank.
Well, if you were subcontracted to do the assembly then those materials still belong to CCH and should be returned to them. If they don't want them I suppose you're free to do with them as you please, but in theory they'd still be in CCH's financials as either WIP (work in progress) or inventory.
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JLP
Social climber
The internet
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That's 15k on ebay for mint units. I'd build them up and sell them. Screw repairs. They're disposable. What financials - is CCH even a company anymore?
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adatesman
Trad climber
philadelphia, pa
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If Nadia's still trying to sell the company, then yes, it is still a going concern with claim to its assets.
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Gene
Social climber
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Can't (or shouldn't) sell what you don't own. Of course, we know nothing of the details.
g
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JLP
Social climber
The internet
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So a claim is made and this guy sends them a check for a few hundred for the missing parts. Reality is that the parts will never be claimed.
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adatesman
climber
philadelphia, pa
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Sends them a check for a few hundred to cover lost parts and then turns around and sells the assembled parts for the 15k mentioned above? Sounds like theft to me, but whatever.
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ontheedgeandscaredtodeath
Trad climber
San Francisco, Ca
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Who knows who owns the parts? Anyone read the contract? Maybe CCH owes the parts guy $.
In any case, seems like Aliens are no more.
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Holdplease2
Big Wall climber
Yosemite area
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Please note when I made the suggestion above, I didn't realize he wasn't working with CCH, and possibly does not actually "own" or have rights to the parts.
-Kate.
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JP.Franklin
Trad climber
Santiago-CHILE
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Honestly I didnīt expect so many replies for but I want to clarify some facts:
Iīam not intending to negotiate with this bunch of parts, but it looks like a waste to be watching them here around my house everyday. Mostly when about one year ago I propose to continue assembling to Nadia and she didnīt want the carry on the operation (technically reasons I think...)
Most of the sizes I assembled (brazing including) were Reds, Grays and Yellows. No unit brazed/ assembled here in Chile ever fail. They were carefully put together and individually tested in a digital jig. You can note my work with a "P" stamped on the head of units I made.
I still can service Alien units sold in Chile, but the distance from States to Chile would make it far from being a Cost Effective operation.
Last bunch of Aliens were assembled and shipped out to US in last February, in this case the stainless nuts were machined here locally and it ended better than the CCH factory made used on previous stuff.
I assembled about 9000+ units and I get to admit my stuff was of better functioning, better finished and safer than the cams previously made in the States.
We started the assembling operation on November 2006 after the famous Recall, when Mr. Waggoner landed here in Santiago with small machinery, measuring tools and a soul full of knowledgement to share with somebody interested on helping out.
Well, this is a small story to tell about Aliens, but I feel proud to have been be part of it and have known somebody like David Waggoner.
JP. Mountaineer, climber, Mechanical Designer and former CCH assembler.
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dhayan
climber
los angeles, ca
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Jan 10, 2011 - 12:46am PT
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bump?
what's going on with cch?
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Javibar
Sport climber
Burgos, Spain
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I would like to know where i can buy one of this aliens cams in NY
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graniteclimber
Trad climber
The Illuminati -- S.P.E.C.T.R.E. Division
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Maybe JP.Franklin could work something out where he picks up the business and builds cams in Chile?
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The Dodo
Trad climber
Boston
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For the love of god man just put those aliens together and sell them on the internet. I know dirtbags are cheap but i know plenty of people who would be happy to pay 100$ for an alien. and you are obviously the most experienced person left to assemble those units.
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| Messages 1 - 79 of total 79 in this topic |
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