Sobriety (off topic or not)?

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happiegrrrl

Trad climber
New York, NY
Feb 13, 2010 - 04:56pm PT
Brandon - AA can be a tough nut for some people, and for some it just doesn't do it. Some have talked about another program called Rational Recovery; I admit I know nothing about that one though.

Some have done a stint in rehab, and through their own efforts afterward, stayed clean.

Some have had their doctors prescribe...I forget the name of that drug. It makes you feel like CA-RAP if you have a drink. I have never used it but know someone who did.... He says "yep, you feel like sh#t." Unfortunately for him, not shitty enough. He drank while on it. Antibuse! That's the drug.



"so,
how do you sober folk sidestep the poke in the ribs?"



Do you mean, avoid feeling the pain, embarrassment, discomfort, humiliation and all those other icky things that happen in daily living?

If yes.... I sidestep them through other processes that aren't good for me - oversleeping and eating sugary foods, mostly. Or I lash out in anger. That isn't good either for me, since I feel crappy afterward.

Some people sidestep with other things. Just cause one doesn't drink doesn't mean they don't still do some pretty sketchy stuff. I've known sober people who were still stealing, sex addicts, raging angry mofo's....

But - the better way is to step back front and center, instead of side-stepping. Feel the pain, humiliation, anger, upset, whatever. Adter all, for me that goes along with getting all the life stuff I have gotten from being sober.

Actually....I am a few days away from getting to experience something potentially really big for me. Well, a step in that direction, anyway. Something that, if I wondered what was one of the things I thought I would never get in life, this would be the one at the top of that list. The fears that this is going to be a poke in the side so painful I want to shrivel up and die are great. I am actually sort of scared.

But I am using those tools I learned through AA, and each time I catch myself going "down a bad line" in my mind, I stop, and go over the facts that I do know. And I tell myself to trust. And be present for this.

I may get an awful poke in the side. But I also may get something else; something much nicer. Without risking the pain, that wouldn't be possible.
willie!!!!!

Ice climber
honolulu, hawaii
Feb 13, 2010 - 07:57pm PT
Hankster - You've got a couple years on me, and I can see we are different in many ways, but I'm right there with ya on the drink.

Alcohol has been a HUGE player in my life. I've never been a down-and-out gutter drunk. Quite the opposite. I've accomplished a lot and made a name for myself in my career and hobbies. Which really amazes me because I am fully alcohol's bitch. I've hit rock bottom twice and done 3 years sober once and 2 years sober the other. Right now I'm fighting (or not) for my life again.

The hardest part for me is that my entire limited social life revolves around getting shitty. All my friends are fellow barfly lushes. It's what we do. It's fun a lot of the time! I'm a big part of an amazing music scene. But the youthfullness I always relied on to get me to the hill the next morning is fading.

The funny thing is that during those five years of sobriety, I did 3 times as much awesome sh#t than during my drunk life.

I'm gonna quit again soon. I have to. I'm looking forward to the awesome hallucinations on night 2-5 and also dropping right back to my fighting weight in 3 weeks.

Congrats on a month. That's a hell of a long ways, as you know.

Put the energy you're killing into something rad.

Neil said we're all like setting suns. Setting suns are awesome. Just shortlived. It's all been written about and studied forever. But here we are, eh? Pretty real.


I'll end this with the Slobberbone on my mind today. I hiked 3 times at the pass. Good day. Still gotta quit again soon. Time for more manic sober antics.



Get Gone Again - Slobberbone


I'm so sick of writing songs about screwin up
No matter how much I fall down, it seems it's never enough
No matter how much good luck throws itself my way
I find some way to ruin it and out again the next day

Road rash and run down
Wrinkled from the rain
The song in my heart makes just one sound
And I sing along just the same
I wonder how long I'll hang around before I go insane
Before I break down
And get gone again

Put myself on trial again for crimes I could not see
My naked aggression was picked up on a charge of indecentcy
And I remember how I felt when first it exposed itself to me
And I pray for forgiveness and a sympathetic jury

Road rash and run down
Wrinkled from the rain
the song in my heart makes just one sound
And I sing along just the same
I wonder how long I'll hang around before I go insane
Before I break down
And get gone again

And it makes no difference what you thought you came here for
Any plans that you might've had
Are swept right out the door
And it makes no difference how hard you think you've tried
When you'll find out in the end its just...
It's just a lie

There's been girls that loved me, I cheated on them
With a woman named whiskey and gin, her best friend
But their affections flow like liquid to a thousand other men
Who will trade lovin for liquor, salvation for sin

Road rash and run down
Wrinkled from the rain
The song in my heart makes just one sound
And I sing along just the same
I wonder how long I'll hang around before I go insane
Before I break down,
And get gone again
And get gone again......
dipper

climber
Feb 13, 2010 - 08:57pm PT
This thread is likely the most significant thread on ST in years.

In no way denigrating all the brilliant posts by Jello, Ed H. (Frank S. thread a true gem), Doug R., Guido, Karl and more.

Watching all the drunk posting (mine included) that has gone on here for years, reading of those that lost the battles with the bottle, the depression and all manner of other hurdles, I vote this thread stay on the front page non-stop.

So many people here have lived on adrenaline for so long as climbers or skiers or base jumpers, living without that euphoric jolt can be damn hard.

Hank, I wish you all the best. Thanks for asking for help. You have all that i can give.

The same to all the rest soldiering on, whether you know you are soldiering or not.

Cinclus mexicanus - That bird that swims
willie!!!!!

Ice climber
honolulu, hawaii
Feb 13, 2010 - 09:13pm PT
And to top it off (sorry), the other 90% of the world wishes they had our problems, right?!? WTF.

Anyways, keep up the good work, man. I'll be joining you soon.
bvb

Social climber
flagstaff arizona
Feb 13, 2010 - 09:22pm PT
Second Chances

I can’t let it go, the picture I keep of myself
in ruin, living alone, some wretched town
where friendship is based on just being around.
And I drink there a lot, stare at the walls until
the buzzing of flies becomes the silence I drown in.
Outside, children bad-mouth my life with songs
their parents told them to sing. One showers
my roof with stones knowing I’m afraid
to step out and tell him to stop. Another yells,
“You can’t get a woman, old man. You don’t get a thing.”

My wife, a beautiful woman, is fixing lunch.
She doesn’t know I dream these things. She thinks
I’m fine. People respect me. Oh, she knows, all right,
I’ve seen grim times. But these days my poems
appear everywhere. Fan mail comes. I fly east
on a profitable reading tour. Once in a while
a young girl offers herself. My wife knows that, too.
And she knows my happiness with her is far more
than I ever expected. Three years ago, I wouldn’t
have given a dime for my chances at life.

What she doesn’t know is now and then
a vagabond knocks on the door. I go answer
and he says, “Come back, baby. You’ll find
a million poems deep in your destitute soul.”
And I say, “Go away. Don’t ever come back.”
But I watch him walk, always downhill toward
the school yard where children are playing “ghost,”
a game where, according to the rules, you take
another child’s name in your mind but pretend
you’re still you while others guess your new name.


willie!!!!!

Ice climber
honolulu, hawaii
Feb 13, 2010 - 09:54pm PT
BVB - you will be one of my mental inspirations this time around. Thanks.
pocoloco1

Social climber
The Chihuahua Desert
Feb 13, 2010 - 09:59pm PT
bvb, great stuff. your pen?
bvb

Social climber
flagstaff arizona
Feb 13, 2010 - 11:00pm PT
i wish. that's richard hugo.
em kn0t

Trad climber
isle of wyde
Feb 14, 2010 - 12:15am PT
hank,

keep on, one day at time

regarding the higher power / belief conundrum, a good book:
"One Breath at a Time - Buddhism and the Twelve Steps" by Kevin Griffin

namaste, and may the higher power be with you, whatever that may be

Floridaputz

Trad climber
Oakland Park Florida
Feb 14, 2010 - 07:18am PT
regret will be replaced with joy !
Hardman Knott

Gym climber
Muir Woods National Monument, Mill Valley, Ca
Feb 14, 2010 - 09:28am PT
What's the worst part about knott drinking?




When you wake up in the morning, that's as good as yer gonna feel all day...

And there's something to be said for that!
happiegrrrl

Trad climber
New York, NY
Feb 14, 2010 - 09:31am PT
That's not true.... Especially if you have a cold and are all stuffed up from laying down all night. Or wake up from a nightmare. Or something.


But I suppose - if going up from awful is to be seen as a positive, then....I stick with Door Number One, Bob.

Hardman Knott

Gym climber
Muir Woods National Monument, Mill Valley, Ca
Feb 14, 2010 - 09:37am PT
Hmmm. I take breaks from alcohol every week - from a day or two to a few days.
I ALWAYS feel better on the mornings when I have knott had any booze the day before,
whether a single beer or several shots of high-grade tequila. When I take breaks spanning
a month or more, I consistently feel much better every morning - day after day after day...
LEB

climber
PA
Feb 14, 2010 - 09:38am PT
Can anyone tell me whether you found the drug Campral to be effective in alcohol abstinence. I rely a great deal on patient feed back. Also has anyone used Suboxone who might provide some feedback? I DO know the drugs I RX for smoking cessation can be hugely effective (Chantix, Wellbutrin) but I know less about how effective is Campral and Subuxone. Feedback is very important.

Also, Happi - your posts on this threat are so powerful. They blow me away. They are among the best I have read anywhere on ST. Fantastic insights. Talented writer.
eKat

Trad climber
BITD2
Feb 14, 2010 - 09:44am PT
Can anyone tell me whether you found the drug Campral to be effective in alcohol abstinence. I rely a great deal on patient feed back. Also has anyone used Suboxone who might provide some feedback? I DO know the drugs I RX for smoking cessation can be hugely effective (Chantix, Wellbutrin) but I know less about how effective is Campral and Subuxone. Feedback is very important.

Lois. . . maybe you should ask YOUR PATIENTS?

Kath
TwistedCrank

climber
Ideeho-dee-do-dah-day boom-chicka-boom-chicka-boom
Feb 14, 2010 - 10:03am PT
LEB is back and once again an important and meaningful thread takes a nose dive.
LEB

climber
PA
Feb 14, 2010 - 10:06am PT
Well, Kath, that is the problem with alcohol and narcotic therapy. With smoking, the patients come back and tell you about the drugs you prescribed and whether or not they worked. With alcohol and narcotics, the patients often come to you in a very desperate state and they don't always return. You don't know, as readily, whether the drugs you prescribed or the places you referred them to helped them or whether it was just another failure for them and they are still feeling desperate.

You try to encourage them to come back even if they failed and are still feeling miserable but they do so less frequently than you would like. I am very big on sending people to AA which is why Happi's remarks are so helpful to me. I try hard to foster a sense of there is no shame to failing. We will just try something else. You can never fail too many times. I also find a lot of people are literally trapped in lifestyles which exacerbate their addictions and make it so much harder to break free.
Norwegian

Trad climber
Placerville, California
Feb 14, 2010 - 10:35am PT
it used to be a social tool for me. it accompanied and accented my playfull strides.

as a parent, it has now become vitality in a can.

all week long i grind for a paycheck.

evenings i spin barbies in dance. i usually play ken.

weekends i seal the leaks in the homestead and play more dolls and watch dance performances etc.

but i do not get out amongst them mountains. hence i pour some of them 'mountains' into my gob and feel happier for it.

for now, beer is vitality in a can.

i like the flavor too. and my smile widens. and my eyes brighten. temporarily at least.
Hardman Knott

Gym climber
Muir Woods National Monument, Mill Valley, Ca
Feb 14, 2010 - 10:46am PT
Last night a gorgeous woman came up and introduced herself to me. Unfortunately, I was too sloshed to speak coherently.

So "vitality in a can" - it was most certainly KNOTT.

Reminded me of that saying that goes something like:

It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool

-than to open your mouth and remove all doubt...
quartziteflight

climber
Who knows?
Feb 14, 2010 - 10:56am PT


Hang in there Hankster!


And your right not drinkn is boring as hog piss!





I do find it interesting that we posion our bodies in the name of having a good time..
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