Help with vintage pitons???

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BooDawg

Social climber
Paradise Island
Mar 4, 2010 - 05:52am PT
Dolt's 2nd generation of horizontal pegs had a meatier head, but the "Dolt" was replaced by a single "D."
2nd generation Dolt piton.
2nd generation Dolt piton.
Credit: BooDawg
JEleazarian

Trad climber
Fresno CA
Mar 4, 2010 - 07:04am PT
I remember Dolt writing a letter to Summit about your ascent and those pins, Boo Dog. Unfortunately, his prices were beyond my budget, except for my Doltster, which I still have. I also remember one of his ads mentioning forging some horizontals out of titanium. Does anyone have any of those?

John
BooDawg

Social climber
Paradise Island
Mar 4, 2010 - 12:37pm PT
Sheesh, John; Good memory!! I'd forgotten about Dolt's letter AND the titanium DOLTPEGs. I found the letter on P. 34, of the June, '67 issue of "Summit." It references an ad he placed (P. 28, May, '67) where he mentions the gold plating of the pegs that we took up the Nose. I don't think my gold-plated momento will reappear...

One of my 2 Dolsters is the green one in the third pic of my first posting on this thread.

I remember handling fondly (or was it fondling handily?) the titanium pegs; I wonder who, if anyone, has them now... Don Lauria might know. Hennek gave his hardware away, tho he may have retained a few unique pieces. I'll ask McClinsky; he may have some... Other WestRidge lurkers may also have some clues...

Waitsfan, Thanks for starting this thread. Now that I've gotten into this history a bit, I'd also be interested in seeing pix of what you've got. I'm not sure if it'll be worth your while financially since there has been only mild interest in small portions of my stuff. But how much effort would it take to lay the stuff out, snap a few pix , and describe the items briefly?

Looking forward...
Ihateplastic

Trad climber
It ain't El Cap, Oregon
Mar 4, 2010 - 01:34pm PT
START OF THREAD DRIFT

I heard that all of Dolt's estate was hijacked by some low-lifer...

Ken, I don't think you are refering to me (Jeepers, Wally! I hope not!), but let me take a second or two to tell you what I know about the current status of the Dolt name. (Note: Some of this info was posted on another thread.)

The original DOLT logo is iconic. It was before my time but from a purely design aesthetic, the logo is timeless. I recognized this last year and started asking around as to who owned the rights. I went deep into the history of climbing and spoke with everyone from Robbins, Chouinard, Lauria, Calderwood, Caldwell and several others who knew Bill in an attempt to get a lead to the legal rights owner. Don Lauria was kind enough to supply a patchy link to the husband and wife who acquired the rights to the DOLT brand out of probate court back in the 1970s. These folks were involved (co-owners I believe) with West Ridge Sports. Another two weeks of research led me to these fine people in Nevada. Not only were they excited to see the logo used on shirts, they sent me original DOLT artwork, Bill's poetry, his patents, and other paraphernalia. (Yes, all of it will eventually be sent to the YCA museum when I finish drooling on it.) Hell, I have one item that is so effin unbelievable it gives me wood!

But I digress...

In return for licensing the DOLT brand these folks wanted me to make donation (based on sales) to their charitable school/church building work for the ultra-poor in South America. Since I already donate a percentage of everything I sell, this was a no-brainer.

So, the owners of everything Dolt acquired it legally and one presumes they did it because they knew Bill and wanted to continue his legacy (which they did for a while with an altered--and not as iconic--logo.)

Now, you may know more about these folks (who live in Nevada) than I do and you may have reason to feel they are "low-lifes" but I did want to let you know everything I know about the history of the brand post Bill's passing.

END OF THREAD DRIFT... back to more exciting stuff>>> OLD PINS!
Acer

Big Wall climber
AZ
Mar 4, 2010 - 01:52pm PT
Hey BooDawg,

Are you looking to sell?

What is the price?

Is anyone looking to make the purchace then make a donation to a muesum?

I know this has happened here on ST before.
BooDawg

Social climber
Paradise Island
Mar 4, 2010 - 03:47pm PT
Thanks so much, IHP, for filling me in on the history of Dolt as you understand it. I was not accusing anyone of being a low-lifer, merely repeating the rumor that came to me in hopes of stimulating discussion and revealing current information. My main interest here is to get the history of various aspects of climbing recorded, especially as it relates to the people, climbs, and, yes, hardware, that were so much a part of my life.

Bill Dolt was a generous and kind-hearted man, tho he had his eccentric ways, as we all do...

So, IHP, did you acquire any of Dolt's hardware in your transactions with the Nevada couple? Do they have any of the hardware? How about the titanium pegs? Where did they go? Doubtful that climbers active at that time bought them at his prices... Did Bill give them to other climbers to test as he did to Lauria and me with his first generation pegs? Did any of Dolt's hardware from his estate come to Ken (Chicken Skinner) and the Yosemite climbing museum.

Below is a pic of more of Dolt's hardware: 2 Cobra hooks are in the center row, left. These 2, with their narrow diameter "heads," I found not very useful on climbs. I had another one with a 2" diameter head that was VERY useful; I was grateful to have it on the FA of Sentinel's Gobi Wall. Right-center row is a DOLTJACK which was Dolt's answer to the RURP. VERY hard steel, not sure what kind but "stainless," like the Cobras, tho there are spots of rust on all 3 now. The ad in the May, '67 "Summit," referenced above, says there was a patent pending on the DOLTJACK. But it doesn't mention Cobras which I assume came later.

Top: 2 "bolt hooks" custom-made by Hennek to use in holes where bolts ...
Top: 2 "bolt hooks" custom-made by Hennek to use in holes where bolts were no longer in place as well as other placement possibilities; Center row: 2 Dolt Cobras & 1 DOLTJACK; Bottom row: Chouinard "Crackinups." They came in a variety of thicknesses. I th
Credit: BooDawg
Complete caption: Top: 2 "bolt hooks" custom-made by Hennek to use in holes where bolts were no longer in place as well as other placement possibilities; Center row: 2 Dolt Cobras & 1 DOLTJACK; Bottom row: Chouinard "Crackinups." They came in a variety of thicknesses. I think that Hennek, Roobinson, and Rowell used them with great success on the first clean ascent of HDs NW face.

Beside my interest in the history, I'm a pack-rat by nature which is why I still have this hardware, old Summits, AAJs, and autographed books by Gaston, Shipton, and others. So my purpose here is NOT to sell this stuff. Since I have little income now, a tax-deductible donation wouldn't help me at all. However, I do like the idea of some compensation for it AND having it end up in the Yosemite climbing museum where its story can be shared with any who are interested. When I corresponded with Chessler about the gear, I sent him a spreadsheet of quantities of each item. I could send it to others if they were interested in buying some, if not all, of it and donating it to the museum.

Mighty Hiker

climber
Vancouver, B.C.
Mar 4, 2010 - 04:13pm PT
Sounds like a very reasonable plan. If someone buys stuff from you for a fair price, and then turns around and donates it to the YCA museum project and receives a donation receipt, everyone's ahead. And if the YCA, and similar projects, don't need the gear, then sell it for the best price you can get.
Roger Breedlove

climber
Cleveland Heights, Ohio
Mar 4, 2010 - 04:28pm PT
Hi Ken,

I had a Dolt long pin that I used for cleaning with "Dolt" on the head. I notice that the one you show up-thread had a small hook at the end. Is this something that you added or was in on the orginal pin? Mine did not have a notch.

The Dolt pin, my Dolt holster, and my hamnmer are shown below.


BooDawg

Social climber
Paradise Island
Mar 4, 2010 - 05:14pm PT
Yes, Mighty Hiker, those are my current thoughts.

Roger, I think it was Hennek who added the hook later. BTW, the cleaner's "Dolster," pictured up-thread, had the DOLT logo stamped into the leather, and as I remember, Hennek made a few of those as well, using Dolt's stuff. Probably Dolt changed the piton blanks again, so you may have a 3rd generation model since mine just as a single D on it. However, that might have occurred after he died, so maybe yours is 2nd generation and mine is third... Hennek might be able to tell us... Dennis?
Ihateplastic

Trad climber
It ain't El Cap, Oregon
Mar 4, 2010 - 05:30pm PT
Ken,

Check out this thread:
http://www.supertopo.com/climbers-forum/727870/Dolt_Stories

One of the posters, Marty Karabin has perhaps the world's largest collection of Dolt gear including gold (not plated!) tie clips!

I already owned a few pins and bashies from Dolt but the materials I acquired from the couple in Nevada are all original poems, catalogs, patents,photos, etc.
Ihateplastic

Trad climber
It ain't El Cap, Oregon
Mar 4, 2010 - 05:33pm PT
Also, I told the folks about Ken and the YCA museum efforts and they sent him some stuff including the DOLT mailbox of which there is a picture on here somewhere.
Ihateplastic

Trad climber
It ain't El Cap, Oregon
Mar 4, 2010 - 06:18pm PT
Okay, Ken here are some other good links:

The DOLT mailbox:
http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.php?topic_id=1027812&msg=1027886#msg1027886

Check out Ken's link in the above thread...

Some of the goodies I received:
http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.php?topic_id=867035&msg=867178#msg867178


BooDawg

Social climber
Paradise Island
Mar 4, 2010 - 06:56pm PT
Thanks SO much, IHP, for the information and the links; they seem to answer most of my general questions, though those about the titanium pegs and a few other details remain.

Most interesting is that seeing the close-up pic of the Dolt peg with the DOLT logo on the opposite side of the peg from the "D." It made me look closer to my cleaner peg, and lo and behold, there is a faint DOLT logo there that I missed in my first inspection. But I'm posting a pic here which has the logo both on the leather holster made for the cleaner, I think by Hennek, AND the logo on the cleaning peg itself. Has anyone, besides Lauria & Hennek, even SEEN such a DOLT holster for a cleaning peg? (Look for it in my 3rd and 4th pix in my first posting on this thread.)

DOLT cleaning peg and its holster, showing the DOLT logo on each.
DOLT cleaning peg and its holster, showing the DOLT logo on each.
Credit: BooDawg
Roger Breedlove

climber
Cleveland Heights, Ohio
Mar 4, 2010 - 07:25pm PT
This is the first I have seen the holster. It is cool that Dolt came up with the design. Did Bill make it, or Dennis?

My cleaner pin, with a notch has the same logo that your shows but I don't think it has a 'D' on the other side (I no longer have it; it is at the YCM).
Fritz

Trad climber
Hagerman, ID
Mar 4, 2010 - 07:39pm PT
BooDawg: You got cool stuff! As a Dolt cleaning pin owner: let me chime in with more arcane information.

How many sizes did the cleaning piton come in? I have two. Per photos they are both marked on one side with Dolt logo, but one does not have the D on the other side.

Can't remember if Dolt Belay seat came up in the previous thread on Dolt. I probably bought it around 1972.

Dolt long pegs with brass little peg and belay seat logo.
Dolt long pegs with brass little peg and belay seat logo.
Credit: Fritz

side view
side view
Credit: Fritz
survival

Big Wall climber
A Token of My Extreme
Mar 4, 2010 - 07:51pm PT
Man, that exchange between Guido and Chessler was THE MONEY!
Ihateplastic

Trad climber
It ain't El Cap, Oregon
Mar 4, 2010 - 08:55pm PT
I'll check my old Dolt catalog on a few of these questions and scan/post tonight/tomorrow. Gotta run and teach kids the basics of calc!
tolman_paul

Trad climber
Anchorage, AK
Mar 4, 2010 - 09:00pm PT
Great thread!

It's amazing the pattern on those pins, they look almost as if someone etched a pattern on them, but I assume it's just scaling from forging.

That little brass pin is sweet!
Roger Breedlove

climber
Cleveland Heights, Ohio
Mar 4, 2010 - 09:03pm PT
Michael Chessler has a reputation for being prickly, but mutual friends think highly of him. Anyway prickly is not a crime around here.

Welcome to SuperTopo Michael. I hope you stick around.

Best regards, Roger
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Mar 4, 2010 - 10:31pm PT
ken has totally hooked the Stoney point thread up with some good pic's. Boche has helped us out by way of identifying a route with F.A information. ken made my day!

here is the beginning:
http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.php?topic_id=971616&tn=0&mr=0

Ken Boche's post:
http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.php?topic_id=971616&msg=1084105#msg1084105

enjoy!


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