The LSD thread!!!

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bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
Topic Author's Original Post - Mar 17, 2010 - 05:09pm PT
Post up. I'll share my stories if you share yours. Mushrooms and other psychedelics qualify too!!!!

I haven't done TONS of acid, thank God. Just enough to come close to seeing God on several occasions.

(I did briefly look for an existing thread but drew blanks...)

I have no regrets about doing the deeds. Mind expanding stuff!!!!


Mmwwwaaahhhh!!!!!!
Ricardo Cabeza

climber
All Over.
Mar 17, 2010 - 05:19pm PT
What do mormons have to do with psychotropics? :)

JK, I've got tons of stories, just need to figure out which ones I can tell...
Maysho

climber
Soda Springs, CA
Mar 17, 2010 - 05:20pm PT
LSD - Long Slow Distance, highly recommended training mode for nordic racers, just about to head out for one after a week of being sick, little heat wave right now at Donner Summit, 55 degrees will make for mushy skating, probably go for MSD medium instead of long...

Peter
squatch

Boulder climber
santa cruz, CA
Mar 17, 2010 - 05:22pm PT
give me about two months and i'll get back to you
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
Topic Author's Reply - Mar 17, 2010 - 05:30pm PT
I got into psychedelics in the early 90's, the acid was crap for the most part. Laden with too much crap, it was speedy and conducive to weird trips. I decided that mushrooms was the more 'organic' way to go and, yeah, I was much more liberal back then. More concerned about 'chemical damage', so shrooms was it!

We gathered about 6 people together in my college apartment and we brewed the shrooms into tea and drank the nasty brew. Yeah, just eat 'em!

Well, this was when I was dating my ex-wife. We sat around watching a WW2 movie in the snow-covered forests in Holland. DO NOT WATCH TV ON ONE OF YOUR FIRST TRIPS!!! Ho, man. The commercials seemed like propaganda. It's weird because when you're tripping you can see through BS. Kinda hard to explain, but the marketing factors become apparent.

Anyway, I can't remember the flick, but I knew I was tripping when a soldier was diving in and out of the snow like a gopher, coming up and staring at us and laughing from the movie. Weird. "Dude, did you see that!!!"

Then it went bad.

My ex made the brutal mistake of going into the bathroom and looking at herself in the mirror while in full trip mode. She f*#king lost it!!!

She thought she saw a skeleton in her place. Due to the power of suggestion, everyone who went to verify this saw the same, A skeletal structure underneath their bodies, and it was EVIL LOOKING.

Needless to say she had a panic attack and had to be put into a room on a bed to relax. Our 'trips' were quickly declining. We were startled into sobriety.

Since that day I swore never to drop in an urban environment. Only in a wilderness setting. And that's when I started to have unbelievably mind-blowing trips...in a good way. More later....

EDIT: Maysho, sorry if I misrepresented. But c'mon.....
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
Topic Author's Reply - Mar 17, 2010 - 05:53pm PT
Then after me and my fishing buddy (prior to climbing) decided that we were going to seek out some good acid. The shrooms were good but we wanted some good acid for an upcoming annual trip-trip where fishing was the excuse to get away from our gals. They knew.

Where in Cali do you find the best acid? Yep, Telegraph Ave. in Berkeley. Off we went. We walked around with several potheads offering their goods. "No, we have bud, we're looking for some acid", we kept insisting. Finally one dude obliged. "Gimme money and stay here, I'll be back. This is why dealing with drug dealers is BAD.

He came back. He had A SHEET OF ACID ON MUSIC PAPER!!!! "What is this?", we ask." "It's a sheet, dude", he replies. Alright. We were sure we were scammed.

We drove to the Haight in SF to get more! We were screwed! I dropped a small (2hits) corner of it to 'test' it on the way. I stayed in the car while my buddy combed the gays for acid in the Haight. That's smart.

He got back to the car with like 4 hits of acid and I was giggling like a small girl. The Berkeley sh#t kicked in!!!!!

Turns out the Berkeley stuff was ultra-clean White Blotter. Kick ass!!!!

I think to this day he still has some of that in his freezer.

More to come....
Timid TopRope

Social climber
Paradise, CA
Mar 17, 2010 - 05:55pm PT
Bluey,

Sorry to break it to you but LSD was speedy and full of crap in the late 70's.

EDIT Yosemite is the best place and the worst place to take LSD.
climbinginchico

Trad climber
Modesto, CA
Mar 17, 2010 - 05:56pm PT
And here I was going to post about the Limited Slip Differential on my truck.

Sorry, no experience with drugs to speak of.
BrendaPuff

Sport climber
Boulder, Co.
Mar 17, 2010 - 06:00pm PT
Why do you think they call it "dope"?

I did have a near out of body experience in my van a while back. 3 hits of Owsley that had been cryogenically preserved at Cal Berkeley in the psyche lab, and some too hot for Hank DVDA action. oh my! end of story.
Watusi

Social climber
Newport, OR
Mar 17, 2010 - 06:05pm PT
Had quite a few mind altering experiences as well BITD!!
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
Topic Author's Reply - Mar 17, 2010 - 06:15pm PT
Brenda, why are you obsessed with sex? You are a troll. Post a pic or TR or lose my 'widely dignified' respect.

You're a troll.
salad

climber
Escondido
Mar 17, 2010 - 06:19pm PT
yeah please brenda. post that boldering pic again. i might just book a flight CO.
t*r

Trad climber
☆•*¨*•.¸¸❤❤¸.•*¨*•☆
Mar 17, 2010 - 06:20pm PT
i think never trying LSD or shrooms is the worst and best decision i've ever made. once i was at someone's house and they had a bowl of mushrooms on the TABLE!
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
Topic Author's Reply - Mar 17, 2010 - 06:27pm PT
t*r, it kinda like being being a doctor. You should only do that sh#t unless you're with a trained specialist w/ experience, and that ain't a doc.

If not, you're on a learning curve that could get you killed. Ya wanna be around someone who's tripped before and knows his sh#t. Kinda like doing your first lead w/o a helmet.
Rokjox

Trad climber
Boys I'dunno
Mar 17, 2010 - 06:42pm PT
I am old enough and had some experiences from 30 plus years ago.

But I don't think I can tell them here, as people seem to take such pleasure in breaking my little weak attempt at maintaining a vague separation from Rokjox...




Like I said before, your loss (es).



Disclaimer:
but you should have seen my friends. Everything I know was from watching them .. (... riiiight ... it could've happened that way...)







I could have made some good tales...

... Mexico federales...

... Sandoz microdots ...

... Mr Natural ...

... Laughing jags ...

... long drives ...

... I totally disagree with much already said, my experiences varied from manys, but my head has always been screwed on tighter than most peoples... I have no fear of my sub-conscious...

... know thyself ...

... but can't talk about that either...

... Censorship and retribution ...

.





Mushrooms breathe, BTW... But I can't say any more...


... Too bad...

I read Leary's autobiography, he understood acid better than anybody except John Lilly. Threy were both great minds and reseachers. You really want to know about and understand Psychedelics read their books ( esp. Center of the Cyclone).





Leary had an Acid based psych program where he took hard core criminals and broke their bad habits, within weeks... and his recidivism rate was like less than 20%, and anybody who knows what recidivism is knows how impossible that claim is ... but true!
rlf

Trad climber
Josh, CA
Mar 17, 2010 - 06:59pm PT
Jeez bluering, according to the internet you're the worst thing on the planet.

How on earth could you possibly post something like this?

As far as I can tell, you are responsible for the economic down turn, the impending 2012 end of life as we know it, and 911.

Wow, you got some balls...
locker

Social climber
Desert
Mar 17, 2010 - 07:00pm PT


"Sorry to break it to you but LSD was speedy and full of crap in the late 70's."...

First time I did LSD was 1967...

I was 12...

It WASN'T "Speedy and full of crap"...

;-)
Rokjox

Trad climber
Boys I'dunno
Mar 17, 2010 - 07:02pm PT
Nope, those was still the days of legal LSD from Sandoz Laboratories in Switzerland.


And God Bless Owsley, a man with real skillz ...
Jim Brennan

Trad climber
Vancouver Canada
Mar 17, 2010 - 07:04pm PT
Hey RIF,

Bluey's honest.

After all, why be half an as#@&%e ?
happiegrrrl

Trad climber
New York, NY
Mar 17, 2010 - 07:27pm PT
Did You Know?: That Bill W. and Dr. Bob got into not only the Kaballah, but did, in fact, drop acid? WITH Timothy Leary? True statement, and common knowledge in back-of-the-rooms AA.

They had gotten into mysticism, and also acid(which was the case for many people BITD). The acid produced "a spiritual awakening," and for a while, they actually considered this to have the potential for breakthrough science/medicine in the recovery process for alcoholics. Instant spiritual awakening....

Probably there are others who can provide more detail on this phase of the program. I'm not best for details; I tend to just keep more of the "essence" of things I learn. But I guess Leary was...sort of weird. I don't know what the deal was, but there was a parting of the ways and eventually the potential for acid was dropped(pun) from the program.



I never did acid, except once I think someone laced my drink at a house party. This was in the UP, around 1984. Acid then, was speed or some mix of garbage, and not much more. I was pretty out of it - way too out of it for the amount of pot and beer I had consumed. But had no "trip,"per se.

The next morning, one of the guys who'd stayed over, and whom had a crush on each other, kissed me, and I fainted - swooned like back in the olden days of talking pictures... hahahah. The kiss wasn't THAT good, so it must have been whatever I had been dosed with the night before.



My brother once did mushrooms, and vomited from the awfulness of eating them. Being expensive.....he scooped the barf up, put in on bread, and forced himself to try over. That. Was. THE. Singular most disgusting drug-related thing I have ever witnessed. (I never hung out with heroin junkies, obviously).


Years earlier - in the mid 70's - my older brothers and their friends were doing acid on occasion at our home. Their friends, Steve and Andy(brothers), had come from Madison, and they still had connections to some pretty good stuff, I guess. Steve and Andy introduced us to Zappa music, as well. This was a life-altering experience, so far as musical tastes go. But I digress....

So, Oney and Dan are dropping acid, and I am none the wiser, really. Except that night, I wake up around 2am and hear someone talking outside of my bedroom. The thing is - it was the dead of summer and hot, so I had a fan going full blast. I also had my door closed. The voice was not loud, just a regular level, and so I really shouldn't have been able to hear them. But I did. Clearly. But that's not the strange part....

The strange part was that the person was speaking in Spanish. Fluent Spanish. And it sounded very much like the voice of one of my younger brothers, John. So - I got out of bed, went to my desk, got a pen and paper and wrote "John spoke fluent Spanish" so the next morning I wouldn't think it was just a dream.

I woke up, and there was the note. It was bizarre....

Later in the day, I mentioned this incident and Oney and Dan's jaws both dropped, and they looked at each other.

"Whaaaat?" I asked.

They both said "That was Senor (can't recall the name)."

"Whattttt? Who???"

They told me that they had been tripping the day/night before and discovered that this Spanish Senor So and So lived within the walls of our house.....

Yes they did say that. And more, but again...I only remember the essence, not the details.



I was too afraid to do acid myself. I just knew that, with the stuff that I had in my background, it would not be a good thing to do. Not that I really believed a person turned into an orange on acid and never came back(popular 1970's anti-drug propaganda) - but I thought "If it "could" happen, I would be the type that it would happen to. I don't regret having never dropped acid.











bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
Topic Author's Reply - Mar 17, 2010 - 07:44pm PT
Hey RIF,

Bluey's honest.

After all, why be half an as#@&%e ?

I think I was just insulted and yet I don;t know why.
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
Topic Author's Reply - Mar 17, 2010 - 07:59pm PT
Happie, that's a classic acid trip about your bros!!!!

What's weird and dangerous about acid is it it very real!

LET ME BE CLEAR HERE!!! I DO NOT CONDONE THE USE OF LSD OR ANY DRUGS!!!

What you have to do when you drop acid is convince yourself that you're going on a ride. This is why the first time sucks....But you have to go into the trip with one hand on reality. Then you can really let go. Seems contradictory, but it worked for me. You have to always remember it's just a drug, a trip. It isn't reality, what you're seeing. It's a distortion.

Once I learned that, I had nothing but good rides!!!!

And it ain't for everybody, either. Some people go crazy, some kill, some never come back....

It's a bizarre substance that opens the mind to f*#king weird stuff.
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Mar 17, 2010 - 08:06pm PT
Blue - I think a couple of more hits are in order as whatever you took before obviously didn't work well enough. It got the long-hair doper part right, but all that conservative stuff under the hood clearly needs another couple of sessions to work out.
BES1'st

climber
City of Orange, CA.
Mar 17, 2010 - 08:06pm PT
That stuff and giggly trips is probably more for young persons lacking
of any major responsibilities in life. Add responsibility with older age
and it's probably always a bad trip.
Pate

Trad climber
Mar 17, 2010 - 08:08pm PT
I saw 372 Grateful Dead and Jerry Garcia Band shows between '85 and '95.

Need I say more?
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
Topic Author's Reply - Mar 17, 2010 - 08:09pm PT
That stuff and giggly trips is probably more for young persons lacking
of any major responsibilities in life. Add responsibility with older age
and it's probably always a bad trip

Yeah, no sh#t, dude!

We're reflecting here. PAST TENSE!!!! WHAT WE USED TO DO!@!!!
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
Topic Author's Reply - Mar 17, 2010 - 08:12pm PT
I knew Pate was a head....

just sayin'!
BES1'st

climber
City of Orange, CA.
Mar 17, 2010 - 08:17pm PT
I watched Pink Floyd tracers at the Anaheim Stadium around 1978.
I did not eat during that show.

Later I normally always ate pizza with Canadian Bacon and Pineapple.
I think I tried mushrooms 1 or twice around 82 and once around 88 I
then stopped mushrooms and went back to the other toppings only
as I don't care for mushrooms.
skipt

Mountain climber
Washington
Mar 17, 2010 - 08:21pm PT
I saw 372 Grateful Dead and Jerry Garcia Band shows between '85 and '95.

Need I say more?


ROTFLMAO!!!

Go PATE go!!!


Skip
Skeptimistic

Mountain climber
Mar 17, 2010 - 08:22pm PT
Pate- I've heard it said that if you can remember the shows, then you probably weren't there...

Edit- probably should've put a smiley emoticon at the end of the sentence. Just messin' with you. ; )
Wayno

Big Wall climber
Seattle, WA
Mar 17, 2010 - 08:25pm PT
I would also preface any of my acid stories with a disclaimer similar to that of Bluey.

One of my favorite things to do was first, find some good clean acid. It makes all the difference in the world. Deadheads usually had the cleanest stuff. Then, on a moonless night, I would drive solo up to Castle Rock. In those days the park was closed at night but you could still park legally at the gate south of the main parking lot. The pitch blackness was awesome when tripping, and I knew of several caves that would resonate with the human voice, but that's not the real fun. Sooner or later, the rangers would see my vehicle and go up to Castle to check it out. I would grab a handful of rocks and climb up to the top and wait. The rangers would come up with lights and bullhorns looking for someone. At the top of Castle, if you lay down they can't see you from the bottom. Very quietly I would toss off the pebbles to various locations around the rock and sit and try not to laugh too hard. I did that about three times before all the signage for illegal overnight parking went up. Good times.
Bowser

Trad climber
Red River NM
Mar 17, 2010 - 08:26pm PT
My wife and I schroomed hard at the Pimps and Hoes party at Taos Ski Valley back in 2003 or so. We just stood there amongst all the partiers tripping on the music, costumes, pictures on the walls.... There were two identical pictures on opposite corners of the room of a man in a derby hat holding a gun. Anywhere I was in the room the guy was pointing his gun at me......

Man, those things taste awefull!
jstan

climber
Mar 17, 2010 - 08:36pm PT
I have never used any enhancers because I find the world wonderfully interesting as it is. Every moment is an adventure. I want to be there to see it.

In the 60's and 70's to my knowledge none of my climbing friends were into it either. Definitely not seriously. One climber who was just really enjoyable to be around had tried acid for a time but had quit cold. He said the stuff is bad. He said using it started to do damage.

I have not followed this field over the years. But it increasingly appears he may have been right.
mike m

Trad climber
black hills
Mar 17, 2010 - 08:37pm PT
Bluering were you tripping when you wrote this?
Pate

Trad climber
Mar 17, 2010 - 08:42pm PT
Pate- I've heard it said that if you can remember the shows, then you probably weren't there...

I'm a walking encyclopedia..... ask me for any set list and I'll regurgitate it for you.

I managed to keep all but about 15 of my stubs too, I posted a bunch of classics on the DeadHead thread.

Some people became experts at keeping their sh#t together.
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
Mar 17, 2010 - 08:42pm PT
Was given mushrooms before a ski marathon...i thought they were rancid dried pineapples and devoured them trying to get a quick snack before the race....had a 101 body temp....part way thru the race i began laughing uncontrolably and couldn't continue....I stopped next to this guy named Dennis Miller whom i was suddenly on the same wavelength with....the next day i was healed and went bouldering and was trying to make the last move to the top of a moderate problem and every time i'd start to step up , a raven would dive bomb me....the bird finally landed nearby and watched me as i quickly escaped...never again.....! rj
Pate

Trad climber
Mar 17, 2010 - 08:46pm PT
R.Crumb Joplin sheet, signed by Leary. It'll only cost you a cool $7,500

Gary

climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
Mar 17, 2010 - 08:52pm PT
Back in '78 or so, my brother and I dropped some purple microdot. We had started playing backgammon that year pretty seriously with some other loser friends. I was checking out backgammon books from the city library that had not been checked out since the '30s. We were into our backgammon.

We were playing as the acid took effect. One of us rolled the dice, the game being close to ending. We looked at the roll.

"Hey, if I play this move, I win. If I play this move, the game changes against me."

And so the game went the other way, all the men scurried around to the other side. One of us was about to win and rolled. We looked at the dice.

"Hey, if I play this move, I win. If I play this move, the game changes against me."

And so the game went the other way, all the men scurried around to the other side. One of us was about to win and rolled. We looked at the dice.

So, you all know where this is going? We played one game all night, the men flowing back and forth, back and forth. And we had total control.
Wayno

Big Wall climber
Seattle, WA
Mar 17, 2010 - 09:06pm PT
Effin eh, Pate, that is shweet. Only 7.5K? I work with a gal whose father is good buds with S. Clay Wilson. She has several signed originals of "Checkered Demon" and "Captain Pissgums". She has no clue of their value or why.
Captain...or Skully

Social climber
mun jae upso yo
Mar 17, 2010 - 09:08pm PT
Pffft.
We mostly tripped in the open sea.....When you know you're 6000 miles from shore.
You're sailin' around. A slight distraction? Sure.....Count me in.
I do like the shrooms better, though.
Just another flava.
Wayno

Big Wall climber
Seattle, WA
Mar 17, 2010 - 09:16pm PT
Shrooms eh? Anyone ever try the fabled Amanita Muscaria? I found and did them in Tuolumne Meadows once. Talk about a mystical journey... Whew. The next day I went looking for more and found a bunch, but somehow I never got the courage to do them again. Nothing like LSD or psylocybin.
Gary

climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
Mar 17, 2010 - 09:18pm PT
S. Clay Wilson? Now that's one strange dude.

Star Eyed Stella:

http://www.comicartfans.com/GalleryPiece.asp?Piece=149887&GSub=22734
TripL7

Trad climber
san diego
Mar 17, 2010 - 09:39pm PT
"I haven't done TONS of acid thank God, just enough to come close to seeing God on several occasions."

More like you came close to seeing Satan.

God/Jesus, does not use mind altering substances to bring you closer to Him.

You are deceiving yourself and others Bluey, you are fortunate to have not had a bad result(as in really bad result).



drljefe

climber
Old Pueblo, AZ
Mar 17, 2010 - 09:39pm PT
I dosed in 8th grade and had a way~too~heavy trip to th B side of Combat Rock.
Swore I'd never do it again.


Way to redeem yourself Bluerring!
t*r

Trad climber
☆•*¨*•.¸¸❤❤¸.•*¨*•☆
Mar 17, 2010 - 09:43pm PT
i wouldn't try it it (altho right now i wouldn't have tried it) unless i was with someone i really really trusted and we could run around in the giant redwoods or by the sea on a sunshine ocean day :)
Rokjox

Trad climber
Boys I'dunno
Mar 17, 2010 - 09:52pm PT
yeah, being around bummers is hard enough when you are sober.





777, try reading the research on the topic.

Many of the crazier episodes of peoples dealing with God could very easily have come from natural forms of these very drugs. Especially grains with ergot rotting in bins. EVERY culture has used drugs to envision God. Every culture.

Many now think that alcohol may have been THE single substance that lead us into cities, agriculture and science.


What makes YOU think you know how God does his work? You a little arrogant perhaps? Or does God REALLY consult you in how he does his work?



So tell, me? How DOES he rationalize putting the drugs here, and making our bodies susceptible to them if they aren't meant to be studied and used? After all, it was GOD's work, creating the universe. Satan CANNOT create such work on his own, or so I have been assured by the heavy Christian thinkers I have read. I have always wondered how so many preachers and theologians can know so much about how such things are done by such advanced beings as God and Satan. Maybe you can now tell me how its all been ascertained?
arsenalcrater

Trad climber
Vista, CA
Mar 17, 2010 - 09:59pm PT
I will never touch the sh#t again, but I had a blast while I could hang. The last time I took acid, I took four blotters of somewhat decent sh#t, but I crashed hard, and my girlfriend of the day was ready to call the paramedics; I slept for almost 48 hours straight afterwards. Anyways...

...the first time was in 1984 while living in San Francisco. We were going to go see Metallica at the Mabuahy Gardens (anyone remember the Mab, Rock on Broadway, The Stone? Those were the days!). Anyways, we had the inside that "The Four Horsemen" were Metallica, and there was no way we were going to miss the show. The only question was, what to do.

One of the gang got a hold of some acid. Anyways, it was four-way window pane, and I took four (sixteen total, but you know...) hits as my first trip. Well, sixteen hits of some pretty clean sh#t along with intense underground thrash metal led to a very powerful experience. It would be extremely intense to be able to pass along this trip on to someone else, and I wish I could have bottled it.

I imagine many of you very fine folks had great experiences during your hippie regime and your summer of love. Imagine that you were a teenager during the trash metal revolution of the 80's living in San Francisco and experiencing the Bay Area Trash revolution of the time while on tripping on LSD. It was not as well know or widespread, but it was insane nontheless.
Dr.Sprock

Boulder climber
Sprocketville
Mar 17, 2010 - 10:14pm PT
i used to deal shrooms for a while, eat em every day.

acid and shrooms and the electric guitar, maybe a keg of beer,

got chased by the cops on acid, which is the worst trip in the world.

got away by running like hell, thank you cross country training.

Mr Garnel, a bald hi school chem teacher, his face started melting one time.

bad sh#t to get attacked by a mtn lion while your on acid,

hey ring, i torched my shoulder last weekend, so could not climb.

think it is coming back for the shindig, almost canceled out,
Jan

Mountain climber
Okinawa, Japan
Mar 17, 2010 - 10:20pm PT
I knew plenty of climbers who took psychedelics back in the '60's and 70's, including peyote, which no one has yet mentioned. In fact many of these climbers and myself as well, did our experiments before psychedelics were made illegal in 1966.

Some got interested in spiritual disciplines as a result, and some of us discovered that intense meditation can produce the same colorful perceptions with out the bad trips. God is not LSD or serotonin, but those chemicals and others, do give one a glimpse into something so intense and beautiful, they have the potential to shake one's world view forever and provide the impetus to work on a part of our mind that our materialist society knows almost nothing about. Working on the unconscious is called purifying the soul in older traditions and done in order to make space for the truly spiritual.

Tripping for the fun of it, will show you the nature of your unconscious which is not always fun, but not lead to any lasting positive changes.
TripL7

Trad climber
san diego
Mar 17, 2010 - 10:22pm PT
Rokjoc- "777 try reading the research on the subject."

When i was at San Jose State U.(92-95)I did a paper for my undergrad degree in Occupational Therapy on LSD and used Post-Doctorate work by several noted Prof's from SFSU and Berkley. Also by Dr. David Smith(founder of the HA Free Clinic). All I can say is that i was fully submersed in their work and findings, along with T. Leary et al.

I was a part of that decade(60's)having graduated from highschool in 1968 in So. California.

Rokjok- "What makes YOU think you know how God does His work?

I was assuming bluering worships the same God that I came to know as an 8 yr. old(R. Catholic)! His name is JESUS!!

You can read about Him in the Holy Bible!

I don't consider myself arrogant, just acquainted with the subject of God the Holy Spirit through reading about Him as He commands us to do.
Dr.Sprock

Boulder climber
Sprocketville
Mar 17, 2010 - 10:23pm PT
it the exteriorization you are after.

but not too much! controled exteriorization, which leads to enlightenment.

they had an Altered States of Conciousness class at UC Davis back in 73.

unfortunately, there was no Lab with that class.

Mighty Hiker

climber
Vancouver, B.C.
Mar 17, 2010 - 10:31pm PT
Q What did the Deadhead say when the acid stopped working?

A Man, that music is bad.

Never tried the stuff myself, though I've had some interesting effects from anaesthetics and painkillers when in hospital.

Somewhere I read that many of the effects from LSD are visual in nature. They (not sure who "they" is) gave some test subjects LSD and a placebo, and then into isolation chambers. Presumably with some sort of hidden observation, in case something went wrong. Those who'd received LSD, in utter darkness and stillness, experienced relatively little. Apart presumably from the brain rewiring part - the drug must still do that part.
Pate

Trad climber
Mar 17, 2010 - 10:56pm PT
Mighty, take a tip from Bob Dylan.

Don't criticize what you can't understand.






Way to wax prolific on something you have zero f*#king experience with.
Mighty Hiker

climber
Vancouver, B.C.
Mar 17, 2010 - 11:18pm PT
I wasn't criticizing, merely teasing a bit by repeating an old joke. And commenting (briefly) about the effects of LSD. Assuming that use of LSD is a prerequisite to 'understanding' it, I wouldn't (and didn't) claim to understand it. But that doesn't seem a reason not to add a bit to the discussion.

Please check http://supertopo.com/climbers-forum/585940/Albert_Hofmann_RIP
Jim Brennan

Trad climber
Vancouver Canada
Mar 17, 2010 - 11:35pm PT
Alcohol = last refuge of a scoundrel..........
Wayno

Big Wall climber
Seattle, WA
Mar 17, 2010 - 11:40pm PT
Colonel Doug was a regular at the the restaurant I work at for years. He died recently after a long and interesting life. He was an Officer in WWII, Korea and in the states during Nam. He was a man of honor and character that one would never forget. He told me the story one night of how he took part in early army LSD experiments. What I remember is that Doug said it sure was strange and got through it o.k. but a few others in the program didn't fare as well.

I guess some folks just aren't wrapped tight enough to deal with what the drug can do to you. Personally, I have seen more people "lose it" on other drugs more than I have seen on acid. Shrooms is probably number one in my experience. The scariest trip I have had was on shrooms. I was tripping too heavy and heard a gram of Niacin would bring you down. I didn't hear about the flushing from niacin. It scared the crap out of me. Young fool I was.
TripL7

Trad climber
san diego
Mar 18, 2010 - 12:49am PT
Rokjox- "Or does God REALLY consult you in how He does His work?"

Yes He "REALLY does consult not only me, but anyone who desires to know Him. How, YOU may ask? Through His Holy Word, the Bible.

BTW, my origional post was to bluey, in regards to his proclaiming to be a Christian, and God does ask us Christians to rebuke or exhort our fellow believers in Christ. So I felt compelled to do so.

Rokjox- "Meant to be studied and used."

Studied and used by MD.'s(such as morphine)KNOTT ABUSED!!

I go by the Word of God. And I assumed bluey did also.

What you go by is your choice Rok!

BTW, there are poison mushrooms out there(always sad to here about poor migrant workers who come up to the US to make a better life for their family's and find a bunch of mushrooms up in Northern Cali or somewhere and cook up a bunch and die). Why? I don't know why! We live in a fallen world, and there is another very powerful spirtual charecter that you mentioned that hates the human race. He is the Destroyer and does this through desception, makes bad look good.

One thing I am certain of is that Satan deceives with drugs by getting people to think that this is as good as it gets. Or that they are experiencing some higher spiritual plane/heaven on earth. It is a lie.

But this is what the Judeo/Christian Bible say's, and you evidently go by some other source/belief system.

And have already made up your mind...so be it. I was just responding to bluey anyway.

Edit: Like I said, I was just responding to bluey's opening statement about getting closer to God/Jesus(you do believe Jesus is God, right bluey??) through acid...Really bluey!!

BTW, acid was fifty(50)times stronger back in the 60's compared to today, according to all the studies that were being conducted by the aforementioned practitioners(up-thread). The 60's were an experience alright, even if you went to a concert comparatively sober. Guy's and gals runinig around barking like dogs etc. I was there...were you???



Wayno

Big Wall climber
Seattle, WA
Mar 18, 2010 - 12:54am PT
simmer down...
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Mar 18, 2010 - 01:06am PT
There are plenty of jesus threads and damn few acid ones, let's not go mucking it up now...
Lambone

Ice climber
Ashland, Or
Mar 18, 2010 - 01:15am PT
I'll check back in after summer tour.
tradchick

Trad climber
Vermont
Mar 18, 2010 - 04:34am PT
I took anything I could get my hands on for a few years when I was in high school in the mid 70's. Mostly acid, supplemented with mushrooms, peyote, mescaline....at least 2 or 3 times a week.

We'd go out and just walk around and watch buildings melt etc.

Used to sit in 3rd year french lab, mesmerized by the woodgrain in the desk.

Remember trying to sit down with the fam for dinner and my food crawling off my plate. My parents were clueless.

Had 1 bad trip when I was 17, saw hideous things, never touched the stuff again.

Norwegian

Trad climber
Placerville, California
Mar 18, 2010 - 05:55am PT
i have a piece of shite ol truck that i adore and roll proudly.
i've used it for scaffolding, bike jumps, heavy equipment, a crane, and other burdensome activities.
she shows wear for the better.
a some point the hood got caved in and crinkled from scampering feet.

the funniest thing now happens, though.
when i arrive at my destination, and turn off the engine,
within 30 seconds, my hood reacts to the differential change in heat above and below it, and in doing so issues this most serene 'gong' type sound. every time i kill the engine.

i swear that all the dents around the hood tuned this special noise to perfection.

once i showed up to a party, and all the hoooligans were milling about a fire, in silence beneath the stars. i pulled into the vicinity, turned off the engine, and waited for her song.
the next moments, supertopo, you'll have to author for me.
Timid TopRope

Social climber
Paradise, CA
Mar 18, 2010 - 06:02am PT
I'm convinced that psychedelics are the foundation of all religions.

The documentary radical is speaking of about the CIA acid experiments is also in book form, "Storming Heaven"

Another great read on the subject, "Breaking Open the Mind". Sorry I can't come up with the author's names.

Here's a link to one of many tripster projects my brother has contributed to. Some of his blotter acid is in the NY MOMA collection.


http://www.philiptaaffe.info/Interviews_Statements/Tomaselli-Smith-Taaffe.php

It should bore you to tears.
Timid TopRope

Social climber
Paradise, CA
Mar 18, 2010 - 06:48am PT
Hilarious animated short.

Dock Ellis's no hitter on LSD 1970.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_vUhSYLRw14

Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
Why'djya leave the ketchup on the table?
Mar 18, 2010 - 06:55am PT
The high was never ever worth the incredible depression of coming down. Some of my darkest moments, bleakest thoughts and most cynical notions came from the depths of such depression.

It would take me DAYS to get over it.

Same thing kept me from becoming dependent on alcohol... cannot STAND a hangover.

The giggles and shimmering lights were never worth that... not even remotely.

I understand I am not the only one to react this way to pysch drugs. They really f*#k with my brain chemistry in a negative way.

DMT
Prod

Trad climber
Dodge Sprinter Dreaming
Mar 18, 2010 - 07:00am PT
I saw 372 Grateful Dead and Jerry Garcia Band shows between '85 and '95.

I held you in higher regard. When we meet, please don't ever schubby in my presence.

Prod.
Rhodo-Router

Gym climber
Green Cove slabbage BITD!
Mar 18, 2010 - 08:13am PT


Dock Ellis is the MAN!
TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Mar 18, 2010 - 08:14am PT
"I haven't done TONS of acid thank God, just enough to come close to seeing God on several occasions."

More like you came close to seeing Satan.

Have seen both,

and know the difference.



Pate

Trad climber
Mar 18, 2010 - 08:22am PT
I've never shubby'd in my life.

I've never been held in high regard either.
kunlun_shan

Mountain climber
SF, CA
Mar 18, 2010 - 08:58am PT
"Those who'd received LSD, in utter darkness and stillness, experienced relatively little."

John Lilly, in his book "Center of the Cyclone: Looking Into Inner Space" describes his consciousness research using LSD in isolation tanks, and a LOT happened. Fascinating read.
locker

Social climber
Desert
Mar 18, 2010 - 09:12am PT


"got chased by the cops on acid, which is the worst trip in the world."...

I got a "GUD" one fer ya...




Was out late one night fuking around and bored...

Took a "HIT" and started walking (after CURFEW) towards town...

Wasn't really getting off yet when a COP pulls up...

Didn't have my wallet and kept my mouth pretty much SHUT...

So he stuck me in the backseat of the CRUISER and took me in...

After placing me in a cell (I was only 15) to myself...

Man...

It started to come on like there was no tomorrow...

After HOURS of having one hell of an INTERESTING "trip"...

I FINALLY disclosed my name and address and the Cops sent for my Parents...




They WEREN'T real happy when they picked me up...
Karl Baba

Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
Mar 18, 2010 - 09:46am PT
In the 60's and 70's to my knowledge none of my climbing friends were into it either. Definitely not seriously. One climber who was just really enjoyable to be around had tried acid for a time but had quit cold. He said the stuff is bad. He said using it started to do damage.

I have not followed this field over the years. But it increasingly appears he may have been right.

I'm sure you would be more circumspect in your offerings on a subject less taboo or where you were aware of what you don't know.

The inventor of LSD recently died, after hundreds of trips, at over 100 years old. His son had died long earlier in his early 50s from alcoholism. There is no fatal known dose of LSD. It is not physiologically addictive and not known to be psychologically addictive either. Studies showing it could be a miracle treatment for certain psychological challenges like alcoholism were shut down by the government.

If you research the proven physiological/neurological damage caused by LSD, you'll find almost nothing...nothing! Most the pills in your medicine chest are worse.

Problem is, LSD opens the doors inside that our twisted psyches are afraid to peer within. That can spook you and our weak minds misinterpret what we find. It's one of the most powerful drugs ever discovered and yet people think to experiment at a party or something. You can drink a glass of wine in church or a bottle in the gutter.

It's not for that. It's a tool for knowing what is inside you and dissecting your illusions. (not creating new ones)

Peace

Karl
Rokjox

Trad climber
Boys I'dunno
Mar 18, 2010 - 09:57am PT
777:

Cool. Then you MUST have become familiar with the body of work mentioned above.


So WHAT did you think of Leary's attempts to create a "retreat" or rehab center in Mexico based on his work as a Psychiatrist? His reported success and recidivism rate have never been appraoched by any program I have ever read of. (In fact, most reported figures of rehab programs are so close to neutral as to be insignificant. By this I mean that they show little improvement over the long term than those in the control populations that receive NO rehab).


What do/did you think of the rating system developed by J. Lilly? (My opinion was that I had never managed to ever get higher than about his second or third level, out of about a dozen.) Do you feel that they were "real" experiences?

As to rewiring the brain, I think that is a significant falsehood, designed to bring fear enough to the masses that they would support the criminalization of this class of drugs. TOTAL bullsh#t. A TON of people BITD used LSD in particular, and almost everyone came out of the experience ultimately little changed from how they went in, other than feeling they had had important insights, in some cases. FAMOUS people, multi-millionaires. Doctors, entertainers, a LOAD of professional people. They remained sucessful, if they were sucessful when they tried it, and MANY continued to make significant achievement long after the end of their "experiements". LSD "trips" were on the verge of becoming (or WAS) a burgeoning industry that employed "professional" guides, who were advertising in the papers for clients.

It was a mass movement among the cognoscenti, the "hip" thing to do.





Would you care to bring yourself back into the conversation? I am not too hot on your apparent version of Jesus as "God", and I am well aware of the Christian Bible, having read it myself, but if you must use that ancient and quite static document to justify your opinions, well, please do so, I can take it.

(But using the Bible to claim that God speaks to you regularly is over the top.) You might as well use Lewis Carroll ... at best you can claim that the bible speaks to you the antiquated ideas of a few dozen Bishops and Popes, all long dead ...)
Robb

Social climber
The Greeley Triangle
Mar 18, 2010 - 10:06am PT
Not to drift too much, but since we're on the vitamin L topic I am curious about the following:

How many trips have you taken?

What was your favorite type; blotter, barrel, window pane,etc?
Outside

Trad climber
Truckee
Mar 18, 2010 - 10:12am PT
Karl Said:

"If you research the proven physiological/neurological damage caused by LSD, you'll find almost nothing...nothing! Most the pills in your medicine chest are worse"

Haha....what a bunch of BS....no offense Karl...this is absurd!

It's all about the dose not the drug.

Ask any of the Deadheads like me who have numerous friends that are permanently messed up from too much LSD...too many shrooms...

Toxicology is all about the "Dose" no pun intended...
Josh Higgins

Trad climber
San Diego
Mar 18, 2010 - 10:17am PT
I just lead the Acid Crack on preplaced gear in Joshua Tree last Sunday. Bitchin line with some truly amazing movement. Now I need to clean it up and do it while placing gear. That's the closest to Acid I've ever come.

Josh
locker

Social climber
Desert
Mar 18, 2010 - 10:21am PT

"Haha....what a bunch of BS....no offense Karl...this is absurd!

It's all about the dose not the drug.

Ask any of the Deadheads like me who have numerous friends that are permanently messed up from too much LSD...too many shrooms..."
...




Were your "Friends" ONLY taking LSD during those concerts???...

Or were OTHER drugs or ETOH involved???...


Also...

Karl was speaking SPECIFICALLY about LSD...

I NOTICE in the ABOVE that you also include "SHROOMS"...

Sort of makes YOUR FRIENDS "Experiments" NOT VALID...






Wayno

Big Wall climber
Seattle, WA
Mar 18, 2010 - 10:39am PT
The first time I saw, "A Clockwork Orange," I was dosing. Hoh Man! The first time I saw, "Star Wars," ditto. As I was coming out of the the theater, my buddy tossed a frisbee up in the air and it was coming down right for my head. I didn't see it and at the last second after he yelled, I turned and caught it inches from my face and calmly said, "Use the force, Luke." We laughed for what seems an hour, but probably at least a solid five minutes or two.
Outside

Trad climber
Truckee
Mar 18, 2010 - 10:57am PT
"Were your "Friends" ONLY taking LSD during those concerts???...

Or were OTHER drugs or ETOH involved???...


Also...

Karl was speaking SPECIFICALLY about LSD...

I NOTICE in the ABOVE that you also include "SHROOMS"...

Sort of makes YOUR FRIENDS "Experiments" NOT VALID..."

Both.....One friend was just on mushies for an extended period of time...he's gone....never will recover..
2 or 3 other people I know just LSD.....they are also messed up mentally and they will tell you that it sucks because they can't think right anymore...



paul roehl

Boulder climber
california
Mar 18, 2010 - 10:59am PT
Haoma, ergot, wine, acid, peyote, mushrooms, sensory deprivation even fasting, religious experience seems to tease psychosis in its effort to find "god."

It's an interesting relationship.

Karl Baba

Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
Mar 18, 2010 - 11:01am PT
"If you research the proven physiological/neurological damage caused by LSD, you'll find almost nothing...nothing! Most the pills in your medicine chest are worse"

Haha....what a bunch of BS....no offense Karl...this is absurd!

It's all about the dose not the drug.

Ask any of the Deadheads like me who have numerous friends that are permanently messed up from too much LSD...too many shrooms...

Toxicology is all about the "Dose" no pun intended...

You can say "absurd" or "BS" all you like but give me a credible link that points to any significant physiological or neurological damage seriously linked to LSD. Should be easy. The CIA and the military studied it and people have been using it for many years.

There are plenty of messed up people who have tried and not tried everything. Most of us are messed up and don't know. Some took LSD and now they know! That's another matter, much like not letting 11 year olds get married or have sex. It's not for everyone.

Peace

Karl
Wayno

Big Wall climber
Seattle, WA
Mar 18, 2010 - 11:07am PT
You want to talk scary, then mention Jimsonweed or Datura. I met a guy years ago that told me he and two friends tried it. One died, the other was institutionalized for years and this dude probably should have been also.
Quasimodo

Trad climber
CA
Mar 18, 2010 - 12:51pm PT
I used LSD about twenty times in the late 70s. I thought LSD would answer many nagging questions; Who I am I? What is my purpose in life? What is true spirituality? What is reality?

Finally, one fine day I took about 6 times the normal dose. I had an out-of-body experience that seemed to mimic the death experince. I was surprised that the feeling was "warm" and appealing.

I quit after that experience realizing it was a complete dead end. I found that looking inward created isolation. I felt alone and miserable doing drugs.

For me connecting with people makes life fulfilling. Looking inward just creates despair.

John Lilly did some studies that showed the same LSD effects in an isolation tank. The isolation tank experince does not require two days to feel normal again.
Rokjox

Trad climber
Boys I'dunno
Mar 18, 2010 - 01:02pm PT
Lilly reported DRINKING PURE LSD from a BOTTLE and not even measuring the doses any longer towards the end of his experiments. SANDOZ LABORATORIES PURE LSD! Ounces of it, not micrograms!




There is no known lethal dose, and it has been TRIED. Tolerance (which few people have ever really been able to develop due to not having the kind of quantities that Lilly had access to) removes a lot of the effects. Eventually, LSD has no effect of much note to such individuals.

So much for "rewiring" the brain ...
locker

Social climber
Desert
Mar 18, 2010 - 01:02pm PT


"they are also messed up mentally and they will tell you that it sucks because they can't think right anymore..."...




NOT saying this is true for your friends...

BUT...

a LOT of "Mental Illness" manifests with AGE and over time...

It's POSSIBLE they were headed that-a-way, ANYWHO...







happiegrrrl

Trad climber
New York, NY
Mar 18, 2010 - 01:17pm PT
In Joshua Tree a few years ago, someone told me that BITD people would be tripping on stuff, and this was also the time of the Carlos Castenada book popularity(I tried to read it; couldn't keep interested. Same with the Trilogy of the Rings). But I did read the Lilly book mentioned above - I was fascinated with the sensory deprivation tanks. Would love to try it out someday(without acid).

Anyway - so this guy tells me that BITD, there was some bit in the Castenada story about being able to run at superfast speed and actually go "through" solid objects, and that the Stoners would be tripping and decide to try this running. So they'd take off as fast as possible, running through HV and all would be great for a bit and then....SMACK! Harpooned by a Yucca. hahahahah

This story was told to me as we were headed back from my first(and so far only) Chasm of Doom voyage. We got back to HVCG and stopped at one of the campsites to continue talking and partying, but after a while I was over that, since I don't drink and everyone else was definitely do so.

So, I headed back to my own campsite by myself. Suddenly, out of the corner of my eye, I caught a flash of energy. I am NOT lying! Someone was running through the middle of the big loop of HVCG at warp speed. Just like the story I had just been told.

And they didn't hit a yucca.
jstan

climber
Mar 18, 2010 - 01:36pm PT
Despite various assurances that persons without medical training may safely dose themselves with these various substances, I remain unpersuaded. Just consider all of the side effects now being found for many of the widely used and FDA approved drugs. After many millions of doses. And as for drug interactions, we are only just beginning to catalog those, much less understand them.

There are alternative explanations for the phenomenon of finding "new realities" via psychedelic drugs. These questions may begin to receive systematic study probably only after the drugs have become commercially exploited - if then.

I believe it was Jan who suggested new states can be reached without the use of drugs. It clearly is more difficult but possible. The logic for staying organic till you know what you are doing with good statistical significance seems clear to this observer.

Others, of course, are free to do as they choose.

It would be helpful if such experiments were certain not subsequently to burden the taxpayer. I hate to sound like a conservative but there it is.
Pate

Trad climber
Mar 18, 2010 - 01:36pm PT
I'll post a pic of the Stealie belt buckle Owsley made and gave to me in 92 when I can dig it out.

He gave them to all his employees.
rockermike

Trad climber
Berkeley
Mar 18, 2010 - 01:41pm PT
the Beetles seem to know something about this subject.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A7F2X3rSSCU
Rokjox

Trad climber
Boys I'dunno
Mar 18, 2010 - 01:44pm PT
Pate, you are a wonder to me ...

A #u%!^& wonder.









I don't suppose you'd sell that belt buckle?




I might offer that if somebody wants a fast, safer and low cost alternative to learn what the head is capable of portraying to themselves, might try a quick bong hit of Salvia (sp?). I think its still legal even ... Its not a full on trip by any means, but it IS a brief taste of the potential experience.

3-4 minutes and the "trip" is over. Wait it out and you'll end up being as dull and boring as ever. Just sit it out, walking around will likely take some practice to those not already experienced with the coordination and concentration it takes to manage such things while tripping. Best to not try at first.
drljefe

climber
Old Pueblo, AZ
Mar 18, 2010 - 04:36pm PT
I did dose again, after the heavy trip as a too~youngster, figuring if LSD could take me to such scary places, it surely could transport me someplace beautiful as well. It did, many times., and was the catalyst for positive changes in my life.
Then, after not doing it for years and years, figuring I was done~ that I'd seen the highest highs and lowest lows, I dosed again and went surfing on a perfect day. Best...thing...ever.

As we mature, so do our minds. If you think you've experienced it all, think again. You are a far different person than you were when you took it in the past., so the trip will also be very different.
Now, I am a proponent for
"cleaning the slate".
You never know...

I hate to enter the controversy fray, but...

As far as "seeing god" goes,
I read about the original founder of the Calvary Chapel (born again megachurch). He was a "Jesus freak" involved in tha Laguna Beach scene BITD. After an LSD experience reinforced his faith, he began performing baptisms in the ocean at Corona Del Mar and was known for having a powerful presence that really attracted other freaks. He later came out as a homosexual, and much later died of AIDS.
This dude has totally been written out of the history of Calvary Chapel. Sad and lame, but hen again would the CC be as powerful if all he followers knew that history?

Instead of "seeing god",
I think "religious experience" sums it up better. Something so transformational and ineffable...






101 Grateful Dead shows later...


bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
Topic Author's Reply - Mar 18, 2010 - 05:44pm PT
The 'seeing God' reference was just a play on words. I hate having to spell sh#t out for y'all....

Yeah, I've only 'tripped' about 10-12 times. I think it's the kind of substance to be used sparingly. Once a year, as me and my buddy used to do. It should also only be done with people you know well, or are very comfortable with. I almost always dosed with the same guy. We would have annual (sometimes bi-annual) fishing trips where the goal was tripping one night.

We had both come to conclusions that dropping was most pleasant in an isolated surrounding where 'the law' wasn't around and where you had almost non-existent contact with others.

So one of my most memorable trips, after we had the sh#t dialed in, was to take my buddy's boat out to Don Pedro Reservoir. We launched the boat, parked his rig, and dropped on our way out to an obscure cove of the lake.

When we found a sweet spot we baited up the poles, tossed 'em out, and it kicked it. He had the seats that extend out so you can lay down horizontally comfortably. So we just lay there staring up, watching the star-filled sky.

Occasionally I'd try to watch my line on my pole for activity, but eveytime I looked at it, it was a spider-web of lines (traces).

We'd arrived at about midnight. We stayed up tripping hard on the Berkeley sh#t we scored all night.

What was fascinating, was I could actually see the motion of the galaxy around us. I could watch constellation move over time. I could see the movement of our orbit. It was fascinating. It seemed like 2 hours but was more like 6. And watching dawn come was weird too.

We caught no fish that day. But that was probably the best trip I'd ever had. Just too hard to explain acid-trips in words....

Jan

Mountain climber
Okinawa, Japan
Mar 18, 2010 - 07:25pm PT
One constant in the various Hindu and Buddhist retreats I have gone to over the years among people who grew up in the '60's and 70's, is that the people there got interested in the spiritual life as a result of taking psychedelics.

Another constant over the years, is that the leaders of these organizations require their serious followers to give up psychedelics, channeling, and hypnotism when they are initiated to the higher levels so that they will be able to distinguish between their own minds and the effects of those outside themselves.

Richard Alpert, Timothy Leary's collaborator at Harvard, later known as Ram Das, describes his guru in India telling him that the mind can control even powerful drugs like LSD (after Richard badgered him to take the drug to see how wonderful it was and if it related to what the guru was describing meditation could produce).The guru took a huge hit of pure stuff and according to Richard, showed no signs of being affected at all.

This seems to back up what has been said earlier, that either psychedelics taken properly or meditation, can help a person clear out their unconscious. It may also indicate that in the process of living improperly (accumulating bad karma, having bad karma done to us), we impede the flow of our own natural brain chemistry and that the drugs and meditation flush it out and leave us at best, in our own natural God/evolution intended state. The Tibetan system of meditation is called Vajrayana, meaning it is a hard and brilliant (vajra means lightning bolt) but also a dangerous path requiring a spiritual director who has been through it before.

Then there is the Zen saying, "When I began to meditate, mountains were mountains and rivers were rivers. After I had meditated awhile, nothing was as it seemed. After I had meditated a long time, mountains were again mountains, and rivers rivers".
Eric Beck

Sport climber
Bishop, California
Mar 18, 2010 - 07:29pm PT
Two well known climbers back in the 60s did two El Cap routes in one week. After the second climb, on the summit, they each took 500 ug (a lot) and hardly felt it.
Eric Beck

Sport climber
Bishop, California
Mar 18, 2010 - 07:40pm PT
There have been experiments done on the web building of spiders given various psychoactive drugs. Here is one summary:
http://www.cannabis.net/weblife.html
Jan

Mountain climber
Okinawa, Japan
Mar 18, 2010 - 07:41pm PT
Two well known climbers back in the 60s did two El Cap routes in one week. After the second climb, on the summit, they each took 500 ug (a lot) and hardly felt it.


This would seem to verify the body-mind connection spoken of in meditation circles and also validate from the evolutionary point of view, that most of modern man's ills come from not living the life our evolution intended, with lots of exercise and mental challenge.
Pate

Trad climber
Mar 18, 2010 - 07:44pm PT
LSD exposes the intricate connectivity of all things.
Elcapinyoazz

Social climber
Redlands
Mar 18, 2010 - 07:54pm PT
The story about Pickard, one of the few guys making it in the 90s and the bust in 2000 (and subsequent huge drop in supply/availability) is fascinating.

They had a giant de-com'd nuclear missle silo and compound site in Kansas.
There was a Rolling Stone article about it, you can read here:


http://www.scribd.com/doc/8345280/Wilkinson-The-Acid-King-Pickard-LSD-Bust-Rolling-Stone-Mag-2001
drunkenmaster

Social climber
santa rosa
Mar 18, 2010 - 07:58pm PT
my friend marcos (the first person i ever climbed with) and i back in high school (before we ever climbed) had heard that taking 1 hit of acid on 30 different occasions (or something like that, its been awhile) would make you certifiably insane - - so we tried it! the first 30 days (or so) of high school were spent TriPpiN!! so am i insane? or was i already to even try!? i do think it and shrooms open your mind and body and heart to strong emotions and ideas and that is priceless. but like anything too much or the wrong dose at the wrong time could take you in the wrong direction and give you a bad trip - bad trip = no fun. weed is good for me now. and of course booze but look out for that, its a cheap dirty high.
Jan

Mountain climber
Okinawa, Japan
Mar 18, 2010 - 07:59pm PT
What strikes me about the spider web photos Eric posted is that the normal drug free spider, the one on hash, and the one on LSD all produced similar webs compared to the spiders on mescaline and caffeine. The differences between the three similar ones are perhaps, a metaphor for both drugs and life.

The normal spider spun an intricate web with numerous cross hatches - a very bourgoise and ordered thread, with everything linked and bound to everything else.

The thread on hash was very similar, only not as tightly bound to all its elements, and the job was not as complete.

The web spun by the spider on LSD went straight to the center, with no clinging or attachments along the way.

All three of these webs had a dense center and looked, especially the LSD web, like a kind of mandala, whereas the mescaline and especially the caffeine influenced thread, were spun at random with no center.The caffeine induced web in particular seemed to reflect modern life - energetic, distracted, randomly helter skelter, and no unifying center at all.

kingpin

climber
methdeathsto ca
Mar 18, 2010 - 08:08pm PT
I took some acid with some friends years ago, not the first time. We hung out for a while and the effects seemed very mild. I chocked it up to our doses being weak and went home (parents house) after enjoying the very mild trip with my friends. After getting out of my truck, driving on acid is dumb I know, I noticed something laying in the road. Upon closer inspection I determined it was a severed human thumb. Being unable to resist the urge to touch it I reached out. Just before I made contact, it jumped away. After nearly collapsing, I looked again only to discover that it was actually a toad!

Acid is a hell of a drug.
skipt

Mountain climber
Washington
Mar 18, 2010 - 08:11pm PT
Why is it every time I open this thread all the words and letters melt off the screen?


Skip
TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Mar 18, 2010 - 08:12pm PT
Very insightful Jan.

And squares with experience.
Jan

Mountain climber
Okinawa, Japan
Mar 18, 2010 - 08:17pm PT
Spider webs as mandalas and spider webs as psychological profiles - do I detect a unified field theory?
TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Mar 18, 2010 - 08:19pm PT
Well,

You may detect anthropomorphism.
TripL7

Trad climber
san diego
Mar 18, 2010 - 08:31pm PT
drljefe- "I read the origional founder..."

I "hate entering the fray" as a matter of fact, as of late I disdain it, but when false allegations etc are constantly springing up on this forum I try and correct them.

Chuck Smith started Calvary Chapel(1965)and is still alive and well. A married couple joined Calvary Chapel early on(after it had been in existence for several years)by the name of Lonnie Frisbee and I don't recall his wife's name. He was simply another member of the church that grew into what it is today.

He was a closet homosexual, and eventually died of aids around 1990. He left the church in the late seventies/early eighties.

There is no big cover-up/scandal, never was. And once again he was not an origional founder! GET YOUR STORY STRAIGHT! He was simply one of the early members of the church. He used acid once before he became a Christian, so what.

Chuck Smith still is the head pastor of Calvary Chapel in Costa Mesa. There are Calvary Chapel churches all over the world know.

Baptisms in the rivers and oceans have been going on for thousands of years, Jesus was baptised in the Jordan River.

Do a little research next time...eh. Althogh it is pretty typical of the world/media, no big surprise.



Skeptimistic

Mountain climber
Mar 18, 2010 - 08:36pm PT
I'm sure those web studies were carefully designed and controlled, not a result of some anti-drug agenda. Furthermore, it is impossible to correlate these types of animal studies with potential effects on humans. We can never have any idea what any drug does to the animal mind, especially when comparing insects to mammals.

Too much propaganda, not enough controlled science in this area.

Humans will always find some way to change their perception. It's just the curious nature of the beast. Read "Storming Heaven" by Jay Stevens for a brilliant synopsis of the history of psychedelics.

Also, LSD hasn't been available outside of research labs since The Bear got shut down. It is a very difficult synthesis and too many places to create mistakes that lead to what most people have been taking since the early 70s. It's not that it's laced with speed or strychnine or anything else, it's just poorly made. Go natural if you want the real thing.
TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Mar 18, 2010 - 08:39pm PT
Go natural if you want the real thing.

Heavenly Blue?

or

Pearly Gates?
TripL7

Trad climber
san diego
Mar 18, 2010 - 08:51pm PT
bluering- "The 'seeing God' reference was just a play on words. I hate to have to spell sh#t out for y'all."

And then you wonder why people call/single you out as a this and that. I guess they are having dificulty taking you seriously.

I think you just gave another lame excuse for your lack of credibility.



locker

Social climber
Desert
Mar 18, 2010 - 09:00pm PT

"bluering- "The 'seeing God' reference was just a play on words. I hate to have to spell sh#t out for y'all."

And then you wonder why people call/single you out as a this and that. I guess they are having dificulty taking you seriously.

I think you just gave another lame excuse for your lack of credibility."
...





Talk about, "keeping an eye on your CHRISTIAN Brother"...





Even from my AGNOSTIC, "on the FENCE", position...

That's a "GUD", CATCH...

LOL!!!...
TripL7

Trad climber
san diego
Mar 18, 2010 - 09:10pm PT
eric beck- "two climbers took..."

I was just thinking about the rumor in regards to Jim M. and that he had taken a hit of acid, or perhaps mescaline before his tragic end. Back in the 70's(early)this was the rumor circulating C4 back then.
MisterE

Social climber
Across Town From Easy Street
Mar 18, 2010 - 09:16pm PT
I did a quarter of a hit of 4-way windowpane, made by a family-friend chemist when I was 8 years old, I remember the exacto-blade cutting the crystal pyramid, cupping so the shards didn't pop away, the subsequent bobbing maple leaves that looked like chinese men as we sat on a hill overlooking the south fork of the Nooksack river. I remember being happy when I was scared that I was with people I loved and trusted.
I have celebrated this awakening, I have ranted about the indecency.

It remains.

Sorry Bluey, for getting pissed and re-hashing old crap. I guess the fact that you bug me shows I care.
Funny you should start this thread just after...

Peace, Erik
MisterE

Social climber
Across Town From Easy Street
Mar 18, 2010 - 09:21pm PT
Oh, and Ricky D was right! This picture belongs here!

photo not found
Missing photo ID#135918
JOEY.F

Social climber
sebastopol
Mar 18, 2010 - 09:56pm PT
My sister Cecelia worked the "Pillow Room" (Bad Trip room)at the Haight Free Clinic. She's probably got the goods on half you guys.
Best one-ledges above C4
Worst one- bathroom mirror.
Long ago...
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
Topic Author's Reply - Mar 18, 2010 - 10:30pm PT
I haven't done TONS of acid, thank God. Just enough to come close to seeing God on several occasions.

Tripl7, read above. It was a play on words, dude. I wasn't implying that it was LITERALLY a way to see God, just a way to see things we normally cannot see, or choose not to see.

Lighten up, dude. F*#k, you people are rough. lately. Talk about cabin fever!


EDIT: Yeah, Joey, STAY AWAY FROM THE MIRRORS!!!! Wow! Not good!
TripL7

Trad climber
san diego
Mar 18, 2010 - 10:51pm PT
Bluey- "It was a play on words."

OK dude, I understand that aspect of it.

blue- "you people are rough lately"

Well, just maybe, some of them "people" care about ya!

bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
Topic Author's Reply - Mar 18, 2010 - 11:12pm PT
Erik, I'm not sure if I understand your point. Elaborate.

Tripl7, it's cool. I just wanted clear things up.
Wayno

Big Wall climber
Seattle, WA
Mar 18, 2010 - 11:28pm PT
Some mirrors can be gateways, if your ready. If not, use them to shave.
KitKat

Trad climber
South Lake Tahoe
Mar 19, 2010 - 02:23am PT
Hey Pate,

Remember New Orleans 89? SICK....

Did you make it to any of the Grateful Dawg shows? SICK...

Glad to see some fellow heads on here!
drljefe

climber
Old Pueblo, AZ
Mar 19, 2010 - 07:44am PT
Trip7~
Sorry if I offened you. What I read about Lonnie Frisbee was presented as an "expose" in an OC paper years ago. I thought the story was fascinating but can see where members of CC would be bummed and dispute and want to dispute it. You obviously know way more about bornagain megachurch stuff, and I'm OK with that. I was not knocking you or your faith even though I still believe what I read about Frisbee.
One question, how is it being the "neighbor of the beast". THAT was a joke, see, smiley face ;~) !!!
Laguna Beach was, from what I've read and from old timers I know, was kind of the epicenter. The Brotherhood, the Hippie Mafia, Rainbow Bridge....

And Bluering, I only mentioned "seeing god" cuz others had honed in on it. No need to spell it out, for me at least.

It's all good!
Pate

Trad climber
Mar 19, 2010 - 07:47am PT
FYI, those pictures posted of the spider webs? Those are taken from a comedic short film, you can see it on YouTube. There is nothing real about them. The film is really funny.

Typical Internet stupidity, when farce becomes taken for reality at the whim of cut/paste.
drljefe

climber
Old Pueblo, AZ
Mar 19, 2010 - 08:10pm PT
Road trips
and
paper strips!

BUMP
Elcapinyoazz

Social climber
Redlands
Mar 19, 2010 - 08:18pm PT
Jefe: 110+ Panic, 80+ Dead, 50+ Phish, and double digit MMW, Grisman Quintet, Moe shows from 90 to 98. Hmm, some Blues Traveler shows, a dozen Allman Bros shows.You tell me.
Jim Brennan

Trad climber
Vancouver Canada
Mar 19, 2010 - 08:31pm PT
I don't know why people exclaim the presence of a preternatural Being exclusive of spirit when high.
Placing importance above and beyond a good time is funny. LSD is a DRUG ! nothing more.
brotherbbock

Trad climber
Alta Loma, CA
Mar 19, 2010 - 08:32pm PT
Went to that place inside my head for stretches of unknown time......only to snap out to a reality that was equally confusing and nonsensical.
Rokjox

Trad climber
Boys I'dunno
Mar 19, 2010 - 09:01pm PT
For some, LSD is a vitamin.



For others a food supplement.



Some find it a sacrament



For some it appears to be the boogyman.



Or a vice bringing great fear.



Treat it with great respect, or it will reject you and kick your ass. It is it's own creation, it utters it's own sounds; it is an ally of great power or of significant risk.






Jim Brennan

Trad climber
Vancouver Canada
Mar 19, 2010 - 09:16pm PT
Vitamin ? Like, it's going to grow strong bodies 12 ways ?

IT'S A DRUG ! Stop thinking your hallucinations were more than what reality offers.
Rokjox

Trad climber
Boys I'dunno
Mar 19, 2010 - 09:23pm PT
Frankly, I don't think I ever hallucinated. The things I saw were all real.

Mushrooms breathe. Their bodies swell and contract rhythmically. They have motion.

Time moves in discrete increments. You can feel each instant as it clicks into its space/place.

The molecules in the atmosphere rotate in flat hexcentric shells/plates, like snowflakes.

The giant rings of creosote bushes in Joshua Tree are all the same entity, each an ancient single plant, thousands of years old, and every fork of each bush is like a single synapse in its brain, a slowly thinking mind of distracted intelligence, that eats dirt and flesh through those ages. They don't despise us, as long as we don't destroy them. Our lives are too short for anything but a vague interest and pity. We don't live long enough to have a significant thought, by their standards. They are aware of us only as flashes that stand in their light or trod on their branches. If you want to learn from them, you must sit down and be still for a long time, until they notice you. Their most important connections are all underground.

The entire universe is FUNNY!






Someone else watched the sky turn over the Earth.





What about these things are hallucinations?






I never hallucinated.

I wanted hallucinations. I wanted to see the dragon. Any dragon. Instead I saw that the woman next to me inhaled life, and exhaled perfume.

I realized I could trust my mind, and by extension I could trust myself.

I certainly have never regretted those experiences, or doubted them.




I did wish I could go see Fantasia with a very tiny friend though. The Music! The Colors!


pyrosis

Trad climber
Flagstaff, AZ
Mar 20, 2010 - 04:01am PT
Word, Rox. Good post. :)

And to whoever said there wasn't any real stuff since Owsley.. Well, I guess they didn't know the Rainbow Family.
Jan

Mountain climber
Okinawa, Japan
Mar 20, 2010 - 04:45am PT
IT'S A DRUG ! Stop thinking your hallucinations were more than what reality offers.

I would argue the reverse since these same states can be reached naturally through meditation. All the drugs do is open up something that was already there, which is suppressed by the exigencies of thousands of years of recent survival and social normality.

Extraordinary sensations and perceptions are our evolutionary birthright. If they exist within our brain, they are real at least within the confines of our brain and maybe also on a more subtle plane that the drugs gives us access to. When they become great pieces of art, music, or poetry, they manefest in the outside physical world.

Labeling new sensations and thoughts as too far out to be real, is the true hallucination, the true opiate of the masses.
Karl Baba

Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
Mar 20, 2010 - 10:05am PT
LSD is like Supertopo. You aren't seeing anything that's not really there, but you don't know if you can trust your feelings about what you do see. Each becomes food for thought and considering an alternate view

Unlike LSD, Supertopo allows you to do it everyday for long periods. There should be a law against this place!

Peace

Karl
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
Topic Author's Reply - Mar 20, 2010 - 10:30am PT
I never hallucinated.

I wanted hallucinations. I wanted to see the dragon. Any dragon. Instead I saw that the woman next to me inhaled life, and exhaled perfume.

I agree Rocky, somewhat. You usually only hallucinate the first couple of times because it's so new and unexpected. This is a danger too and why I said earlier you should do your first trips with 'experienced' people (Have you ever been...experienced?---> Jimi).

Once you learn to understand and harness the DRUG, it is way more easy to control. You can almost control the voyage, take it places you want to go, as opposed to being sent on an unguided mission to who knows where.

That can be very dangerous. It is a super-powerful substance that really shouldn't be 'played' with, despite what we all did to initially experiment with it.

Before I gave it up I was quite proficient with controlling it. Of course I was doing it in controlled environments that I selected (isolated camping with a veteran/trusted tripping partner) and I knew what to expect, I knew where I wanted to go.

Amazing substance. I always found shrooms a little bit harder to control, maybe because of the inherent organic differences between batches, sources. It was a bit more hallucinogenic than LSD.

Of course almost all my LSD trips were off that white-blotter sheet we bought in Berkeley. I think, to this day, my buddy still has some doses in his freezer. It's kinda cool to be able to keep dosing the same batch. Results are always the same.

It was pretty good stuff. 3 or 4 hits sent you flyin'!!!! Very clean too. Prolly made by some under-grad chemist.
originalpmac

Mountain climber
Anywhere I like
Mar 20, 2010 - 11:07am PT
I'll never forget the first time i did it. Two hits of really good liquid, raging house party, thirteen years old. I could see the vibrations coming out of the DJ's speakers. they were green. Or the 80 plus times after that. I once ate 13 hits through out the night. Everything turned to fractals. Or the time jumping off a bridge into a river at 7 in the AM. or finding a piece of road pavement in a river (same river, different time) at 6 in the am, being bummed out about human pollution, then turning it over to find a plant growing out of it. I think we realized that Mother Earth would take back over...
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
Topic Author's Reply - Mar 20, 2010 - 11:23am PT
being bummed out about human pollution, then turning it over to find a plant growing out of it. I think we realized that Mother Earth would take back over...

Doesn't that say it all.....
weschrist

Gym climber
left sac
Mar 20, 2010 - 12:53pm PT
So bluey, you think the proper approach to environmental policy can be summed up by a "realization" someone had while on LSD? Sounds like you put a lot of "thought" into understanding the complexities of how nature works.

Stupid scientists should just drop acid and listen to the hippies. We should base our approach to medicine on the same kind of drug induced "insight."
locker

Social climber
Desert
Mar 20, 2010 - 12:58pm PT


"Stupid scientists should just drop acid and listen to the hippies"...

LOL!!!...


bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
Topic Author's Reply - Mar 20, 2010 - 01:05pm PT
So bluey, you think the proper approach to environmental policy can be summed up by a "realization" someone had while on LSD? Sounds like you put a lot of "thought" into understanding the complexities of how nature works.

No.

As usual, you're extrapolating from what I said. Nothing should be taken seriously from a doser. It's all relative, man. It;s not science at all. It's a personal experience with no basis in fact.

It's a trip, riding a drug. It has to be interpreted carefully.
originalpmac

Mountain climber
Anywhere I like
Mar 20, 2010 - 01:18pm PT
Bluey, well said about it all being relative. I think that time we found the pavement, we were 4 hits into a a heavy trip and walking up a river we spent our childhood swimming and playing in. Few years later and we were crawling up it like mud monsters, spun out of our gourds.

But finding the pavement and the realization that came with it: that is a typical example of the way your are able to interpret the world when your mind has been split open by heavy doses. i wouldn't say ingesting the actual chemical is healthy, but the thoughts and ideas that come with it can be amazing, even after the high is gone. i wouldn't be who I am today if it wasn't for all the LSD and mushrooms.

Like the Greatful Dead said..."wake up to find out that you are the eyes of the world..."

on that note, I haven't tripped out in years, I feel that I got what I need from it. When I was in high school, I had no worries, no pressing issues wighing heavy on the back of my mind. These days, it all comes out, and I find that I am not able to relax and let go, dive into it. The last time was perfect, we drank some tea and bouldered till 3 in the am. I remember dancing on the top of a boulder to Frank Zappa singing "My guitar wants to kill you mamma"

and now, I think, I am finished.
weschrist

Gym climber
left sac
Mar 20, 2010 - 01:24pm PT
It has to be interpreted carefully.

Yes, these things require very careful interpretation...
Timid TopRope

Social climber
Paradise, CA
Mar 20, 2010 - 03:08pm PT
Jeffery Lewis's funny song, "The Last Time I Took Acid I Went Insane".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F7HBCSF9nfs&feature=fvw

And it aint just for trustifarians in whitey town. Check out Public Enemy's take on LSD

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=62nCe2a1zsc

But if you like tripping in whitey town, try it eminem style,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4O4OVBaIMOs
Jan

Mountain climber
Okinawa, Japan
Mar 20, 2010 - 03:23pm PT
Psychedelics enabled a whole generation of suburbanites to experience what shamans and whole tribes have experienced since the beginning of time. Few would condemn Native Americans who ingest psychedeics as part of their religion, so why the double standard in regard to the children of the routinized, mechanistic society the rest of us live in, for doing the same?

There were a few tragedies along the way. On the other hand, six kids I went to school with (my graduating class was 50) were killed in car accidents by the age of 18, due to teenage drinking and driving. I'm quite sure the trippers got more that was valuable for life out of their drug than the drinkers ever did.
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Mar 20, 2010 - 04:03pm PT
Loudon Wainwright III - The Acid Song

And golfers who drop really shouldn't miss Loudon's 'Back Nine'...

bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
Topic Author's Reply - Mar 20, 2010 - 04:34pm PT
i wouldn't say ingesting the actual chemical is healthy, but the thoughts and ideas that come with it can be amazing, even after the high is gone. i wouldn't be who I am today if it wasn't for all the LSD and mushrooms.

Like the Greatful Dead said..."wake up to find out that you are the eyes of the world..."

on that note, I haven't tripped out in years, I feel that I got what I need from it. When I was in high school, I had no worries, no pressing issues wighing heavy on the back of my mind. These days, it all comes out, and I find that I am not able to relax and let go, dive into it. The last time was perfect, we drank some tea and bouldered till 3 in the am. I remember dancing on the top of a boulder to Frank Zappa singing "My guitar wants to kill you mamma"

and now, I think, I am finished.

Badda-bing!!!! i agree....

Glad I took the rides, don't need it now. I've seen it.
Jan

Mountain climber
Okinawa, Japan
Mar 20, 2010 - 05:05pm PT
I took peyote once, acid twice and it changed my world view forever.

After that I lived with Tibetans and Sherpas and saw amazing things I would not have been open to without it. The next step was to meditate as they did and get to the same places without the drugs.

The next stage seems to be trying to see the world with fresh eyes, original insights, and few to no preconceptions everyday, without either drugs or meditation. Not there yet.
weschrist

Gym climber
left sac
Mar 21, 2010 - 12:32pm PT
Few would condemn Native Americans who ingest psychedeics as part of their religion, so why the double standard in regard to the children of the routinized, mechanistic society the rest of us live in, for doing the same?

It'ain't the same. No way, no how, not even close.

Uhmerikuhn suburbanites lacked the generations of insight and interpretation that are readily available to Native Americans (and others). There was (is?) no frame of reference. Many simply forced their experiences to conform to their preexisting delusions. The result was intense cognitive dissonance, from which we are just beginning to recover... maybe.

The framework of the Eleusinians may have provided valuable guidance, if it weren't for the Christians.

Psychedelics were mixed with coke, alcohol, speed, barbiturates, etc. and the most dangerous narcotic of all... capitalism.

Clearly there were some who successfully made the transition, but the majority did not. I hope these people are capable of maintaining a useful context for future generations.




"If God dropped acid, would He see people?" -Steven Wright

"Today, a young man on acid realized that all matter is merely energy condensed to a slow vibration. That we are all one consciousness experiencing itself subjectively. There is no such thing as death, life is only a dream and we're the imagination of ourselves' . . . 'Here's Tom with the weather." -Bill Hicks

"That was the fatal flaw in Tim Leary’s trip. He crashed around America selling ‘consicousness expansion’ without ever giving a thought to the grim meat-hook realities that were lying in wait for all the people who took him too seriously . . . All those pathetically eager acid freaks who thought they could buy Peace and Understanding for three bucks a hit. But their loss and failure is ours, too. What Leary took down with him was the central illusion of a whole life-style that he helped to create . . . a generation of permanent cripples, failed seekers, who never understood the essential old mystic fallacy of the Acid Culture: the desperate assumption that somebody—or at least some force—is tending the Light at the end of the tunnel." -Hunter S. Thompson

"Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored." - Aldous Huxley
cintune

climber
the Moon and Antarctica
Mar 21, 2010 - 01:05pm PT
Well... it's not for everyone.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=76yWZcsgwF8&NR=1

I had many [bad trips]. Jesus Christ. I stopped taking it cause of that. I mean I just…couldn’t stand it. I dropped it for I don’t know how long. Then I started taking it just before I met Yoko. I got a message that you should destroy your ego, and I did. I was reading that stupid book of Leary’s and all that stupid sh#t. We were going through the whole game that everybody went through. And I destroyed meself.
John Lennon, 1970 Rolling Stone interview
Norwegian

Trad climber
Placerville, California
Mar 21, 2010 - 01:08pm PT
it's is completely cool to turn reality on it's lid,
and shake all of the change out of its pockets.

as long as you wisely invest the loose sense that you see wrolling down the sidewalk.
weschrist

Gym climber
left sac
Mar 21, 2010 - 01:09pm PT
LSD-DNA-parallel dimensions
Rokjox

Trad climber
Boys I'dunno
Mar 21, 2010 - 01:16pm PT
HEADLINE!




GLICK SAYS DNA DOUBLE SPRIAL STRUCTURE WAS FIRST ENVISIONED WHILE ON ACID TRIP!!!!!




THAT IS A HUGE DEAL!

GLICK WON THE NOBEL PRIZE FOR THE MOST IMPORTANT BIOLOGICAL DISCOVERY IN THE HISTORY OF HUMANITY BECAUSE OF AN LSD TRIP!!!!







DAMN WES! You did it again!


I'd expected a post like that to come from Klimmer.
weschrist

Gym climber
left sac
Mar 21, 2010 - 01:25pm PT
Crick



Wait until you hear about the associated government cover up...
Rhodo-Router

Gym climber
Green Cove slabbage BITD!
Mar 21, 2010 - 01:32pm PT
Ya know, wes, the theory of the guy in your video link is that people may be innately hardwired through our genes to appreciate the psychedelic experience.

This does not jibe with your dismissal of homo suburbanus' ability to find true meaning therein.

So, which is it?
Norwegian

Trad climber
Placerville, California
Mar 21, 2010 - 01:36pm PT
weschrist, im beneath the government's blanket and it is not cozy under here.
all the songs of meaning are muffled.
i cant breath. the light is gone.
fears flourish. insecurity screams its lies.
who am i?

thus, unhearalded discipline.
Mighty Hiker

climber
Vancouver, B.C.
Mar 21, 2010 - 01:36pm PT
If I were to drop acid (not at all likely), would I see this?
Credit: Vancouver Sun
Norwegian

Trad climber
Placerville, California
Mar 21, 2010 - 01:38pm PT
no mister mighty,
you wouldn't see. and that is the beauty.

in what lies behind the scene.
weschrist

Gym climber
left sac
Mar 21, 2010 - 01:59pm PT
Rhodo, humans are also hard wired to enjoy/appreciate sex... it doesn't mean they do it right, understand its spiritual potential, or get the most out of the experience.

In fact, people with the least amount of honest cultural context for sex (or drugs) often end up being the most misguided and dangerous. I can't think of anything more sickening, more spiritually corrupt, and more destructive to the human experience than "religious authorities" raping children and the church leaders covering it up.
Rhodo-Router

Gym climber
Green Cove slabbage BITD!
Mar 21, 2010 - 02:02pm PT
You use that line a lot?

We're all doing the best we can...lots of folks encounter drugs before they run into ancient cultures or 'yaqui wisdom' or rosary beads or what have ya. You can't fault people for trying.
weschrist

Gym climber
left sac
Mar 21, 2010 - 02:03pm PT
what line is that?
Rhodo-Router

Gym climber
Green Cove slabbage BITD!
Mar 21, 2010 - 02:05pm PT
um, the sex one. Forget it.
weschrist

Gym climber
left sac
Mar 21, 2010 - 02:37pm PT
Sex is an important and essential aspects of a healthy existence. Any(one) organization that suppresses such an essential aspect of existence defiles the soul. Any(one) organization that exalts sex above and beyond all else is similarly corrupt. Both result in sexual dissonance which reverberates through humanity.

The psychedelic experience is similar, only on a conscious level.

Deep, powerful aspects of existence should be treated with respect, lest the power be discombobulated and the human experience lost to chaos. This can only be accomplished with honesty, openness, and attention. The cognitive dissonance created by unerudite hippies aimlessly wandering the hinterlands of the unconscious is just barely starting to settle down. The innocence and naivety of most participants is the only reason humanity survived.

The entheogenic orgy of the late 60's and 70's was as much a legitimate spiritual experience as retrobolting El Cap into a sport crag is a legitimate climbing experience.
Jan

Mountain climber
Okinawa, Japan
Mar 21, 2010 - 04:05pm PT
The entheogenic orgy of the late 60's and 70's was as much a legitimate spiritual experience as retrobolting El Cap into a sport crag is a legitimate climbing experience.


I do agree with this and I think you will find if you go to spiritual retreats where people got interested in more traditional forms of spirituality first through their use of psychedelics, that they only took it a few times and then moved on.

One of the big disappointments was how few people of all those who experimented used it for anything other than recreation. The dream of instant Nirvana was sold out to capitalism which laced acid with all that other stuff but also to the ancient desire of humans to have something for nothing.

At least with peyote you knew what you were getting and you suffered physically in order to enjoy (you will never know nausea until you ingest peyote) - a much more realistic experience with a lesson for life.
Pate

Trad climber
Mar 21, 2010 - 04:31pm PT
you will never know nausea until you ingest peyote)
Try Iawassa sometime Jan. You'll see god through your vomit and wretching.
Rokjox

Trad climber
Boys I'dunno
Mar 21, 2010 - 04:40pm PT
... unerudite hippies aimlessly wandering the hinterlands of the unconscious is just barely starting to settle down. The innocence and naivety of most participants is the only reason humanity survived.





Ah y'all FOS.


Sorry, Jan, I usually like your stuff, but when you start agreeing with Wes on religion, you are surely heading over the edge.




Religion is where you find it. LSD did not almost destroy humanity in any way or to any degree. And those hippies were the best of the reactionaries to the never ending Vietnam war and the unexamined rush of Capitalism to own everything and lay it in the laps of the wealthy. I was there, and I am sure of this. Without the hippies, you would have had another million War deaths, and the world would have been sold down the river a lot faster than it was. The hippie movement scared the SH#T out of the old guard, and made them back off. Without the hippies standing beside the blacks for instance, the blacks would never have gotten anything but the whip. Check out the march videos, you will see a LOT of white hippies in the crowds, taking the bullets, the gas and the beatings given out by the police and the National Guardsmen wholesale, all over the US.

The US government killed every peoples movement leader they could, and MLK wasn't the only one. Seemed every grass roots leader was getting involved in what was usually termed a murder-suicide; where they were killed along with everyone who was with them at the time. (Same way France killed off the head of Greenpeace and sank the Rainbow Warrior.)

But the movement became too big even for the Fed to fight, thank God. Moved too fast, became too big and the drugs were part of the mix, financing things and providing an alternative expression of reality for those who needed it. The drugs helped provide a counter-culture, and a place where you could hide until you could get it together with like minded people.






Can't just discuss something, gotta go over the top and decry the experience as the end of the world.


Whata buncha crappa.
WBraun

climber
Mar 21, 2010 - 05:03pm PT
I remember when this LSD first hit the Bay Area big time in the 60's.

The "hippy" said I will take this "LSD" and become god.

He "took".....

He then stood on the peninsula commuter train tracks and said; "I am now god almighty and will stop the train!"

He did stop the train, after it ran him over ...........
Rokjox

Trad climber
Boys I'dunno
Mar 21, 2010 - 05:05pm PT
Werner, thats the first story I ever heard you ever tell that I don't believe for an instant.
WBraun

climber
Mar 21, 2010 - 05:13pm PT
It's true it really happened.

If you go to the microfilm of the "San Francisco Chronicle" way back in those days you'll see all kinds of crazy sh'it that happened.

Another hippy fell down an elevator shaft on cid in Frisco and lived with minor injuries they said.

The hippy said it was a wonderful trip floating down .........

Rokjox

Trad climber
Boys I'dunno
Mar 21, 2010 - 05:27pm PT
I guess there are more idiots in the world than you can count.


I still wonder about those kind of reports. A lot of stuff was blamed on drugs that had to be either stupidity or something worse. Just like now, every guy who does something dumb gets points from the judge if they go out in public and lecture against drugs. Hell, once they made me stand up and read a lawyer prepared script to the judge about how disaffected I had become with Marijuana and how certain I was I would never do it again. The words were so foreign to my mouth that I had to read them straight off the notebook page the lawyer had written them on, and I stumbled even then. But it was part of the show, and the judge waited till I got to the end, and then said how glad he was that I had seen the light. All part of the act for the courtroom I was in.

I bet the judge when home and lit up a jay. I am pretty sure my lawyer did. I made him admit to me he had smoked before I would hire him.




I remember a guy that was reported in the papers to have gotten high, and jumped from a high apartment building thinking he could fly. A few years later I find out the guy was a CIA spy or some such and had been thrown to his death by his handlers who were told to shut him up and make it look like an accident. The first story hit the national news that some government scientist had killed himself, and was read or heard by tens of millions, it was a BFD. The second story was in the back of an expose' book on the CIA and the black ops programs, and likely had a readership of a couple hundred thousand if the author was lucky.

I never did figure out how they decided he had done LSD. There was no existing test for metabolized LSD. I still don't think there is...

And the guy wasn't talking any more.








So did somebody interview that guy and THEN let him stop the train? Isn't it a little hard to tell what is in the mind of somebody who is standing on the tracks? And was previous mental illness an issue? Did he think he was God BEFORE he got high?

Sorry, I just find that sh#t hard to believe, even once. I realize the world is big, and there are a lot of idiots out there who believe they are God no matter what state of sobriety they are in, but still ...
Rhodo-Router

Gym climber
Green Cove slabbage BITD!
Mar 21, 2010 - 05:46pm PT
I personally do not feel that I myself am in any position to tell another human being what did or did not constitute their 'legitimate' spiritual experience.

That's what popes are for.
weschrist

Gym climber
left sac
Mar 21, 2010 - 07:59pm PT
Don't get me wrong, I like hippies.

Don't forget that popes are also responsible for shaping what their followers interpret as a religious experience, before and after the experience...

"Here, take this, you will see God." I wonder what reaction that might elicit.
Pate

Trad climber
Mar 21, 2010 - 08:33pm PT
LSD urban legend bullshit is way homo.

Just sayin', Werner.





As for seeing god- doesn't everyone have the right to interpret what god is in their own individual way? All I keep reading here is a bunch of fools saying that their god is better than anyone else's and can only be attained through Christian insanity.

I've said it before and I'll say it again- the joke is on you, there is no god. How otherwise intelligent people believe in a bunch of smoke and mirrors enough that they will argue and fight over it is ridiculous.

Guess what life after death is just like? It's identical to life before you were born- NOTHING.


Last but not least, there are a lot of people taking part in this thread who have absolutely no experience in the topic. Sure you can read all you like about a subject, but like climbing, hallucinogen use is something that can only be understood through experience. ie- Mighty Hiker=LEB. What a joke. I'd sure like to tell you all about A5, but I think I'll just keep my pie-hole shut because it's out of my league. I'm not an authority on it just because I read Deuce's threads.

You guys claim to have such huge old school sacks and blah blah blah, but you're afraid to do the simplest and scariest thing in life- be forced to take a close examination of your soul, or a "fearless moral inventory" as some call it.

Bluering started this thread with the intention of people sharing their experiences. All you guys that have no experience, all you've got is a bunch of hot air.

weschrist

Gym climber
left sac
Mar 21, 2010 - 08:50pm PT
All I keep reading here is a bunch of fools saying that their god is better than anyone else's and can only be attained through Christian insanity.

There is a more insidious tragedy. By attributing every exceptional sensation or experience to the "dangling deity" Jehovah, THEY have precluded any objective interpretation.

I whole heartedly believe that many people have/had truly transcendental experiences on entheogens, only to be tainted later by socio-religious indoctrination.

The whole hippy movement would have been, could have been, or maybe even did lay the roots for a great shift in western thought and civilization. The energy was there, it was pointed in the right direction, but there was no context other than self-indulgence in the face of the ugly opposition.

A stark, uncontrolled opposition only sets the pendulum swinging violently in the opposite direction. Hello Reagan's Neocons.
Pate

Trad climber
Mar 21, 2010 - 08:57pm PT
weschrist=smart
weschrist

Gym climber
left sac
Mar 21, 2010 - 08:57pm PT
douche bag
Pate

Trad climber
Mar 21, 2010 - 08:59pm PT
dude, that was a compliment.
weschrist

Gym climber
left sac
Mar 21, 2010 - 09:07pm PT
Pate, you know I love you man... not in a Republican way... or a Catholic Priest way... but as a fellow thinking human being.
Pate

Trad climber
Mar 21, 2010 - 09:10pm PT
dude, you're the starting right wing on my ST team.
Pate

Trad climber
Mar 21, 2010 - 09:37pm PT
Albert Hoffman

And a celebration of his bike ride
guido

Trad climber
Santa Cruz/New Zealand/South Pacific
Mar 21, 2010 - 09:44pm PT
The good old hot dog will never be the same-vegetarians delete

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a5TJApnJ8X8
Jan

Mountain climber
Okinawa, Japan
Mar 21, 2010 - 09:51pm PT
Pate-

What in the world is Lawassa?
Sounds like it could be the root they chew and spit out
and then drink again in parts of Polynesia?
Pate

Trad climber
Mar 21, 2010 - 09:51pm PT
That was god talking to her in the hot dog! It all makes sense now!
Pate

Trad climber
Mar 21, 2010 - 09:55pm PT
Jan, it's a rainforest root. It can be prepped a bunch of ways, one is the way you describe. It can also just be chewed and swallowed. Ceremonially they ferment it in a saliva concoction.

Anyhow, it'll make you gag that's for sure. That gagging produces waves of psychedelia. Just like peyote, after the purge everything goes smoothly and the real journey begins.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ayahuasca
Jan

Mountain climber
Okinawa, Japan
Mar 21, 2010 - 10:14pm PT
Rokjox-

I'm sitting here scratching my head as to how you think I agree with Weschrist? It seems like he and I are on opposite sides of the fence on almost every thread that has anything to do with religion, spirituality, or counter culture?

And I agree with your assessment of the hippies. I never was one but I participated in plenty of peace marches and other political acts to stop that horrible war and to bring about civil rights for all.

Heck, I even think it was dumb to introduce Canadian wolves to the lower 48.

So how is it you and I are on opposite sides and Weschrist and I are going over the edge together?

Help, somebody here must be hallucinating!
Is it me?
enjoimx

Big Wall climber
SLO Cal
May 5, 2010 - 08:32pm PT
Breaking Open The Head
was written by Daniel Pinchbeck. I saw him speak at a music festival once. Great book. I like the parts about Burning Man, as I can personally relate to what he is saying.

Another great book on the subject, one of the best actually, is called "DMT: The Spirit Molecule"

DMT, a much more potent and serious psychedelic than acid, is actually also created by our own body, and is thought to be released upon death.
kbstuffnpuff

Sport climber
State of Confusion
May 5, 2010 - 08:37pm PT
I'm so completely wasted.
Rokjox

Trad climber
Boys I'dunno
May 5, 2010 - 08:45pm PT
Hey Jan, if you happen to come back to this thread:

I just saw your next to most recent post;
Rokjox-

I'm sitting here scratching my head as to how you think I agree with Weschrist? It seems like he and I are on opposite sides of the fence on almost every thread that has anything to do with religion, spirituality, or counter culture? ...
... how is it you and I are on opposite sides and Weschrist and I are going over the edge together?



I think I over reacted when I saw ;

(from Wes)The entheogenic orgy of the late 60's and 70's was as much a legitimate spiritual experience as retrobolting El Cap into a sport crag is a legitimate climbing experience.

(Jan replied)
I do agree with this and I think you will find if you go to spiritual retreats where people got interested in more traditional forms of spirituality first through their use of psychedelics, that they only took it a few times and then moved on.


I really recognize that Wes is almost completely anti-religion, (almost completely??) and I didn't really think how unlikely the pairing might sound. I just felt odd when I saw you agreeing with him. Please take no offense, I don't even usually think of the two of you in the same paragraph.

I really didn't intend to offend. And I don't think of us as being on opposite sides of anything in particular,,,
TripL7

Trad climber
san diego
May 5, 2010 - 08:58pm PT
Well, you are on opposite sides of the Pacific Ocean!
Rokjox

Trad climber
Boys I'dunno
May 5, 2010 - 09:02pm PT
Right. Its why she is so often awake when I have a late night typing fit.

dogtown

Trad climber
JackAssVille, Wyoming
May 5, 2010 - 09:09pm PT
Sh#t, Dude
We never did acid what the f*#k are you talking about? Those route names in the valley were just made up to sound cool at the time.

FLOL.
Dogtown.

dr. juicer kaniglio

Trad climber
san diego, ca
May 5, 2010 - 11:49pm PT
What this thread is doing on Supertopo, I dont know.

I grew up in SLC Utah, and for whatever reason LSD was abundant, cheap, and very clean. I had'nt experienced it in about 12 years. I started taking whopping doses about age 14. By age 19 I had had enough.

For pure experimental purposes I took a fairly large dose about 3 weeks ago. It reminded me why I dont do that anymore. I dont regret the experience, but I kinda felt like I suffered through the experience. It was not inherently negative. Parts of it were amazing. For the most part I felt confused and yearned for sobriety.

As a kid I would take a large dose and just go through it, experience it, sober up, and do it again a few days later. In my opinion there are certainly lessons to be learned. I would not ever take psychedelics for recreation now because I dont find the experience "fun", like I used to for whatever reason. There are much better vehicles for psychedelic exploration around, like DMT, Sassafras, Molly, and Psylocybes. LSD, upon doing it again seemed trivial and pointless, though the hallucinations were very clean and amazing. I just don't think there is much to be gained from the LSD experience. Where as the other substances I mentioned, for me anyways, offer an experience I can learn from, and better myself from......Peace
Watusi

Social climber
Newport, OR
May 6, 2010 - 12:15am PT
Wow...This is back to the front page...Most of my art was definitely influenced by the stuff...:)


I call this one..."Hypnotica"
dr. juicer kaniglio

Trad climber
san diego, ca
May 6, 2010 - 12:34am PT
As I kinda mentioned in my previous post, the individual "trip" or experience which is usually hard to describe and usually ends up just sounding silly, is kind of irrelevant. What is the bigger picture? Why do we ingest this drug? What has it taught you? How does it affect humanity as a whole?

Fractal patterns are fun, but not much more IMO. Can this drug help our spiritual evolution?? Who cares about you describing your own silly trip about how f'ed up you were? Not me.

What can humanity as a whole learn from this drug??? If people can start answering these questions, I'll jump and and voice my opinion. Then another can voice theirs... and another. Then we can learn from each other. And ultimately work towards making this world a better place. A place where universal truths are understood, and the unnecesary seperation we all deal with everyday can be abolished.

We are truly all one. Seperation is an illusion. Lets start talking about "real stuff", and important things like this, and this website will be worth something. Something that can better humanity. Instead of just useless BS, thats mostly about entertainment, and pumping the ego up. THINK ABOUT IT... THE INTERNET IS AN AMAZINGLY POWERFUL VEHICLE FOR HUMAN EVOLUTION. Lets stop wasting time "shooting the shit", and get down to some real topics.......... Peace
chez

Social climber
chicago ill
May 6, 2010 - 12:41am PT
Are you trippin?
krutley

climber
here, now
May 6, 2010 - 01:14am PT
2 things. when i lived in idyllwild late 70's', there was this guy (rotten-toothed Roy), who'd eat acid if he thought he was catchin a cold. I don't think i ever knew when he was trippin or not. I think it was just a distraction, like comics, no intention behind it, conditioning. My take.

One day my buddy John E and I dosed at the bottom of some 3 pitch bolted face on Suicide Rock, by the 3rd pitch, which he led, i was breathing funny, amazed at how tiny 1/4" bolt is, sticking halfway out, rock melting, etc. I think even at the time i was more concerned about bragging up the experience than the experience itself. Another lesson lost.

For me, acid and 12-step just provide tools. then you move on. done.
tradmanclimbs

Ice climber
Pomfert VT
May 6, 2010 - 07:52am PT
Shrooms go well with sking. Acid goes well with outdoor nature walks. haven't done any of that stuff in decades. last acid experience 1980...

Climbing itself is the high for me and it does not inmop mix well with any druggs or booze. I used to love the post climbing beers but never liked to be messed up while actually climbing.
Norwegian

Trad climber
Placerville, California
Jul 28, 2010 - 09:30am PT
an acoustic (though plugged-in) trip thru the colors,

sonic youth, hits of sunshine.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ViTIg57qJtY
jstan

climber
Jul 28, 2010 - 09:48am PT
" And ultimately work towards making this world a better place. A place where universal truths are understood, and the unnecesary seperation we all deal with everyday can be abolished.

We are truly all one. Seperation is an illusion."


During the past sixty years, in reaction to the kind of interdependence we experienced in WWII, we have spent our nation's resources to make this separation possible.

"I don't need anybody and may throw pooh in any direction I choose."

Our resources grow increasingly thin. Realities press in upon us. Think about what existed before the "separateness."
Credit: jstan
scotte

Trad climber
nathrop, colorado
Jul 29, 2010 - 05:14pm PT
Fun stuff BITD
donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
Jul 29, 2010 - 05:55pm PT
Canadian wolves Jan? They may have come from Canada but they are no different from "Minnesota" wolves or "Montana" wolves. I would rather see wolves keep the Elk population in control in a natural way than overweight, sometimes inebriated, white males. Good old right of center doublespeak.
Ricardo Cabeza

climber
All Over.
Jul 29, 2010 - 06:07pm PT
I saw Alex Grey stuff for the first time at a gallery of his art on the Playa in '05.

k-man

Gym climber
SCruz
Jul 29, 2010 - 06:49pm PT
Bump, for the cool Albert Hofmann article!
k-man

Gym climber
SCruz
Jul 31, 2010 - 02:14pm PT
Had to get my scanner going for this one!

I saved a very interesting article from back when I was in High School (hey, I didn't name it that!). Read the authorization by Dr. Hofmann on the first page of the interview. Very interesting read, for those interested in this thread... Enjoy.

[Click on the images to view a readable version.]

Albert Hofmann - '76 High Times Interview 1/7
Albert Hofmann - '76 High Times Interview 1/7
Credit: k-man

Albert Hofmann - '76 High Times Interview 2/7
Albert Hofmann - '76 High Times Interview 2/7
Credit: k-man

Albert Hofmann - '76 High Times Interview 3/7
Albert Hofmann - '76 High Times Interview 3/7
Credit: k-man

Albert Hofmann - '76 High Times Interview 4/7
Albert Hofmann - '76 High Times Interview 4/7
Credit: k-man

Albert Hofmann - '76 High Times Interview 5/7
Albert Hofmann - '76 High Times Interview 5/7
Credit: k-man

Albert Hofmann - '76 High Times Interview 6/7
Albert Hofmann - '76 High Times Interview 6/7
Credit: k-man

Albert Hofmann - '76 High Times Interview 7/7
Albert Hofmann - '76 High Times Interview 7/7
Credit: k-man
Bruce Morris

Social climber
Belmont, California
Jul 31, 2010 - 02:25pm PT
Stuff gives me a headache! Yabo and I took it once in the Valley. Then, John Dill nabbed Yabo to go on a rescue and do a body carry. 6-week old corpse. Yabo did it! I went to Sentinel Rocks to boulder and saw images of Egyptian Gods ascending and descending out of the boulders and up into the sky. What did Yabo see as he carried the corpse down the talus that hot afternoon? No one knows & he never told anyone. Secrets that went to the grave with him.
rrider

climber
Mckinleyville, Ca
Jul 31, 2010 - 05:14pm PT
In the late 70's, I read the first 40 pages of Lilly's book about acid and sens-dep tanks. Read it while driving. Across the Utah Salt Flats. I was perfectly sober.
Lambone

Ice climber
Ashland, Or
Jul 31, 2010 - 10:16pm PT
I haven't read this whole thread but am curious if any of you guys have been doing much L lately, and what your impression of the current liquid quality is overall.
bluering

Trad climber
CA
Topic Author's Reply - Jul 31, 2010 - 10:21pm PT
I haven't read this whole thread but am curious if any of you guys have been doing much L lately, and what your impression of the current liquid quality is overall.

Haven't touched it in years, but the last batch I sampled (10 years ago) was good. White blotter.

It's a lost science with all the boner pills, ecstacy, and what have you. The world sucks now....
Lambone

Ice climber
Ashland, Or
Aug 1, 2010 - 12:39pm PT
been sampling a little since phish's return.
weschrist

Gym climber
left sac
Aug 11, 2010 - 07:44am PT
“We are all wired into a survival trip now. No more of the speed that fueled that 60's. That was the fatal flaw in Tim Leary's trip. He crashed around America selling "consciousness expansion" without ever giving a thought to the grim meat-hook realities that were lying in wait for all the people who took him seriously... All those pathetically eager acid freaks who thought they could buy Peace and Understanding for three bucks a hit. But their loss and failure is ours too. What Leary took down with him was the central illusion of a whole life-style that he helped create... a generation of permanent cripples, failed seekers, who never understood the essential old-mystic fallacy of the Acid Culture: the desperate assumption that somebody... or at least some force - is tending the light at the end of the tunnel.

Hunter S. Thompson
Pate

Trad climber
Aug 11, 2010 - 07:50am PT
That is one of my absolute favorite Gonzo quotes Wes.

"Grim meathook reality."
pocoloco1

Social climber
The Chihuahua Desert
Aug 11, 2010 - 08:06am PT
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Twre6ItGEI
xtrmecat

Big Wall climber
Kalispell, Montanagonia
Aug 11, 2010 - 09:22am PT
Everything I have done, make me what I am now.

That said, I like many did have a few of the earlier trips hard to do without guidance from someone who had "experience". Then I had no problems doing social evenings with freinds and even wild outings in public. I am sure many knew something was up, I just didn't care, and for the most part was totally harmless to myself and the public.

Best trip was nakedness, music, swimming, long conversations with someone I am still aquainted with that was sober. Worst case was laying in a yard in the sun, unable to move far, baking, watching the grass grow, drooling on myself,took a trip into town to change the scenery, but had to lay on the van floor as it was all going tooooooooooooooo fast.

I have 25 years sober behind me now, so that will give away the era, no real regrets about the consumption of anything. In fact, when asked to list all the substances I have taken by an institution I was attending, I needed a PDR to jog my memory, and I and the professional took a several hour tour down memory lane. I find it hard to believe vitamin "A" is non addictive, but anything pleasurable to me seems to form a habit, climbing included.

I normally don't post off topic, but this topic seems to cover something I have mileage in, not interest in, just mileage. It has made no real significant attributes to my being, spiritual or otherwise, but in the same respect I wouldn't be who I am without traveling the routes I did. What a ride it's been too!

Burly Bob
kunlun_shan

Mountain climber
SF, CA
Nov 12, 2010 - 08:34pm PT
Interesting story about an LSD art collection (in SF of course :)

http://missionlocal.org/2010/11/lsd-museum-or-institute-of-illegal-images/

“It’s an archival museum of psychedelic art. Our friend here is the curator,” proffered Arthur Round, an older man cross-legged in a wicker chair. The parlor is plastered with approximately 350 pieces of framed blotter art and guarded from prying eyes by heavy black curtains, making the space feel like a vault or secret subterranean headquarters.

Dubbed the “LSD Museum” by some of his fans, McCloud’s collection includes more than 33,000 sheets and individual tabs of blotter paper imprinted with pop culture images and used to transmit doses of LSD. He calls it the “Institute of Illegal Images.”.
go-B

climber
Matthew 25:40
Nov 12, 2010 - 09:06pm PT
That's some TR...
photo not found
Missing photo ID#177873
Jan

Mountain climber
Okinawa, Japan
Nov 12, 2010 - 09:26pm PT
Well I am going to disagree with Hunter Thompson (gasp!).

My experience with psychedelics (last used in the 1960's) began a life long quest into the nature of reality and whether it exists only in one's head or there are other dimensions beyond the physical universe.

I've spent four decades since then practicing meditation and having, just as the eastern gurus predicted, similar experiences as I had on acid and peyote, but created either in my brain myself or in my brain with the help of an outside force. I've had many other experiences as well, created by effects much more subtle than psychedelics. I've understood much of the world's great mystical religious literature in the process and developed my own world view which works for me. Because I do believe there is consciousness in other dimensions than the physical, I strive to be a better person.

Psychedelics weren't wrong, but the philosophy Leary preached, of leading a hedonistic, irresponsible life style was. In the meantime millions of people were opened up to a more beautiful reality than our ordinary world and retreat centers of several different religions are run by people who became interested in human potential after using psychedelics. Many artists and writers, and probably even some mathematicians and scientists owe their initial inspiration to these experiences as well.

I believe that the people whose lives were screwed up with drugs, would have become alcoholics instead, if the 1950's had continued on.

bvb

Social climber
flagstaff arizona
Nov 12, 2010 - 09:29pm PT
hofman lectured at my college -- "lsd, my problem child."

oh HELL YEAH.
snowhazed

Trad climber
Oaksterdam, CA
Nov 12, 2010 - 10:42pm PT
the liquid going around sf for the last year is top notch

lazy summer days like some decrepit land shark dog lead secluded
dont let stupid delusions lessen super duty labor student dragnet lifer solutions
daddy loved sloppy dimensions like son daughter links such determinated levels successfully dishelveled late show dave letterman sh#tty diner lip slide dutch low self discipline leader seeks deadlam self destruct life sucks dickhead liturgy soaked depicts lowly spectacular delight- why what kind of lsd you like?
Wayno

Big Wall climber
Seattle, WA
Nov 12, 2010 - 11:25pm PT
Nice post, Jan. I'm probably a couple of years younger, but I can really relate to what you say. I can remember tripping in the seventies and wondering why most of my co-trippers weren't getting it. I still wonder why people don't get it. Get what? That's the catch.
BES1'st

climber
City of Orange, CA.
Nov 13, 2010 - 08:50am PT
k-man
I need to read this later. I think I remember he accidently
fried from skin intake from the cold research and that stuff
only takes 100's or 1000's of a gram? I think very few or just
a couple ingested L-25 from a hydrogen filled test tube?
joebuzz

Trad climber
San Francisco, CA.
Nov 13, 2010 - 10:54am PT
I have two kitties at home... Ellis & Dee. Coincidence or No?
gonamok

climber
aging malcontent
Nov 13, 2010 - 04:28pm PT
Ive done lot of LSD. If its not too strong you can get into a zone where you are intensely focused, infinitely capable, and pain, fatigue and fear dont exist. A remoreseless bouldering machine.

When its too strong, LSD has the opposite effect on climbing. I tried Leave it to beaver frying on LSD and almost had a heart attack when i came flying off the thing. It didnt help that my belayer, Alan Nelson, dirted me, catching me about 6' off the deck.

Mushrooms can improve climbing ability too, but mostly just make it more fun. One of the funnest things Ive ever done was free solo tahquitz on mushrooms. Like LSD, too much is not a good thing however.

Like a good breakfast, drugs make for a better and more satisfying climbing experience ad should be a part of everyones climbing regimen.
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
Nov 13, 2010 - 04:43pm PT
Psychodelics allow me to tap into the animal psyche...especially with sheep and chickens...rj
Todd Eastman

climber
Bellingham, WA
Nov 13, 2010 - 05:28pm PT
rj, you might want to add some penicillin to your mix...
Captain...or Skully

Big Wall climber
leading the away team, but not in a red shirt!
Nov 13, 2010 - 06:03pm PT
I just ate a buncha mushrooms. You like apples?
john hansen

climber
Nov 13, 2010 - 09:40pm PT
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=onjaC3A2xjk
gonamok

climber
aging malcontent
Nov 14, 2010 - 12:39am PT
Lambone - I havent done any acid in awhile, doubt if i ever will again, but what they cqall LSD today wouldnt have even qualified as kool aid acid BITD. Clean but very, very weak. If you havent taken LSD before 1990, you havent taken LSD.

I dropped acid for the first time in 1968, when the real deal was on the street. 1/2 hit of orange mini barrel had me hallucinating wildly and on the edge of reality for most of a day. The early stuff I saw was on tiny tabs and blotters. Quality and potency declined in the 70s, and it was on larger tabs or in powder form, which was sometimes cut with strychnine. You could still get the real stuff like window pane, which came on tiny clear squares, or sandoz blotter, but you had to know the right people. I tripped alot back then, but only totally left reality twice. Once when I took 3 hits of window pane and spent 48 hours sitting on a mound of dirt in a field while my mind blazed with indescribable scenarios. I lived lives, saw the birth and death of entire galaxies and romped with bizarre but friendly cartoon friends as my body sat motionless. When I finally came to I was starving, freezing, thirsty as hell and my entire body ached, but the experience was worth it.

The other out of reality experience resulted from eating a full hit of sandoz blotter acid. I pulled my car over and went bye bye for around 12 hours. The hallucinations were viciously intense, including the wildest audio and body hallucinations Ive ever experienced. I came to my senses to find my mouth had been wide open the whole time. It was dry as a bone and my jaws were almost stuck. That one wasnt as magical as the first. I only did LSD occasionally after that.
karodrinker

Trad climber
San Jose, CA
Jun 16, 2013 - 01:08pm PT
Bump for bumps sake
rSin

Trad climber
calif
Jun 16, 2013 - 01:10pm PT
a civil democratic society would be handing it out
kennyt

climber
Woodfords,California
Jun 16, 2013 - 01:12pm PT
there are eleven year olds here
rSin

Trad climber
calif
Jun 16, 2013 - 01:43pm PT
bullshit!

preteens have considerable lobbies

if they were here their agents would have softened us up long before now
hotlum

climber
Oregon
Jun 16, 2013 - 02:15pm PT
Had wonderful times on shrooms a while back. First time was in a maple grove in New Hampshire in the fall. Most intense time was on the summit of Middle Sister in Oregon. Wouldn't trade those times for anything, but wouldn't touch the stuff at this point in the game.
AP

Trad climber
Calgary
Jun 16, 2013 - 05:27pm PT
So I was in grade 10 back in 1972. One Friday noon I dropped a tab then went to Sociology class. I walk in and see 2 cops and a big blue box that opens up in 2 sections.
Oh Boy we are getting the DRUG LECTURE!
The box is full of samples of lots of stuff. Of course everybody wonders if it is real. I have a great class while tripping.
EP

Trad climber
Way Out There
Jun 16, 2013 - 07:38pm PT
Summer of '69. Coming back to Santa Cruz from Oregon up the Rogue River. I was given a tab of Pink Harvard, which I was told came from Harvard. I was 13, just a month shy of 14. I laughed all day long on half. Later that night in Arcata, I was tired of tripping and just wanted to sleep.

4 months later I took what was called Pink Mescaline. Now I think it was about 500 micrograms of chopped up LSD. My world disassembled. People were missing arms, legs, tops, bottoms, and the Earth was in pieces. At one point, I was on the floor looking up through backwards binoculars with fisheye lenses unable to recognize my friends anymore. It was a long, long day and the strongest trip I ever took.

I picked up a hitchhiker on the way to see the Dead at the Cow Palace one New Years. He paid me with 30 peyote buttons. He had about 2000 in his back pack.

Didn't eat shrooms until High Sierra Music Festival a few years back. I fell in love with a tall tree and her beautiful fractals.

Last weekend of March this year I was given Dilaudid in the hospital. Talk about hallucinations!
Ricky D

Trad climber
Sierra Westside
Jun 16, 2013 - 07:52pm PT
Used to hang with the hippies who lived in the Victorian houses on Poli Street in Ventura back in the day. Pure, clean, real Owsley now and then - very T. Leary - all about "set and setting". Lot of Indian print bedspreads from Pier I and Boston ferns in macrame hangers.

Weirdest dare was dropping blotter after being told that our company was shutting down. We made low-cost crappy sound mixers for garage bands and the owner's wife skipped town with the checkbook and one of our engineers. To get home, I had to drive down the Conejo Grade at rush hour on a early sundown winter's night - still remember the pulsing taillights samba rhythm to this day.

Now shrooms are a class all their own - used to room with a bunch of surfers in the Valley and one of the guys ran a full clean room nursery in the garage - pressure cookers, brown rice, sterilizers and a sh#t ton of Mason jars. Spores Galore I tells ya!

The wife and I mixed up some shroomy tea and spent one Christmas Eve laying buck-nekkid on a sheep skin rug under a 14 foot tree covered with strobing mini-lights, wearing 3d glasses from some theater showing and giggling for hours.
McHale's Navy

Trad climber
From Panorama City, CA
Jun 16, 2013 - 07:54pm PT
What a great thread. I've done my share but didn't start till I was about 29 and that was mushrooms - about 1980. Last acid may have been about 1995. Never did all that much - it was more experimental than recreational - fascinating stuff it is! More than anything it cleared my head. That was the 'feeling' - of clearness, no vibrations, or something. Anyway, I quit wearing glasses after acid. I used to not be able to read freeway exit signs in time to get off the freeway, especially at night, without glasses. I stomped my glasses into the ground one day around 1983. One of my biggest fears for years was maybe losing what I gained in eyesight somehow. I still don't wear glasses or use contacts. I am still amazed at how clear those exit signs are! Essentially what seeing is is done by the brain and you have to get all your sh#t out of the way. The eyes simply focus attention and you let the brain soak it up. I suppose the brain and eyes have to be relaxed at the same time. You have to be able to chew gum and walk at the same time. If I'm uptight and not seeing well, I go in there (inside my brain) and relax it - just let it go, my brain goes snap, crackle, and pop, and I can see again. It's as simple as that. Yeah, I liked Rice Crispies too.

Here's an experiment for those that have done the goods. I enjoy looking at those 3D stereogram posters. I wonder if people that have done psychedelics find them easier to do than people that have not done LSD etc. In fact, the Magic Eye 3D company has a book on improving vision. I find that looking at the images brings my mind to a relaxed state if it is not already there. Here is a link to one image. I don't really have to try to see them - they happen as soon as they hit the screen pretty much - after I'm warmed up. There are plenty of others out there;

http://www.ied.edu.hk/has/vrdemo/rds/donut.gif

I can certainly say much more about my psychedelic experiences! One of the big things was seeing how what we call time is not linear. It's very difficult to describe and many times I'm happy just to remember that I experienced it. One way to see it is in realizing that everything that happens in the world happens at the exact same moment and the moment is something else again! Geez, I sound high, but that's the reality of this thread. Doing LSD was one of the most important things I ever did. If I did it when I was younger I may have never climbed El Cap and I may have spent more time in school, but whatever, Reality is one very Grandiose thing! Viva the Universe!

I don't follow the research but it gives me hope just to see that it's happening. These drugs saved our world and generation. Here's something I grabbed off the net;

http://www.maps.org/research/
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