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aa-lex
climber
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Topic Author's Original Post - Mar 10, 2010 - 04:33am PT
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So I've been trying to search about people's experiences and opinions with using the climbing rope for the anchor but haven't found much. I have always used a 20' cordolette, with 3 good pieces, equalized, tied off with an eight, and then belay directly off of this using auto blocked device. This has worked great for me but recently I have been intrigued by the idea of using the climbing rope. I see it as a way to eliminate another thing hanging off my harness. I just want to see what pros and cons people who use this system see.
Seems like pros are: less junk on my harness
Cons are: escaping belay
What else? Any input is appreciated.
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aa-lex
climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Mar 10, 2010 - 04:59am PT
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yeah actually most threads i found only briefly mentioned using the rope. most spoke of the web-o-lette vs. cordolette vs. slings.....etc. but seemingly not much about using the rope. most are about different anchor configurations like knot, no knot, sliding x...etc.
all i'm getting at are pros and cons between using the actual climbing rope or another piece of gear (cordolette, web-o-lette, pas, slings).
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ec
climber
ca
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Mar 10, 2010 - 05:42am PT
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Go to a Search and Rescue site...
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Prod
Trad climber
Dodge Sprinter Dreaming
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Mar 10, 2010 - 08:11am PT
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Sometimes I use a cordalette, more and more I tie off 2 or 3 good pieces in series using clove hitches in the lead line.
Prod.
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Norwegian
Trad climber
Placerville, California
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Mar 10, 2010 - 08:25am PT
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ropes and rocks and brawn and dreams.
that's all he ever thinks about...
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Jim E
climber
away
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Mar 10, 2010 - 09:13am PT
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You could do a combo deal. Set three pieces, put a sliding X on two of them, clove hitch yourself to it, then clove hitch in the last piece in a close approximation to equalized. Sort of a 'best of both worlds'. You can still escape the belay easily.
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Chiloe
Trad climber
Lee, NH
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Mar 10, 2010 - 09:38am PT
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JimE:
You could do a combo deal. Set three pieces, put a sliding X on two of them, clove hitch yourself to it, then clove hitch in the last piece in a close approximation to equalized. Sort of a 'best of both worlds'. You can still escape the belay easily.
By sheer coincidence I've got a picture of just such a rig.
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Prod
Trad climber
Dodge Sprinter Dreaming
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Mar 10, 2010 - 09:47am PT
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Great minds think alike Prod don't they?
FnA Brother!
But I still use a locker in the system. Roy/ Tarbaby never did when we climbed together.
Prod.
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ionlyski
Trad climber
Kalispell, Montana
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Mar 10, 2010 - 09:56am PT
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Do a search on Ultrabikers 3 loop, sliding knot. Large volume of discussion available in the archives.
Arne
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Zander
Trad climber
Berkeley
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Mar 10, 2010 - 10:10am PT
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Hey aa-lex,
I've been climbing about ten years so I'm still learning. I've learned mostly from reading John Long's books. I carry an equallette and if there is any question in my mind about the individual pieces of pro that's what I use. However, now that I've been doing this climbing thing for a while I've started to feel more confidant in what I'm doing. In the Long/Leuben Advanced Climbing book they say that both of them tie in with the rope most of the time. So now if each piece looks bomber I tie in with the rope. Since I'm still carrying the equallete it is not about weight it is about speed. You can often be clove hitched to two piece in the time it takes to unclip the equallette from your harness. On a ten pitch climb you'll save a lot of time.
Zander
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pud
climber
Sportbikeville
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Mar 10, 2010 - 10:13am PT
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This is a two point anchor prone to shockload that would easily cause complete anchor failure.
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Jim E
climber
away
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Mar 10, 2010 - 10:16am PT
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pud, Shock loading is a myth.
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pud
climber
Sportbikeville
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Mar 10, 2010 - 10:47am PT
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pud, Shock loading is a myth.
Right, sorry, I forgot where I was for a minute. Carry on.
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Mar 10, 2010 - 10:55am PT
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Keep it simple, keep it fast don't "always" do it a certain way. Use the terrain, minimalism is the key.
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ec
climber
ca
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Mar 10, 2010 - 11:41am PT
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I'm with Donini. And it takes a keen awareness of your surroundings and what will work best/most efficient for the given situation. A few quick wraps (a no-knot) of the rope around a stable and stout block (sans edges) is much faster/more efficient than futzing around finding gear placements...
 ec
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Jim E
climber
away
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Mar 10, 2010 - 11:51am PT
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Right, sorry, I forgot where I was for a minute. Carry on.
I don't really know what that means but... yeah... seriously, shock loading does not occur when pieces of an anchor blow. At least not in the way term/myth implies.
There is no multiplying of forces on the remaining pieces but rather a transfer of the remaining force to the remaining pieces. The initial impact on the anchor is reduced by the the rope and when/if a piece blows there is further reduction.
edit: yeah, i agree with donini
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crackfiend
climber
Springdale, Utah
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Mar 10, 2010 - 12:00pm PT
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Yeah agreed keep it simple.
Chiloes anchor is one I commonly see and it is clear people dont really understand the forces involved. First this anchor is NOT equalized. Your two good cams are getting 25% each and that little shitty nut is getting 50% of the load. I would probably feel much safer if the nut was not even in the anchor and you just used the good cams. As we have discussed before equalization is an elusive concept but load distribution is not. Sorry for the drift but it bugs me to see stuff people post on the internet without a complete understanding of what they are saying to others, especially new climbers.
Donnini nailed it when he said circumstanced dictate more than anything of how to build an anchor. I will usually have a cordo if I know I will be replacing rap anchors and probablly use this for my anchors. The rope doesnt work well at all if you are not swinging leads with your partner as you build yourself into it. Slings are very easy, versatile, and have more than the singular use of building anchors.
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EdBannister
Mountain climber
CA
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Mar 10, 2010 - 12:08pm PT
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Simpler is usually better.
If for no other reason than a simple system is easier to check.
Anticipation of the direction of pull, and not getting pulled off of something are more important that what you are tied in with, but, if there is any chance of lateral motion, use your rope! The stuff seems never to break, but webbing is very easy to cut under load...
as for "escape" there are options like don't put yourself in the chain in the first place...
and there is time as a factor, Two good bolts at the belay? tie a Bowline with two loops, clip em, 7 seconds.
Edit: Pate, not usually a good idea to show how to do it wrong, when the uninitiated might not realize that you are showing how to do it wrong.
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guyman
Trad climber
Moorpark, CA.
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Mar 10, 2010 - 12:21pm PT
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I am with Donini...... No hard n fast rules.
I usually tie in with the rope, and I don't have difficulty bringing up a second and using the rope to tie them in. It's not rocket science.
I always laugh when I see somebody spending 20 min with multiple cordaletts (sp) equalizing a bolted anchor. Stupid and lame IMHO.
And as far as "escaping the belay".
I have never needed to do that. Have you?
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tolman_paul
Trad climber
Anchorage, AK
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Mar 10, 2010 - 12:23pm PT
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I guess I'm old school, but I like to have as many options as possible, and build my anchor according the situation. I almost never belay off of the anchor, I belay off of my harness. If I'm in easy terrain and want to move quickly I'll likely just clove hitch the rope off of two solid pieces, quickly put my second on belay and get on with it. I'll even use a hip belay on easy terrain if I have a fast partner, because I've never been able to move rope fast enough through a belay device with a fast second, but I can move rope quickly with a hip belay.
No wonder people take so long to climb multipitch routes if they are doing a triplicate, quadlicate escape the belay anchor, every pitch. Having the skills to move quickly and efficiently are much safer then being benighted by bumbliness.
If you have alot of slack in the system and belay off the anchor, the second falling will put a much bigger load on the anchor then if you are keeping the belay taught, belay off your harness, and a fall is caught by you, not the anchor.
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