X-Woman: DNA Identifies New Ancient Human

Search
Go

Discussion Topic

Return to Forum List
This thread has been locked
Messages 1 - 34 of total 34 in this topic
MisterE

Social climber
Across Town From Easy Street
Topic Author's Original Post - Mar 24, 2010 - 06:02pm PT
Pretty cool news!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/8583254.stm
BooDawg

Social climber
Paradise Island
Mar 24, 2010 - 06:46pm PT
This is extremely interesting. I've often thought that the origins and dispersal of human ancestors support the possibilities of the existence of BigFoot and Yeti species even down to the present. Unfortunately, the evidence for these species at present is very scant.
bmacd

Trad climber
Beautiful, BC
Mar 24, 2010 - 09:17pm PT
very exciting news ...

We will also see definitive bigfoot video evidence released this year.

As recently as 30,000 years ago, it now appears, there were five human species in the world: Homo erectus, the little Floresians, Neanderthals, modern humans and the new lineage from the Denisova cave. This is similar to the situation two million years ago, when four hominid species are known to have lived in the Turkana Basin of Kenya, Dr. Tattersall said.

Maybe some of the old legends are based on fact more than we previously thought.
Klimmer

Mountain climber
San Diego
Mar 24, 2010 - 10:14pm PT
Ok, this is interesting!

Hey, do not forget the hypothesis that they could be Nephalim = the off-spring of Angels and Man. Both the Book of Genesis and the Book of Enoch go into great detail on this.

Just saying. You got to consider it.
Jan

Mountain climber
Okinawa, Japan
Mar 24, 2010 - 10:19pm PT
Klimmer-

Angels are presumably spiritual beings who do not have earth evolved DNA. Granted, the people who wrote about the offspring of angels and men may have encountered a new species of homonin they thought fit that description, but if it has homonin DNA, it evolved on earth not in the heavens.
Jan

Mountain climber
Okinawa, Japan
Mar 24, 2010 - 10:27pm PT
Here's an article from the New York Times on the same find with a chart that makes where it fits on the evolutionary tree a little more clear.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/25/science/25human.html?hpw

It is an interesting find for me in particular, since I attended an anthropology conference in China last year where the Chinese fossil experts showed a remarkable series of slides indicating that there were homonins in China as recently as 100,000 that looked quite different from modern humans. The problem was that they were tainting their finds with Chinese ethnocentrism, claiming that this proved the Chinese were not descended from Africa and were unique from other human beings on the planet, something which their own Chinese DNA experts hotly disputed.

With this new find, both are right in their own fields of expertise though the ethnocentric assumptions of uniqueness do not hold. The different looking fossils the Chinese have found were different from modern humans and may have overlapped with them, and all modern Chinese did indeed, like the rest of us, come from Africa a mere 60,000 years ago.
kiwi

Trad climber
Olympia, WA
Mar 24, 2010 - 10:34pm PT
In my microbiology class I am extracting Mitochondria DNA from my own cheek cells, so this is really cool. interesting to think about for sure.

klimmer, a good healthy dose of logic is just what you need.
Klimmer

Mountain climber
San Diego
Mar 24, 2010 - 10:35pm PT
Jan,

I know what you are saying. I do. I can't explain it scientifically. But the good book is pretty clear on it and the Book of Enoch goes into great detail regarding this illicit relationship between Angels and Man.

Genesis 6:1-4 (KJV)
"[1] And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them,
[2] That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.
[3] And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.
[4] There were giants (Nephalim) in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown."



Perhaps supernatural Angels can indeed morph to physical form when they want to. The Angels who went to the cities of Saddam and Gomorrah were so convincing, that the people of the City wanted to do it with them!

Angels can talk, walk, eat, touch, and look just like you and me when they want to. Angels are spiritual, but they can take on physical forms too.



I think in time we will come to discover that this secret history within man's past is true. I really do.

If you accept that Angels made it with Earthly Women and had offspring called Nephalim, that had powers beyond normal humans, then the possibility of the Greek Myths take on a whole new meaning, as do the Vedas of India.

Also then much of the death and destruction of the OT is seen in a different light. Angels were not meant to mate with man, and GOD certainly had a vengeance against their offspring.
kiwi

Trad climber
Olympia, WA
Mar 24, 2010 - 11:46pm PT
Klimmer, f*#k off, stop turning every thread you post on into a place to make your views clear, believe me we get what you believe. redundantly posting the same sh#t doesn't improve your image or make you any friends.

go away troll.
Jan

Mountain climber
Okinawa, Japan
Mar 25, 2010 - 12:06am PT
kiwi-

Are you going to find out your individual haplotype from extracting your own DNA?

I have just spent the past two days reading about a haplotype I had never heard of when a cousin of mine turned up with it - E1b1b1. Since we always thought of ourselves as Anglo Saxons, this was quite a surprise since it is found chiefly in Egypt, Israel, Lebanon, Syria, Greece, and the Balkans.

Putting this together with a few other bits and pieces however, it now seems likely that we are part Jewish or anyway Mediterraneans who migrated to the south of France and then fled to England with the Huguenots (French Protestants) and on to the New World.

Scientific truth is always more interesting than fiction!
mark miller

Social climber
Reno
Mar 25, 2010 - 12:39am PT
Hey E just ask Minerals, we've only been around for 6000 years....Returning to the Mutha ship, beam me up Scotty.
kiwi

Trad climber
Olympia, WA
Mar 25, 2010 - 12:59am PT
jan
yeah, something like that. we get a sequence around 450 bp long and can compare it to other sequences on a online database, and that includes non human things. so I can see how related I am to a narwhal or a walrus!
Jan

Mountain climber
Okinawa, Japan
Mar 25, 2010 - 01:32am PT
Check out national Geographic's Genographic project, especially the human atlas. Look under genetic markers and you will see a list of all the known male and female haplotypes.
nature

climber
Tucson, AZ
Mar 25, 2010 - 03:00am PT
We will also see definitive bigfoot video evidence released this year.

would you mind expanding on this?
mountain dog

Trad climber
over the hills and far away
Mar 25, 2010 - 03:07am PT
kiwi, Chill out and have some tolerance for opinions. Your attitude can't change anyone's mind. Logic or not. When Werner speaks of Hindu gods and deity's no one challenges or complains. Same when others speak of Buddhism. Is it the message or the messenger? Even though I/you might not agree with Klimmer, I/we can learn something about an aspect of religion or philosophy we are ignorant of. That can make me/us more knowledgable about the world we live in. If you don't like it, just ignore it.
bmacd

Trad climber
Beautiful, BC
Mar 25, 2010 - 03:22am PT
Nature,

I have spoken in person with 2 individuals whom are under non-disclosure agreements, that a Canadian has a significant amount of footage close up of a sleeping female Sasquatch. One was a PhD Biologist from Vancouver Island I spoke with at length whom not only saw the footage but the creature as well. The other person saw only the video up here in vancouver

You Can see the chest rise and fall with the breathing, and full facial features, of a distincly human looking individual, not an ape.

I believe, but am not sure there is also supporting DNA evidence. The footage owner has invested several hundred thousand dollars in procuring this footage. He has made sure all his T's are crossed and I's dotted so this will be scientifically irrefutable stuff.

The video was shot in Kentucky in 2007

These recent Siberian DNA discoveries will help support the notion of concurrent human species in modern times.
BooDawg

Social climber
Paradise Island
Mar 25, 2010 - 06:39am PT
As I said earlier, I've always thought that the paleo-human ancestry supports the POSSIBILITY of Bigfoot and Yeti existence, even today. BUT we will obviously have to wait for this "irrefutable evidence." But why does someone have to invest hundreds of thousands of $$ in it before it can be made public? Makes me wonder if a form of video-Photoshop combined with a profit-motive is in play here. And is there DNA evidence from more than one laboratory (even from say a single hair sample) to corroborate the video evidence?? There have been enough false claims in this and other areas of science for us to balance the Bigfoot claims with healthy skepticism. Personally, I'd be delighted and awed if there really is another hominid cruising around the wilds of N. America or Asia.
Delhi Dog

Trad climber
Good Question...
Mar 25, 2010 - 08:57am PT
"Well said Mountain Dog, I would only argue that Buddhism and Philosphy are no more like religion than psychology or science are like religion."
I concure...
butt more importantly,

Dingus brings up some interesting (and I might add fairly funny) questions.
The whole question of human evolution is really intriguing...

Back to the Genographic project now...

Cheers,
DD
Jan

Mountain climber
Okinawa, Japan
Mar 25, 2010 - 09:29am PT
radical-

Google National Geographic Genographic Project. They have a very good website explaining all the haploid stuff and they offer the cheapest testing at $99.
mooch

Trad climber
Old Climbers' Home (Adopted)
Mar 25, 2010 - 10:38am PT
kiwi, Chill out and have some tolerance for opinions.

Yea....no sh#t!! Relax. Everyone has their own opinion on whatever subject matter. I, for one, think that you're a little bitch. Just my opinion.
bmacd

Trad climber
Beautiful, BC
Mar 25, 2010 - 02:19pm PT
Boodawg,

it was a long term human - homonin interaction/feeding situation. The researcher bought the subject's property to control the situation. $$$$ Apparently the local humans were of a criminal nature, then more money changed hands acquiring additional clips from these backwoods folks than should have. Other sh#t went down, vehicle damage, threats, probably some violence etc ... So yes there was a "Kentucky" factor ... there's more to the story of course but I don't know the details.

At one point some bigfoot footage got overwritten with some homemade porn by the Kentucky backwoods couple.

The owner wants this footage to be accepted, so he has already had the critics in to argue the counter point, photoshop, etc. The attempted debunking is going to be part of the final presentation. thats why its taking so long. A number of PhD.s are involved in this production.

Just releasing raw footage has'nt been successful in the past. There is quite a backstory with this one to go with the footage.

Final distribution is an issue too. This guy doing it is already a mega wealthy oil and gas type from Alberta, now a real estate developer in BC. I am sure he is planning to make some serious coinage from this homonin evidence too.

DMT - Obvisouly the surviving species were the shrewdest and likey the deadliest foe. We are a murderous lot to this day
BooDawg

Social climber
Paradise Island
Mar 25, 2010 - 03:01pm PT
bmacd: Thanks so much for the additional information. Sounds like there is a story behind the science, perhaps the stuff of which best-sellers and/or academy awards are made... Please post if/when you hear more.

I'm content to let whatever evidence appears be examined by the scientists and lay people alike. Science really isn't based on "facts" anyway. It's a series of VERIFIABLE hypothoses which is why new evidence on any topic is USUALLY welcomed and examined and why what we "know" keeps changing. It's more entertaining than TV anyway...

With aloha.
Mighty Hiker

climber
Vancouver, B.C.
Mar 25, 2010 - 03:03pm PT
Recently sighted in Vancouver and Whistler. Mass hallucinations. Cover-up by governments and the wealthy. What's not to like?
tom woods

Gym climber
Bishop, CA
Mar 26, 2010 - 12:41pm PT
Proto-humans living in Kentucky? Who would of thought?

If there really is money in it, I'm taking my camera to Barstow.

So how come there's money in filmed discovery of bigfoot, a new species of human, but when these scientists find a human bone with mitochondrial DNA that actually indicates a new species of human, they don't make millions?
Jan

Mountain climber
Okinawa, Japan
Mar 26, 2010 - 12:44pm PT
The National Geographic site is memory intensive.

The Wiki article on evolutionary bottlenecks was very interesting. I had read about the Toba near extinction theory before. Some people think that the small isolated populations of humans after that event is the period in which modern human "races" developed.
Jingy

Social climber
Nowhere
Mar 26, 2010 - 03:22pm PT
I wonder what this does for those that believe everything was created shortly before Mary was empregnated by "god" some 2010 year ago...?

The extinct "hominin" (human-like creature) lived in Central Asia between 48,000 and 30,000 years ago.




we know the scientists are totally making things up when everyone in the science community agrees with the tests we currently use to tell the age of things from long ago!!!



Further Reading Edit:
And they got along just fine back then... why the change in attitude? (selfishness maybe?)

"The discovery raises the intriguing possibility that three forms of human - Homo sapiens, Neanderthals and the species represented by X-woman - could have met each other and interacted in southern Siberia."




Good article Mister E!
cheers
Klimmer

Mountain climber
San Diego
Mar 26, 2010 - 04:04pm PT
Why is it that when these matters are discussed people always go automatically to the extremes on either end?

We have GOD-less Atheist Evolutionists, from the Big Bang --> Evolution --> to Present Day.

We have GOD-believing Fundamentalists whom think the Bible is being literal in the Book of Genesis when it tells the story of Creation, and then can back calculate through geneology that the Earth is about 6000 years old (?)

What about Theistic Evolution people? Both views have it right to a degree. The Big Bang is real. Evolution is real. The empirical evidence is overwhelming in many different ways, from many different fields of science. But guess what, the empirical evidence that GOD is real and all powerful is also very real. There are absolutely amazing things that verify the validity of the Word of GOD that can not be explained by science and by mere chance (Biblical Archeology, full-filled prophecy, Bible Code, the Star of Bethlehem, people's changed lives for the better, etc.)

You can attempt to wish it away, and try to make fun and light of it, but it won't go away. You have to look at all the evidence not just some that fits your world view and then ignore the rest. That is intellectual dishonesty.

The answer is in the middle. Theistic Evolution.

The Science of God: The Convergence of Scientific and Biblical Wisdom (Paperback) by PhD Gerald Schroeder

http://www.amazon.com/Science-God-Convergence-Scientific-Biblical/dp/1439129584/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1269633262&sr=8-1
MisterE

Social climber
Across Town From Easy Street
Topic Author's Reply - Mar 26, 2010 - 04:48pm PT
jstan

climber
Mar 26, 2010 - 05:19pm PT
Finally!
Klimmer has proven, for himself at least, everything is faith.


Klimmer says:
"The answer( to a political question) is in the middle. Theistic Evolution."



When two people discuss something NEITHER may be correct . I would guess this to be the case somewhere between half of the time and all of the time.

Klimmer has to put something into that spot so he puts in the average or the middle.

So we might look more seriously at the hypothesis that there is some subset of the population which



cannot tolerate uncertainty.



So they always plug something, anything, into a slot. God's will, for example.

It may even be a genetic anomaly. Or it could be an experience long ago that challenged survival.


Even in political questions they do the faith based trick and plug something into an empty slot.

This leads to permanent ignorance. All the slots are filed up with debris. When they know more, there is no place to put it.

Climbing may present a very interesting challenge to this psyche. You are looking at a pitch. You don't know whether you can do it. You can just plug in that you can do it and follow the maxim, "When in doubt, run it out."

But this can bring you squarely up against the desire to survive.

So I guess you could say someone who fails in this way and is killed, was expecting to go to their god.

Would be nice if they were right.

Shame they were in such a big hurry though.
Jan

Mountain climber
Okinawa, Japan
Mar 26, 2010 - 09:40pm PT
radical-

Don't make any assumptions about your family haplotypes until they're tested.They may turn out to be way more interesting than you imagine. Those Norwegians took captives in the past, and Native Americans kidnapped Europeans and European men raped Native women to give you a few examples.Natives and African Americans also mixed a lot in the south.

Also families are pretty good at covering up anomalies. There is a famous example of a Scottish woman who had a Polynesian haplotype. Turned out her g-g-g grandfather was a ship captain who brought a Polynesian wife back which the family had covered up. Also I know from my own research that alarge number of Jews in Europe converted and assimilated and pop up in the most unexpected places.
Chiloe

Trad climber
Lee, NH
Mar 26, 2010 - 09:57pm PT
Icelanders were once considered to be almost pure Nordic, but that turns out to be only half true:

These studies demonstrated that the country seems to have been settled by men from Scandinavia – the vikings – but that the majority of the original female inhabitants were from the coastal regions of Scotland and Ireland, areas that regularly suffered raids by vikings in the years around the settlement of Iceland 1100 years ago.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/01/090116073205.htm
cintune

climber
the Moon and Antarctica
Mar 27, 2010 - 11:34am PT
It definitely takes genealogy to another level. The Nat. Geo. kit is easy and inexpensive, makes for a meaningful birthday gift too. As a descendant of immigrants who didn't keep very good records I can't say who my great-great grandparents were, but at least I do know that way back, my ancestors first domesticated horses and developed the proto-Indo-European language. Every haplotype is a voyage of discovery.
Jan

Mountain climber
Okinawa, Japan
Mar 27, 2010 - 12:35pm PT
radical-

Brian Sykes out of Oxford has related haplotypes to specific groups in Europe and the British Isles in particular. http://www.oxfordancestors.com/content/view/25/43/

I did my haplotype test with him years ago. The National Geographic test is one third the price.
Jan

Mountain climber
Okinawa, Japan
Mar 27, 2010 - 12:38pm PT
One more thing to mention.

They do DNA testing for dogs now too!

This is mostly for breeders to prove purity of line, but is also available to people who want to know what mixture their mutt is.
Messages 1 - 34 of total 34 in this topic
Return to Forum List
 
Our Guidebooks
spacerCheck 'em out!
SuperTopo Guidebooks

guidebook icon
Try a free sample topo!

 
SuperTopo on the Web

Recent Route Beta